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(Abc.net.au)   Largest battery in the Southern Hemisphere starts off in an appropriately Australian way   (abc.net.au) divider line
    More: Scary, toxic smoke warning, Australia, Australian Energy Market Operator, Bell Park, Victoria, Flue, fire crews, Lithium, Wind power  
•       •       •

1415 clicks; posted to STEM » on 30 Jul 2021 at 4:10 AM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



40 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-07-30 4:52:10 AM  
Yeah. Who could have possibly seen this one coming a mile away


Anyone else wanna wonder how tesla is going to handle the fallout from this?
 
2021-07-30 5:04:51 AM  
I was hoping for a different type of battery...

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-07-30 5:24:08 AM  
lifeslammer:

Anyone else wanna wonder how tesla is going to handle the fallout from this?

Just let it burn itself out?

Go up in flames?

[Thermal] Runaway?

React badly?

Get hot and bothered?

Call people paedophiles?
 
2021-07-30 5:52:41 AM  
Seriously, how does one extinguish this? The batteries look pretty closely packed..... and from seeing tesla cars burn....


/ do slashies help put out battery fires
// maybe need more
/// try three
 
2021-07-30 5:54:25 AM  
At least they seem to have designed it in a such a way that they don't all catch fire - there was a similar incident on Oahu and the whole facility burned. This one lost 2 banks but seems unlikely to catch fire entirely.

This is definitely less than ideal, but you know we could have spent the last 20, or better 40 years, working on scaling up renewables. We got lied to by the fossil fuel companies who knew they were destroying the atmosphere, and at least since 2000 a lot of have know it. The governments of the world sure as shiat either knew or should have known, and they ALSO lied to us about it.

Now we have to charge ahead and hope we can save our own asses. It's not always gonna be pretty but we're gonna get unprecedented wildfires, heatwaves, and floods every year for the rest of our lives even if we succeed. Imagine if we fail.
 
2021-07-30 6:05:24 AM  

sukotto: Seriously, how does one extinguish this? The batteries look pretty closely packed..... and from seeing tesla cars burn....


/ do slashies help put out battery fires
// maybe need more
/// try three


You dont. There is no possible safe way to even try and put this out. You just get to stand there and watch a plume of toxic smoke billow up into the atmosphere for the next 24 hours
 
2021-07-30 6:07:40 AM  

sukotto: Seriously, how does one extinguish this? The batteries look pretty closely packed..... and from seeing tesla cars burn....


/ do slashies help put out battery fires
// maybe need more
/// try three


Thinking back on my military training (fixed aircraft) I think you'll need to fight two different enemies here.
1) the actual god damn fire
2) the ongoing chemical reaction that is most likely contributing to the god damn fire.

We used different chemicals depending on the battery to neutralize thermal runaway.
 
2021-07-30 6:11:22 AM  

sukotto: Seriously, how does one extinguish this? The batteries look pretty closely packed..... and from seeing tesla cars burn....


You kindly ask the locals in the neighbouring suburbs to shut their windows and bring pets inside, then stand around and watch it for a day.
 
2021-07-30 6:16:25 AM  
I thought it was going to be covered in spiders or something.
 
2021-07-30 6:31:50 AM  
An appropriately Australian way?

Did it bite someone and kill them then catch fire?

Did it start burning upside down?

Did it throw shrimp on itself as it caught fire?

Was it heard saying "You call that a fire?" right before it went up?

Is the fire named Bruce?
 
2021-07-30 7:25:15 AM  
Put another shrimp on the battery, mate.
 
2021-07-30 7:31:24 AM  

adamatari: At least they seem to have designed it in a such a way that they don't all catch fire - there was a similar incident on Oahu and the whole facility burned. This one lost 2 banks but seems unlikely to catch fire entirely.

This is definitely less than ideal, but you know we could have spent the last 20, or better 40 years, working on scaling up renewables. We got lied to by the fossil fuel companies who knew they were destroying the atmosphere, and at least since 2000 a lot of have know it. The governments of the world sure as shiat either knew or should have known, and they ALSO lied to us about it.

Now we have to charge ahead and hope we can save our own asses. It's not always gonna be pretty but we're gonna get unprecedented wildfires, heatwaves, and floods every year for the rest of our lives even if we succeed. Imagine if we fail.


...almost.
Perhaps space them just a teeny bit further apart, so that one going up in flames doesn't cause another one to erupt?
 
2021-07-30 7:32:24 AM  
Metallica - Battery (HD)
Youtube md3B3I7Nmvw

Got nothing.
 
2021-07-30 7:34:03 AM  
Pumped water storage is looking better all the time

Although, you probably don't want to use it to try to put out a lithium fire
 
2021-07-30 7:57:20 AM  

sukotto: Seriously, how does one extinguish this? The batteries look pretty closely packed..... and from seeing tesla cars burn....


/ do slashies help put out battery fires
// maybe need more
/// try three


Yeah for being in such a huge country with plenty of space those seem tightly packed together.

Probably helps the efficiency having short cable runs.

Thinking about this I'd have built those units all in a long line, side by side, with a slope with a large pool of water alongside. If one catches fire you just release a catch and the unit slides down the slope and into the water, leaving the others safe.
 
2021-07-30 8:08:50 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: sukotto: Seriously, how does one extinguish this? The batteries look pretty closely packed..... and from seeing tesla cars burn....


/ do slashies help put out battery fires
// maybe need more
/// try three

Yeah for being in such a huge country with plenty of space those seem tightly packed together.

Probably helps the efficiency having short cable runs.

Thinking about this I'd have built those units all in a long line, side by side, with a slope with a large pool of water alongside. If one catches fire you just release a catch and the unit slides down the slope and into the water, leaving the others safe.


That would cause a spectacular explosion, which would result in more units catching fire
 
2021-07-30 8:11:29 AM  

dittybopper: They're literally calling Australians drunk homophobic racists.


Named Bruce.
 
2021-07-30 8:16:38 AM  

omg bbq: sukotto: Seriously, how does one extinguish this? The batteries look pretty closely packed..... and from seeing tesla cars burn....


/ do slashies help put out battery fires
// maybe need more
/// try three

Thinking back on my military training (fixed aircraft) I think you'll need to fight two different enemies here.
1) the actual god damn fire
2) the ongoing chemical reaction that is most likely contributing to the god damn fire.

We used different chemicals depending on the battery to neutralize thermal runaway.


You also have to worry about the charge the battery, and the ones around it still hold.  Liquid and electricity?  Not a good combo.

Not saying it will be easy, but fighting this type of fire has to be figured out.  Lithium-Ion batteries aren't going away anytime soon.  Whether its Tesla's Powerwall or Generac's cabinet, you're going to see more of these in houses in the future, not just in cars.
 
2021-07-30 8:19:13 AM  
Dear Mr/Mrs Dittybopper..... Apparently, telling someone who has - somewhat - commited an act of, well, blatant racism to apply a negative pressure delivered by the lips to the nether regions of another persons scrotum is apparently - not on. I do invite you to tea..... where I and all the voices in my head would - in synchronicity explain to you that thousth words are pretty racist and would not be tolerated in most societies - even if they were mentioned years ago in a humours video. Usage of such nouns are distinctly frowned uppon by the modern man, doth with a wonderful hat.....
 
2021-07-30 8:25:42 AM  

lifeslammer: Carter Pewterschmidt: sukotto: Seriously, how does one extinguish this? The batteries look pretty closely packed..... and from seeing tesla cars burn....


/ do slashies help put out battery fires
// maybe need more
/// try three

Yeah for being in such a huge country with plenty of space those seem tightly packed together.

Probably helps the efficiency having short cable runs.

Thinking about this I'd have built those units all in a long line, side by side, with a slope with a large pool of water alongside. If one catches fire you just release a catch and the unit slides down the slope and into the water, leaving the others safe.

That would cause a spectacular explosion, which would result in more units catching fire


Make the slope long enough that the pool of water is far away. This is a country the UK used to test nuclear bombs in. I'm sure they can find enough space for an exploding battery.
 
2021-07-30 8:34:53 AM  

Erek the Red: omg bbq: sukotto: Seriously, how does one extinguish this? The batteries look pretty closely packed..... and from seeing tesla cars burn....


/ do slashies help put out battery fires
// maybe need more
/// try three

Thinking back on my military training (fixed aircraft) I think you'll need to fight two different enemies here.
1) the actual god damn fire
2) the ongoing chemical reaction that is most likely contributing to the god damn fire.

We used different chemicals depending on the battery to neutralize thermal runaway.

You also have to worry about the charge the battery, and the ones around it still hold.  Liquid and electricity?  Not a good combo.

Not saying it will be easy, but fighting this type of fire has to be figured out.  Lithium-Ion batteries aren't going away anytime soon.  Whether its Tesla's Powerwall or Generac's cabinet, you're going to see more of these in houses in the future, not just in cars.


This is me very strongly agreeing with you.
 
2021-07-30 9:14:38 AM  

Oneiros: Pumped water storage is looking better all the time

Although, you probably don't want to use it to try to put out a lithium fire


Mostly, you focus on preventing any other module from catching fire. Water's fine for that.

Tesla is switching to LFP batteries for future power products. More stable, cheaper, longer-lived; but bulkier for the amount of energy stored.  Not a problem for power products.
 
2021-07-30 9:36:32 AM  

lifeslammer: Carter Pewterschmidt: sukotto: Seriously, how does one extinguish this? The batteries look pretty closely packed..... and from seeing tesla cars burn....


/ do slashies help put out battery fires
// maybe need more
/// try three

Yeah for being in such a huge country with plenty of space those seem tightly packed together.

Probably helps the efficiency having short cable runs.

Thinking about this I'd have built those units all in a long line, side by side, with a slope with a large pool of water alongside. If one catches fire you just release a catch and the unit slides down the slope and into the water, leaving the others safe.

That would cause a spectacular explosion, which would result in more units catching fire


Drop it into a sand pit maybe? With another pile of sand nearby to bulldoze over it?
 
2021-07-30 10:33:26 AM  
You don't really "battle" a battery fire. You just watch it, try not to breath in the smoke, then clean up the mess when it's done.
 
2021-07-30 11:05:47 AM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: lifeslammer: Carter Pewterschmidt: sukotto: Seriously, how does one extinguish this? The batteries look pretty closely packed..... and from seeing tesla cars burn....


/ do slashies help put out battery fires
// maybe need more
/// try three

Yeah for being in such a huge country with plenty of space those seem tightly packed together.

Probably helps the efficiency having short cable runs.

Thinking about this I'd have built those units all in a long line, side by side, with a slope with a large pool of water alongside. If one catches fire you just release a catch and the unit slides down the slope and into the water, leaving the others safe.

That would cause a spectacular explosion, which would result in more units catching fire

Make the slope long enough that the pool of water is far away. This is a country the UK used to test nuclear bombs in. I'm sure they can find enough space for an exploding battery.


Water isn't always the solution to a fire.
 
2021-07-30 11:59:52 AM  

Erek the Red: omg bbq: sukotto: Seriously, how does one extinguish this? The batteries look pretty closely packed..... and from seeing tesla cars burn....


/ do slashies help put out battery fires
// maybe need more
/// try three

Thinking back on my military training (fixed aircraft) I think you'll need to fight two different enemies here.
1) the actual god damn fire
2) the ongoing chemical reaction that is most likely contributing to the god damn fire.

We used different chemicals depending on the battery to neutralize thermal runaway.

You also have to worry about the charge the battery, and the ones around it still hold.  Liquid and electricity?  Not a good combo.

Not saying it will be easy, but fighting this type of fire has to be figured out.  Lithium-Ion batteries aren't going away anytime soon.  Whether its Tesla's Powerwall or Generac's cabinet, you're going to see more of these in houses in the future, not just in cars.


From experience using LiPo batteries in RC cars, we had to smother the fires with sand.
And there were always fires.
 
2021-07-30 12:57:47 PM  

lifeslammer: Yeah. Who could have possibly seen this one coming a mile away


Anyone else wanna wonder how tesla is going to handle the fallout from this?


Elon Musk accuses you of being a pedophile?
 
2021-07-30 1:01:08 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: sukotto: Seriously, how does one extinguish this? The batteries look pretty closely packed..... and from seeing tesla cars burn....


/ do slashies help put out battery fires
// maybe need more
/// try three

Yeah for being in such a huge country with plenty of space those seem tightly packed together.

Probably helps the efficiency having short cable runs.

Thinking about this I'd have built those units all in a long line, side by side, with a slope with a large pool of water alongside. If one catches fire you just release a catch and the unit slides down the slope and into the water, leaving the others safe.


Are you not aware of what happens when you mix alkali metals and water?

media.tenor.com
 
2021-07-30 1:55:51 PM  

Sporkabob: An appropriately Australian way?

Did it bite someone and kill them then catch fire?

Did it start burning upside down?

Did it throw shrimp on itself as it caught fire?

Was it heard saying "You call that a fire?" right before it went up?

Is the fire named Bruce?


Missing drop bear and roo punching reference
 
2021-07-30 1:58:22 PM  

omg bbq: Erek the Red: omg bbq: sukotto: Seriously, how does one extinguish this? The batteries look pretty closely packed..... and from seeing tesla cars burn....


/ do slashies help put out battery fires
// maybe need more
/// try three

Thinking back on my military training (fixed aircraft) I think you'll need to fight two different enemies here.
1) the actual god damn fire
2) the ongoing chemical reaction that is most likely contributing to the god damn fire.

We used different chemicals depending on the battery to neutralize thermal runaway.

You also have to worry about the charge the battery, and the ones around it still hold.  Liquid and electricity?  Not a good combo.

Not saying it will be easy, but fighting this type of fire has to be figured out.  Lithium-Ion batteries aren't going away anytime soon.  Whether its Tesla's Powerwall or Generac's cabinet, you're going to see more of these in houses in the future, not just in cars.

This is me very strongly agreeing with you.


Name doesn't check out
 
2021-07-30 2:38:56 PM  

sukotto: Dear Mr/Mrs Dittybopper..... Apparently, telling someone who has - somewhat - commited an act of, well, blatant racism to apply a negative pressure delivered by the lips to the nether regions of another persons scrotum is apparently - not on. I do invite you to tea..... where I and all the voices in my head would - in synchronicity explain to you that thousth words are pretty racist and would not be tolerated in most societies - even if they were mentioned years ago in a humours video. Usage of such nouns are distinctly frowned uppon by the modern man, doth with a wonderful hat.....


Allow me to be the first to invite you to intercourse yourself.   Vigorously.
 
2021-07-30 3:16:54 PM  

sukotto: Seriously, how does one extinguish this? The batteries look pretty closely packed..... and from seeing tesla cars burn....



Water. Lots and lots of water. (Skip to section 8.2.3.1)

The main thing that's burning is the electrolyte. When a cell overheats (either by being roasted or short-circuited) the electrolyte tries to vaporize, and the pressure inside the cell increases until the safety vent pops. When that happens you have hot, flammable vapors spraying everywhere.

So the solution is to keep everything cool, so the electrolyte in the un-compromised cells stays inside where it can't burn. You have to keep this up until whatever is generating the heat goes away.

Or just let the motherfarker burn, I guess...
=Smidge=
 
2021-07-30 4:27:14 PM  
Pffft, amateurs.
img.timeinc.netView Full Size
 
2021-07-30 4:57:09 PM  

Smidge204: sukotto: Seriously, how does one extinguish this? The batteries look pretty closely packed..... and from seeing tesla cars burn....


Water. Lots and lots of water. (Skip to section 8.2.3.1)

The main thing that's burning is the electrolyte. When a cell overheats (either by being roasted or short-circuited) the electrolyte tries to vaporize, and the pressure inside the cell increases until the safety vent pops. When that happens you have hot, flammable vapors spraying everywhere.

So the solution is to keep everything cool, so the electrolyte in the un-compromised cells stays inside where it can't burn. You have to keep this up until whatever is generating the heat goes away.

Or just let the motherfarker burn, I guess...
=Smidge=


Ok this is not a vehicle battery burning. This is one of those stupid semi trailer size superpacks right in the middle of the complex, going up like a torch

live-production.wcms.abc-cdn.net.auView Full Size


Again. If this thing goes boom, look at how many other things are going to go boom shortly after. I really dont get why they were not built semi underground so they could have sand dumps on them or some form of mitigation, but I can guess whoever thought this arrangement was solid is having a very bad day right now. How big of a tnt equivalent is each of those at full charge?
 
2021-07-30 7:46:38 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: lifeslammer: Carter Pewterschmidt: sukotto: Seriously, how does one extinguish this? The batteries look pretty closely packed..... and from seeing tesla cars burn....


/ do slashies help put out battery fires
// maybe need more
/// try three

Yeah for being in such a huge country with plenty of space those seem tightly packed together.

Probably helps the efficiency having short cable runs.

Thinking about this I'd have built those units all in a long line, side by side, with a slope with a large pool of water alongside. If one catches fire you just release a catch and the unit slides down the slope and into the water, leaving the others safe.

That would cause a spectacular explosion, which would result in more units catching fire

Make the slope long enough that the pool of water is far away. This is a country the UK used to test nuclear bombs in. I'm sure they can find enough space for an exploding battery.


The places y'all tried out your nukes in:

- aren't on any of the power grids (yes, we have more than one, and unlike the Yanks' multiple grids they aren't connected at all)
- in most cases, don't have any water to spare, and less loose sand than you might think
- have locals who are still understandably pissed off about GETTING FARKING NUKED back in the day and aren't likely to appreciate a delivery of further dangerously explosive anything.

And anywhere that is on a grid is rapidly approaching Central London levels of real estate affordability, albeit from a lower base. So we have the same problems as any other wealthy country here, without the relative good sense and scientific reasoning of a European Union government.
 
2021-07-30 9:40:44 PM  

dsmith42: Carter Pewterschmidt: sukotto: Seriously, how does one extinguish this? The batteries look pretty closely packed..... and from seeing tesla cars burn....


/ do slashies help put out battery fires
// maybe need more
/// try three

Yeah for being in such a huge country with plenty of space those seem tightly packed together.

Probably helps the efficiency having short cable runs.

Thinking about this I'd have built those units all in a long line, side by side, with a slope with a large pool of water alongside. If one catches fire you just release a catch and the unit slides down the slope and into the water, leaving the others safe.

Are you not aware of what happens when you mix alkali metals and water?

[media.tenor.com image 220x89]


So have some sort of viewing stand so people can watch the fireworks?
 
2021-07-31 12:48:47 AM  

lifeslammer: Smidge204: sukotto: Seriously, how does one extinguish this? The batteries look pretty closely packed..... and from seeing tesla cars burn....


Water. Lots and lots of water. (Skip to section 8.2.3.1)

The main thing that's burning is the electrolyte. When a cell overheats (either by being roasted or short-circuited) the electrolyte tries to vaporize, and the pressure inside the cell increases until the safety vent pops. When that happens you have hot, flammable vapors spraying everywhere.

So the solution is to keep everything cool, so the electrolyte in the un-compromised cells stays inside where it can't burn. You have to keep this up until whatever is generating the heat goes away.

Or just let the motherfarker burn, I guess...
=Smidge=

Ok this is not a vehicle battery burning. This is one of those stupid semi trailer size superpacks right in the middle of the complex, going up like a torch

[live-production.wcms.abc-cdn.net.au image 850x566]

Again. If this thing goes boom, look at how many other things are going to go boom shortly after. I really dont get why they were not built semi underground so they could have sand dumps on them or some form of mitigation, but I can guess whoever thought this arrangement was solid is having a very bad day right now. How big of a tnt equivalent is each of those at full charge?


Maybe you missed it, but the reason it was constructed as it was is $$$$$$ PROFIT. Tesla was under the gun to complete the project or Tesla was going to do it for free. Have I got that right? I seem to remember that. And he beat a deadline and there was much rejoicing.

I do not think these batteries are necessarily explosive no matter how much they are charged.
 
2021-07-31 1:05:55 AM  
I think I have figured out how all this ENERGIEWENDE is going to screw humanity.

When Germany shut down its coal and nuclear and decided it was going to go 100% to renewables, there was much applause, but Germany has become that much more reliant on Norwegian hydro, French nuclear, and Danish wind, and Russian gas. OK. Fine. No big deal. Everyone just pays more. To each other.

But then everyone does it. Shutting this down, buying electricity from this guy or that guy, and "exporting" their emissions to E. European countries that still use reliable generation. Coal. Old nuclear. Gas. Everyone is "better off" kind of.

But this increased reliance on "the other guy" is pretty optimistic, especially when the other guy is less reliable, and it changes from week to week.

So then California, Texas, Australia and others are doing it and ... waitaminnit.... stuff is blowing up and catching fire?

Are we... and just humor me.... are we trading a stable, improving, tested, robust, consistent infrastructure for a bunch of promises and maybes, and piling bigger and bigger burdens on systems that are not robust or stable? Safety is iffy. Supply chains are iffy. Capacity is iffy. Hydro is unreliable. Coal mines and oil wells are shutting down. Nuclear is phasing out.

If we choose to let EVs and infrastructural improvements get us out of our mess, then so be it. But we will need healthy economies to do that. Hacking away at healthy economies while expecting them to solve other problems is going to leave us with unsolved environmental problems, and no means to solve them.
 
2021-07-31 1:30:13 AM  
The first time you power up electronics its called a SMOKE TEST for a reason. This is most likely a faulty installation.

Putting out current technology lithium battery fires is simply a matter of putting water on it. Anything that hasn't breached its cell is kept cool and anything that is burning/can burn will disperse in water. The only significant firefighting issue is maintaining flow until everything is cooled down, usually less than 10 minutes. Lithium battery fires are hot but not hard to extinguish.
 
2021-07-31 7:44:05 AM  

lifeslammer: Ok this is not a vehicle battery burning. This is one of those stupid semi trailer size superpacks right in the middle of the complex, going up like a torch

[live-production.wcms.abc-cdn.net.au image 850x566]

Again. If this thing goes boom, look at how many other things are going to go boom shortly after. I really dont get why they were not built semi underground so they could have sand dumps on them or some form of mitigation, but I can guess whoever thought this arrangement was solid is having a very bad day right now. How big of a tnt equivalent is each of those at full charge?



Doesn't matter if it's in a car or not; same logic applies. Gotta keep the undamaged cells cool so they don't vent and cause the fire to spread. Once the fire is out you have to keep cooling it because internal shorts may still be dissipating energy that could restart the fire.

And there's nothing to go boom. Electricity isn't explosive like that. Closest you'll get is if there's a MASSIVE short which somehow doesn't blow fuses and you get some spectacular fireworks, but no "boom." (And I guarantee everything is fused at the individual cells, each tray of cells in the rack, at each rack, and at each bank of ranks...)
=Smidge=
 
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