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(AP News)   This is what happens when you try to grow food in a desert   (apnews.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Colorado River, Arizona, enough water, Water resources, Arizona farmers, water supply, Irrigation, next year  
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5740 clicks; posted to Main » on 12 Aug 2021 at 8:50 AM (16 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-08-12 6:26:46 AM  
Humans have grown food in deserts since the advent of agriculture. It's possible to feed a population living in a desert with the water they find there provided they're growing suitable crops.

Desert agriculture cannot feed the world. That's the problem right there. Expecting to export food out of deserts is insane.
 
2021-08-12 7:00:23 AM  
I have less an issue with farming a desert and more an issue of farming incredibly water heavy foods like almonds in the desert. If you're gonna farm in the desert, farm crops that don't require a small ocean worth of water to maintain
 
2021-08-12 7:13:49 AM  
somedude210:

have less an issue with farming a desert and more an issue of farming incredibly water heavy foods like almonds beef in the desert.

1600 gallons to get a pound of beef to the table, and an absurd amount of CO2 and methane generated. California spends an insane amount of water making cow fodder. Milk is almost as bad. Almonds are a gallon per nut, so ... Bad, but not as bad. Unlike beef, there are ways to optimize water use for almond orchards.

Almonds actually were a crop grown in deserts for millennia. And they were expensive. The problem arises with almonds grown at a quantity for export to the planet. But sure, you're absolutely right, almond trees grow like weeds here in PR, there are better places to grow them even within the USA.

But that of course challenges the very basis of how and to whom we subsidize ag.

To put it a different way, deserts can provide the food for export that is so desired (by a few mega ag corps), the rest of the country needs to send it water and STFU about it. Or, again, just embrace sanity and don't grow food for the world in deserts.
 
2021-08-12 8:00:00 AM  
Have we even considered fully funding those willing to learn farming, giving them land and equipment to do it in arable areas? NOT corporate farms... Like, recently discharged Veterans and lower income people and things like that... "Here, we give you al the stuff and training and you sign a 20-year contract."

Obviously, offer the same incentives to farmers in these areas to move to other places, cover their debts and set them up in new, sustainable places?

I mean... I'm just asking questions here.
 
2021-08-12 8:10:27 AM  
FARM WHERE THE FOOD IS!!!!!!  AUUGHH AUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!
 
2021-08-12 8:50:44 AM  

yohohogreengiant: Desert agriculture cannot feed the world. That's the problem right there. Expecting to export food out of deserts is insane.


To be perfectly fair, the guy was growing corn to turn into ethanol and global warming.  So no real loss.
 
2021-08-12 8:53:42 AM  
And if you over-farm, you can make your own desert.
 
2021-08-12 8:53:57 AM  
It's OK, Mountain Dew is sprayed on them.
 
2021-08-12 8:54:17 AM  
Wasn't the Central Arizona Project originally set up to get water to farms, not the mega cities of Phoenix and Tucson?
 
2021-08-12 8:55:46 AM  
Water? Like from the toilet?
 
2021-08-12 8:55:58 AM  
Farming in a climate that has moderate temperatures year round seems to be a good idea.
Until you add in the need to pump in additional water, and a huge population that also wants to live in a climate that has moderate temperatures year round.
 
2021-08-12 8:56:12 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


/soon...
 
2021-08-12 8:59:19 AM  
i.ytimg.comView Full Size
 
2021-08-12 9:01:03 AM  

somedude210: I have less an issue with farming a desert and more an issue of farming incredibly water heavy foods like almonds in the desert. If you're gonna farm in the desert, farm crops that don't require a small ocean worth of water to maintain


Why haven't we GMO that out at this point?
 
2021-08-12 9:01:20 AM  
Do you see what happens Larry????
 
2021-08-12 9:04:30 AM  

Walker: It's OK, Mountain Dew is sprayed on them.


mountain dew doesn't have a lecture notes
 
2021-08-12 9:05:20 AM  

waxbeans: somedude210: I have less an issue with farming a desert and more an issue of farming incredibly water heavy foods like almonds in the desert. If you're gonna farm in the desert, farm crops that don't require a small ocean worth of water to maintain

Why haven't we GMO that out at this point?


We were waiting for you to do it.  Aren't you finished yet??
 
2021-08-12 9:06:39 AM  

Walker: It's OK, Mountain Dew is sprayed on them.


Shoulda used Brawndo!  It's got 'lectrolytes!
 
2021-08-12 9:06:57 AM  
Wish we could send them some of ours. We are absolutely inundated with the stuff/

/Michigan where it's rained pretty much all farking summer and all the lake levels are crazy high.
 
2021-08-12 9:08:15 AM  
Sam Kinison desert edit
Youtube wAgUICswZuY
 
2021-08-12 9:10:34 AM  
I am okay with irrigating the desert.  But let's give farmers a fund to massively increase their watering efficiency. Yes, I know that's socialism or something, but it needs done.  Most of the water they use, just goes to waste.
 
2021-08-12 9:10:39 AM  

yohohogreengiant: Humans have grown food in deserts since the advent of agriculture. It's possible to feed a population living in a desert with the water they find there provided they're growing suitable crops.

Desert agriculture cannot feed the world. That's the problem right there. Expecting to export food out of deserts is insane.


People forget that until the Haber process that made the creation of ammonia, and therefore fertilizer possible, even the most advanced industrial societies in Europe struggled to feed their own populations.  The world just wasn't set up to support the kind of human popularions we now have and it's only  rechnology on an advanced scale that makes them possible
 
2021-08-12 9:14:33 AM  

NewportBarGuy: Have we even considered fully funding those willing to learn farming, giving them land and equipment to do it in arable areas? NOT corporate farms... Like, recently discharged Veterans and lower income people and things like that... "Here, we give you al the stuff and training and you sign a 20-year contract."

Obviously, offer the same incentives to farmers in these areas to move to other places, cover their debts and set them up in new, sustainable places?

I mean... I'm just asking questions here.


The sticky part is the "giving them land" bit.

The vast majority of public lands held by the Feds and the States are here in the west...these lands are still public at this point because they suck for ag.  There just isn't the water.
 
2021-08-12 9:15:10 AM  

yohohogreengiant: somedude210:

have less an issue with farming a desert and more an issue of farming incredibly water heavy foods like almonds beef in the desert.

1600 gallons to get a pound of beef to the table, and an absurd amount of CO2 and methane generated. California spends an insane amount of water making cow fodder. Milk is almost as bad. Almonds are a gallon per nut, so ... Bad, but not as bad. Unlike beef, there are ways to optimize water use for almond orchards.

Almonds actually were a crop grown in deserts for millennia. And they were expensive. The problem arises with almonds grown at a quantity for export to the planet. But sure, you're absolutely right, almond trees grow like weeds here in PR, there are better places to grow them even within the USA.

But that of course challenges the very basis of how and to whom we subsidize ag.

To put it a different way, deserts can provide the food for export that is so desired (by a few mega ag corps), the rest of the country needs to send it water and STFU about it. Or, again, just embrace sanity and don't grow food for the world in deserts.


That 1600 gallons a pound for meat is an absurd exaggeration invented by Peta to promote Veganism, which can be just as damaging, if not more so to the environment as meat consumption   because while meat is an efficent way of turning non-edible plants like grass into food, getting sufficient calories and especially protein from plant sources requires monoculture agriculture on a massive scale
 
2021-08-12 9:15:44 AM  
That is because they got the wrong people to do it, should've called these dudes:

64.media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2021-08-12 9:15:50 AM  

elvisaintdead: FARM WHERE THE FOOD IS!!!!!!  AUUGHH AUGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!


Putting a farm in the McDonald's poses a logistics issue, and makes getting my morning coffee a chore. I suggest you put farms in wet climates instead
 
2021-08-12 9:17:18 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


Someone should write a country song about this.
 
2021-08-12 9:17:19 AM  

NewportBarGuy: Have we even considered fully funding those willing to learn farming, giving them land and equipment to do it in arable areas? NOT corporate farms... Like, recently discharged Veterans and lower income people and things like that... "Here, we give you al the stuff and training and you sign a 20-year contract."

Obviously, offer the same incentives to farmers in these areas to move to other places, cover their debts and set them up in new, sustainable places?

I mean... I'm just asking questions here.


That's part of what the USDA does with low income loans and the like, the problem was that until very recently there was a "Whites Only \" sign hanging in the Department's metaphorical storefront window
 
2021-08-12 9:17:32 AM  

somedude210: I have less an issue with farming a desert and more an issue of farming incredibly water heavy foods like almonds in the desert. If you're gonna farm in the desert, farm crops that don't require a small ocean worth of water to maintain


Like sorghum. I'm growing Tennessee Tall sorghum in the Connecticut river valley because it is so drought resistant. We're out of our drought for now, but I'm ready for the next one.
 
2021-08-12 9:18:16 AM  

Gramma: Wish we could send them some of ours. We are absolutely inundated with the stuff/

/Michigan where it's rained pretty much all farking summer and all the lake levels are crazy high.


A couple of high years is not a reason to even consider the possibility of maybe ever giving a single farking drop of our water to the southwest.
 
2021-08-12 9:22:13 AM  
The guy in TFA has 6000 acres of land, and millions in equipment. Even if that land is insanely cheap at 5k an acre, he's worth well into the 30 million range.

So when you write the article to make it sound like he's hard scrabble salt of the earth, with his office being "an old pickup truck", you can get bent. Dude is wealthy, comes from a wealthy family, and has received more welfare than most inner city projects.

Water or no water, he and his family are still rich and will be just fine.
 
2021-08-12 9:23:12 AM  
Because the corn/Soy/Wheat rotation is farking stupid, and only 'profitable' because farmers get welfare for crops.

Stop growing food to feed animals, start growing it to feed people.
 
2021-08-12 9:25:31 AM  
thumbs-prod.si-cdn.comView Full Size


Events tend to recur in cycles
-- W Clement Stone
 
2021-08-12 9:26:03 AM  

Walker: It's OK, Mountain Dew is sprayed on them.


It's what plants crave. It's got electrolytes.
 
2021-08-12 9:27:37 AM  
What I love about America is when science, nature, the weather, Almighty God and common sense says "Cant do that" we say "Suck my dick".

Vietnam, the war on drugs, Kevin James, childhood obesity, steroids in baseball. These are all horrible, soul shattering failures that were, eventually, hammered into victories despite all rational information.
 
2021-08-12 9:29:31 AM  

Private_Citizen: The guy in TFA has 6000 acres of land, and millions in equipment. Even if that land is insanely cheap at 5k an acre, he's worth well into the 30 million range.

So when you write the article to make it sound like he's hard scrabble salt of the earth, with his office being "an old pickup truck", you can get bent. Dude is wealthy, comes from a wealthy family, and has received more welfare than most inner city projects.

Water or no water, he and his family are still rich and will be just fine.


And he didn't plant all of 400 acres of that 6000. BFD.
 
2021-08-12 9:30:35 AM  

Magorn: yohohogreengiant:The world just wasn't set up to support the kind of human popularions we now have


Popularions is definitely going into my dictionary for future use.
I thank you for this :)
 
2021-08-12 9:31:57 AM  

Bonzo_1116: NewportBarGuy: Have we even considered fully funding those willing to learn farming, giving them land and equipment to do it in arable areas? NOT corporate farms... Like, recently discharged Veterans and lower income people and things like that... "Here, we give you al the stuff and training and you sign a 20-year contract."

Obviously, offer the same incentives to farmers in these areas to move to other places, cover their debts and set them up in new, sustainable places?

I mean... I'm just asking questions here.

The sticky part is the "giving them land" bit.

The vast majority of public lands held by the Feds and the States are here in the west...these lands are still public at this point because they suck for ag.  There just isn't the water.


True... Very true. I don't have any answers... Just trying to figure out how to fix the problem and keep the food supply stable. I remember many a trip to Cali driving past farms for milessssssssssssssssss and miles. We definitely need to come up with something.
 
2021-08-12 9:33:53 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-08-12 9:34:26 AM  

Magorn: NewportBarGuy: Have we even considered fully funding those willing to learn farming, giving them land and equipment to do it in arable areas? NOT corporate farms... Like, recently discharged Veterans and lower income people and things like that... "Here, we give you al the stuff and training and you sign a 20-year contract."

Obviously, offer the same incentives to farmers in these areas to move to other places, cover their debts and set them up in new, sustainable places?

I mean... I'm just asking questions here.

That's part of what the USDA does with low income loans and the like, the problem was that until very recently there was a "Whites Only \" sign hanging in the Department's metaphorical storefront window


😂 racism isn't free guys. Enjoy.
 
2021-08-12 9:35:08 AM  

Gramma: Wish we could send them some of ours. We are absolutely inundated with the stuff/

/Michigan where it's rained pretty much all farking summer and all the lake levels are crazy high.


I know a pipeline from the Great Lakes to the west would be expensive, but it seems like a workable plan.  However, replenishing the aquafers is what's really required, and that requires rain and time.
 
2021-08-12 9:39:17 AM  
If you need more water to grow stuff than falls out of the sky there, you are growing stuff in the wrong place.

Is this not farking obvious people?!
 
2021-08-12 9:40:15 AM  

NewportBarGuy: Just trying to figure out how to fix the problem and keep the food supply stable. I remember many a trip to Cali driving past farms for milessssssssssssssssss and miles. We definitely need to come up with something.


No more meat.

There, I solved the problem. Oh, people want to eat meat anyway? Ok, provide no economic support at any point in the supply chain for meat. Let it get expensive enough to include its true cost.

Or don't. I don't have kids and if those who do aren't interested in leaving theirs a good world, I'm not either.

/I still bet I use less resources than most Americans.
 
2021-08-12 9:41:30 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-08-12 9:43:57 AM  

Smackledorfer: NewportBarGuy: Just trying to figure out how to fix the problem and keep the food supply stable. I remember many a trip to Cali driving past farms for milessssssssssssssssss and miles. We definitely need to come up with something.

No more meat.

There, I solved the problem. Oh, people want to eat meat anyway? Ok, provide no economic support at any point in the supply chain for meat. Let it get expensive enough to include its true cost.

Or don't. I don't have kids and if those who do aren't interested in leaving theirs a good world, I'm not either.

/I still bet I use less resources than most Americans.


that was a republican talking point against the green new deal
"liberals are coming to ban your burgers"

no problem in this country can ever be fixed if, instead, it can be made into a wedge issue by republicans.
 
2021-08-12 9:44:35 AM  

indy_kid: I know a pipeline from the Great Lakes to the west would be expensive, but it seems like a workable plan.


How do you figure funnelling an assload of water to a desert isn't going to shiat all over the ecosystem you take it from?
 
2021-08-12 9:45:37 AM  
But ... It is flat and cheap land and there is so much sun. Just the one tiny problem.
 
2021-08-12 9:46:00 AM  

Private_Citizen: The guy in TFA has 6000 acres of land, and millions in equipment. Even if that land is insanely cheap at 5k an acre, he's worth well into the 30 million range.

So when you write the article to make it sound like he's hard scrabble salt of the earth, with his office being "an old pickup truck", you can get bent. Dude is wealthy, comes from a wealthy family, and has received more welfare than most inner city projects.

Water or no water, he and his family are still rich and will be just fine.


I wish I could give this 1000 smarts.  Well done.
 
2021-08-12 9:47:14 AM  
Michigan has seen absolutely crazy amounts of rain.  In fact, it is raining right now.  It is the greenest August in my memory.  If it wasn't for the fact that we have a high of 91 today, it would feel more like Spring out there.  My parents live 50 miles north of Detroit and a local farmer uses their back fields to grow crops.  The soybeans this year are taller than I have ever seen them.  When the deer are out there, you often only see their neck and head!

My one pet peeve is how we treat the Great Lakes.  People dump too much in there, I go to beaches and you see stuff floating in the water all the time, plastic bags, plastic bottles, etc.  Not to mention runoff from fertilizer on rich people's lawns.  We should be treating all that fresh water like gold.  And instead of building a pipeline, how about moving more farmers to areas around the Great Lakes?  It makes no sense to ship water to places like Arizona.
 
2021-08-12 9:47:26 AM  

Smackledorfer: NewportBarGuy: Just trying to figure out how to fix the problem and keep the food supply stable. I remember many a trip to Cali driving past farms for milessssssssssssssssss and miles. We definitely need to come up with something.

No more meat.

There, I solved the problem. Oh, people want to eat meat anyway? Ok, provide no economic support at any point in the supply chain for meat. Let it get expensive enough to include its true cost.

Or don't. I don't have kids and if those who do aren't interested in leaving theirs a good world, I'm not either.

/I still bet I use less resources than most Americans.


Has it been grazing on a pot farm or something?  Because your horse is high as fark.
 
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