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(Politicus USA)   Barbara Lee basically says "I told you so"   (politicususa.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, United States, only member of Congress, Representative Barbara Lee, use of force, Pakistan, moral responsibility, Taliban, speech Lee  
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3633 clicks; posted to Politics » on 17 Aug 2021 at 3:01 PM (15 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-08-17 12:28:40 PM  
If you didn't see this coming, then you just don't know us very well.
 
2021-08-17 12:38:19 PM  
Lee's right, you know.
 
2021-08-17 12:44:19 PM  
This was going to be the outcome once OBL fled through Tora Bora and Bush decided to go play in another sandbox.
 
2021-08-17 1:48:16 PM  

somedude210: This was going to be the outcome once OBL fled through Tora Bora and Bush decided to go play in another sandbox.


Right and in 6 months no one is going to care as long as they keep their crazy inside their own borders... which eventually they won't. The taliban will need money for overhead eventually so ISIS types will eventually bribe their way in to having their lil clutch of suicidal idiots camped out (a la OBL) in the mountains (or worse in the palace) with the 'government' looking the other way.
 
2021-08-17 1:52:40 PM  

tfresh: somedude210: This was going to be the outcome once OBL fled through Tora Bora and Bush decided to go play in another sandbox.

Right and in 6 months no one is going to care as long as they keep their crazy inside their own borders... which eventually they won't. The taliban will need money for overhead eventually so ISIS types will eventually bribe their way in to having their lil clutch of suicidal idiots camped out (a la OBL) in the mountains (or worse in the palace) with the 'government' looking the other way.


Just because they do, doesn't mean the US will be the target. Both Russia and China have Islamic extremist problems.

China seems to be the next one up to bat
 
2021-08-17 3:03:46 PM  
What mistake? The military industrial complex got to suckle the teet of Uncle same for $2 trillion over 20 years, that was always the plan. The difficulty now is trying to figure out where to fight the next war so we can keep making more bombs, planes, drones, and weapons.

The beast must be fed.
 
2021-08-17 3:04:12 PM  

somedude210: tfresh: somedude210: This was going to be the outcome once OBL fled through Tora Bora and Bush decided to go play in another sandbox.

Right and in 6 months no one is going to care as long as they keep their crazy inside their own borders... which eventually they won't. The taliban will need money for overhead eventually so ISIS types will eventually bribe their way in to having their lil clutch of suicidal idiots camped out (a la OBL) in the mountains (or worse in the palace) with the 'government' looking the other way.

Just because they do, doesn't mean the US will be the target. Both Russia and China have Islamic extremist problems.

China seems to be the next one up to bat


Oh, I assure, we've successfully made plenty of enemies there and they won't forget anytime soon.
 
2021-08-17 3:04:52 PM  
There are millions of us who can say we told them so.  You remember us, right?  We used to be called American hating brainless morans.  Now we're called American hating Antifa commies by the same people
 
2021-08-17 3:05:39 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-08-17 3:05:40 PM  
She was and is right. It's too bad that the US military industrial complex has shifted to the East Asia pivot. Now they want to start a new cold war with China.
 
2021-08-17 3:05:52 PM  
She deserves to say "I told you so."

She caught a lot of flack for that vote.
 
2021-08-17 3:06:31 PM  

Weird Hal: There are millions of us who can say we told them so.  You remember us, right?  We used to be called American hating brainless morans.  Now we're called American hating Antifa commies by the same people


There's nothing funnier than being called a Communist for refusing to go along with the majority.
 
2021-08-17 3:08:02 PM  
Well, she's a woman, so that made about half the U.S. population check right the fark out on giving a shiat about her opinion (and I mean both men and women when I say that). Then she lost another 25% or so by being black.

So, yeah, she told us, but it's not like anybody who mattered was gonna listen.

And they won't listen now, for the same reasons.
 
2021-08-17 3:08:15 PM  
Should have left a large solid obelisks in various places in Afghanistan with FA-FO carved in them.   The rumor being that they're nuclear devices and the U S can remote detonate them.  Disturbing them also makes 'em go boom.

When the Taliban do something stupid, maybe a nice red light starts flashing on the one in downtown Kabul.

Yeah.  They'd do something just to see if they do go boom.
 
2021-08-17 3:08:22 PM  

tfresh: somedude210: This was going to be the outcome once OBL fled through Tora Bora and Bush decided to go play in another sandbox.

Right and in 6 months no one is going to care as long as they keep their crazy inside their own borders... which eventually they won't. The taliban will need money for overhead eventually so ISIS types will eventually bribe their way in to having their lil clutch of suicidal idiots camped out (a la OBL) in the mountains (or worse in the palace) with the 'government' looking the other way.


Between Heroin, Selling US material, and Mineral Rights they are going to sell to China, the Taliban will be flush with cash for the next decade.
 
2021-08-17 3:09:11 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-08-17 3:09:34 PM  

somedude210: tfresh: somedude210: This was going to be the outcome once OBL fled through Tora Bora and Bush decided to go play in another sandbox.

Right and in 6 months no one is going to care as long as they keep their crazy inside their own borders... which eventually they won't. The taliban will need money for overhead eventually so ISIS types will eventually bribe their way in to having their lil clutch of suicidal idiots camped out (a la OBL) in the mountains (or worse in the palace) with the 'government' looking the other way.

Just because they do, doesn't mean the US will be the target. Both Russia and China have Islamic extremist problems.

China seems to be the next one up to bat


Since my limited understanding of communism is that it is an extreme version of socialism I guess that means the Chinese will be burying the Afghanis in limitless entitlement programs.
 
2021-08-17 3:10:23 PM  
 
2021-08-17 3:10:53 PM  

Weird Hal: There are millions of us who can say we told them so.  You remember us, right?  We used to be called American hating brainless morans.  Now we're called American hating Antifa commies by the same people


Hell, just yesterday a "Fark Democrat"  (aka embarrassed Republican) tried accusing me of being heartless and un-American because I said I was against the Afghanistan war when we started and tried 9/11-ing me. The Afghanistan war killed 150% more Americans than 9/11 and injured tens of thousands more, but he didn't want to hear that.
 
2021-08-17 3:11:29 PM  
...the United States must learn from its mistakes.

Our Republican leaders don't "learn."  They give orders and profit.
 
2021-08-17 3:11:35 PM  

Weatherkiss: Even Bernie admitted he was wrong and that she was right.


I do like him.
 
2021-08-17 3:12:26 PM  
Family Guy-Didn't I tell you
Youtube AXTQeSGJjGM
 
2021-08-17 3:12:28 PM  
Burn
 
2021-08-17 3:13:12 PM  
In the next handout to the military contractors, because we can't stop the government from going into more wars, let's just go into the country, have all the women evacuated immediately, then leave.

We can stop decades of occupation and not have the womanitarian crisis like we are having now in afghanistan.  And the contractors can get their money evacuating the women.  And the religious fundamentalists can get their country back as soon as possible.  Plus we increase the ratio of women to men in the US.  Wins all the way around.

Problem solved.
 
2021-08-17 3:13:52 PM  
Authorizing military force against al Qaeda and those harboring them was the right thing to do.
 
2021-08-17 3:14:35 PM  

Cache: ...the United States must learn from its mistakes.

Our Republican leaders don't "learn."  They give orders and profit.


Besides, this is like the billionth mistake we've made and yet we keep doing it. We will learn nothing from this, I guaran-farking-tee it.
 
2021-08-17 3:15:07 PM  
And yet Fox News regularly presents her as a racist caricature of those uppity 'urban' voters, even though she was the only one with the foresight 20 years ago to vote no.

I'm sure their apology will be coming, any minute now...
 
2021-08-17 3:15:22 PM  
She's won that right. In fact every politician should defer to her if anything about Afghanistan starts to come out of their mouths. Especially anyone from the farking Bush admin.
 
2021-08-17 3:16:12 PM  

sprgrss: Authorizing military force against al Qaeda and those harboring them was the right thing to do.


lol tell me how we ended up getting Bin laden again?
 
2021-08-17 3:19:05 PM  

misanthropicsob: Weird Hal: There are millions of us who can say we told them so.  You remember us, right?  We used to be called American hating brainless morans.  Now we're called American hating Antifa commies by the same people

Hell, just yesterday a "Fark Democrat"  (aka embarrassed Republican) tried accusing me of being heartless and un-American because I said I was against the Afghanistan war when we started and tried 9/11-ing me. The Afghanistan war killed 150% more Americans than 9/11 and injured tens of thousands more, but he didn't want to hear that.


You are right to be honest.

Never should have gone there.  Never should have stayed.

We should try to lifeboat as many people as possible, but leaving was the right thing to do.

Also we had a 9/11 a day at one point due to COVID, so I am thinking 3,000 American lives don't mean a whole lot to about 40 percent of the country,
 
2021-08-17 3:19:35 PM  

tfresh: somedude210: This was going to be the outcome once OBL fled through Tora Bora and Bush decided to go play in another sandbox.

Right and in 6 months no one is going to care as long as they keep their crazy inside their own borders... which eventually they won't. The taliban will need money for overhead eventually so ISIS types will eventually bribe their way in to having their lil clutch of suicidal idiots camped out (a la OBL) in the mountains (or worse in the palace) with the 'government' looking the other way.


Doubtful. The Taliban hates ISIS. They've been fighting in the eastern and northern provinces for 6 years. 

The Afghan Arabs (transplants) have a different set of goals and interpretation of Islam. Afghans are more nationalistic.

The Taliban farked up with OBL. They know it.
When the 2001 kicked off, some of the best Taliban commanders surrendered to the US/Northern Alliance with their men assuming they'd be paroled to sit out the war against AQ.

Then Bush had the leaders blackbagged to Gitmo and the fighters incarcerated.
 
2021-08-17 3:21:51 PM  
Hillary in 2001 ...

Hillary Clinton speaks out about US links with Taliban
Youtube X2CE0fyz4ys
 
2021-08-17 3:24:06 PM  
Anyone with even a slight knowledge of history (so very few actual people) knows to leave Afghanistan to the Afghanis. Lee was one of those people. There is a lesson here.  See the pattern here you idiots?
 
2021-08-17 3:25:40 PM  

somedude210: tfresh: somedude210: This was going to be the outcome once OBL fled through Tora Bora and Bush decided to go play in another sandbox.

Right and in 6 months no one is going to care as long as they keep their crazy inside their own borders... which eventually they won't. The taliban will need money for overhead eventually so ISIS types will eventually bribe their way in to having their lil clutch of suicidal idiots camped out (a la OBL) in the mountains (or worse in the palace) with the 'government' looking the other way.

Just because they do, doesn't mean the US will be the target. Both Russia and China have Islamic extremist problems.

China seems to be the next one up to bat


Hell, they've practically signed up for it.  It's one thing to poke the bees nest.  It's another to go and stand right under the thing afterwards.
 
2021-08-17 3:26:11 PM  
What's Congress-talk for "How ya like me now?"
 
2021-08-17 3:29:08 PM  
Senator Byrd was right about the Iraq War and more so about the United States of Citizens United.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zeAFb​5​p2qX8
 
2021-08-17 3:29:21 PM  

Candy Colored Clown: sprgrss: Authorizing military force against al Qaeda and those harboring them was the right thing to do.

lol tell me how we ended up getting Bin laden again?


By being invited into Saudi Arabia by the Saudi government.
 
2021-08-17 3:31:09 PM  

GlamrLama: Anyone with even a slight knowledge of history (so very few actual people) knows to leave Afghanistan to the Afghanis. Lee was one of those people. There is a lesson here.  See the pattern here you idiots?


If you are going to try to lecture, you should at least get the demonym correct.
 
2021-08-17 3:35:34 PM  

HerptheDerp: What mistake? The military industrial complex got to suckle the teet of Uncle same for $2 trillion over 20 years, that was always the plan. The difficulty now is trying to figure out where to fight the next war so we can keep making more bombs, planes, drones, and weapons.

The beast must be fed.


The next deployment will be in Africa. We already have some troops there. Since China will be working with the Taliban in Afghanistan to start mining the minerals there and cornering the market of said minerals needed for various industries, the United States is going to have to secure like minerals in Africa.
 
2021-08-17 3:40:19 PM  

SirGunslinger: tfresh: somedude210: This was going to be the outcome once OBL fled through Tora Bora and Bush decided to go play in another sandbox.

Right and in 6 months no one is going to care as long as they keep their crazy inside their own borders... which eventually they won't. The taliban will need money for overhead eventually so ISIS types will eventually bribe their way in to having their lil clutch of suicidal idiots camped out (a la OBL) in the mountains (or worse in the palace) with the 'government' looking the other way.

Between Heroin, Selling US material, and Mineral Rights they are going to sell to China, the Taliban will be flush with cash for the next decade.


Yeah they won't sell mineral rights to China. Everyone goes there for those mineral rights wanna guess why nobody ever mines them? It's really hard to mine them when the local warlord or his rivals keeps you from actually building anything.
 
2021-08-17 3:42:15 PM  

AmbassadorBooze: In the next handout to the military contractors, because we can't stop the government from going into more wars, let's just go into the country, have all the women evacuated immediately, then leave.

We can stop decades of occupation and not have the womanitarian crisis like we are having now in afghanistan.


So we should invade a nation just to steal their women? FFS.

How long have you been a member of Boko Haram?
 
2021-08-17 3:42:18 PM  

born_yesterday: somedude210: tfresh: somedude210: This was going to be the outcome once OBL fled through Tora Bora and Bush decided to go play in another sandbox.

Right and in 6 months no one is going to care as long as they keep their crazy inside their own borders... which eventually they won't. The taliban will need money for overhead eventually so ISIS types will eventually bribe their way in to having their lil clutch of suicidal idiots camped out (a la OBL) in the mountains (or worse in the palace) with the 'government' looking the other way.

Just because they do, doesn't mean the US will be the target. Both Russia and China have Islamic extremist problems.

China seems to be the next one up to bat

Since my limited understanding of communism is that it is an extreme version of socialism I guess that means the Chinese will be burying the Afghanis in limitless entitlement programs.


It's not. Socialism is when the Government controls the means of production. Communism is when everyone votes on what the company produces.
 
2021-08-17 3:45:21 PM  
Lee has also brought resolutions to end the AUMF several times in the past 20 years, the most recent one being passed by the House under Twice Impeached Guy before being ignored by McTurtle. Implicit in this is that she's been re-elected every two years since 1998.
 
2021-08-17 3:45:41 PM  

sprgrss: GlamrLama: Anyone with even a slight knowledge of history (so very few actual people) knows to leave Afghanistan to the Afghanis. Lee was one of those people. There is a lesson here.  See the pattern here you idiots?

If you are going to try to lecture, you should at least get the demonym correct.


That's been funny in these threads.

"Why are these people crying about the plight of money. . . OHHH, they're just idiots."
 
2021-08-17 3:51:44 PM  

sprgrss: Candy Colored Clown: sprgrss: Authorizing military force against al Qaeda and those harboring them was the right thing to do.

lol tell me how we ended up getting Bin laden again?

By being invited into Saudi Arabia by the Saudi government.


You have to go back to Kuwait slant drilling into Iraqi oil fields and Iraq invading Kuwait in retaliation. Ben Ladin wanted his holy army to drive the Iraqi army out, but Saudi Arabia hired the United States instead. This Al Queda was born.
 
2021-08-17 3:52:41 PM  

Decorus: SirGunslinger: tfresh: somedude210: This was going to be the outcome once OBL fled through Tora Bora and Bush decided to go play in another sandbox.

Right and in 6 months no one is going to care as long as they keep their crazy inside their own borders... which eventually they won't. The taliban will need money for overhead eventually so ISIS types will eventually bribe their way in to having their lil clutch of suicidal idiots camped out (a la OBL) in the mountains (or worse in the palace) with the 'government' looking the other way.

Between Heroin, Selling US material, and Mineral Rights they are going to sell to China, the Taliban will be flush with cash for the next decade.

Yeah they won't sell mineral rights to China. Everyone goes there for those mineral rights wanna guess why nobody ever mines them? It's really hard to mine them when the local warlord or his rivals keeps you from actually building anything.


Actually, the warlord and rivals is the easiest part to solve. The biggest issue is logistics. Transportation is a massive PITA since there is no supporting infrastructure to get that ore around much less processed and refined. That is one of the reasons why China has a decent shot since they are going to treat Afghanistan like they are Africa. Setup the transportation to access the resources and mine the resources. They don't really give a damn about the local politics or tribes. They will either bribe or kill whoever gets in their way.
 
2021-08-17 3:53:16 PM  
She was always right about the end result -- I think anyone who's read any the history of the place knew that was likely.

But what were the goals of the War on Terror, really? Especially where Afghanistan and the Taliban were concerned?

To dislodge the Taliban from their safe heaven and to kill OBL -- and keeping them occupied and off US soil while the USA learned to protect itself better at home -- something which it never had to consider prior to 9/11.

Given that it's been 20 years since an attack like 9/11, OBL is shark food, and the Taliban, although not defeated, are certainly chastened and will be more cautious about hosting terrorists with a plan to attack the USA on its home soil, you could say that some goals were accomplished.

Not that it wasn't a ridiculous endeavor -- the Taliban were scattered by 2003, and OBL was killed in Pakistan.
 
2021-08-17 3:53:22 PM  

Shaggy_C: AmbassadorBooze: In the next handout to the military contractors, because we can't stop the government from going into more wars, let's just go into the country, have all the women evacuated immediately, then leave.

We can stop decades of occupation and not have the womanitarian crisis like we are having now in afghanistan.

So we should invade a nation just to steal their women? FFS.

How long have you been a member of Boko Haram?


Well, leaving the women didn't work either.

So we occupy Afghanistan forever?

How do you propose the women of Afghanistan keep their humxn rights?  Ask the Taliban nicely to treat them nice?  Or should we have swept into Afghanistan and EVACUATED all the women, to allow them to have freedom from religion.

Not steal.  Evacuate.  I guess let the women who want to stay stay.  But when they get their humxn rights violated we don't have to feel bad.  Because we offered to evacuate them.

Evacuating all the women of Afghanistan is an immediate solution and it won't take millions of years for the culture to change.

It is literally the best option we should have taken in 2001.  Declare war, evacuate the women, and then tell the men that they get to keep the country.  Bring the women to the US and let them be free.  In a generation, when the men expire, do a new homestead program and import people with the correct ideas to settle the land.  No violence needed, except to protect the women as they are evacuated.
 
2021-08-17 3:55:34 PM  

Decorus: You have to go back to Kuwait slant drilling into Iraqi oil fields and Iraq invading Kuwait in retaliation. Ben Ladin wanted his holy army to drive the Iraqi army out, but Saudi Arabia hired the United States instead. This Al Queda was born.


broseph, this is a really bad historical take.  bin Laden had zero interest in fighting the Iraqis.  His anger at the US stems entirely stems from the US putting military bases in Saudi Arabia at the request of the House of Saud.
 
2021-08-17 4:15:07 PM  

SirGunslinger: Decorus: SirGunslinger: tfresh: somedude210: This was going to be the outcome once OBL fled through Tora Bora and Bush decided to go play in another sandbox.

Right and in 6 months no one is going to care as long as they keep their crazy inside their own borders... which eventually they won't. The taliban will need money for overhead eventually so ISIS types will eventually bribe their way in to having their lil clutch of suicidal idiots camped out (a la OBL) in the mountains (or worse in the palace) with the 'government' looking the other way.

Between Heroin, Selling US material, and Mineral Rights they are going to sell to China, the Taliban will be flush with cash for the next decade.

Yeah they won't sell mineral rights to China. Everyone goes there for those mineral rights wanna guess why nobody ever mines them? It's really hard to mine them when the local warlord or his rivals keeps you from actually building anything.

Actually, the warlord and rivals is the easiest part to solve. The biggest issue is logistics. Transportation is a massive PITA since there is no supporting infrastructure to get that ore around much less processed and refined. That is one of the reasons why China has a decent shot since they are going to treat Afghanistan like they are Africa. Setup the transportation to access the resources and mine the resources. They don't really give a damn about the local politics or tribes. They will either bribe or kill whoever gets in their way.


Except that as soon as you do either of those things, you are de facto getting involved in local politics and tribes.

What China needs to be successful is to do what none of the other empires before did: Get in and then get out as quickly as possible.  The longer they stay, the more involved they get and the more enemies they create.  The only time the US has come close to that was the first Gulf War.  Kick the Iraqis out of Kuwait and reduce their military to the point where they can no longer be a threat to their neighbors (particularly the Saudis).  But even then, we stuck around in Saudi Arabia far too long after that, thereby activating the fever dreams of terrorists like bin Laden.
 
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