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(NBC Washington)   Arizona farmers worried that impending cuts to the amount of water they'll be receiving from the Colorado River may negatively impact their cunningly conceived plan of growing freakin' crops in the Arizona desert   (nbcwashington.com) divider line
    More: Repeat, Colorado River, Arizona, enough water, Water resources, Arizona farmers, water supply, U.S. Bureau of Reclamation, next year  
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1113 clicks; posted to Main » on 13 Aug 2021 at 8:30 PM (15 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-08-13 8:33:30 PM  
Kingofthehill.jpg
 
2021-08-13 8:34:04 PM  
100 years ago....

We have a massive river running through our state, lots of sunshine, and plenty of land. This is the perfect place to grow warm weather crops.

Now...

Serves you write for growing crops in the desert. All that water is the property of Los Angles.
 
2021-08-13 8:34:37 PM  
Hahahahahahahahahahahaha.

I knew moment that the Colorado hit that level that forced renegotiating the water compact that they'd be farked.

Couldn't happen to a nicer corporation.
 
2021-08-13 8:34:53 PM  
No problem they'll just bootstrap up a couple million acre-feet real quick.
 
2021-08-13 8:35:13 PM  

Grauenwolf: 100 years ago....

We have a massive river running through our state, lots of sunshine, and plenty of land. This is the perfect place to grow warm weather crops.

Now...

Serves you write for growing crops in the desert. All that water is the property of Los Angles.


Oh, LA is just as farked.
 
2021-08-13 8:38:26 PM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Oh, LA is just as farked.


Too bad they don't have any nuclear plants they can use to run a desalination operation.
 
2021-08-13 8:38:47 PM  
Growing crops in Arizona is less absurd than growing grass for golf courses, yet somehow they find the water for a lot of them.
 
2021-08-13 8:40:05 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-08-13 8:44:46 PM  

Neondistraction: Growing crops in Arizona is less absurd than growing grass for golf courses, yet somehow they find the water for a lot of them.


Phoenix has more golf courses per capita than any other city in the world.

The city is full of lawns and fountains.

It's utterly grotesque how much water they waste.
 
2021-08-13 8:45:14 PM  
Thankfully, good farmland in the Midwest is disappearing under parking lots.
 
2021-08-13 8:45:23 PM  
30 yrs ago the biggest water user was mines. I imagine that is still going on.
 
2021-08-13 8:48:56 PM  

rolladuck: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Oh, LA is just as farked.

Too bad they don't have any nuclear plants they can use to run a desalination operation.


A far easier fix is to stop growing crops in California deserts.

There's enough water for everybody to drink. It's the stupid amount of water taken to grow cash crops in a desert that's causing the problem.
 
2021-08-13 8:49:40 PM  
Nuts
 
2021-08-13 8:50:06 PM  
Obligatory:

Sam Kinison World Hunger
Youtube P0q4o58pKwA
 
2021-08-13 8:51:11 PM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: rolladuck: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Oh, LA is just as farked.

Too bad they don't have any nuclear plants they can use to run a desalination operation.

A far easier fix is to stop growing crops in California deserts.

There's enough water for everybody to drink. It's the stupid amount of water taken to grow cash crops in a desert that's causing the problem.


Where exactly are the cash crops being grown in the California desert?
 
2021-08-13 8:52:13 PM  

bigdog1960: 30 yrs ago the biggest water user was mines. I imagine that is still going on.


Going from the USGS' pie chart, not so much anymore

https://www.usgs.gov/mission-areas/wa​t​er-resources/science/colorado-river-ba​sin-focus-area-study-water-use?qt-scie​nce_center_objects=0#qt-science_center​_objects

2010 data but I haven't heard of any big silver mines starting up around Tempe
 
2021-08-13 8:52:49 PM  

waxbeans: Nuts


Alfalfa for export to China
 
TWX
2021-08-13 8:54:39 PM  

Grauenwolf: 100 years ago....

We have a massive river running through our state, lots of sunshine, and plenty of land. This is the perfect place to grow warm weather crops.

Now...

Serves you write for growing crops in the desert. All that water is the property of Los Angles.


California shouldn't be entitled to any more water than it was when the compact was agreed upon.

As for crops, my extended family are farmers in the midwest, and my dad still owns shares in the family farm business.  It seems like something's wrong every year there.  One year it's too dry as it didn't rain enough, another year it's too wet and the seedlings have rotted in the ground, another year it's too hot or too cold.  Insurance ends up paying for crop failures A LOT.

Growing crops through artificial irrigation gives the farmer a large degree of control over soil moisture content.  Farmers can control how much water makes it into the fields, they're not limited to what nature provides.  It would not surprise me if we see more efforts to better target water delivery as means to continue to grow crops in arid climates, allowing less total water usage because it's better delivered.

Obviously existing irrigation techniques are problematic, simply flooding rows of fields isn't sustainable.  But if farmers and engineers can develop better techniques to deliver water to crops where less water continues to result in productive yields then I don't see the practice ending any time soon.  After all, crops fit for harvest are more useful for food security than crop failures due to relying on an ever-changing mother nature.
 
2021-08-13 8:59:23 PM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: A far easier fix is to stop growing crops in California deserts.


growing crops in that environment makes sense since you can control how much water gets used much better than when dealing with natural rainfall.
 
2021-08-13 9:00:23 PM  

austerity101: Neondistraction: Growing crops in Arizona is less absurd than growing grass for golf courses, yet somehow they find the water for a lot of them.

Phoenix has more golf courses per capita than any other city in the world.

The city is full of lawns and fountains.

It's utterly grotesque how much water they waste.


Yes, and many of them threw a temper tantrum when it was suggested they cut back their groundwater usage by 5%.  I saw where the amount of groundwater the golf courses use was equivalent to the average use of 150,000 single family homes.  That's really quite mind-numbing when you think about it.
 
2021-08-13 9:01:37 PM  

Parthenogenetic: Obligatory:

[YouTube video: Sam Kinison World Hunger]


Came for this, leaving satiated like an almond grove near Modesto.
 
2021-08-13 9:04:08 PM  
I was feeling sorry for the farmers and started hunting up other articles. Turns out they've had few regulations in AZ for decades (surprise, surprise!), and have abused their access to water in ways that have been wasteful and abusive to everyone else - i.e., residents, even in shiatty places like Phoenix.

fark 'em.
 
2021-08-13 9:04:39 PM  

whither_apophis: waxbeans: Nuts

Alfalfa for export to China


It's even worse:
"By the start of 2020, Chinese owners controlled about 192,000 agricultural acres in the U.S., worth $1.9 billion, including land used for farming, ranching and forestry, according to the Agriculture Department."
And, they own 1 out of every 4 pigs raised in the U.S.: https://revealnews.org/article/​how-chi​na-purchased-a-prime-cut-of-americas-p​ork-industry/

I guess if they own the alfalfa field they get the alfalfa.

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/07​/​19/china-buying-us-farms-foreign-purch​ase-499893
 
2021-08-13 9:05:16 PM  

Neondistraction: austerity101: Neondistraction: Growing crops in Arizona is less absurd than growing grass for golf courses, yet somehow they find the water for a lot of them.

Phoenix has more golf courses per capita than any other city in the world.

The city is full of lawns and fountains.

It's utterly grotesque how much water they waste.

Yes, and many of them threw a temper tantrum when it was suggested they cut back their groundwater usage by 5%.  I saw where the amount of groundwater the golf courses use was equivalent to the average use of 150,000 single family homes.  That's really quite mind-numbing when you think about it.


I was utterly flabbergasted when I moved to Phoenix and I learned that the city did basically nothing to try to be green or efficient.

I was like, "So everyone must have like amazing insulation, right? And solar panels and passive cooling systems and stuff?" and everyone just kind of stared at me blankly while flooding their yards for some damn reason.
 
2021-08-13 9:08:05 PM  
Desalination is stupid. It requires ridiculous amounts of energy compared to what we get out of it.

California coastal cities produce ridiculous amounts of waste water. Treating that and sending it back into the fresh water pipes would cost a fraction of what desalination costs.

"But potty water is icky."

People need to grow up a little and stop focusing on what's cool over what's practical.
 
2021-08-13 9:15:22 PM  

austerity101: Neondistraction: austerity101: Neondistraction: Growing crops in Arizona is less absurd than growing grass for golf courses, yet somehow they find the water for a lot of them.

Phoenix has more golf courses per capita than any other city in the world.

The city is full of lawns and fountains.

It's utterly grotesque how much water they waste.

Yes, and many of them threw a temper tantrum when it was suggested they cut back their groundwater usage by 5%.  I saw where the amount of groundwater the golf courses use was equivalent to the average use of 150,000 single family homes.  That's really quite mind-numbing when you think about it.

I was utterly flabbergasted when I moved to Phoenix and I learned that the city did basically nothing to try to be green or efficient.

I was like, "So everyone must have like amazing insulation, right? And solar panels and passive cooling systems and stuff?" and everyone just kind of stared at me blankly while flooding their yards for some damn reason.


I had a friend move to Las Vegas last year, and I'd always just assumed that it being in the middle of a desert that water would be scarce and would therefore be more expensive.  Turns out I was only half right.  It is scarce, but my friend's water bill is pretty much the exact same every month as it was in Indiana.  Blows the mind.
 
2021-08-13 9:15:46 PM  

Gyrfalcon: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: rolladuck: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Oh, LA is just as farked.

Too bad they don't have any nuclear plants they can use to run a desalination operation.

A far easier fix is to stop growing crops in California deserts.

There's enough water for everybody to drink. It's the stupid amount of water taken to grow cash crops in a desert that's causing the problem.

Where exactly are the cash crops being grown in the California desert?


Here, I'll show you:

Fark user imageView Full Size


The "California desert" is primarily those two large gray counties on the right-hand side of the state. Those are San Bernardino and Inyo counties. Observe that nearly all the irrigated farmland is in the middle of the state. That's the central valley. The central valley is not and has never been "desert". It gets quite a lot of rainfall, and a significant amount of runoff from the Sierras. That pink spot near the angle at the middle of the state is Sacramento, which you may recall was flooded a while back the last time we had floods instead of fires.

There are no "cash crops being grown in the California desert"; there is nothing of significant note being grown out there in the desert. Most of it is range land, dairy ranches, feed lots, and other livestock production. California has lots of water-wasting issues, but please get over this idea that it's a desert wasteland growing corn and wheat in the middle of a Sahara-like wilderness. It's not.
 
2021-08-13 9:19:44 PM  
I thought their plan was to farm dirt.

/Cash crop if there ever was one.
 
2021-08-13 9:28:04 PM  

TWX: Grauenwolf: 100 years ago....

We have a massive river running through our state, lots of sunshine, and plenty of land. This is the perfect place to grow warm weather crops.

Now...

Serves you write for growing crops in the desert. All that water is the property of Los Angles.

California shouldn't be entitled to any more water than it was when the compact was agreed upon.

As for crops, my extended family are farmers in the midwest, and my dad still owns shares in the family farm business.  It seems like something's wrong every year there.  One year it's too dry as it didn't rain enough, another year it's too wet and the seedlings have rotted in the ground, another year it's too hot or too cold.  Insurance ends up paying for crop failures A LOT.

Growing crops through artificial irrigation gives the farmer a large degree of control over soil moisture content.  Farmers can control how much water makes it into the fields, they're not limited to what nature provides.  It would not surprise me if we see more efforts to better target water delivery as means to continue to grow crops in arid climates, allowing less total water usage because it's better delivered.

Obviously existing irrigation techniques are problematic, simply flooding rows of fields isn't sustainable.  But if farmers and engineers can develop better techniques to deliver water to crops where less water continues to result in productive yields then I don't see the practice ending any time soon.  After all, crops fit for harvest are more useful for food security than crop failures due to relying on an ever-changing mother nature.


If you haven't read this, it is the bible as it applies to US water usage and it's future. Published in 1986 and it saw all of this coming.
Fark user imageView Full Size

It precisely spells out how farmers were duped by the US government to go west (the great land grab of 1889) and farm on land that wasn't remotely usable for crops.

It provided a great rule of thumb for area sustainability. If large (20 plus feet) trees exist there naturally, a human can generally survive and thrive there provided that it isn't the thin tree band on the side of a mountain.
 
2021-08-13 9:29:22 PM  
They are exporting a lot of the water they get to China and Saudi Arabia, they just turn it into alfalfa first.

But we can't dare touch the age-old traditions of the hardy alfalfa farmers.
 
2021-08-13 9:32:04 PM  

Grauenwolf: Desalination is stupid. It requires ridiculous amounts of energy compared to what we get out of it.

California coastal cities produce ridiculous amounts of waste water. Treating that and sending it back into the fresh water pipes would cost a fraction of what desalination costs.

"But potty water is icky."

People need to grow up a little and stop focusing on what's cool over what's practical.


Desalinating, after initial construction costs almost nothing. You just have to use really large evaporation ponds/ lakes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar​_​desalination
 
2021-08-13 9:34:03 PM  

baron von doodle: Grauenwolf: Desalination is stupid. It requires ridiculous amounts of energy compared to what we get out of it.

California coastal cities produce ridiculous amounts of waste water. Treating that and sending it back into the fresh water pipes would cost a fraction of what desalination costs.

"But potty water is icky."

People need to grow up a little and stop focusing on what's cool over what's practical.

Desalinating, after initial construction costs almost nothing. You just have to use really large evaporation ponds/ lakes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_​desalination


Make more sense to site it over open water, use solar power to do the evaporating AND pump the fresh water ashore, you don't have mountains of salt to dispose of.
 
2021-08-13 9:35:47 PM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Grauenwolf: 100 years ago....

We have a massive river running through our state, lots of sunshine, and plenty of land. This is the perfect place to grow warm weather crops.

Now...

Serves you write for growing crops in the desert. All that water is the property of Los Angles.

Oh, LA is just as farked.


Oh, Jesus! Will Tom Selleck's almond ranch be okay?
 
2021-08-13 9:43:35 PM  

Mega Steve: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Grauenwolf: 100 years ago....

We have a massive river running through our state, lots of sunshine, and plenty of land. This is the perfect place to grow warm weather crops.

Now...

Serves you write for growing crops in the desert. All that water is the property of Los Angles.

Oh, LA is just as farked.

Oh, Jesus! Will Tom Selleck's almond ranch be okay?


Don't worry. He's got a reverse mortgage on it.
This isn't his first rodeo.
 
2021-08-13 9:47:15 PM  

rolladuck: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Oh, LA is just as farked.

Too bad they don't have any nuclear plants they can use to run a desalination operation.


Because the first thing you want to do is put one on a fault line in a huge city.
 
2021-08-13 9:50:03 PM  

Grauenwolf: Desalination is stupid. It requires ridiculous amounts of energy compared to what we get out of it.

California coastal cities produce ridiculous amounts of waste water. Treating that and sending it back into the fresh water pipes would cost a fraction of what desalination costs.

"But potty water is icky."

People need to grow up a little and stop focusing on what's cool over what's practical.


Chicago, which is located right next to the largest source of freshwater entirely in one nation, also has the largest water reclamation plant in the world. Potty water is fine.
 
2021-08-13 9:52:43 PM  

Grauenwolf: Desalination is stupid. It requires ridiculous amounts of energy compared to what we get out of it.

California coastal cities produce ridiculous amounts of waste water. Treating that and sending it back into the fresh water pipes would cost a fraction of what desalination costs.

"But potty water is icky."

People need to grow up a little and stop focusing on what's cool over what's practical.


Hush and sit in the corner and drink your potty water
 
2021-08-13 9:52:59 PM  
baron von doodle

If you haven't read this, it is the bible as it applies to US water usage and it's future. Published in 1986 and it saw all of this coming.


I have read this book twice.
 
2021-08-13 9:53:52 PM  

Jeff5: baron von doodle: Grauenwolf: Desalination is stupid. It requires ridiculous amounts of energy compared to what we get out of it.

California coastal cities produce ridiculous amounts of waste water. Treating that and sending it back into the fresh water pipes would cost a fraction of what desalination costs.

"But potty water is icky."

People need to grow up a little and stop focusing on what's cool over what's practical.

Desalinating, after initial construction costs almost nothing. You just have to use really large evaporation ponds/ lakes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_​desalination

Make more sense to site it over open water, use solar power to do the evaporating AND pump the fresh water ashore, you don't have mountains of salt to dispose of.


Maybe. I was just pointing out that the base concept is effective and low energy.

To your idea, that would probably create an area of the sea that is unlivable for sea critters. It would also peach out into surrounding areas. Probably better to have the mountain of salt on land.
 
2021-08-13 9:54:09 PM  
Our ancestors didn't call it the Great American Desert for nothing.
 
2021-08-13 9:54:30 PM  

Trainspotr: Grauenwolf: Desalination is stupid. It requires ridiculous amounts of energy compared to what we get out of it.

California coastal cities produce ridiculous amounts of waste water. Treating that and sending it back into the fresh water pipes would cost a fraction of what desalination costs.

"But potty water is icky."

People need to grow up a little and stop focusing on what's cool over what's practical.

Chicago, which is located right next to the largest source of freshwater entirely in one nation, also has the largest water reclamation plant in the world. Potty water is fine.


Yes...but a lot of that is that treaties demand we do that. This is the city that decided why build sewers, we can just turn the river around and send the shiat to St Louis.

\ and in fact we could. And did.
 
2021-08-13 9:54:30 PM  

MarkTimeTire: baron von doodle

If you haven't read this, it is the bible as it applies to US water usage and it's future. Published in 1986 and it saw all of this coming.

I have read this book twice.


Yep. Amazing book.
 
2021-08-13 9:55:03 PM  

baron von doodle: Jeff5: baron von doodle: Grauenwolf: Desalination is stupid. It requires ridiculous amounts of energy compared to what we get out of it.

California coastal cities produce ridiculous amounts of waste water. Treating that and sending it back into the fresh water pipes would cost a fraction of what desalination costs.

"But potty water is icky."

People need to grow up a little and stop focusing on what's cool over what's practical.

Desalinating, after initial construction costs almost nothing. You just have to use really large evaporation ponds/ lakes.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_​desalination

Make more sense to site it over open water, use solar power to do the evaporating AND pump the fresh water ashore, you don't have mountains of salt to dispose of.

Maybe. I was just pointing out that the base concept is effective and low energy.

To your idea, that would probably create an area of the sea that is unlivable for sea critters. It would also peach out into surrounding areas. Probably better to have the mountain of salt on land.


Leach*
 
2021-08-13 9:58:23 PM  

Gyrfalcon: Gyrfalcon: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: rolladuck: I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Oh, LA is just as farked.

Too bad they don't have any nuclear plants they can use to run a desalination operation.

A far easier fix is to stop growing crops in California deserts.

There's enough water for everybody to drink. It's the stupid amount of water taken to grow cash crops in a desert that's causing the problem.

Where exactly are the cash crops being grown in the California desert?

Here, I'll show you:

[Fark user image image 442x512]

The "California desert" is primarily those two large gray counties on the right-hand side of the state. Those are San Bernardino and Inyo counties. Observe that nearly all the irrigated farmland is in the middle of the state. That's the central valley. The central valley is not and has never been "desert". It gets quite a lot of rainfall, and a significant amount of runoff from the Sierras. That pink spot near the angle at the middle of the state is Sacramento, which you may recall was flooded a while back the last time we had floods instead of fires.

There are no "cash crops being grown in the California desert"; there is nothing of significant note being grown out there in the desert. Most of it is range land, dairy ranches, feed lots, and other livestock production. California has lots of water-wasting issues, but please get over this idea that it's a desert wasteland growing corn and wheat in the middle of a Sahara-like wilderness. It's not.


Rainfall in the Central Valley averages 10" to 5" a YEAR.

Which is why all the irrigation is present. Because it's a farking desert.

So, you're lying. When you stop lying we can have a civil conversation. But for now you can't, so fark your lying ass.
 
2021-08-13 9:58:51 PM  

MarkTimeTire: baron von doodle

If you haven't read this, it is the bible as it applies to US water usage and it's future. Published in 1986 and it saw all of this coming.

I have read this book twice.


I really liked that it wasn't a dry read. Tales of exploration and living conditions as it applies to water supply interspersed with raw facts.
 
2021-08-13 10:00:58 PM  

Grauenwolf: Desalination is stupid. It requires ridiculous amounts of energy compared to what we get out of it.

California coastal cities produce ridiculous amounts of waste water. Treating that and sending it back into the fresh water pipes would cost a fraction of what desalination costs.

"But potty water is icky."

People need to grow up a little and stop focusing on what's cool over what's practical.


On a practical note why don't we use gray water for the toilet
 
2021-08-13 10:02:26 PM  

Trainspotr: Grauenwolf: Desalination is stupid. It requires ridiculous amounts of energy compared to what we get out of it.

California coastal cities produce ridiculous amounts of waste water. Treating that and sending it back into the fresh water pipes would cost a fraction of what desalination costs.

"But potty water is icky."

People need to grow up a little and stop focusing on what's cool over what's practical.

Chicago, which is located right next to the largest source of freshwater entirely in one nation, also has the largest water reclamation plant in the world. Potty water is fine.


🤮
 
2021-08-13 10:03:33 PM  

TWX: Grauenwolf: 100 years ago....

We have a massive river running through our state, lots of sunshine, and plenty of land. This is the perfect place to grow warm weather crops.

Now...

Serves you write for growing crops in the desert. All that water is the property of Los Angles.

California shouldn't be entitled to any more water than it was when the compact was agreed upon.

As for crops, my extended family are farmers in the midwest, and my dad still owns shares in the family farm business.  It seems like something's wrong every year there.  One year it's too dry as it didn't rain enough, another year it's too wet and the seedlings have rotted in the ground, another year it's too hot or too cold.  Insurance ends up paying for crop failures A LOT.

Growing crops through artificial irrigation gives the farmer a large degree of control over soil moisture content.  Farmers can control how much water makes it into the fields, they're not limited to what nature provides.  It would not surprise me if we see more efforts to better target water delivery as means to continue to grow crops in arid climates, allowing less total water usage because it's better delivered.

Obviously existing irrigation techniques are problematic, simply flooding rows of fields isn't sustainable.  But if farmers and engineers can develop better techniques to deliver water to crops where less water continues to result in productive yields then I don't see the practice ending any time soon.  After all, crops fit for harvest are more useful for food security than crop failures due to relying on an ever-changing mother nature.


Drip irrigation and hydroponics work very well, not really good for low value crops though.  How much flint corn do we really need?
 
2021-08-13 10:03:45 PM  

austerity101: Neondistraction: Growing crops in Arizona is less absurd than growing grass for golf courses, yet somehow they find the water for a lot of them.

Phoenix has more golf courses per capita than any other city in the world.

The city is full of lawns and fountains.

It's utterly grotesque how much water they waste.


Phoenix should be bulldozed.
 
2021-08-13 10:09:59 PM  

gonegirl: I was feeling sorry for the farmers and started hunting up other articles. Turns out they've had few regulations in AZ for decades (surprise, surprise!)


Surprise, surprise?  Pun intended?
 
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