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(CNN)   National Labor Relations Board to recommend Amazon extend the free return period on Alabama unionization vote results   (cnn.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Elections, Trade union, Voting, Election, Voting system, Amazon facilities, Joe Biden, election results  
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1796 clicks; posted to Main » and Business » on 03 Aug 2021 at 4:05 AM (17 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



30 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-08-03 4:17:39 AM  
Just call them 'confederacies' and ask again.
 
2021-08-03 4:29:58 AM  
No this can't be right. I was assured by someone on this site that no unions was a good thing in AL because his sister was getting $20/hr at the Amazon facility and she had never made that much before so therefore and whathaveyou no union was needed.
 
2021-08-03 5:13:03 AM  
"Illegal activities" by Amazon?

Behind every great fortune lies a great crime...or a plethora of small ones.
 
2021-08-03 5:45:30 AM  
So now an even larger % of idiots can vote against their best interests?
 
2021-08-03 6:10:30 AM  
In response to Monday's news, an Amazon spokesperson said in a statement: "Our employees had a chance to be heard during a noisy time when all types of voices were weighing into the national debate, and at the end of the day, they voted overwhelmingly in favor of a direct connection with their managers and the company. Their voice should be heard above all else, and we plan to appeal to ensure that happens."

I can feel the slime dripping off of that spokesman.
 
2021-08-03 6:19:47 AM  
That's interesting, this is the first time I have heard that union votes were normally in person, and the mail-in was just a covid thing. I still think it was fine for Amazon to put a post office box on site. The way the union voting rules worked, even if only 10% of the workers voted, they would hold all the abstainers to the vote. Amazon felt that the majority of workers didn't want to unionize, and the vote proved that out.  The union ironically was in a position of wanted to lower turnout, and essentially go door to door to get folks to mail and sign in votes.  So putting an onsite mail drop is an easy way to encourage voting.

Note also that of all the things that Amazon was accused of, this was the only one that has so far held up.  If you read the posts all over the place, one would of thought there was more of a case...it turns out it was just...hot air.
 
2021-08-03 6:57:54 AM  
Sucks that Amazon can't treat blue collar workers the same way as they do their white collar workers. Wage slaves working oppressive hours and fires for demanding a work life balance because their "not a good culture fit."

History has repeated itself.
 
2021-08-03 7:19:29 AM  
Still waiting for someone to explain how adding extra mailboxes to make voting more convenient was an "anti-union" activity.
 
2021-08-03 7:58:38 AM  

lifeslammer: So now an even larger % of idiots can vote against their best interests?


Stop not liking what I like!
 
2021-08-03 7:59:56 AM  

lifeslammer: So now an even larger % of idiots can vote against their best interests?


And an even larger % of idiots can claim to know the best interests of other people.
 
2021-08-03 8:22:23 AM  

covalesj: That's interesting, this is the first time I have heard that union votes were normally in person, and the mail-in was just a covid thing. I still think it was fine for Amazon to put a post office box on site. The way the union voting rules worked, even if only 10% of the workers voted, they would hold all the abstainers to the vote. Amazon felt that the majority of workers didn't want to unionize, and the vote proved that out.  The union ironically was in a position of wanted to lower turnout, and essentially go door to door to get folks to mail and sign in votes.  So putting an onsite mail drop is an easy way to encourage voting.

Note also that of all the things that Amazon was accused of, this was the only one that has so far held up.  If you read the posts all over the place, one would of thought there was more of a case...it turns out it was just...hot air.


Amazon also allegedly had a key to that mailbox...

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/busi​ness/2021/05/14/amazon-had-key-usps-ma​ilbox-used-union-vote-witness-says/509​6695001/
 
2021-08-03 8:23:46 AM  
Is there a good source that explains US-citizens' loathing of unions? Its one of those oddities I honestly can't wrap my mind around.
 
2021-08-03 9:48:40 AM  

Hagbard_C: Is there a good source that explains US-citizens' loathing of unions? Its one of those oddities I honestly can't wrap my mind around.


You have obviously never worked in a US Union environment.  Most of the people in them are lazy, entitled pricks who don't want to do any work, and find any and every excuse to get away with it.  When I was a supervisor of union employees, I had one threaten to file a grievance against me for "harassment" because I told them that their 15 minute break was over and to get back to work.  It had been 22 minutes since I saw them go to break.  I had another one tell me that I "never gave him a chance" to do his job properly, when I would hand him work with written instructions, and he would turn it in at the end of the day not done, with the excuse "I haven't done this before."  So the next time I handed him work, I told him to take a look at the job, and if he has any questions to come to me, and I'll find someone who has done it several times to assist him.  He then waited until the end of shift to return it (not done again), and used the excuse of "I haven't been trained on this."  Thank god we finally fired him.
I could go on with lists of people and instances of this in the 2 union plants I've worked at, but basically, they all just try to take as long as they can on breaks, and then when they skip out of the work for long enough, they'll use the excuse of "it's too close to break time to start this" to avoid starting the job.
 
2021-08-03 9:53:21 AM  

Hagbard_C: Is there a good source that explains US-citizens' loathing of unions? Its one of those oddities I honestly can't wrap my mind around.


The mob used to own teamsters and republicians used that as an excuse to destroy all of them
 
2021-08-03 9:54:46 AM  

Rumproast42: Hagbard_C: Is there a good source that explains US-citizens' loathing of unions? Its one of those oddities I honestly can't wrap my mind around.

You have obviously never worked in a US Union environment.  Most of the people in them are lazy, entitled pricks who don't want to do any work, and find any and every excuse to get away with it.  When I was a supervisor of union employees, I had one threaten to file a grievance against me for "harassment" because I told them that their 15 minute break was over and to get back to work.  It had been 22 minutes since I saw them go to break.  I had another one tell me that I "never gave him a chance" to do his job properly, when I would hand him work with written instructions, and he would turn it in at the end of the day not done, with the excuse "I haven't done this before."  So the next time I handed him work, I told him to take a look at the job, and if he has any questions to come to me, and I'll find someone who has done it several times to assist him.  He then waited until the end of shift to return it (not done again), and used the excuse of "I haven't been trained on this."  Thank god we finally fired him.
I could go on with lists of people and instances of this in the 2 union plants I've worked at, but basically, they all just try to take as long as they can on breaks, and then when they skip out of the work for long enough, they'll use the excuse of "it's too close to break time to start this" to avoid starting the job.


So 2 people were assholes and 1 was fired. You sound like a boomer snowflake that was handed everything to you in life.  Are you the boss' kid?

Unions work in most civilized countries, and in the US federal government just fine.  Maybe it's your shiatty management and not the union employees that are a problem.
 
2021-08-03 10:45:03 AM  

c152atn67: covalesj: That's interesting, this is the first time I have heard that union votes were normally in person, and the mail-in was just a covid thing. I still think it was fine for Amazon to put a post office box on site. The way the union voting rules worked, even if only 10% of the workers voted, they would hold all the abstainers to the vote. Amazon felt that the majority of workers didn't want to unionize, and the vote proved that out.  The union ironically was in a position of wanted to lower turnout, and essentially go door to door to get folks to mail and sign in votes.  So putting an onsite mail drop is an easy way to encourage voting.

Note also that of all the things that Amazon was accused of, this was the only one that has so far held up.  If you read the posts all over the place, one would of thought there was more of a case...it turns out it was just...hot air.

Amazon also allegedly had a key to that mailbox...

https://www.detroitnews.com/story/busi​ness/2021/05/14/amazon-had-key-usps-ma​ilbox-used-union-vote-witness-says/509​6695001/


Seems like an important point.
 
2021-08-03 11:18:40 AM  

TTFK: Still waiting for someone to explain how adding extra mailboxes to make voting more convenient was an "anti-union" activity.


The old saying "It's not the votes that count, it's who counts the votes" fits here.
Would you trust an employer that hated unions to put their box that they have access to in front of their company building that they want you to drop your ballot into?

Like going to the drop box inside the local republican HQ back on November of last year.
 
2021-08-03 11:28:27 AM  

zeroman987: Rumproast42: Hagbard_C: Is there a good source that explains US-citizens' loathing of unions? Its one of those oddities I honestly can't wrap my mind around.

You have obviously never worked in a US Union environment.  Most of the people in them are lazy, entitled pricks who don't want to do any work, and find any and every excuse to get away with it.  When I was a supervisor of union employees, I had one threaten to file a grievance against me for "harassment" because I told them that their 15 minute break was over and to get back to work.  It had been 22 minutes since I saw them go to break.  I had another one tell me that I "never gave him a chance" to do his job properly, when I would hand him work with written instructions, and he would turn it in at the end of the day not done, with the excuse "I haven't done this before."  So the next time I handed him work, I told him to take a look at the job, and if he has any questions to come to me, and I'll find someone who has done it several times to assist him.  He then waited until the end of shift to return it (not done again), and used the excuse of "I haven't been trained on this."  Thank god we finally fired him.
I could go on with lists of people and instances of this in the 2 union plants I've worked at, but basically, they all just try to take as long as they can on breaks, and then when they skip out of the work for long enough, they'll use the excuse of "it's too close to break time to start this" to avoid starting the job.

So 2 people were assholes and 1 was fired. You sound like a boomer snowflake that was handed everything to you in life.  Are you the boss' kid?

Unions work in most civilized countries, and in the US federal government just fine.  Maybe it's your shiatty management and not the union employees that are a problem.


Do the unions in these other "civilized countries" go out if their way to protect sh*tty workers? I don't even work with the union and I've seen the crap they pull more times than I can begin to remember.
 
2021-08-03 11:40:17 AM  

Hagbard_C: Is there a good source that explains US-citizens' loathing of unions? Its one of those oddities I honestly can't wrap my mind around.


The short answer is, as always, racism.
 
2021-08-03 3:05:05 PM  
Is there a good source that explains US-citizens' loathing of unions? Its one of those oddities I honestly can't wrap my mind around.

There are really two kinds of unions in the USA: Trade unions (which could be likened more to European Guilds) and Public Sector Unions (which can be likened to parasites). Guild type unions have apprentice programs and standards for work and are awesome. They add value to the labor and have some level of standards they want their members to meet. Public sector unions do nothing more than make it harder to get decent results and coddle lazy non-union managers. They can bring in a decent negotiation team to do the real work every once in a while and sit on their ass the rest of the time. We tend not to like these unions because excellence in work is not rewarded and you get punished if you make other people look bad by doing your job like you care.
 
2021-08-03 5:06:44 PM  

dark brew: No this can't be right. I was assured by someone on this site that no unions was a good thing in AL because his sister was getting $20/hr at the Amazon facility and she had never made that much before so therefore and whathaveyou no union was needed.


This is so bizarre to me.  Do people seriously think wages will go down when a plant unionizes?  Like, what the hell?
 
2021-08-03 5:07:24 PM  

TTFK: Still waiting for someone to explain how adding extra mailboxes to make voting more convenient was an "anti-union" activity.


How about you ask the NLRB?  Because they seem to think so, and they're kind of the f*cking experts on the subject.
 
2021-08-03 5:08:04 PM  

Hagbard_C: Is there a good source that explains US-citizens' loathing of unions? Its one of those oddities I honestly can't wrap my mind around.


Toxic individualism.  And I'm sure there's some racism in there.  And "ZOMG UNION DUES I'M GETTING A PAY CUT." And corporate lies spanning literal generations.
 
2021-08-03 5:08:45 PM  

loudog: Is there a good source that explains US-citizens' loathing of unions? Its one of those oddities I honestly can't wrap my mind around.

There are really two kinds of unions in the USA: Trade unions (which could be likened more to European Guilds) and Public Sector Unions (which can be likened to parasites). Guild type unions have apprentice programs and standards for work and are awesome. They add value to the labor and have some level of standards they want their members to meet. Public sector unions do nothing more than make it harder to get decent results and coddle lazy non-union managers. They can bring in a decent negotiation team to do the real work every once in a while and sit on their ass the rest of the time. We tend not to like these unions because excellence in work is not rewarded and you get punished if you make other people look bad by doing your job like you care.


Wrong.  There are two kinds of unions:

- unions
- police unions
 
2021-08-03 5:09:33 PM  

Rumproast42: Hagbard_C: Is there a good source that explains US-citizens' loathing of unions? Its one of those oddities I honestly can't wrap my mind around.

You have obviously never worked in a US Union environment.  Most of the people in them are lazy, entitled pricks who don't want to do any work, and find any and every excuse to get away with it.  When I was a supervisor of union employees, I had one threaten to file a grievance against me for "harassment" because I told them that their 15 minute break was over and to get back to work.  It had been 22 minutes since I saw them go to break.  I had another one tell me that I "never gave him a chance" to do his job properly, when I would hand him work with written instructions, and he would turn it in at the end of the day not done, with the excuse "I haven't done this before."  So the next time I handed him work, I told him to take a look at the job, and if he has any questions to come to me, and I'll find someone who has done it several times to assist him.  He then waited until the end of shift to return it (not done again), and used the excuse of "I haven't been trained on this."  Thank god we finally fired him.
I could go on with lists of people and instances of this in the 2 union plants I've worked at, but basically, they all just try to take as long as they can on breaks, and then when they skip out of the work for long enough, they'll use the excuse of "it's too close to break time to start this" to avoid starting the job.


Yeah, I mean, who needs things like weekends?
 
2021-08-03 6:02:04 PM  

TTFK: Still waiting for someone to explain how adding extra mailboxes to make voting more convenient was an "anti-union" activity.


It was intimidation. There is no way amazon wasn't watching the boxes to see who would vote there. 

Then you'd assume that the "no" voters would vote by mail at home. Managers were "reminding" employees to go vote and that the mailbox was right there.

At meetings, anti-union consultants would flat out call out anyone and get their ID cards if they portrayed any pro-union sentiment to intimidate the rest. 

Less people voted for the union than participated in the initial card  check that was obviously for the union.
 
2021-08-03 8:45:47 PM  

Jurodan: https://www.detroitnews.com/story/bus​i​ness/2021/05/14/amazon-had-key-usps-ma​ilbox-used-union-vote-witness-says/509​6695001/


From the Article:
The allegation that employees connected with Amazon had access to the mailbox was not included in the complaint. It may also be difficult to corroborate, and had not been mentioned by earlier witnesses.

So.. someone made an allegation, but had no evidence of it, and it was too flimsy to take forward. There was a lot of unproven amazon demonization being put out.  So, your standard every-day-at-fox-news statement...no facts, and it wasn't deemed worthy to even put in the allegation to the NLRB.
 
2021-08-03 9:16:37 PM  
From the article:

the officer said Amazon's "unilateral decision to create, for all intents and purposes, an onsite collection box for NLRB ballots destroyed the laboratory conditions and justifies a second election."

You can't just place drop boxes anywhere. That destroys the integrity of the elections.
 
2021-08-04 6:45:26 AM  

CCNP: From the article:

the officer said Amazon's "unilateral decision to create, for all intents and purposes, an onsite collection box for NLRB ballots destroyed the laboratory conditions and justifies a second election."

You can't just place drop boxes anywhere. That destroys the integrity of the elections.


That whole statement is hyperbole, and again, isn't a legal opinion, but the board's argument, who aren't there to be a neutral party, but advocate for labor. It's sorta like asking your mom to talk to your soccer coach about playing time. They equate having any post office box onsite to having an onsite collection box.  #1: A post office box isn't a drop box. #2: In normal times collections happens onsite for these elections, this one being mail in was only due to covid gathering restrictions. #3: I don't know how one can describe it as a failure of laboratory conditions, unless it is to suggest that the mail in only vote was a test to see how mail in works, in which case a) having a mailbox doesn't change that, b) nobody mentioned the number of ballots that went in this mailbox  and c) If it was a laboratory/test, how doe they know if if failed?  Amazon has yet to respond on that point, but it will be probably something along the line of stating It was a post office mailbox, for a massive facility to allow easy voting for employee that normally would have voted onsite but due to covid were mailing in ballot. One could just as easily bend the unions efforts this way: "For the union representatives to deny having a post office box onsite, for all intents and purposes is an illegal attempt to lower voter turn-out to only those that when they went door to door, agreed with arguments that were pro-union, and deliberately attempted to discourage the choice that Amazon workers have clearly made."
 
2021-08-04 12:02:27 PM  

rewind2846: The old saying "It's not the votes that count, it's who counts the votes" fits here.
Would you trust an employer that hated unions to put their box that they have access to in front of their company building that they want you to drop your ballot into?


The only people that could unlock the box was USPS, Amazon had no access.  It was placed there at the request of Amazon BY USPS.
 
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