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(Forbes)   Anti-vaxxer in Subby's life is claiming "even leftist media outlets NPR and NBC" are reporting studies proving the vaccines are *causing* Covid variants. Subby can find no such stories. Can y'all?   (forbes.com) divider line
    More: Sick, Johns Hopkins University, Vaccination, Delta variant of the Covid-19 coronavirus, Public health, Carey Business School, Vaccine, Covid-19 vaccines, World Health Organization  
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229 clicks; posted to Discussion » on 11 Aug 2021 at 8:50 AM (16 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



60 Comments     (+0 »)
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2021-08-11 6:25:14 AM  
Time for some life changes, subby.

You can't pick your own family, but there may be a time to move on.
 
2021-08-11 7:02:07 AM  
All I can find on NPR is tiny desk concerts featuring indigenous pan flute bands.  Those probably spread covid variants what with all being packed into a tiny desk and blowing into their pan flutes.
 
2021-08-11 7:08:19 AM  
No such story exists. Your anti-vaxxer is probably just repeating some lie they got fed by the derp-o-sphere.
 
2021-08-11 7:14:29 AM  
The; burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. Tell your shiatty friend to produce articles or STFU.
 
2021-08-11 7:34:12 AM  
That is not how this works.
If I tell you the moon is made of cheese, it's not your arrange for us to fly to the moon where we can dig anywhere I tell you to prove it. It's my job to present you with peer reviewed works that show it's made of a fine provolone.

If they have nothing but stories in their head:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-08-11 7:35:01 AM  
Your friend sounds like they've been using Facebook.
 
2021-08-11 7:37:02 AM  
If presenting facts to anti-vaxxers helped them reconsider their lunacy there wouldn't be any anti-vaxxers in the first place.
 
2021-08-11 7:57:40 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Your friend sounds like they've been using Facebook.


But all their stuff is pier reviewed.
 
2021-08-11 8:09:04 AM  
Joe Rogan.
 
2021-08-11 8:11:08 AM  
I mean... I didn't check NBC, farking bullshiat libruls, but I've been told it is all over the news.
 
2021-08-11 8:15:10 AM  
Tucker Carlson is not your friend, Subby.
 
2021-08-11 8:31:20 AM  
People are reading VAERS. Which is self reported and not designed for that kind of use. It even says so right on their website
 
2021-08-11 8:54:34 AM  

From Philly to Boston: That is not how this works.
If I tell you the moon is made of cheese, it's not your arrange for us to fly to the moon where we can dig anywhere I tell you to prove it. It's my job to present you with peer reviewed works that show it's made of a fine provolone.

If they have nothing but stories in their head:
[Fark user image 500x349]


We all know the moon isn't made of cheese.  But what if it was made of barbecue spare ribs.  Would you eat it then?
 
2021-08-11 9:00:01 AM  
If a virus has no host, it cannot mutate.
Vaccines remove the capacity to host.
Conclusion: Vaccines cause mutations.
Narrator: The education system has failed.  Everyone go home.
 
2021-08-11 9:00:05 AM  

Rapmaster2000: From Philly to Boston: That is not how this works.
If I tell you the moon is made of cheese, it's not your arrange for us to fly to the moon where we can dig anywhere I tell you to prove it. It's my job to present you with peer reviewed works that show it's made of a fine provolone.

If they have nothing but stories in their head:
[Fark user image 500x349]

We all know the moon isn't made of cheese.  But what if it was made of barbecue spare ribs.  Would you eat it then?


It's a simple question...
 
2021-08-11 9:03:23 AM  
c.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2021-08-11 9:07:46 AM  

Rapmaster2000: From Philly to Boston: That is not how this works.
If I tell you the moon is made of cheese, it's not your arrange for us to fly to the moon where we can dig anywhere I tell you to prove it. It's my job to present you with peer reviewed works that show it's made of a fine provolone.

If they have nothing but stories in their head:
[Fark user image 500x349]

We all know the moon isn't made of cheese.  But what if it was made of barbecue spare ribs.  Would you eat it then?


Oh....so you've bought into the lies..... sheeple.
 
2021-08-11 9:08:18 AM  
Subby actually thought such a story existed, and spent time looking for it?

The correct response is to ask your idiot friend or family member for a link, so you can either point and laugh when it's exclusively an unsourced Facebook post from some rando, or you can point and laugh when they can't even provide that.
 
2021-08-11 9:10:26 AM  
If your friend thinks NPR and NBC are "leftist" he doesn't know what the word "leftist" means.
 
2021-08-11 9:10:44 AM  
Your friend is an idiot plague rat that should be driven from human society.
 
2021-08-11 9:13:54 AM  

Gubbo: People are reading VAERS. Which is self reported and not designed for that kind of use. It even says so right on their website


Subby's description makes it sound like an argument that the vaccines are causing antibody dependent enhancement.

Which is equally stupid, because that'd mean you'd see vaccinated patients hospitalized in worse shape than those who are not.
 
2021-08-11 9:25:02 AM  

BMFPitt: Subby actually thought such a story existed, and spent time looking for it?

The correct response is to ask your idiot friend or family member for a link, so you can either point and laugh when it's exclusively an unsourced Facebook post from some rando, or you can point and laugh when they can't even provide that.


What if it's a 70 minute YouTube video
 
2021-08-11 9:27:38 AM  
I've heard that from morons around here (Houston) as well.  The problem is that they are hooking even bigger morons who are not political.  My BIL is like this - he claims a friend who is a "paramedic" who said every covid related patient he picks up is suffering from the vaccine.  He's not talking to my wife because she called him a moron.
 
2021-08-11 9:28:50 AM  
If 10,000 people go to a concert, and half of them are vaccinated with a vaccine that is 100% effective against the original strain but ineffective against a modified strain,

and if 10 people show up to the concert infectious with the original strain,
and another 10 people show up with modified strain,

the unvaccinated people will have an approximately equal chance of catching either strain

the vaccinated people will be immune to the original strain but can catch the modified strain,

Say each infected person exposes 10 people.

Thus the 10 with the original will expose 50 vaccinated and 50 unvaccinated people infecting 50 unvaccinated people for 50 new cases of the original.

The 10 with the modified strain will expose 50 vaccinated and 50 unvaccinated people infecting 50 unvaccinated and 50 unvaccinated people with the modified strain.

The frequency of the two variants was 1:1 going into the concert but it is now 1:2 going out.

So a vaccine can effect the relative frequency of the virus in circulation.

However, this doesn't mean the vaccine causes mutant forms to happen.

Furthermore, if nobody at that concert was vaccinated, while the frequency of variants in infected people leaving would remain 1:1, 200 people would leave infected rather than 150, and that's a bad thing.

Short version, vaccines can help us exterminate some flavors of the virus, which is good. Once the virus is exterminated, it can't produce new forms. And along the way, it can decrease the total number of infections which also proportionally decreases the amount of new forms arising. That's good.

As a last note, the immunity from a vaccine is not significantly different from the immunity from natural infection respective to whether or not new variants will be successful at evading the immunity. Thus whatever effects exist in vaccines helping increase the relative frequency of a variant also exist in those who acquire natural immunity from being infected. However as in those cases vaccine based immunity, the virus doesn't use that person as a host to infect others, it is overwhelmingly a net positive.
 
2021-08-11 9:29:53 AM  

Gubbo: What if it's a 70 minute YouTube video


Then it is still not the thing which was claimed.

And 70 minutes is way too long to waste to debunking it point by point, since the person is impervious to facts, anyway.
 
2021-08-11 9:29:57 AM  
I remember there was this scam credit company that were basically quasi-legal loan sharks. Several press outlets did various investigative pieces on them, basically laying out that they're crooks operating a legal grey area. Soon after, this credit company's ads prominently featured "AS SEEN ON MSNBC AND FOX NEWS". Now to the dullard, this lends them an air of credibility. Anyone willing to do about 5 seconds of research would find the circumstance that lead them to be featured on the news.

It's entirely possible this person just reads anti-vaxx nonsense exclusively, and that "media" will always try to drift on the credibility of others. Just mention that NPR reported on it, and that's what sticks in the mind of the dullard. They're never going to actually look for or read anything from NPR.

So either this person is dumb and lazy, or you've just discovered that this person is a liar that only argues in bad faith. This person thinks of you as an idiot.
 
2021-08-11 9:34:40 AM  

wademh: As a last note, the immunity from a vaccine is not significantly different from the immunity from natural infection respective to whether or not new variants will be successful at evading the immunity. Thus whatever effects exist in vaccines helping increase the relative frequency of a variant also exist in those who acquire natural immunity from being infected. However as in those cases vaccine based immunity, the virus doesn't use that person as a host to infect others, it is overwhelmingly a net positive.


On this last note, the vaccine is better than natural immunity because it uses the spike protein which rarely mutates (since it is critical to the way the virus functions.)  Natural immunity could target any number of parts of the virus that may mutate more often.

My analogy is that it is like using a photograph vs. a police sketch.
 
2021-08-11 9:42:33 AM  

Marcus Aurelius: Your friend sounds like they've been using Facebook.


I got into a twitter argument with some guy that claimed the vaccines were giving everyone that took them Myocarditis. I asked him to send links to studies where he was getting his information and he sent me a link to gofundme and told me to search and I would see all the cases.

Fark user imageView Full Size



The "I don't have time to educate you, do your own research" type answer is typical of stupid people that believe stupid things.
 
2021-08-11 9:45:33 AM  

Gubbo: People are reading VAERS. Which is self reported and not designed for that kind of use. It even says so right on their website


There's a story floating around that, to prove a point, a doctor submitted a report that a vaccine turned him into the Incredible Hulk. It was accepted and published, but the maintainers convinced him to retract it, so unfortunately it's not possible to verify the story.
 
2021-08-11 9:46:33 AM  

abhorrent1: Marcus Aurelius: Your friend sounds like they've been using Facebook.

I got into a twitter argument with some guy that claimed the vaccines were giving everyone that took them Myocarditis. I asked him to send links to studies where he was getting his information and he sent me a link to gofundme and told me to search and I would see all the cases.

[Fark user image 495x281]


The "I don't have time to educate you, do your own research" type answer is typical of stupid people that believe stupid things.


A gofundme page? So he's obviously grifting.

At least, obvious to all but anti-vaxxers.
 
2021-08-11 9:48:56 AM  
It's not on you to find made up sources.  It's on them to provide them to you.
 
2021-08-11 9:53:40 AM  

BMFPitt: wademh: As a last note, the immunity from a vaccine is not significantly different from the immunity from natural infection respective to whether or not new variants will be successful at evading the immunity. Thus whatever effects exist in vaccines helping increase the relative frequency of a variant also exist in those who acquire natural immunity from being infected. However as in those cases vaccine based immunity, the virus doesn't use that person as a host to infect others, it is overwhelmingly a net positive.

On this last note, the vaccine is better than natural immunity because it uses the spike protein which rarely mutates (since it is critical to the way the virus functions.)  Natural immunity could target any number of parts of the virus that may mutate more often.

My analogy is that it is like using a photograph vs. a police sketch.


You are absolutely correct about the finer details but it is subtle in as much as we have reason to focus on neutralizing antibodies and most of the neutralizing antibodies from natural infection are anti-spike. One of the reasons that we were able to develop this vaccine so quickly is that we had already worked out both the biology of coronaviruses, and the disease specific immune response to corona virus infections. In essence, we knew to target the spike protein, and in particular the receptor binding domain of the Spike protein.

Another distinction of vaccination based immunity is that it tends to produce a more consistent T cell response meaning that the vast majority of vaccinated people develop a robust T cell based immunity while in natural infection there's a broad range of responses observed including nearly absent T cell memory immunity.
 
2021-08-11 10:11:06 AM  

aimtastic: The; burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. Tell your shiatty friend to produce articles or STFU.


"I'm not going to do your research for you"
 
2021-08-11 10:19:50 AM  

abhorrent1: The "I don't have time to educate you, do your own research" type answer is typical of stupid people that believe stupid things.



There's a Bo Burnham Gif For That, featuring Socko.
 
2021-08-11 10:26:45 AM  

aimtastic: The; burden of proof lies with the one making the claim. Tell your shiatty friend to produce articles or STFU.


That right there.  My parents pull this bullshiat all the damn time.  I cut them off with "Send me the article."

They were stunned the first time I did it and asked for my reasoning.  "I want to see what evidence you found that was sufficiently compelling to get you to dismiss medical consensus."

They've never provided any of their sources.

They're also convinced there's a "war on christmas", that covid is "just the flu" and doesn't necessitate safety measures but somehow is also a dangerous biological weapon manufactured by china, and a bunch of other stupidity.  It's easiest to just interact with them as little as possible.
 
2021-08-11 10:47:34 AM  
My sunburn causes the dawn
 
2021-08-11 11:10:27 AM  
just go back to this informative thread , and when they're done reading, push the pillow down firmly
 
2021-08-11 11:11:07 AM  

Rapmaster2000: From Philly to Boston: That is not how this works.
If I tell you the moon is made of cheese, it's not your arrange for us to fly to the moon where we can dig anywhere I tell you to prove it. It's my job to present you with peer reviewed works that show it's made of a fine provolone.

If they have nothing but stories in their head:
[Fark user image 500x349]

We all know the moon isn't made of cheese.  But what if it was made of barbecue spare ribs.  Would you eat it then?


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-08-11 11:26:32 AM  

abhorrent1: he sent me a link to gofundme and told me to search and I would see all the cases.


Go Fund Me is not a medical website and does not feature any legitimate patient diagnosis from physicians.
 
2021-08-11 11:27:57 AM  

Rapmaster2000: We all know the moon isn't made of cheese. But what if it was made of barbecue spare ribs. Would you eat it then?


fark ya, I'm an American. I would eat the shiat of that planetoid.
 
2021-08-11 11:32:28 AM  

Somacandra: abhorrent1: he sent me a link to gofundme and told me to search and I would see all the cases.

Go Fund Me is not a medical website and does not feature any legitimate patient diagnosis from physicians.


This makes me ponder the ethics and legal ramifications of starting a Go Fund Me about how the vaccine turned me into a newt.
 
2021-08-11 11:53:12 AM  

BMFPitt: Somacandra: abhorrent1: he sent me a link to gofundme and told me to search and I would see all the cases.

Go Fund Me is not a medical website and does not feature any legitimate patient diagnosis from physicians.

This makes me ponder the ethics and legal ramifications of starting a Go Fund Me about how the vaccine turned me into a newt.


Did you get better?
 
2021-08-11 11:53:59 AM  
Why do you have an anti-vaxxer in your life?
 
2021-08-11 12:09:50 PM  
He could just be really farking stupid, we already knew that.. I mean like really, really farking stupid.

I bet they keep hearing on the news about variance and the possibility of more variance and this is because of the unvaccinated.

And that's it keyword vaccinated or unvaccinated. Therefore the vaccine is the problem.

Personally I'd take a tone that demeans him and explain how this all works, while I look at him like a farking dog that's been eating it's own shiat.
 
2021-08-11 12:51:43 PM  

Somacandra: abhorrent1: he sent me a link to gofundme and told me to search and I would see all the cases.

Go Fund Me is not a medical website and does not feature any legitimate patient diagnosis from physicians.


I'm aware. But there are apparently people out there, a lot of them, like that guy and subby's friend. Facebook memes and an anecdotal story from that one guy on gofundme appears to be good enough for them.
 
2021-08-11 1:07:06 PM  
I do remember one report that could be mis-construed...  A scientist said something to the effect of: if I were to set up an environment where a vaccine busting mutation developed, I'd vaccinate half the population and let the virus circulate among the other half of the population.

They were literally ENCOURAGING vaccination but it is kind of a vaccination/mutation relationship.
 
2021-08-11 1:19:53 PM  

kpaxoid: If a virus has no host, it cannot mutate.
Vaccines remove the capacity to host.
Conclusion: Vaccines cause mutations.
Narrator: The education system has failed been sabotaged.  Everyone go home.


FTFY
 
2021-08-11 1:30:41 PM  
NBC is leftist? I guess when you're that far right, actual leftists are over the horizon line, so you don't know they exist.
 
2021-08-11 1:48:08 PM  
 
2021-08-11 4:00:39 PM  
I think this mostly happened by accident, but the derposphere seems to have gone through the following process:

1. "Don't watch the filthy MSM! They're not telling me what I want to hear, so it must all be false!"

2. "FOX asked why isn't the MSM reporting such-and-such, and they're right! Why aren't they reporting it? No I don't know what they're reporting, I already told you that I don't watch them!"

3. "A chain email told me that even the filthy MSM is admitting now that the vaccines are CAUSING coronavirus!"
 
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