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(Vox)   Apparently home ownership has turned people into NIMBY monsters who resist change and progress at every turn   (vox.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Real estate, Welfare state, Scarcity, Homelessness, Researcher Rachel Bogardus Drew points, Affordable housing, Boston University researchers Katherine Einstein, Stanford University researchers Andrew Hall  
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3676 clicks; posted to Main » on 30 Jul 2021 at 11:17 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-07-30 9:10:50 PM  
If anyone in the DC shortbus knew how to do progress and change without CF'ing the entire thing maybe we home owners wouldn't resist?
 
2021-07-30 10:23:09 PM  
I think home ownership as an issue will be the next huge civil rights issue towards the back half if this century.
By issue I mean, people should not own property when there is do much disparity between those who do and those who don't.  Especially as our population grows.

Now if we hit a negative growth rate maybe not.
 
2021-07-30 11:18:01 PM  
Yes
 
2021-07-30 11:19:34 PM  
Phew, dodged that bullet then!
 
2021-07-30 11:19:35 PM  

tfresh: If anyone in the DC shortbus knew how to do progress and change without CF'ing the entire thing maybe we home owners wouldn't resist?


Now if only the people in general could agree on how we do do progress and change without CFing the entire thing.  Ask any 3 people you get 5 opinions
 
2021-07-30 11:22:28 PM  
We are a greedy, shortsighted species. All life is. That's the way it works.
 
2021-07-30 11:25:42 PM  
You don't say.
d2z1w4aiblvrwu.cloudfront.netView Full Size
 
2021-07-30 11:29:04 PM  
One of the reasons I believe in Georgism.  I also believe we need to use something more federal than a local property tax to fund schools.  People in good districts are perfectly happy to vote against more state and federal funding for schools because it's cheaper if they just pay for their district and screw all the poor kids.
 
2021-07-30 11:31:00 PM  
All the problems are because everyone is stupid but me.
 
2021-07-30 11:33:15 PM  
There's a reason that Margaret Thatcher made increasing rates of homeownership a big part of her policy push.  It makes people more right-wing.
 
2021-07-30 11:37:24 PM  
Where I live the property tax payers (bourgeois land owners) are hating on the neighborhood renters (proles) because we take up the parking in front of their houses and use our backyards. Classist (mostly gen x and boomer) farks. https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/loc​al-news/opinion-entitled-burnaby-homeo​wners-using-cones-to-block-street-park​ing-um-no-3927305
 
2021-07-30 11:37:36 PM  
Meanwhile, renters worry about getting priced out of their homes as municipal improvements are built and areas gentrify and home owners worry about property tax increases.

Maybe, like, having housing not be a fundamental right is ::checks notes:: bad?
 
2021-07-30 11:38:06 PM  
Honest question: what would you propose as an alternative to "homeownership"?
 
2021-07-30 11:38:56 PM  

clawsoon: There's a reason that Margaret Thatcher made increasing rates of homeownership a big part of her policy push.  It makes people more right-wing.


That also explains why the Dems want to ruin everything.
 
2021-07-30 11:42:09 PM  

HoratioGates: One of the reasons I believe in Georgism.  I also believe we need to use something more federal than a local property tax to fund schools.  People in good districts are perfectly happy to vote against more state and federal funding for schools because it's cheaper if they just pay for their district and screw all the poor kids.


IIRC, VT is trying a statewide pooled funding model. Taxes for education go into a single state pool and allocated on the basis of districts' need. Might work there but probably wouldn't in a larger, more diverse state with cultural divisions across the state.
 
2021-07-30 11:43:18 PM  

gideon: Honest question: what would you propose as an alternative to "homeownership"?


Most residents of the USSR didn't own property. The government owned the land, built concrete apartment blocks on it, and housed everyone themselves.
 
2021-07-30 11:45:09 PM  

gideon: Honest question: what would you propose as an alternative to "homeownership"?


I live in a neighbourhood that's centered around mixed-income co-ops, and it's really nice.  This kind of neighbourhood might not be everybody's dream, but it's definitely something we could do with having more of.
 
2021-07-30 11:46:31 PM  
I was an asshole long before I owned a house.
 
2021-07-30 11:47:01 PM  
They built a couple new apartment buildings here in this outer-ring suburb. Pretty sure the rent on those was more than my mortgage on this smallish mid-century house, but to listen to some people, these apartments were gonna import the inner-cities.
 
2021-07-30 11:48:39 PM  
Always does, always will.
 
2021-07-30 11:50:47 PM  
At one point near the end of 2020, researchers foundthat the country had just 1.9 months supply of housing left. In simpler terms, if no new housing came onto the market, the nation would have run out of homes to sell in under two months.

What a useless statistic. It's like breathlessly pointing out that my family only has eight days of food remaining in our refrigerator. If WWIII were in progress, yeah, we'd be screwed, but all I have to do is make a quick run to the grocery store and we're fine again. There has never been an expectation that builders just create a bunch of homes without the prospect of selling them anytime soon, so why worry about this now?
 
2021-07-30 11:52:32 PM  

pdieten: gideon: Honest question: what would you propose as an alternative to "homeownership"?

Most residents of the USSR didn't own property. The government owned the land, built concrete apartment blocks on it, and housed everyone themselves.


Let's rephrase the question: What would you propose as a reasonable and sane alternative?
 
2021-07-30 11:53:36 PM  

gideon: Honest question: what would you propose as an alternative to "homeownership"?


Monorails that double as mobile free housing
 
2021-07-30 11:53:39 PM  

gideon: Honest question: what would you propose as an alternative to "homeownership"?


Renting.
 
2021-07-30 11:54:31 PM  
You can't own property, man.
 
2021-07-30 11:55:09 PM  

HoratioGates: One of the reasons I believe in Georgism.  I also believe we need to use something more federal than a local property tax to fund schools.  People in good districts are perfectly happy to vote against more state and federal funding for schools because it's cheaper if they just pay for their district and screw all the poor kids.


My area passed a huge tax increase " for the teachers". 75% of the money went to admin staff.

Then they had the audacity to ask for another massive "for the teachers" tax hike. Haven't passed one in well over a decade.

Then a school board got elected which tried to raise teacher salary. They all got recalled because the raises "weren't fair". Liberals know you have to keep scam going. No tax hike will ever be enough.
 
2021-07-30 11:56:17 PM  
As a homeowner, I am getting a kick...yadda yadda yadda.

I'm all for more public transit. Jesus, if I could park my vehicle and ride the bus to work, that would be awesome. I don't care that it would take me "longer" each way. Since buses can ride the HOV and toll lanes for free, it might actually be faster in total. I could kick back, listen to podcasts, and completely ignore everyone around me.

As for a homeless shelter, the only reason I am against one in my semi-suburban neighborhood is solely because of Texas' piss poor mental health services. They'd rather continually cut MHMR funding and dump them on the streets and, instead, would rather do literally anything else. So while I am not against shelters helping people whom are homeless regain their feet, I am dead set against how Texas handles "homelessness". I already deal with the untreated at work, I really don't want to deal with them in my driveway when I'm just trying to get the mail. Call me classist if you like, I don't give a fark. I just want some peace and quiet now and again when I'm at home.

I'm also not worried about property taxes. I don't mind if they increase now and again, so long as its not to build yet another farking football stadium to Texas' state mandated religion.
 
2021-07-30 11:57:08 PM  
Stanford University researchers Andrew Hall and Jesse Yoder find that homeownership increases participation in local elections

Well that certainly explains why our society has been engineered to make home ownership into a luxury of the rich over the last couple of generations.
 
2021-07-30 11:59:07 PM  

Mock26: gideon: Honest question: what would you propose as an alternative to "homeownership"?

Renting.


Reasonably priced renting.
 
2021-07-31 12:00:27 AM  

WhippingBoi: You can't own property, man.


It would be more accurate to simply say that ownership is not a permanent condition.
You can buy beer, as far as that goes. But you're really only renting it.
 
2021-07-31 12:05:08 AM  

bobbyjoebobby: HoratioGates: One of the reasons I believe in Georgism.  I also believe we need to use something more federal than a local property tax to fund schools.  People in good districts are perfectly happy to vote against more state and federal funding for schools because it's cheaper if they just pay for their district and screw all the poor kids.

My area passed a huge tax increase " for the teachers". 75% of the money went to admin staff.

Then they had the audacity to ask for another massive "for the teachers" tax hike. Haven't passed one in well over a decade.

Then a school board got elected which tried to raise teacher salary. They all got recalled because the raises "weren't fair". Liberals know you have to keep scam going. No tax hike will ever be enough.


Alabama "liberal."

Sure jan.
 
2021-07-31 12:08:16 AM  
Ah, BlackRock propaganda. Nice.
 
2021-07-31 12:08:44 AM  

WhippingBoi: You can't own property, man.


morbotron.comView Full Size
 
2021-07-31 12:09:46 AM  

blastoh: I think home ownership as an issue will be the next huge civil rights issue towards the back half if this century.
By issue I mean, people should not own property when there is do much disparity between those who do and those who don't.  Especially as our population grows.

Now if we hit a negative growth rate maybe not.


Imagine no possessions, I wonder if you can 🎶
 
2021-07-31 12:12:57 AM  

gideon: Honest question: what would you propose as an alternative to "homeownership"?


All houses and apartments are owned by the shareholders of two or three corporations, and all of America rents for the rest of their lives.

/s
 
2021-07-31 12:13:28 AM  

pdieten: gideon: Honest question: what would you propose as an alternative to "homeownership"?

Most residents of the USSR didn't own property. The government owned the land, built concrete apartment blocks on it, and housed everyone themselves.


Ньукку Поньо "МНЕ УЖЕ МОЖНО"
Youtube 3uLeCCdqjPs
 
2021-07-31 12:13:59 AM  

blastoh: I think home ownership as an issue will be the next huge civil rights issue towards the back half if this century.
By issue I mean, people should not own property when there is do much disparity between those who do and those who don't.  Especially as our population grows.

Now if we hit a negative growth rate maybe not.


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size
 
2021-07-31 12:15:06 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Mock26: gideon: Honest question: what would you propose as an alternative to "homeownership"?

Renting.

Reasonably priced renting.


Who decides which person gets the reasonably priced, waterfront beach house?
 
2021-07-31 12:16:49 AM  
The obvious solution is to ban home ownership. Allow people to live anywhere they want, rent-free. Residences will be built and maintained using rainbows and unicorn farts.
 
2021-07-31 12:20:29 AM  

MBooda: The obvious solution is to ban home ownership. Allow people to live anywhere they want, rent-free. Residences will be built and maintained using rainbows and unicorn farts.


But unicorns are white and patriarchal. Sorry, close but can't do it.
 
2021-07-31 12:24:48 AM  
This is because the house and land are usually the only substantial appreciating asset the middle class own. Most personal property has trivial value, and depreciates badly. A house, or rather mostly the land under a house, is the store of a vast bulk of many people's net worth. Anything that decommodifies housing, that drives down the price of shelter, also lowers the net worth of the middle class.

Wealth and status are determined by owning things in our civilization. Having the value of what you owned threatened also threatens your personal status and place in the social order.

Yes, stock is also a thing, and just like housing the value of stock is propped up by the government for the advantage of the 10% that own the vast bulk of all stock. There are good reasons to keep the stock market from crashing, obviously, but what the stock market represents and who owns what - and who is allowed to own what and how - are deeper questions. Many of th upper middle class, the gentry of our time, get stock options as part of their pay. The nobility and royalty of our time are determined by what they own, just as before, but capital has gone from being an agricultural resource mostly meaning land to being stock which represents ownership of corporations (the modern form of fiefs).
 
2021-07-31 12:27:49 AM  
I am still blindsided by anti-home ownership rhetoric in our society. It remains the best, if not only realistic way to create inter-generational wealth for a family with a positive social trajectory within a society. 

Rent, as a concept, is about as bankrupt as compounding interest for a society that cares about equality and social mobility within the community.

The only way it makes sense to proscribe home ownership across the board, instead favoring rent, is if the government is in control of building and maintaining properties, is the landlord, and rent is a not-for-profit vehicle used only to support additional, planned growth and maintenance.

But in that situation, you lose creativity, individualism, and double down on exposure to corruption.

Otherwise, we're just talking about serfdom with a different coat of paint slapped on.

The only people I know of that prefer renting are friends that have high-paying jobs who also place a high value on mobility. Everyone else I know would much rather put their largest monthly expense toward building up equity, rather than giving it to someone else to secure what amounts to a consumable good.

And the homeowners I know that are socially minded are far more interested in securing the environmental and social security within their communities than they are at being NIMBYers.

While it may be true that risky or disruptive changes may be more likely to be met with resistance, more often than not, homeowners (not landlords) can be reasoned with. Where this is a problem, there are laws and procedures in place capable of supporting actions the general public believe are in the interest of the collective common good, should homeowners dig in their heels.
 
2021-07-31 12:33:05 AM  
BRUTUALIST STYLE CONCRETE BLOCKS FOR EVERYONE!
 
2021-07-31 12:41:29 AM  
What a stupid article.

When there's a seller's market, other intangibles don't matter. The seller is getting multiple bids above asking price no matter what. It's only when there's a buyer's market that other things start to matter.

Also, people want things in their neighborhoods to be "good" or "better". This doesn't mean "no changes". It means "no changes for things that are perceived as reducing home values". If the schools get better, no one particularly minds.
 
2021-07-31 12:45:22 AM  

talkyournonsense: Where I live the property tax payers (bourgeois land owners) are hating on the neighborhood renters (proles) because we take up the parking in front of their houses and use our backyards. Classist (mostly gen x and boomer) farks. https://www.vancouverisawesome.com/loc​al-news/opinion-entitled-burnaby-homeo​wners-using-cones-to-block-street-park​ing-um-no-3927305


No one wants your run down van permanently parked in front of their house or wants to hear your kids screaming all day.
 
2021-07-31 12:46:37 AM  

pdieten: gideon: Honest question: what would you propose as an alternative to "homeownership"?

Most residents of the USSR didn't own property. The government owned the land, built concrete apartment blocks on it, and housed everyone themselves.


As someone whom grew up in one of them fine soviet concrete blocks, let me tell what a joy it was. Hot water worked sometimes, elevators worked sometimes, heat worked all too well with no ability to regulate it. Everything was community property which means everything was broken, dirty and soon stolen. Hallway lights didn't work, kids beat up on other kids in dark hallways, teenagers were always effing, drinking or shooting up. Your radio always got stolen out of car as did your gasoline.

No thanks.
 
2021-07-31 12:47:37 AM  

Gyrfalcon: Mock26: gideon: Honest question: what would you propose as an alternative to "homeownership"?

Renting.

Reasonably priced renting.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-07-31 12:50:21 AM  

FarkingStan: I am still blindsided by anti-home ownership rhetoric in our society. It remains the best, if not only realistic way to create inter-generational wealth for a family with a positive social trajectory within a society.


It's the online left that drives this perception. Not any significant majority. If the actual public wasn't interested in homeownership, people wouldn't have such a hard time finding it.
 
2021-07-31 12:57:32 AM  
A company is buying up entire neighborhoods at above asking price to take them off the market.

Basically, home ownership is going to go away as houses become bank investments.
 
2021-07-31 1:05:49 AM  
When asked if I'm a homeowner, I point out that it's actually the bank that owns the home. 

This is going to come across as really NIMBY, but I've noticed people that want these projects never suggest they be done next to THIER homes. None of them say "Yeah, put that drug rehab place next door to me!" No, they'll pay for studies that will always point to next door to ME to be the better place. Does the governor's mansion or his/her personal home have any of these projects next door to them? 

My city recently increased property taxes by 1% because some people wanted to start a separate slush fund for their pet social projects. This fund is for "recreation, historic preservation, affordable housing and open space projects". Notice there isn't any SPECIFIC mission there. No "Barry park is in danger of being destroyed by developers."  

Now, who could be against things that are good? I can if they're not specific, and just want an extra slush fund above and beyond our regular taxes. Indeed, the council that handles the fund are LOOKING for idea to what they can do with the money! It's one thing to try to get money for a specific project, but just to raise taxes to get money and THEN decide what to use it for, when you didn't have any specific idea in the first place? How about if you have a project in mind, go out and have a bake sale instead? Do fundraisers. 

Yeah, I'm proud to be a NIMBY monster.
 
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