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(Onion AV Club)   The Last Jedi was a masterpiece in trolling   (avclub.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Star Wars, Star Wars Episode IV: A New Hope, Jedi, Star Wars Episode V: The Empire Strikes Back, Star Wars Episode III: Revenge of the Sith, Anakin Skywalker, Yoda, Obi-Wan Kenobi  
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2909 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 08 Aug 2021 at 5:50 AM (24 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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FNG [TotalFark]
2021-08-08 12:40:59 AM  
I can't believe I the whole thing.  Would not whole again.

Someone got paid to write that nonsensical tangent-mobile.
 
2021-08-08 1:08:10 AM  
Poorly conceived article about a poorly conceived movie.
Somehow appropriate.
 
2021-08-08 1:57:04 AM  
Hot take. I liked it except the casino planet timewaster.
 
2021-08-08 2:42:53 AM  
'Someone wrote a rough draft of a script.  Let's use it as is!'
 
2021-08-08 3:43:23 AM  
Honestly all of Star Wars prequel/postgre swordfight choreography is crap. Darth Maul with a two-bladed staff more likely to cut his own legs off than wound the enemy; pointless jumping and twisting because it looks cool and that actor was super acrobatic.

So Princess Leia flying in a vacuum in space is just more of the same.  Nothing makes sense.  Lucas made $4 billion and Di$ney has made that back and more.  Here's a take on the finale of this grand space opera.  It was bad.


Oh no! The Rise of Skywalker was real bad :(
Youtube GErIPKjwuDg
 
2021-08-08 4:14:24 AM  
It was forgettable. Which is the worst thing you can say about any movie.
 
2021-08-08 4:17:50 AM  

gopher321: It was forgettable. Which is the worst thing you can say about any movie.


I thought 7 was forgettable, 8 had some memorable moments but overall a bad script, and just skipped 9 outright.
 
2021-08-08 6:27:27 AM  
I liked the new trilogy. It had its problems, but STILL Star Wars. Space wizards with laser swords.

/ and there wasn't any high politics
 
2021-08-08 6:30:37 AM  
Oh, this again

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-08-08 6:42:48 AM  
I feel like the only reason people pretend 8 is the best of the sequels is because the middle movie of a trilogy doesn't have to make sense.
 
2021-08-08 6:53:35 AM  
I will say that they REALLY messed up by not continuing the Rey / Finn thing and putting her with Kyle (Kylo Ren) because reasons.
 
2021-08-08 7:08:52 AM  
Competing visions makes for incoherence and missed opportunities.

/SW definitely needed a "Feige"
//Still haven't seen the 3rd film, as with the "ROS" and "ROJ" (the last of the trilogy in all
of the trilogies are always the worst)
/// I don't know if SW is any worse than the DCEU, but, I have no interest in anything
related to "Star Wars".
 
2021-08-08 7:09:34 AM  
It was on TNT yesterday, I watched most of it again, I enjoyed most of it again.
 
2021-08-08 7:35:53 AM  
Isn't this the movie that was rewritten to appease the toxic fans that the first sequel disappointed?

Turns out they didn't want "different" as much as "male protagonist."

See: everything in nerd culture.
 
2021-08-08 7:45:23 AM  
The Wine Tasting
Youtube 5S4Ss5bK-ws
 
2021-08-08 7:59:04 AM  
It's the best of the new trilogy if you wanted Star Wars to grow, evolve, and be a wider universe. It's the worst if you want your space aristocrats and inherited positions of authority.

At the very least, they should have kept with the idea that you don't have to be from one specific bloodline to be powerful. The Force can be powerful in anyone. The fact we're still cheering on bloodlines being the deciding factor on who should rule is... Troubling.
 
2021-08-08 8:06:23 AM  

NathanAllen: Isn't this the movie that was rewritten to appease the toxic fans that the first sequel disappointed?

Turns out they didn't want "different" as much as "male protagonist."

See: everything in nerd culture.


I don't case how sexist you are or woke you are... The gender of the protagonist isn't on the top 25 of things wrong with those 3 movies. I consume a lot of content about movie narratives, including why the music was misused in the prequels and completely misused in the sequels.

Now maybe I make better decisions about where I go online and avoiding social media shields me from this, but I've seen a lot of people here make your claim about why why people hate it... But I've never seen that be from someone who thinks that. Only from people like you.

I have however seen a lot about the failed narrative, the continuity, the lack of overall direction, the cheapness of the characters (Snoke being a throwaway, bringing back the emperor, etc), the pacing, the abuse of the music, the lack of follow through, the terrible character development, the First Order just being Nazi stand-in v2, and dozens of other reasons. The gender of the protagonist is up there with costume design as a reason I've never actual heard or even heard implied.

You guys need to stop generalizing your asshole friend on Facebook's posts as having any bearing at all on what other people outside of your asshole friend think.

Where do you even see this kind of screed?
 
2021-08-08 8:10:54 AM  

Dr. DJ Duckhunt: Hot take. I liked it except the casino planet timewaster.


.....I loved TFAReally liked TLJ, but I agree the casino planet part wasn't necessary.

(WARNING:  Possible spoilers to follow)


On the other hand....I only saw TRoS for the first time about a month ago....and when it was over, I looked at Mrs. Coast and asked, "I waited forty-four years for that???"

There are some wonderful, wonderful moments in TRoS; that cannot be denied - Han's conversation with Kylo, Leia's passing, - were absolutely worthy of the original trilogy.  The rest of it was, indeed, a hot mess that didn't leave me angry as much as it left me disappointed.  So much could have been done...and was just left off.

/We had just finished watching The Mandalorian a few weeks before that, and I'm wondering if it simply didn't spoil me
 
2021-08-08 8:17:32 AM  
There was no overall plan for the sequel trilogy, except to repeat the beats of the original films. So why not say "fark it" and try to do something new?
 
2021-08-08 8:19:37 AM  

gopher321: It was forgettable. Which is the worst thing you can say about any movie.


Right, it was forgettable. That's why everyone keeps talking about it.
 
2021-08-08 8:19:50 AM  
I may be in the minority, but I enjoyed 85% of The Last Jedi.

I can tolerate the horse-racing planet scenes. Rose and Finn had great chemistry, and the hacker explaining that the galaxy far far away is a lot more morally grey than it seems is an interesting take.

The scenes with Grumpy Old Fart Luke were believable. If I was seen as this great hero, but I couldn't even save my own nephew, I'd probably go into self-imposed exile too.

3/4 of the scenes where Rian looked at the "ooh, it's a mystery" moments that JJ wrote into the Force Awakens and says "Nah, we don't need that" were good. 3PO's red arm, not critical to the plot. Ren telling Rey that her family was a bunch of nobodies that traded her for fuel and water?  That part is not great.

Ren killing Snoke? I liked that bit. Ren and Rey back to back killing Snoke's bodyguards? A fun little fight scene with enjoyable choreography. Ren unloading all his firepower on Luke, only for Master Skywalker to casually step out of the cloud and dust off his shoulder? Absolutely badass.

I enjoyed that the overall message of the movie was "Let's not cling to the stories of the past. There are new adventures and new heroes to follow as the story turns the page into another chapter."

The points that I didn't like were the points where the storytelling verged from explaining why Ren became a war criminal to justifying it. Where Poe went from being hotshot pilot that genuinely respects people to being so far up his own ass that he needs two tauntauns to pull himself out.

Was The Last Jedi a great Star Wars movie? No, but it was good, and a far deal better than Rise of the Skywalker. You can even see it in the actors' faces during the press junkets. In Last Jedi, they're laughing with each other, talking about their favorite scenes, and wondering what's going to happen next for their characters. The press junket for Rise of the Skywalker felt like a combination between a prisoner propaganda video and the Marshawn Lynch's "I'm just here so I don't get fined."
 
2021-08-08 8:22:10 AM  

NathanAllen: Isn't this the movie that was rewritten to appease the toxic fans that the first sequel disappointed?

Turns out they didn't want "different" as much as "male protagonist."

See: everything in nerd culture.


No, you're thinking of Rise of Skywalker which was made to appease the "fans" angry about TLJ.
 
2021-08-08 8:29:26 AM  
My wife and kids just left for the week, my weed guy is about to drop over a fat sack.

I think I'll sit on the couch, get high and re-evaluate The Last Jedi
 
2021-08-08 8:30:09 AM  
After Han was killed and Chewbacca, Rey and Finn returned to wherever, they got off the ship and Chewbacca and Leia JUST WALKED RIGHT BY EACH OTHER WITHOUT EVEN A GLANCE(!!!) so Rey and Leia could have a moment...I was pissed. I'm still a little angry about it.
I'm interested to see if JJ will ever NOT screw up a reboot/sequel.
 
2021-08-08 8:35:22 AM  
No, it was not a "masterpiece in trolling", it was sh*tty storytelling. The scripts needed more work and the trilogy needed a more coherent story overall.
 
2021-08-08 8:41:10 AM  

Barton Fink: My wife and kids just left for the week, my weed guy is about to drop over a fat sack.

I think I'll sit on the couch, get high and re-evaluate The Last Jedi


This is the way.
 
2021-08-08 8:46:44 AM  

cloverock70: After Han was killed and Chewbacca, Rey and Finn returned to wherever, they got off the ship and Chewbacca and Leia JUST WALKED RIGHT BY EACH OTHER WITHOUT EVEN A GLANCE(!!!) so Rey and Leia could have a moment...I was pissed. I'm still a little angry about it.
I'm interested to see if JJ will ever NOT screw up a reboot/sequel.


Chewbacca knows what he did.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-08-08 8:51:12 AM  

AtlanticCoast63: On the other hand....I only saw TRoS for the first time about a month ago....and when it was over, I looked at Mrs. Coast and asked, "I waited forty-four years for that???"


What do you mean, you "waited 44 years"? The sequels didn't start in 1976.
 
2021-08-08 8:53:05 AM  

Wraithstrike: I may be in the minority, but I enjoyed 85% of The Last Jedi.

I can tolerate the horse-racing planet scenes. Rose and Finn had great chemistry, and the hacker explaining that the galaxy far far away is a lot more morally grey than it seems is an interesting take.

The scenes with Grumpy Old Fart Luke were believable. If I was seen as this great hero, but I couldn't even save my own nephew, I'd probably go into self-imposed exile too.

3/4 of the scenes where Rian looked at the "ooh, it's a mystery" moments that JJ wrote into the Force Awakens and says "Nah, we don't need that" were good. 3PO's red arm, not critical to the plot. Ren telling Rey that her family was a bunch of nobodies that traded her for fuel and water?  That part is not great.

Ren killing Snoke? I liked that bit. Ren and Rey back to back killing Snoke's bodyguards? A fun little fight scene with enjoyable choreography. Ren unloading all his firepower on Luke, only for Master Skywalker to casually step out of the cloud and dust off his shoulder? Absolutely badass.

I enjoyed that the overall message of the movie was "Let's not cling to the stories of the past. There are new adventures and new heroes to follow as the story turns the page into another chapter."

The points that I didn't like were the points where the storytelling verged from explaining why Ren became a war criminal to justifying it. Where Poe went from being hotshot pilot that genuinely respects people to being so far up his own ass that he needs two tauntauns to pull himself out.

Was The Last Jedi a great Star Wars movie? No, but it was good, and a far deal better than Rise of the Skywalker. You can even see it in the actors' faces during the press junkets. In Last Jedi, they're laughing with each other, talking about their favorite scenes, and wondering what's going to happen next for their characters. The press junket for Rise of the Skywalker felt like a combination between a prisoner propaganda video and the Marshawn Lynch's "I'm just here so I don't get fined."


The scene of Kylo and Rey fighting the Imperial Guard took me out of the movie the choreography was so bad. The implementation was worse than the choreography, but watch it again, and watch the other guards, watch the twirling and the stalling to get from beat to beat watch the one of them taking a fall to a hit that never came. Watch the poor use of the scene.

We never even saw Snoke move or walk, let alone fight or train Kylo or use a single force power. He was not imposing, he was not established. So his death meant nothing, the scene was supposed to impress us with the power of the force, but there was nothing behind that, so it was cheap.

And Snoke going down like that would have required someone filling that power vacuum, which didn't happen. The First Order needed someone to step in. Instead you got a re-used dead guy with a different fleet and apparently army that we saw fall into the pit. His coming back cheapened the closure from RoTJ and showed their complete lack of ability to do anything but nostalgia. They went from cribbing the beats to cribbing the entire villain.

I like what they did with Luke, but Kylo was a shiat villain, Snoke was a shiat villain, and the emperor was both stolen and done poorly.

Unfortunately, Rian Johnson had no understanding of what the movies vs the universe were about. The Skywalker legacy was the point of the movies. Three universe already had force users everywhere, so his weird obsession with democratizing the force and trying to pull the story away from the characters want fulfilling. It was uninformed. That level of missing the beat mirrors how he misused Ren and Poe and the Rebels and his lack of following a story is why you got the casino planet scene.

I can't even get straight in my head exactly what I didn't like from movie to movie. I overall liked the new trilogy better than the prequels, but not as much basically every other piece of Star Wars media. The movies are the lowest point. The games are better, the cartoons are better. The problem is they aren't trying to do anything well, they're trying to make a buck which just leaves it all very meh and unsatisfying.
 
2021-08-08 8:53:53 AM  

gopher321: It was forgettable. Which is the worst thing you can say about any movie.


I actually don't remember which of the sequel trilogy is worse. I know I didn't like the ones I saw, but I don't actually remember whether I saw the last one (including whether I may have started it and then turned it off)
 
2021-08-08 8:56:55 AM  

Barton Fink: My wife and kids just left for the week, my weed guy is about to drop over a fat sack.

I think I'll sit on the couch, get high and re-evaluate The Last Jedi


You're doing the Lord's work, son. Keep it up.

Ep 1 is my go-to hangover movie. Looks like the 5 yr old is watching Star Wars with me this morning.
 
2021-08-08 9:20:25 AM  

NathanAllen: Isn't this the movie that was rewritten to appease the toxic fans that the first sequel disappointed?

Turns out they didn't want "different" as much as "male protagonist."

See: everything in nerd culture.


Yeah, there are no successful comic book or action or horror movies with female leads.
 
2021-08-08 9:22:51 AM  

adamgreeney: It's the best of the new trilogy if you wanted Star Wars to grow, evolve, and be a wider universe. It's the worst if you want your space aristocrats and inherited positions of authority.

At the very least, they should have kept with the idea that you don't have to be from one specific bloodline to be powerful. The Force can be powerful in anyone. The fact we're still cheering on bloodlines being the deciding factor on who should rule is... Troubling.


I had no problem with Ray being no one special.  That would make her hero's journey even more unique in Star Wars.  A hero's journey of going from being anonymous junk collector to slaying the evil overlord of the galaxy a week later.

Seriously, there's a week between the beginning of the first movie and the ending of the second, during which time Ray teaches herself all she needs to know faster than anyone ever has, outgrows the most powerful Jedi Master in the galaxy, and completely stomps all over Snoke's imperial guard with little difficulty.  It's like the force taught Ray cheat codes.
 
2021-08-08 9:24:32 AM  
Star Wars: The Last Plinkett Review
Youtube f83D18xL7VE
 
2021-08-08 9:24:44 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: gopher321: It was forgettable. Which is the worst thing you can say about any movie.

Right, it was forgettable. That's why everyone keeps talking about it.


The movies themselves are forgettable, its YouTube that still needs the clicks.
 
2021-08-08 9:26:39 AM  

Quantumbunny: NathanAllen: Isn't this the movie that was rewritten to appease the toxic fans that the first sequel disappointed?

Turns out they didn't want "different" as much as "male protagonist."

See: everything in nerd culture.

I don't case how sexist you are or woke you are... The gender of the protagonist isn't on the top 25 of things wrong with those 3 movies. I consume a lot of content about movie narratives, including why the music was misused in the prequels and completely misused in the sequels.

Now maybe I make better decisions about where I go online and avoiding social media shields me from this, but I've seen a lot of people here make your claim about why why people hate it... But I've never seen that be from someone who thinks that. Only from people like you.

I have however seen a lot about the failed narrative, the continuity, the lack of overall direction, the cheapness of the characters (Snoke being a throwaway, bringing back the emperor, etc), the pacing, the abuse of the music, the lack of follow through, the terrible character development, the First Order just being Nazi stand-in v2, and dozens of other reasons. The gender of the protagonist is up there with costume design as a reason I've never actual heard or even heard implied.

You guys need to stop generalizing your asshole friend on Facebook's posts as having any bearing at all on what other people outside of your asshole friend think.

Where do you even see this kind of screed?


Unfortunately You Tube and its rabbit holes. (a Castigating Alcoholic, and a 12AM Fringe, comes to mind)

Last week, I wanted to get a little info on the new "Masters of the Toyetic" reboot and my whole feed ended up
being "hey, i guess you like to watch endless biatchin' about "bait 'n switch", "you've betrayed my trust" and "my
childhood is ruuuiiiinnned!!!".

/and lo, thus the weeding commenced.
 
2021-08-08 9:31:29 AM  

Wraithstrike: I may be in the minority, but I enjoyed 85% of The Last Jedi.

I can tolerate the horse-racing planet scenes. Rose and Finn had great chemistry, and the hacker explaining that the galaxy far far away is a lot more morally grey than it seems is an interesting take.

The scenes with Grumpy Old Fart Luke were believable. If I was seen as this great hero, but I couldn't even save my own nephew, I'd probably go into self-imposed exile too.

3/4 of the scenes where Rian looked at the "ooh, it's a mystery" moments that JJ wrote into the Force Awakens and says "Nah, we don't need that" were good. 3PO's red arm, not critical to the plot. Ren telling Rey that her family was a bunch of nobodies that traded her for fuel and water?  That part is not great.

Ren killing Snoke? I liked that bit. Ren and Rey back to back killing Snoke's bodyguards? A fun little fight scene with enjoyable choreography. Ren unloading all his firepower on Luke, only for Master Skywalker to casually step out of the cloud and dust off his shoulder? Absolutely badass.

I enjoyed that the overall message of the movie was "Let's not cling to the stories of the past. There are new adventures and new heroes to follow as the story turns the page into another chapter."

The points that I didn't like were the points where the storytelling verged from explaining why Ren became a war criminal to justifying it. Where Poe went from being hotshot pilot that genuinely respects people to being so far up his own ass that he needs two tauntauns to pull himself out.

Was The Last Jedi a great Star Wars movie? No, but it was good, and a far deal better than Rise of the Skywalker. You can even see it in the actors' faces during the press junkets. In Last Jedi, they're laughing with each other, talking about their favorite scenes, and wondering what's going to happen next for their characters. The press junket for Rise of the Skywalker felt like a combination between a prisoner propaganda video and the Marshawn Lynch's "I'm ...



My take is this... Rian got the Jedi right. He got Rey, Ren, Luke, Snoke... that piece was absolutely, perfectly in universe fine. The surprise death of Snoke could have setup SO much more than it ended up being in the next movie. The cosmic distance relationship was great and believable. The throne room scene was fantastic. This all setup what could have been an amazing darkside/gray vs lightside/gray connection for the next movie. But they didn't pick up any of those threads.

Everything else he did - Every piece of it outside of that - was horrible. The opening bombing run looked cool but did not make a lot of sense. The cantobrite stuff? wtf? You have a tiny rebel force, the hero and lead pilot, the guy who could have been the 1b or 1c character was somehow not a part of leadership decisions with a teeny tiny task force and had such a hard embargo against him being given any knowledge that he staged a popular coup? I mean... It makes no sense in the movie at the time and even less on reflection. Then the universe building aspect - if a hyperspace suicide run works, then why the hell would the droid army, made of no sentient beings on their ships, not have kamikazed themselves against every republic cruiser in the 1-3 series? Wouldn't that mean the Death Star was the most indefensibly idiotic creation ever because they could just get close with astromech piloted ships and fling them at it with fantastic results? Wouldn't that realization mean that any large capital ship would be flanked by an interdictor cruiser with their field on to prevent this after they were invented (In this cannon, pre-Yavin). The end of the movie - I'd love for someone to explain how Rose suddenly out accelerated a full speed ahead Finn and cut him off, and how THAT didn't also kill him. That one might piss me off the most, because there was some narrative redemption in play for Finn in taking out the big drill with a sacrifice. Rose could have been setup to take his 3rd amigo position if they wanted.

If they made a Last Jedi cut that removes everything that doesn't directly play into the the Rey/Ren relationship and scenes, it would probably be a fantastic 45 minute movie. It's all the other crap that they just totally and completely bungled. The final movie failed so miserably because it tried to bridge the threads left at the end of Awakens and the threads left at the end of Jedi instead of focusing solely on what was left after Jedi. There was too much in contradiction between those two things (Rey being lineage vs a nobody for example). I've read most of the old EU stuff, and my thoughts coming out of Last Jedi is they made even more piss poor narrative choices than the god awful Jacen Solo series did somehow... not a great place to be.
 
2021-08-08 9:32:30 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: NathanAllen: Isn't this the movie that was rewritten to appease the toxic fans that the first sequel disappointed?

Turns out they didn't want "different" as much as "male protagonist."

See: everything in nerd culture.

No, you're thinking of Rise of Skywalker which was made to appease the "fans" angry about TLJ.


Here's the thing, the only place I hear people complaining about the Male protagonist thing is from people wanting to create a narrative about toxic fans screaming for a Male protagonist.

All most people wanted was a GOOD protagonist. We didn't get that. People aren't complaining about Ripley being a woman for example, people are complaining that the protagonists didn't drive the story and just followed a flawed narrative for three sequel movies.

And the fight choreography was awful. Flashy does not equal good.
 
2021-08-08 9:32:44 AM  

Wraithstrike: "Let's not cling to the stories of the past. There are new adventures and new heroes to follow as the story turns the page into another chapter."


Then maybe they should have set some of those new heroes up. Show some interesting interactions between them (seriously, they are almost never together in the same scene in the 3 movies), and not have:

Rey be all "I am an orphan girl who collects scrap for a living, but I can fight trained force users one on one and win" or "I might be an orphan, but I am also a world class pilot (to the point where the movie has Rey pilot the ship with Poe Dameron, who is the best pilot in the army, on the passenger seat. Or Poe trying to flee from a bunch of tie-fighters and replying to Chewie with "yeah, but she isn't here right now, is she?")". Rey has literally failed at nothing she has tried to do in all three movies and was insanely skilled in all the various areas of expertise she needed whether it was flying, combat flying, shooting, sword fighting, repairing ships, the force, anything really. It would have been nice to see her actually earn any of the things she did.

Poe: shouldn't have been the little whipping boy of bad leaders. He destroyed Starkiller Base, saved the fleet, is their best pilot, yet he constantly gets shat on. Purple-hair should have told him there was a plan rather than be "I am in charge so shut up".

Finn: should have had more attention placed on him being a former brainwashed stormtrooper. Not be used as the but of a few jokes, and yell "wooh-hoo" as he shoots stormtroopers literally minutes after he decides to defect. He should have been more serious (I'm pretty sure stormtrooper-brainwash training doesn't allow for jokers in the ranks), more trying to find his way in the universe. He shouldn't have needed the moronic casino planet escapade to see that bad people exist. He was kidnapped and trained to be a soldier. He knows. Also, that whole "this is why we fight" he hears on that planet? Both sides buy weapons from those traders. How does fighting for one side stop the slavery on that planet? Also, hasn't the New Republic been in charge for like 30 years? They didn't care enough to stop it apparently. He should also have had his heroic sacrifice as he charged the laser to save his friends. Rose stopping him (where did she even come from? All speeders except Finn were retreating but she managed to hit him straight in the side travelling perpendicular to him for a while), and the justification given, was just the stupidest thing ever. They were all about to die and had no options left. "Just retreat because this probably isn't going to work" isn't the best argument against a Hail Mary attempt.

Rose: just cut her out. Nothing of value will be lost.

Chewie: how about not demoting him to a glorified chauffeur? And have Leia go to him after Han's death rather than Leia going to Rey.

Luke: yeah, don't have him be the central player in the story. That is about the only thing they did right with his character. But don't try to sell me on the idea that the man who tried to redeem Vader (who he didn't actually know) would give up so hard on his nephew he saw grow up and trained. I would also like to know wtf is up with the "end the Jedi" bullshiat. The First Order is out there. He knows they have force users in their ranks. Is now the right moment to go and decide not to train more people who could oppose them? He should have been out in the universe looking for Snoke or something like that. Then have Rey meet him, get some quick pointers, and then Luke disappears on his quest again. Maybe they can meet up at the end before they confront Snoke. Snoke also being really powerful will counter Luke, Luke will counter Snoke, Rey can be the one who breaks the tie after fighting Kylo.

Kylo: give him some vision. Not just a whiny brat who dawdles between the Light and the Dark and does stupid shiat like killing people who ask valid questions. "What doe they want in return for the ships?" is not something anyone should get killed over. He also should have actually won some fights. He hasn't won a single battle in all 3 movies that did not involve him fighting together with Rey. How can we accept him as a scary antagonist when we see him get his ass whipped repeatedly? Not to mention getting his ass whipped by someone who did not even know what a lightsaber or the force was until recently.

Vader: why did the dude who can go all force-ghosty not show up and go "So, grandson, just what the ever loving fark did you think you were doing? Continuing my mission? Didn't you see I died defying the people you are now helping? What is wrong with you!"

Snoke: how about actually have him be an antagonist rather than some idiot who gets cut in half?

Palpatine: you were dead and should have remained as such.
 
2021-08-08 9:34:38 AM  

Baron Harkonnen: Seriously, there's a week between the beginning of the first movie and the ending of the second, during which time Ray teaches herself all she needs to know faster than anyone ever has, outgrows the most powerful Jedi Master in the galaxy, and completely stomps all over Snoke's imperial guard with little difficulty. It's like the force taught Ray cheat codes.


How long did Luke train? No one told him about moving stuff with the Force before he did it on Hoth. And he couldn't have been on Dagobah with Yoda for all that long. We didn't see any lightsaber training at all except when he was messing around with that remote, yet he did pretty well against Vader, even though Vader wasn't trying to kill him in Empire. It doesn't seem like if you have it in you, you don't need a lot of training.
 
2021-08-08 9:35:20 AM  

adamgreeney: At the very least, they should have kept with the idea that you don't have to be from one specific bloodline to be powerful. The Force can be powerful in anyone. The fact we're still cheering on bloodlines being the deciding factor on who should rule is... Troubling.


I'm not even sure how this became a thing?

When I was a kid and saw the originals I knew there were LOTS of force users.
Skywalkers, Kenobis, Vaders (because F that noise of "Darth" being a title nonsense), Palpatines, etc.

Then the prequels showed us literally 100s of force users.  They weren't related to each other, why did this family thing have to be a thing??

So I didn't need Rey to be anyone.

My original theory when they announced the title was that the "Jedi" order ended.

But people, kids, who are discovering they have the force, heard tales of a guy named "Skywalker" who did all these things so they start calling each other "sky walkers"

Not a religious order like the Jedi.  Just people who have a power who call themselves "sky walkers"

The Rise of Sky Walkers.

((Shrug)) I enjoyed my theory
 
2021-08-08 9:38:22 AM  

buntz: adamgreeney: At the very least, they should have kept with the idea that you don't have to be from one specific bloodline to be powerful. The Force can be powerful in anyone. The fact we're still cheering on bloodlines being the deciding factor on who should rule is... Troubling.

I'm not even sure how this became a thing?

When I was a kid and saw the originals I knew there were LOTS of force users.
Skywalkers, Kenobis, Vaders (because F that noise of "Darth" being a title nonsense), Palpatines, etc.

Then the prequels showed us literally 100s of force users.  They weren't related to each other, why did this family thing have to be a thing??

So I didn't need Rey to be anyone.

My original theory when they announced the title was that the "Jedi" order ended.

But people, kids, who are discovering they have the force, heard tales of a guy named "Skywalker" who did all these things so they start calling each other "sky walkers"

Not a religious order like the Jedi.  Just people who have a power who call themselves "sky walkers"

The Rise of Sky Walkers.

((Shrug)) I enjoyed my theory


Obi Wan said it directly in "Jedi". The Emperor knew that if Anakin had any offspring, they'd be a threat. Yoda just assumed that Leia would be strong with the Force. It was clearly laid out that it was hereditary.
 
2021-08-08 9:43:54 AM  

Mugato: Obi Wan said it directly in "Jedi". The Emperor knew that if Anakin had any offspring, they'd be a threat. Yoda just assumed that Leia would be strong with the Force. It was clearly laid out that it was hereditary.


No, I know that, I meant why was it a thing that Rey HAD to be related to Skywalker or Kenobi or Palpatine?

There was a whole order (which, technically is not supposed to have offspring, as per their own rules) so it would stand that NO Jedi are related.

But I never watched thinking "Oh boy, Rey clearly needs to be related to someone!"
 
2021-08-08 9:47:51 AM  

Quantumbunny: The Skywalker legacy was the point of the movies.


Bullshiat, Star Wars is the heroes journey of a farm boy into a knight, a scoundrel into a hero/prince, and a woman from mcguffin into an equal hero. Who your parents are doesn't matter, Leia's, killed, Han's, never talked about, Luke's, the villain, showing who your
 
2021-08-08 9:48:44 AM  

ReaverZ: Quantumbunny: The Skywalker legacy was the point of the movies.

Bullshiat, Star Wars is the heroes journey of a farm boy into a knight, a scoundrel into a hero/prince, and a woman from mcguffin into an equal hero. Who your parents are doesn't matter, Leia's, killed, Han's, never talked about, Luke's, the villain, showing who your

parent doesn"t determine who you are.
 
2021-08-08 9:57:09 AM  
You know they waited a good ten years or so to start gaslighting the prequels.  People these days have no patience.
 
2021-08-08 9:57:38 AM  
I like to browse the blurays at Half-Priced Books. There is usually 10+ copies of The Last Jedi and Force Awakens each and about 5 of Rise available.  Just sayin.

(I also noticed a huge surplus of GoT boxed seasons in the last year, including 6/7/8. These are just things you notice, btw, giant sections of the same title.)
 
2021-08-08 9:59:54 AM  

Quantumbunny: including why the music was misused in the prequels


I was watching Attack of the Clones just this morning and wondered why they were playing the Duel of the Fates when Anakin was on his bike looking for his mom.
Yeah, it's a cool song but it didn't make sense in that scene.

Quantumbunny: We never even saw Snoke move or walk, let alone fight or train Kylo or use a single force power. He was not imposing, he was not established. So his death meant nothing, the scene was supposed to impress us with the power of the force, but there was nothing behind that, so it was cheap.


Not to be "that guy" (you make a lot of good points) but you never really saw the Emperor do anything either.
They sort of mention him doing something political in New Hope.
His hologram monkey face shows up and talks in Empire
And he mostly sits and acts childish in Jedi ("Your faith in your friends is YOURS!  Nyah nyah!"

Now, granted, yes, the force lightning then showed him being a badass.  And I think the brief floating of Rey and her screaming was supposed to be the Snoke equivalent (though it was way too short and implied to be truly menacing) but no, it wasn't the same thing.

But really, both characters were talked about more than actually DOING anything but sitting and talking.

The Flexecutioner: There is usually 10+ copies of The Last Jedi and Force Awakens each and about 5 of Rise available.  Just sayin.


They're selling all 3 (and Solo) at FiveBelow right now.  $5 for the blu-ray!  Or Blu-Rey (as it were). (I'm here all week, try the veal)
 
2021-08-08 10:04:33 AM  
The bottom line is that you had two dueling writer/directors with different ideas of how the trilogy should go, each trying to negate what was in the previous film. Say what you want about Lucas but at least it was just one guy with one coherent idea of what he wanted to do and his movies didn't contradict each other (except for Leia tonguing Luke before it was decided that she was his sister).
 
2021-08-08 10:12:19 AM  
If you like Star Wars but the new movies ain't scratching that itch, be sure to watch Clone Wars and Bad Batch and Mandalorian.

Star Wars really shines when they tell stories that aren't about the Skywalker family.
 
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