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(The Week)   Even the Taliban are ashamed at the botched American withdrawal   (theweek.com) divider line
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3533 clicks; posted to Politics » and Main » on 18 Aug 2021 at 12:29 PM (14 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-08-18 8:47:03 AM  
Really?

Someone should also get the Kurds' opinion. Remember them?

We had staunch, (somewhat) like-minded allies in Iraq. Their women fought along side their men. They had a vision for their future that didn't involve blowing up statues and museums and reverting to the 10th century. They at least understood the concept of democracy and that it was better than a theocracy. They had dreams of building a nation for their people, instead of unending intertribal conflict. We burned them for no gain.

There hasn't been anything like that in Afghanistan. We were always supporting the enemy of our enemy. This was evident with Reagan's public oral servicing of the Mujahideen when he compared them to our founding fathers' morals and ethics. Anyone with a couple brain cells to rub together and an even passing acquaintance with US history knew that wasn't a good thing at all. Especially when applied to the cultural and physical landscape of Afghanistan.

At least Reagan didn't fellate the Russians. I never, ever thought I'd have to tick that as a plus in favor of the senile, evil, petty, racist, homophobic, sexist, classist, semi-literate, inept, Nixonian, colonizing, piece of shiat actor. But, here we are. Thanks, Cheetohlini.
 
2021-08-18 9:13:32 AM  
Everybody's all breathlessly telling us how everyone in Afghanistan feels without having set foot in the country.  They must be, like, total geniuses or something.
 
2021-08-18 10:32:40 AM  
I don't think that's what was botched.
Something something bootstraps.
 
2021-08-18 11:03:28 AM  

yohohogreengiant: Someone should also get the Kurds' opinion. Remember them?


But that involved Great and Unmatched Wisdom.
 
2021-08-18 11:35:29 AM  
I don't think it was botched either. I think the Afghans botched it. We farked up a lot of things, but it was the Afghans who completely failed to protect their country for even a minute. They couldn't hang on for a few months? I think they're all suffering from learned helplessness*. Not a way to run a military.

*PTSD

I don't actually blame anyone. As far as I'm concerned, everybody involved in a war or takeover is a loser.
 
2021-08-18 11:47:11 AM  

cryinoutloud: everybody involved in a war or takeover is a loser


Biggest losers of them all:

images01.military.comView Full Size
 
2021-08-18 12:17:35 PM  

cman: cryinoutloud: everybody involved in a war or takeover is a loser

Biggest losers of them all:

[images01.military.com image 620x413]


Considering the present state of affairs is what that got them?  I'm on the fence about that.
 
2021-08-18 12:32:15 PM  
Let's just all jizz ourselves because Republicans finally have something to go at Biden about. I mean, they don't actually f'n care about anyone in Afghanistan but trust me, their concern is totally heartfelt just like it was when they desperately supported trumps travel ban.
 
2021-08-18 12:32:32 PM  

cman: cryinoutloud: everybody involved in a war or takeover is a loser

Biggest losers of them all:

[images01.military.com image 620x413]


Mr. ex-President**?
 
2021-08-18 12:33:27 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-08-18 12:33:49 PM  

cryinoutloud: I don't think it was botched either. I think the Afghans botched it. We farked up a lot of things, but it was the Afghans who completely failed to protect their country for even a minute. They couldn't hang on for a few months? I think they're all suffering from learned helplessness*. Not a way to run a military.

*PTSD

I don't actually blame anyone. As far as I'm concerned, everybody involved in a war or takeover is a loser.


I don't think the Afghans botched it. They saw the writing on the wall and knew that it was a losing proposition in the long run, so why should they hang on for a few months when all it would do it lead to more deaths and would mostly just benefit our withdrawal?

It was our hubris that expected them to sacrifice troops to assist us leaving after we made a deal with the Taliban that never included the government that we thought would help us get out.
 
2021-08-18 12:34:47 PM  
They should show us how it's done, then.
 
2021-08-18 12:35:31 PM  
preview.redd.itView Full Size
 
2021-08-18 12:36:18 PM  
Good, hope we're an international embarrassment and the world never expects us to come sort out their shiat again, and the entire lesson learned is that the money and time was better spent taking care of our own failing nation.
 
2021-08-18 12:36:45 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-08-18 12:38:13 PM  
It's entirely our fault that the Afghan army wouldn't step up and defend a government that had already demonstrated it wasn't going to be taking care of anything once Uncle Sam left.

That's a much too complicated concept for about half the trolls here on Fark,much less the average Faux Nooz viewer.
 
2021-08-18 12:38:17 PM  

HerptheDerp: Good, hope we're an international embarrassment and the world never expects us to come sort out their shiat again, and the entire lesson learned is that the money and time was better spent taking care of our own failing nation.


LOL "lesson learned"

/See you at the next MIC quagmire!
 
2021-08-18 12:38:39 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-08-18 12:38:48 PM  
but the Afghan people have changed and they are going to stand up for what they believe in."

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-08-18 12:38:49 PM  

HerptheDerp: Good, hope we're an international embarrassment and the world never expects us to come sort out their shiat again, and the entire lesson learned is that the money and time was better spent taking care of our own failing nation.


You do realize that there are companies like Northrup Grummond on the stock exchange who need to be supported, right? And they occasionally employ liberals and "scientists".
 
2021-08-18 12:39:28 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: I don't think the Afghans botched it. They saw the writing on the wall and knew that it was a losing proposition in the long run, so why should they hang on for a few months when all it would do it lead to more deaths and would mostly just benefit our withdrawal?
It was our hubris that expected them to sacrifice troops to assist us leaving after we made a deal with the Taliban that never included the government that we thought would help us get out.


Like I say--I think I'm done with this subject. We all lose. Everyone loses. And the US looks really farking stupid, but I don't care about that.
 
2021-08-18 12:39:35 PM  
FTFA: "You know, the Taliban, it remains to be seen whether or not they have changed, but the Afghan people have changed and they are going to stand up for what they believe in."

Uh. Isn't this whole thing a result of Afghans *not* standing up for what they believe in? Yeesh.
 
2021-08-18 12:40:21 PM  

cryinoutloud: I don't think it was botched either. I think the Afghans botched it. We farked up a lot of things, but it was the Afghans who completely failed to protect their country for even a minute. They couldn't hang on for a few months? I think they're all suffering from learned helplessness*. Not a way to run a military.

*PTSD

I don't actually blame anyone. As far as I'm concerned, everybody involved in a war or takeover is a loser.


Isn't it so nice that brave men died so you could have your peaceful serene lifestyle
 
2021-08-18 12:41:13 PM  

yohohogreengiant: Really?

Someone should also get the Kurds' opinion. Remember them?

We had staunch, (somewhat) like-minded allies in Iraq. Their women fought along side their men. They had a vision for their future that didn't involve blowing up statues and museums and reverting to the 10th century. They at least understood the concept of democracy and that it was better than a theocracy. They had dreams of building a nation for their people, instead of unending intertribal conflict. We burned them for no gain.

There hasn't been anything like that in Afghanistan. We were always supporting the enemy of our enemy. This was evident with Reagan's public oral servicing of the Mujahideen when he compared them to our founding fathers' morals and ethics. Anyone with a couple brain cells to rub together and an even passing acquaintance with US history knew that wasn't a good thing at all. Especially when applied to the cultural and physical landscape of Afghanistan.

At least Reagan didn't fellate the Russians. I never, ever thought I'd have to tick that as a plus in favor of the senile, evil, petty, racist, homophobic, sexist, classist, semi-literate, inept, Nixonian, colonizing, piece of shiat actor. But, here we are. Thanks, Cheetohlini.


That isn't quite true. Back in 2001 the US had effective allies in Afghanistan from the Northern Alliance.

I do believe that there was a real potential to leave with a stable and mostly free Afghanistan. However it would require the Taliban being part of it.

But that possibility was destroyed on March 20, 2003. The invasion of Iraq changed it from a battle against the Taliban dictatorship to a war against all of Islam playing right into Taliban and Al Qaeda propaganda, and the Islamic world responded.
 
2021-08-18 12:41:49 PM  

Peki: FTFA: "You know, the Taliban, it remains to be seen whether or not they have changed,


Spoiler alert: No. No they have not.
 
2021-08-18 12:41:54 PM  

billygeek: [Fark user image image 850x913]


Except for that whole, "took over by force" thingy.
 
2021-08-18 12:42:09 PM  
If the US is able to get all of its people out alive along with as many refugees as they can, I don't think that's a botched withdrawal. It's a botched exercise in nation building, sure. But the withdrawal seems to be going on just fine (at least so far).

I don't understand what people want to happen here. Biden campaigned on "ending forever wars." Nearly every Democrat agreed with that. Trump and most Republicans wanted it too. The Libertarians and Greens wanted it. This is what everyone wanted, and now nobody's happy?

Get out of here with the crocodile tears for the Afghan people. Nobody ever wanted to spend the money or lives necessary to actually establish an independent Afghan Democracy. Even Obama's "surge" was a fraction of what strategists said was necessary. Nobody had the stomach to make the sacrifice. Not congress, not us.

And that's fine! I'm not saying it should be the US' responsibility to defend the rights of every human alive. I certainly won't ask any young Americans to give their lives while I'm sitting safely at a keyboard. I'm just saying, if that's what you believe, then you need to accept that this tragic outcome is the direct result of that decision.
 
2021-08-18 12:43:44 PM  

red230: [preview.redd.it image 850x630]


You ain't wrong....

Fark user imageView Full Size

Fuentes is a far right hatemonger that's also a frequent contributor to Alex Jones show/network...
 
2021-08-18 12:44:15 PM  
Anybody else notice how the Taliban *aren't* biatching about us not leaving on May 1st but Republicans are?
 
2021-08-18 12:44:34 PM  

fiddlehead: Peki: FTFA: "You know, the Taliban, it remains to be seen whether or not they have changed,

Spoiler alert: No. No they have not.


That too. No one trusts the Taliban, especially the women.
 
2021-08-18 12:45:18 PM  

HerptheDerp: Good, hope we're an international embarrassment and the world never expects us to come sort out their shiat again, and the entire lesson learned is that the money and time was better spent taking care of our own failing nation.


Yep, your NATO allies are pissed as well.

Now I've only heard it officially from the Danish foreign minister, but he said that when Denmark came to USA's aid, loosing 44 soldiers in combat, it was a dickmove by USA to unilaterally be the cause of this chaos, that made it very difficult to evacuate Danish citizens, and Afghans who worked for the Danish army.

He said that despite Denmark loosing as many soldiers per inhabitant, it was not treated as equal partners.
 
2021-08-18 12:45:22 PM  
Where the bitterness, where the sadness, where the fear comes from is the manner in which this withdrawal was executed, the chaos of it, the hurried nature of it, the fact that more concessions weren't extracted from the Taliban during those negotiations" in 2020.

Maybe if we some sort of super negotiator back then, someone who'd mastered the art of the deal, we would be in this situation now.
 
2021-08-18 12:49:32 PM  

HerptheDerp: Good, hope we're an international embarrassment and the world never expects us to come sort out their shiat again, and the entire lesson learned is that the money and time was better spent taking care of our own failing nation.


This.  If there's anything America can learn from its' failed imperial adventurism in Afghanistan it's to NO LONGER DO IMPERIAL ADVENTURISM.
 
2021-08-18 12:50:29 PM  

cryinoutloud: I don't think it was botched either. I think the Afghans botched it. We farked up a lot of things, but it was the Afghans who completely failed to protect their country for even a minute. They couldn't hang on for a few months? I think they're all suffering from learned helplessness*. Not a way to run a military.

*PTSD

I don't actually blame anyone. As far as I'm concerned, everybody involved in a war or takeover is a loser.


Yeah, but the conservative news media has to call it botched in order to make Biden look bad.  Even though he has nothing to do with it.
 
2021-08-18 12:50:31 PM  

hissatsu: Where the bitterness, where the sadness, where the fear comes from is the manner in which this withdrawal was executed, the chaos of it, the hurried nature of it, the fact that more concessions weren't extracted from the Taliban during those negotiations" in 2020.

Maybe if we some sort of super negotiator back then, someone who'd mastered the art of the deal, we would be in this situation now.


Now I am all for criticizing Trump's "negotiations"

But, does anyone thing the Taliban would honour a deal? Once they are in charge, that deal is worthless.
 
2021-08-18 12:50:59 PM  

HerptheDerp: Good, hope we're an international embarrassment and the world never expects us to come sort out their shiat again, and the entire lesson learned is that the money and time was better spent taking care of our own failing nation.


That IS a bright spot. keep digging.
 
2021-08-18 12:51:11 PM  
FTA: "You know, the Taliban, it remains to be seen whether or not they have changed, but the Afghan people have changed and they are going to stand up for what they believe in."

Now the Zen master says, "We'll see."
 
2021-08-18 12:51:44 PM  
. Where the bitterness, where the sadness, where the fear comes from is the manner in which this withdrawal was executed, the chaos of it, the hurried nature of it, the fact that more concessions weren't extracted from the Taliban during those negotiations" in 2020.

Damn Biden for not executing a better deal in 2020!  Next time lets get someone that writes books on deal making!
 
2021-08-18 12:51:57 PM  
FTA: "the fact that more concessions weren't extracted from the Taliban during those negotiations" in 2020."

Just because I feel it needs to be highlighted
 
2021-08-18 12:52:04 PM  

jethroe: HerptheDerp: Good, hope we're an international embarrassment and the world never expects us to come sort out their shiat again, and the entire lesson learned is that the money and time was better spent taking care of our own failing nation.

This.  If there's anything America can learn from its' failed imperial adventurism in Afghanistan it's to NO LONGER DO IMPERIAL ADVENTURISM.


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(catches breath)

Oh, man, thanks. I needed that.
 
2021-08-18 12:52:32 PM  
Can we sent them our spare jihadis? We have a burgeoning surplus it seems.
 
2021-08-18 12:53:30 PM  

Peter von Nostrand: Republicans finally have something to go at Biden about.


Finally?!?

Screwing up the border, the oil pipeline, and a rational Covid policy weren't enough for you? Biden is a waking disaster, when he's awake.
 
2021-08-18 12:54:08 PM  
dywed88:
But, does anyone thing the Taliban would honour a deal? Once they are in charge, that deal is worthless.

Didn't we have a 4 year master class showing this is exactly how deals are supposed to work?
 
2021-08-18 12:54:11 PM  

snowshovel: HerptheDerp: Good, hope we're an international embarrassment and the world never expects us to come sort out their shiat again, and the entire lesson learned is that the money and time was better spent taking care of our own failing nation.

You do realize that there are companies like Northrup Grummond on the stock exchange who need to be supported, right? And they occasionally employ liberals and "scientists".


You do realize they would work for other companies if we invested that money in renewable energy technologies, medical research, etc? Instead of pissing it away finding new and exciting ways of killing each other.
 
2021-08-18 12:56:10 PM  

Kangaroo_Ralph: Peter von Nostrand: Republicans finally have something to go at Biden about.

Finally?!?

Screwing up the border, the oil pipeline, and a rational Covid policy weren't enough for you? Biden is a waking disaster, when he's awake.


Your concern for things you just made up is noted.
 
2021-08-18 12:56:51 PM  

hissatsu: Where the bitterness, where the sadness, where the fear comes from is the manner in which this withdrawal was executed, the chaos of it, the hurried nature of it, the fact that more concessions weren't extracted from the Taliban during those negotiations" in 2020.

Maybe if we some sort of super negotiator back then, someone who'd mastered the art of the deal, we would be in this situation now.


Oh my, where would we find such leadership in January, 2020? Golly!
 
2021-08-18 12:57:05 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-08-18 12:57:11 PM  

Lumbar Puncture: cryinoutloud: I don't think it was botched either. I think the Afghans botched it. We farked up a lot of things, but it was the Afghans who completely failed to protect their country for even a minute. They couldn't hang on for a few months? I think they're all suffering from learned helplessness*. Not a way to run a military.

*PTSD

I don't actually blame anyone. As far as I'm concerned, everybody involved in a war or takeover is a loser.

I don't think the Afghans botched it. They saw the writing on the wall and knew that it was a losing proposition in the long run, so why should they hang on for a few months when all it would do it lead to more deaths and would mostly just benefit our withdrawal?

It was our hubris that expected them to sacrifice troops to assist us leaving after we made a deal with the Taliban that never included the government that we thought would help us get out.


Their generals and Leadership most definitely knew it was a losing proposition from the beginning. That's why they grabbed as many handfuls of cash as they could and started putting it away from the beginning. The leadership in Afghanistan never had any intention of doing anything protect or free their Nation. This was painfully obvious from the beginning when everyone said that the current way we are Prosecuting the Afghanistan war was a mistake.

This was going to be a mess no matter what.
 
2021-08-18 12:57:48 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: Everybody's all breathlessly telling us how everyone in Afghanistan feels without having set foot in the country.  They must be, like, total geniuses or something.


You know the CNN Reporter quoted in the article is in Kabul right now talking to people, right?
 
2021-08-18 12:58:16 PM  

red230: [preview.redd.it image 850x630]


Yoink
 
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