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(Kotaku)   Twitch Users: "Hey, Twitch...how about doing something about the incessant hate raids?" Twitch: ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Twitch Users: "Fine...let's see if a day without any streamers makes you pay attention, then"   (kotaku.com) divider line
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2644 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 30 Aug 2021 at 8:45 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-08-30 8:15:15 PM  
Good luck with THAT.
 
2021-08-30 8:49:44 PM  
Yeah like any social media sight will ever ban assholes.  This could have been nipped in the butt decades ago if social media would have allowed people to mock DMer's of dick pics and other gross activity.  But, no they protected them just like they protect Nazis.
 
2021-08-30 9:00:17 PM  

Moroning: Yeah like any social media sight will ever ban assholes.  This could have been nipped in the butt decades ago if social media would have allowed people to mock DMer's of dick pics and other gross activity.  But, no they protected them just like they protect Nazis.


Bud*
 
2021-08-30 9:00:46 PM  

Cafe Threads: Good luck with THAT.


They'll succeed.

OnlyFans faced the same hurdle and they lost.
 
2021-08-30 9:03:20 PM  
this headline could be written in moonman language and not be less non-sensical to me.
 
2021-08-30 9:03:59 PM  
They named the feature "raid" and people are using it to invade streams with bad intent. Who could have seen that coming?
 
2021-08-30 9:11:35 PM  
In particular, hate raids-in which bad-faith viewers use the platform's "raid" feature to flood a channel en masse with slurs and vile language-are not only possible

I see one problem immediately.
 
2021-08-30 9:12:39 PM  

morg: They named the feature "raid" and people are using it to invade streams with bad intent. Who could have seen that coming?


Hate raids have always been an issue on Twitch, the problem now is people are using bots(by the thousands) to spam chats.  They target marginalized streamers and worst of all there are Twitch users who openly brag about doing it and never face punishment.  This never should have been an issue because Twitch has known for years about sites selling bots for subscriber boosts but pretended not to notice.  Now it's been weaponized and all we get is mealymouthed, boiler plate press releases.
 
2021-08-30 9:14:07 PM  
If enough people participate, it may get Twitch to take things more seriously...but whether streamers go dark one day or ten days, it won't come close to solving the problem completely.  There are always going to be racist, sexist, transphobic, homophobic assholes who will find a way to bypass every measure Twitch puts into place.  After all, one of the first things people do whenever any organization sets rules or uses some kind of measure to prevent wrongdoing is figure out how to get around those rules and break any measures used against them without facing consequences, and even if they're caught and banned, they just come back through other means.

It'll be nothing more than a big Band-Aid on a wound that will never stop festering.  I'm not saying they shouldn't do anything to protest the disgusting practices happening on Twitch, but they need to keep their expectations for tangible results pretty low.
 
2021-08-30 9:17:46 PM  

morg: They named the feature "raid" and people are using it to invade streams with bad intent. Who could have seen that coming?


They didn't name raids. Like most features Twitch had introduced, raids were a community creation long before Twitch implemented functionality.
 
2021-08-30 9:18:51 PM  

Moroning: Yeah like any social media sight will ever ban assholes.  This could have been nipped in the butt decades ago if social media would have allowed people to mock DMer's of dick pics and other gross activity.  But, no they protected them just like they protect Nazis.


The only way to effectively ban assholes is by requiring verified accounts and then having humans police content.  As much money as they're raking in now by selling your data and showing you ads, it would never be enough to cover the loss of customers and the increased expense of monitoring.  They'd go broke.

And that is before considering that as long as the trolls and propaganda accounts don't bring legal trouble, they bring in a lot of money.  Filter them out and you go broke twice over before supper.
 
2021-08-30 9:28:10 PM  
Comment boards suck, especially when they're poorly moderated.

All they've done is empower idiots and spammers.

/Current website excluded, mostly.
 
2021-08-30 9:36:30 PM  
Apparently calling a Dario out on their tactics is frowned up in this establishment
 
2021-08-30 9:41:03 PM  
Apparently, a big problem is that the streamers are responsible for their chats even when they aren't online.  So you have people going into offline streamers' channels and flooding it and then reporting it and getting the streamer banned.
 
2021-08-30 9:48:12 PM  

Moroning: This could have been nipped in the butt


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-08-30 9:55:57 PM  

Unsung_Hero: Moroning: Yeah like any social media sight will ever ban assholes.  This could have been nipped in the butt decades ago if social media would have allowed people to mock DMer's of dick pics and other gross activity.  But, no they protected them just like they protect Nazis.

The only way to effectively ban assholes is by requiring verified accounts and then having humans police content.  As much money as they're raking in now by selling your data and showing you ads, it would never be enough to cover the loss of customers and the increased expense of monitoring.  They'd go broke.

And that is before considering that as long as the trolls and propaganda accounts don't bring legal trouble, they bring in a lot of money.  Filter them out and you go broke twice over before supper.


That's why Facebook lets the Russian troll farms and just general assholes stay.  It's all about showing continual growth in "unique users".
 
2021-08-30 9:57:46 PM  

jake_lex: It's all about showing continual growth in "unique users".


It's all about money above all, including ethics and social responsibility.
 
2021-08-30 10:02:08 PM  
James Stephanie Sterling covered this story this morning (NSFW language warning, because this is James Stephanie F*cking Sterling Son we're talking about here):

Hate Raids (The Jimquisition)
Youtube Hh1JlHvl-do
 
2021-08-30 10:04:09 PM  

LrdPhoenix: Apparently, a big problem is that the streamers are responsible for their chats even when they aren't online.  So you have people going into offline streamers' channels and flooding it and then reporting it and getting the streamer banned.


This is true on all platforms.
 
2021-08-30 10:08:58 PM  
I wonder if YouTube is behind this.  You know, since they are ramping up their own streaming service.
 
2021-08-30 10:19:06 PM  

Moroning: Yeah like any social media sight will ever ban assholes.  This could have been nipped in the butt decades ago if social media would have allowed people to mock DMer's of dick pics and other gross activity.  But, no they protected them just like they protect Nazis.


I have said before that if being smart was a requirement for having a social media account, just about every platform would be out of business.
 
2021-08-30 10:20:16 PM  

Kitty2.0: Cafe Threads: Good luck with THAT.

They'll succeed.

OnlyFans faced the same hurdle and they lost.


OnlyFans faced a third party who wanted their money but not their associations.  There is currently no direct proof that OnlyFans didn't want to maintain the status quo.

Twitch..can't be bothered.  It's also REALLY apparent who knows the industry and who...casually enjoys watching streams, or streaming to 8 friends and thinks they know.
 
2021-08-30 10:21:59 PM  

desertgeek: Moroning: Yeah like any social media sight will ever ban assholes.  This could have been nipped in the butt decades ago if social media would have allowed people to mock DMer's of dick pics and other gross activity.  But, no they protected them just like they protect Nazis.

I have said before that if being smart was a requirement for having a social media account, just about every platform would be out of business.


Or never started.  Cause it seems like some of the dumbest people on the planet have started a bunch of them.
 
2021-08-30 10:27:00 PM  
I don't know why someone just would get off on trolling.

People suck.
 
2021-08-30 10:42:17 PM  

Unsung_Hero: Moroning: Yeah like any social media sight will ever ban assholes.  This could have been nipped in the butt decades ago if social media would have allowed people to mock DMer's of dick pics and other gross activity.  But, no they protected them just like they protect Nazis.

The only way to effectively ban assholes is by requiring verified accounts and then having humans police content.  As much money as they're raking in now by selling your data and showing you ads, it would never be enough to cover the loss of customers and the increased expense of monitoring.  They'd go broke.

And that is before considering that as long as the trolls and propaganda accounts don't bring legal trouble, they bring in a lot of money.  Filter them out and you go broke twice over before supper.


I have said for a while now that this is exactly why Facebook will do nothing about right wing harassment and misinformation on their platform.

The left wing outrage generates eyeballs and the right wing self congratulation does the same. Their hate creates "sticky" content that FB will not give up.
 
2021-08-30 10:48:46 PM  

AgtSmithReloaded: If enough people participate, it may get Twitch to take things more seriously...but whether streamers go dark one day or ten days, it won't come close to solving the problem completely.  There are always going to be racist, sexist, transphobic, homophobic assholes who will find a way to bypass every measure Twitch puts into place.  After all, one of the first things people do whenever any organization sets rules or uses some kind of measure to prevent wrongdoing is figure out how to get around those rules and break any measures used against them without facing consequences, and even if they're caught and banned, they just come back through other means.

It'll be nothing more than a big Band-Aid on a wound that will never stop festering.  I'm not saying they shouldn't do anything to protest the disgusting practices happening on Twitch, but they need to keep their expectations for tangible results pretty low.


The problem is the assholes won't boycott it and see that day as an improvement.

People should raid the big streamers with abuse and I'm guessing someone at twitch will magically find a solution.
 
2021-08-30 10:52:27 PM  

bigbadideasinaction: AgtSmithReloaded: If enough people participate, it may get Twitch to take things more seriously...but whether streamers go dark one day or ten days, it won't come close to solving the problem completely.  There are always going to be racist, sexist, transphobic, homophobic assholes who will find a way to bypass every measure Twitch puts into place.  After all, one of the first things people do whenever any organization sets rules or uses some kind of measure to prevent wrongdoing is figure out how to get around those rules and break any measures used against them without facing consequences, and even if they're caught and banned, they just come back through other means.

It'll be nothing more than a big Band-Aid on a wound that will never stop festering.  I'm not saying they shouldn't do anything to protest the disgusting practices happening on Twitch, but they need to keep their expectations for tangible results pretty low.

The problem is the assholes won't boycott it and see that day as an improvement.

People should raid the big streamers with abuse and I'm guessing someone at twitch will magically find a solution.


I don't think Twitch has that kind of relationship with big streamers.  I've never actually seen any positive feedback from any size streamer about Twitch.  Pretty sure if you could get the money and start a competitor you could steal a big chunk of their streamers.
 
2021-08-30 10:55:08 PM  

Moroning: bigbadideasinaction: AgtSmithReloaded: If enough people participate, it may get Twitch to take things more seriously...but whether streamers go dark one day or ten days, it won't come close to solving the problem completely.  There are always going to be racist, sexist, transphobic, homophobic assholes who will find a way to bypass every measure Twitch puts into place.  After all, one of the first things people do whenever any organization sets rules or uses some kind of measure to prevent wrongdoing is figure out how to get around those rules and break any measures used against them without facing consequences, and even if they're caught and banned, they just come back through other means.

It'll be nothing more than a big Band-Aid on a wound that will never stop festering.  I'm not saying they shouldn't do anything to protest the disgusting practices happening on Twitch, but they need to keep their expectations for tangible results pretty low.

The problem is the assholes won't boycott it and see that day as an improvement.

People should raid the big streamers with abuse and I'm guessing someone at twitch will magically find a solution.

I don't think Twitch has that kind of relationship with big streamers.  I've never actually seen any positive feedback from any size streamer about Twitch.  Pretty sure if you could get the money and start a competitor you could steal a big chunk of their streamers.


Twitch signs their big names to contracts to specifically entice them to stay exclusively on their site; that's neither new nor secret.

Granted, said streamers have an army of paid mods and gate chat access, so that's going to keep the worst of it from actually hurting the feelings of the big names.
 
2021-08-30 10:56:08 PM  

DeathByGeekSquad: Kitty2.0: Cafe Threads: Good luck with THAT.

They'll succeed.

OnlyFans faced the same hurdle and they lost.

OnlyFans faced a third party who wanted their money but not their associations.  There is currently no direct proof that OnlyFans didn't want to maintain the status quo.

Twitch..can't be bothered.  It's also REALLY apparent who knows the industry and who...casually enjoys watching streams, or streaming to 8 friends and thinks they know.


I'm a cam model, so unless you are also a cam model or content creator do shut up.
 
2021-08-30 11:15:51 PM  

Kitty2.0: DeathByGeekSquad: Kitty2.0: Cafe Threads: Good luck with THAT.

They'll succeed.

OnlyFans faced the same hurdle and they lost.

OnlyFans faced a third party who wanted their money but not their associations.  There is currently no direct proof that OnlyFans didn't want to maintain the status quo.

Twitch..can't be bothered.  It's also REALLY apparent who knows the industry and who...casually enjoys watching streams, or streaming to 8 friends and thinks they know.

I'm a cam model, so unless you are also a cam model or content creator do shut up.


I am neither a model, nor creator, but I am active creator industry, and work closely with Twitch, YouTube, Facebook, OF models and creators of all backgrounds.  Ergo, I got to see the whiplash, and lack of clarifications, plus the assumptions about the OF statements, additionally I am well versed in the current community pains surrounding the hate raids, and the Twitch ecosystem in general.

What is your extensive experience with the communications OnlyFans had with their financial institutions?
 
2021-08-30 11:20:18 PM  
Gotta admit...Twitch is pretty selective about what parts of their own TOS they'll enforce, ie:

There was one well-established Twitch Streamer who, aside from making Twitch plenty of money, purposely flashed her hoo-ha to her thousands of viewers, and only caught a three-day ban for that. There are other, smaller streamers (read: those who don't make them enough money), who may inadvertently show a bit of nip, or just a tad too much ass crack (such as in body-painting streams), and *BOOM* they're gone like yesterday's news. One body painter caught a ban (that she successfully fought, and had overturned after about a month) because she had the audacity to show her cleavage on her stream (I believe it was either Forkgirl, or Nagisake.)

In other words...if you're helping Twitch make money, hand over fist, they're really not gonna do anything to you.
 
2021-08-30 11:27:10 PM  
You know you people pressing funny on my posts will not be laughing when I'm proved right!
 
2021-08-30 11:29:40 PM  

Kitty2.0: DeathByGeekSquad: Kitty2.0: Cafe Threads: Good luck with THAT.

They'll succeed.

OnlyFans faced the same hurdle and they lost.

OnlyFans faced a third party who wanted their money but not their associations.  There is currently no direct proof that OnlyFans didn't want to maintain the status quo.

Twitch..can't be bothered.  It's also REALLY apparent who knows the industry and who...casually enjoys watching streams, or streaming to 8 friends and thinks they know.

I'm a cam model, so unless you are also a cam model or content creator do shut up.


I'm a cam hand model. Fairly niche market, but it's there...
 
2021-08-30 11:36:38 PM  

WhippingBoi: Kitty2.0: DeathByGeekSquad: Kitty2.0: Cafe Threads: Good luck with THAT.

They'll succeed.

OnlyFans faced the same hurdle and they lost.

OnlyFans faced a third party who wanted their money but not their associations.  There is currently no direct proof that OnlyFans didn't want to maintain the status quo.

Twitch..can't be bothered.  It's also REALLY apparent who knows the industry and who...casually enjoys watching streams, or streaming to 8 friends and thinks they know.

I'm a cam model, so unless you are also a cam model or content creator do shut up.

I'm a cam hand model. Fairly niche market, but it's there...


Mr. Duchovny?
 
2021-08-30 11:48:31 PM  

Moroning: You know you people pressing funny on my posts will not be laughing when I'm proved right!


If Elon wanted to troll Bezos he could golden parachute the Top 250 on Twitch, causing an arms race in viewership stabilization, and redistributing platform clout.  It would easily take over a billion, but it would be an interesting experiment.  Folks would lose following jumping to whichever platform, that's a given, but if you provide them with their potential earnings for 2-5 years of work as a lump sum, many would reduce their pace and diversify their brand.

For those keeping track, by just targeting the Top 250, not even the Top 500 or the noteworthy 'Top 5000', you'd be targeting 55-60% of Twitch's total viewership.
 
2021-08-30 11:57:42 PM  

Moroning: Pretty sure if you could get the money and start a competitor you could steal a big chunk of their streamers.


Microsoft tried that with Mixer. They paid Ninja, Shroud, and a few others some decent money to come over.

It failed.

Which is too bad. IMO, it had better navigation, higher quality streams, and was an all-around better experience. I kinda wish they'd kept dumping money into it for a few years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixer_(​s​ervice)
 
2021-08-31 12:04:13 AM  
The bane of all SM is the weaponization of bots, and the failure of the SM companies to do anything about it, because they need the bots to inflate their revenue streams

most of the "hate raids" can be nerfed and stopped by simple auto moderation settings and due diligence. But it is hard for a moderator to know who are the bots and who are real people.

CSB: Was on a stream and a moderator gave a bot account a gift subscription because they followed them.  The "Bot" was registered for only 2 days and had followed and friended over 20,000 users
 
2021-08-31 12:08:15 AM  

Another one of them varmits: Moroning: Pretty sure if you could get the money and start a competitor you could steal a big chunk of their streamers.

Microsoft tried that with Mixer. They paid Ninja, Shroud, and a few others some decent money to come over.

It failed.

Which is too bad. IMO, it had better navigation, higher quality streams, and was an all-around better experience. I kinda wish they'd kept dumping money into it for a few years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixer_(s​ervice)


They tried others before them - their biggest issue was that they failed to grab enough, and those that they grabbed were already plateaued.  How often do you hear about Renee these days?  They were one of the first wave to be provided deals.

The real play for MS was the technology behind Mixer, which they've since parlayed into their cloud services.
 
2021-08-31 12:18:38 AM  

Another one of them varmits: Moroning: Pretty sure if you could get the money and start a competitor you could steal a big chunk of their streamers.

Microsoft tried that with Mixer. They paid Ninja, Shroud, and a few others some decent money to come over.

It failed.

Which is too bad. IMO, it had better navigation, higher quality streams, and was an all-around better experience. I kinda wish they'd kept dumping money into it for a few years.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mixer_(s​ervice)


Microsoft does think people are needed.  Create a site makes users happy, you can take over
 
2021-08-31 2:21:59 AM  
Hate raid?  So Onyxia?  Moar dots?
Or Mewtwo, never shiny?
 
2021-08-31 2:59:42 AM  
I don't frequent twitch. What are hate raids?
 
2021-08-31 3:01:23 AM  

Snapper Carr: In particular, hate raids-in which bad-faith viewers use the platform's "raid" feature to flood a channel en masse with slurs and vile language-are not only possible

I see one problem immediately.


Ah. Ok, that explains things.
 
2021-08-31 6:24:42 AM  

Moroning: This could have been nipped in the butt


Fark is not your personal erotica site...
 
2021-08-31 7:00:13 AM  
People say this but... what do they actually WANT twitch to do?  We had this conversation with a streamer and he said anything he could think of would make things annoying as all hell for everyone else.

Not to mention, there's already a very simple feature... follower-only mode.  If somehow they become smart enough to have the bots follow, go into subscriber only mode temporarily.  The bots are unable to do anything and then you can just turn it back off again.
 
2021-08-31 7:04:36 AM  

jake3988: People say this but... what do they actually WANT twitch to do?  We had this conversation with a streamer and he said anything he could think of would make things annoying as all hell for everyone else.

Not to mention, there's already a very simple feature... follower-only mode.  If somehow they become smart enough to have the bots follow, go into subscriber only mode temporarily.  The bots are unable to do anything and then you can just turn it back off again.


Oh, I forgot, and if the streamer is so small they don't have subscriptions... just go into emote-only mode.

/And if they're spamming certain hateful words, it's pretty darn easy to add those words to your own chatbot and have it autoban anyone that says those things.
//Just regular ol' spammy bots used to be an annoying as hell thing about a year ago, they'd just random enter people's chats and spam like crazy... every single streamer would just flip on follower-only mode or emote-only mode, ban all the bots, and then go back to normal as if nothing happened.  It took 30 seconds, tops.  Most streamers only had the problem once or twice and then, with everything banned, they never returned.
 
2021-08-31 7:16:05 AM  
Oh, and thirdly, twitch has the ability for you to just ban raids (or only allow approved raids).  Which is annoying I'm sure since that's how a small streamer gains exposure... but generally people don't just raid willy nilly unless there's a very mutual friendship there.  If it's an unknown person, you generally want to check it out and make sure THEY arent racist/nazi assholes (Because I've known that to happen).  And then they ask if it's ok if they raid.

So the hatefulness is a two-way street.

And there's already ways to protect from both.
 
2021-08-31 7:48:15 AM  
Correct me if I'm wrong, but twitch is free, right? And one can make money off of it, right? But twitch takes a cut, right? And just to be clear, it's free to use and to make money, right?

And they are complaining about other users disrupting their free money venture?

Ok then, complaining about a free site that can possibly pay you is like complaining to Drew about changing the site layout. You'll get over it and you'll shut up and love it or you'd make your own twitch site and build it up to millions of daily viewers. What's that? You can't?

I don't know why people feel entitled enough to tell a free site what to do.
 
2021-08-31 7:53:18 AM  

jake3988: what do they actually WANT twitch to do?


Seems to me a lot of the issues would be resolved by better bot prevention. It appears that the problem with the "raids" are because someone uses an army of bots and a few real deal trolls hide among the bots and it comes down to harassment.

But as someone said, the bots still make them money, so there's no incentive to do anything about it.

In the end, it's the advertisers who command the wallet, and therefore command the policies. If advertisers only paid out for activity from verified accounts, then they would do something about it.

Having a verified account and no bots to hide behind would also cut back on the trolls harassing people. It won't stop them, but at that point it seems like it would become much more manageable. Reports could be taken serious, bans issued, and while things won't be a utopia, it won't be a warzone of stupidity either.
 
2021-08-31 7:56:36 AM  

Moroning: Yeah like any social media sight will ever ban assholes.  This could have been nipped in the butt

Fark user imageView Full Size

 
2021-08-31 7:57:07 AM  
One day boycotts accomplish nothing.
 
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