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(US Department of Justice)   Court rules IRS can eat the rich trying to hide their money offshore   (justice.gov) divider line
    More: Hero, Internal Revenue Service, Taxation in the United States, Tax, use of foreign bank accounts, Commissioner of the Internal Revenue Service, United States Attorney, John Doe summonses, POLS Group  
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3122 clicks; posted to Politics » on 30 Jul 2021 at 2:05 AM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-07-29 9:05:24 PM  
Motörhead - Eat The Rich (Official Video)
Youtube Wh3t49NsWBA

/RIP Lemmy
 
2021-07-29 9:16:22 PM  
Why not pressure Bermuda and other tax havens to cough up the names and contact details of beneficial owners. And then threaten to confiscate every account that has an American (invariably Delaware) address unless they provide details of real owners of the accounts.
 
2021-07-29 9:18:39 PM  

mjjt: Why not pressure Bermuda and other tax havens to cough up the names and contact details of beneficial owners. And then threaten to confiscate every account that has an American (invariably Delaware) address unless they provide details of real owners of the accounts.


See, my thing would be what other tax havens can they move their money towards.  I'd cut those potential escape routes first.

Then, and only then would I go for Bermuda and the Cayman Islands and confront them.
 
2021-07-29 9:35:36 PM  
IRS: "You avoided $3,565,000 in US taxes by shifting assets to the Caymans."

The Monopoly Guy: "You got me, I did."

IRS: "You'll plead guilty?"

The Monopoly Guy: "My lawyer advised me that would be best."

IRS: "Then we'll see you at 10:00 a.m., where you will turn yourself in and pay the maximum fine of $10,000."

The Monopoly Guy: "OK. See you at Noon. I've got a golf game to attend to."
 
2021-07-29 10:25:56 PM  
fark em
 
2021-07-29 10:57:20 PM  
It's a very good start
 
2021-07-29 11:33:19 PM  
tougher on drug users then white collar crimes involving hiding millions of income from government taxes

US legal system is backwards
 
2021-07-30 1:30:23 AM  

kkinnison: tougher on drug users then white collar crimes involving hiding millions of income from government taxes

US legal system is backwards


It's a feature.  Part of the way you keep the oppressed masses oppressed.  Also ensures a steady supply of people who can be forced to work for slave wages, either as underpaid prison labor, or for the very limited/underpaid employment opportunities open to convicted felons.
 
2021-07-30 2:10:30 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


After much consideration of my reaction folder I settled on this one.
 
2021-07-30 2:14:48 AM  
Oh noooo, not the Panamanian accounts!

Y'all ever heard about the Turks and Caicos islands?
 
2021-07-30 2:15:46 AM  
Greed will spell the end of humanity.

But with fewer letters.
 
2021-07-30 2:19:54 AM  
So like, they've known about this? And they've just been... sitting on it?
 
2021-07-30 2:26:32 AM  

Walker: [YouTube video: Motörhead - Eat The Rich (Official Video)]
/RIP Lemmy


Motörhead were the sound of my adolescent years, saw them live 4 times, blindingly good every time. Lemmy was God.
Sid Vicious told him, "I can't play bass."
Lemmy replied, "I know."
Motörhead - Overkill Live Full-HD
Youtube EDB0dUWZUK8
 
2021-07-30 2:29:26 AM  
I'm so pissed about this I may need to spend Summer in Marstrand instead of Mayrhofen.  The powder's not so great this time of year, but it's really about the social statement, isn't it?  I'm against it, whatever it is, I'm sure.
 
2021-07-30 2:33:58 AM  

mjjt: Why not pressure Bermuda and other tax havens to cough up the names and contact details of beneficial owners. And then threaten to confiscate every account that has an American (invariably Delaware) address unless they provide details of real owners of the accounts.


Mostly because international law doesn't work that way; but keep shiatting in one hand and dreaming of a global dictatorship in the other, dear.
 
2021-07-30 2:42:06 AM  

kkinnison: tougher on drug users then white collar crimes involving hiding millions of income from government taxes

US legal system is backwards


No; it has to do with proving intent. If you are caught with a gram of meth, there is no question that you meant to have it, despite some criminals' imaginative protestations that these are not their pants, or even their socks.

However, financial crimes are not as clear cut. Did you really intend to defraud the grocery store when you wrote that check knowing you didn't have enough in the bank at that moment; or did you know that it would take a day for the check to clear and by then your paycheck would also have cleared? White collar crime simply scales up.

It probably shouldn't; but the laws do not distinguish between large sums of money and small sums of money. Wire fraud is wire fraud; the law does not discriminate between your grandmother transferring $10,000 to Bermuda to avoid taxes and a billionaire transferring $100,000,000 to Bermuda to avoid taxes. There should be such a distinction; but until there is, granny and billionaire are treated the same under the law, the only difference being how many times they transacted.

Then too, there is a distinction in the public mind that as long as "nobody got hurt" the penalty should be less. White collar crimes aren't seen as "hurting anyone" so the perpetrators shouldn't do as much time. A few seasons of watching "American Greed" should disabuse anyone of that particular notion; but most people don't watch that show.
 
2021-07-30 2:47:34 AM  
Good start. Now we need to raise the penalties for doing this shiat through the roof, and fund the farking IRS so they can afford to go after these parasites and their armies of lawyers.
 
2021-07-30 2:49:48 AM  
Piss coming out of every orifice of anyone named trump.
 
2021-07-30 2:56:34 AM  

Ringshadow: [Fark user image image 242x310]

After much consideration of my reaction folder I settled on this one.


Oldies for me.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-07-30 3:00:05 AM  

Gyrfalcon: kkinnison: tougher on drug users then white collar crimes involving hiding millions of income from government taxes

US legal system is backwards

No; it has to do with proving intent. If you are caught with a gram of meth, there is no question that you meant to have it, despite some criminals' imaginative protestations that these are not their pants, or even their socks.

However, financial crimes are not as clear cut. Did you really intend to defraud the grocery store when you wrote that check knowing you didn't have enough in the bank at that moment; or did you know that it would take a day for the check to clear and by then your paycheck would also have cleared? White collar crime simply scales up.

It probably shouldn't; but the laws do not distinguish between large sums of money and small sums of money. Wire fraud is wire fraud; the law does not discriminate between your grandmother transferring $10,000 to Bermuda to avoid taxes and a billionaire transferring $100,000,000 to Bermuda to avoid taxes. There should be such a distinction; but until there is, granny and billionaire are treated the same under the law, the only difference being how many times they transacted.

Then too, there is a distinction in the public mind that as long as "nobody got hurt" the penalty should be less. White collar crimes aren't seen as "hurting anyone" so the perpetrators shouldn't do as much time. A few seasons of watching "American Greed" should disabuse anyone of that particular notion; but most people don't watch that show.


In your Reader's Digest Condensed Version professional opinion, does this bode well going forward as far as accountability for white collar criminals, as a precedent? I hope so. I'd love to see this administration hit corruption fast and hard, while they can.

/have you farkied in green as smart female attorney
 
2021-07-30 3:08:57 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-07-30 3:08:59 AM  

Gyrfalcon: kkinnison: tougher on drug users then white collar crimes involving hiding millions of income from government taxes

US legal system is backwards

No; it has to do with proving intent. If you are caught with a gram of meth, there is no question that you meant to have it, despite some criminals' imaginative protestations that these are not their pants, or even their socks.

However, financial crimes are not as clear cut. Did you really intend to defraud the grocery store when you wrote that check knowing you didn't have enough in the bank at that moment; or did you know that it would take a day for the check to clear and by then your paycheck would also have cleared? White collar crime simply scales up.

It probably shouldn't; but the laws do not distinguish between large sums of money and small sums of money. Wire fraud is wire fraud; the law does not discriminate between your grandmother transferring $10,000 to Bermuda to avoid taxes and a billionaire transferring $100,000,000 to Bermuda to avoid taxes. There should be such a distinction; but until there is, granny and billionaire are treated the same under the law, the only difference being how many times they transacted.

Then too, there is a distinction in the public mind that as long as "nobody got hurt" the penalty should be less. White collar crimes aren't seen as "hurting anyone" so the perpetrators shouldn't do as much time. A few seasons of watching "American Greed" should disabuse anyone of that particular notion; but most people don't watch that show.


One of the interesting things I've learned about tax law in the past year is that most tax crimes (criminal, not civil) have an intent requirement as such that, in order to convict, the government has to prove that you knew what the law was and that you intended to violate it.  In other words "Was that wrong?  Should I not have done that?" is an entirely valid defense in those cases.

Ignorance of the law sometimes is an excuse.  And, as Popehat has said (paraphrased), the likelihood of a crime having such a stringent intent requirement is proportional to the likelihood that the crime will be committed by white men in blue suits.  It's no surprise these laws favor the wealthy, they were written that way for exactly that purpose.

On a related note, we really need to implement the concept of day fines throughout US law.  Make the fines 110% of the amount defrauded/stolen/profit generated from said fraud/theft.  There should be no amount that can be gained by breaking the law that makes it profitable to do so even when caught.
 
2021-07-30 3:12:28 AM  
Panamanian ones only?

Progress moves at a snail's pace apparently.
 
2021-07-30 3:13:30 AM  

TorpedoOrca: Oh noooo, not the Panamanian accounts!

Y'all ever heard about the Turks and Caicos islands?


Yes.  Absolutely lovely especially if you love SCUBA
 
433 [TotalFark]
2021-07-30 4:07:23 AM  

LordJiro: Good start. Now we need to raise the penalties for doing this shiat through the roof, and fund the farking IRS so they can afford to go after these parasites and their armies of lawyers.


Do you know where they keep their armies?
 
2021-07-30 5:02:20 AM  
I mean, the GOP just came out and said that funding the IRS to better help them go after tax cheats was a non-starter. That's great if you've got at least a hundred million, but somehow idiots pulling in less than 50k are cheering it on.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2021-07-30 5:20:00 AM  
I don't see any new ground broken here. The request is basically the same as asking Google for everybody who was near the spot where somebody gave a cop the finger. If you, an innocent person, have information about a suspected criminal the government can order you to turn it over.
 
2021-07-30 5:58:58 AM  

swahnhennessy: I mean, the GOP just came out and said that funding the IRS to better help them go after tax cheats was a non-starter. That's great if you've got at least a hundred million, but somehow idiots pulling in less than 50k are cheering it on.


They'll be laughing when they're billionaires, pleb!
 
2021-07-30 6:09:46 AM  

mjjt: Why not pressure Bermuda and other tax havens to cough up the names and contact details of beneficial owners. And then threaten to confiscate every account that has an American (invariably Delaware) address unless they provide details of real owners of the accounts.


America's beliefs to the contrary, other countries are not obligated to obey requests from your government.
 
2021-07-30 6:26:22 AM  

433: LordJiro: Good start. Now we need to raise the penalties for doing this shiat through the roof, and fund the farking IRS so they can afford to go after these parasites and their armies of lawyers.

Do you know where they keep their armies?


Up their sleevies
 
2021-07-30 6:27:00 AM  

TorpedoOrca: Oh noooo, not the Panamanian accounts!

Y'all ever heard about the Turks and Caicos islands?


The trouble with hiding your money in the caimans is that by the time you want to make a withdrawal it will have been turned into crocodile doodoo.

Dwarf Caiman Babies and Adults-Looking at different Dwarf Caiman.
Youtube V-ui4XmBCis
 
2021-07-30 6:39:17 AM  
The court didn't rule anything, this is just a standard everyday court order, which has a press release about it.

This is like a headline saying, "A court rules that the highway patrol can fine your neighbor for speeding."
 
2021-07-30 6:41:45 AM  

433: Do you know where they keep their armies?


i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2021-07-30 7:19:12 AM  
People, people, people.  Let's not get too excited.

U.S. federal courts are so jam-packed with 30+ years of ultra-far-right-wing nutjobs, you know they're just going to file appeal after appeal until it rises to somebody who golfs with the "right people" and overturns it.  Like always.
 
2021-07-30 7:30:23 AM  
Why do they need "permission" from the courts? Isn't the IRS supposed to go after tax-dodgers and cheats? They need to ask for permission to do the thing they're charged with doing?
 
2021-07-30 7:39:37 AM  

RobotSpider: Why do they need "permission" from the courts? Isn't the IRS supposed to go after tax-dodgers and cheats? They need to ask for permission to do the thing they're charged with doing?


The 4th Amendment.
 
2021-07-30 7:46:10 AM  

kkinnison: tougher on drug users then white collar crimes involving hiding millions of income from government taxes

US legal system is backwards


Because the legal system -- not only in the U.S. but everywhere -- has always been based on the principle of "Them that has, gets."
 
2021-07-30 7:49:38 AM  
Coming out of Southern District of New York. Seems like they recently were looking at a prominent individuals financial records.
 
2021-07-30 7:51:33 AM  

kkinnison: tougher on drug users then white collar crimes involving hiding millions of income from government taxes

US legal system is backwards


Nope, working exactly as designed.
 
2021-07-30 7:51:44 AM  

TorpedoOrca: Oh noooo, not the Panamanian accounts!

Y'all ever heard about the Turks and Caicos islands?


Weren't Mossack Fonseca & Co. setting up shop in Vanatu or one of those Pacific Island nations?
 
2021-07-30 7:53:02 AM  

RobotSpider: Why do they need "permission" from the courts? Isn't the IRS supposed to go after tax-dodgers and cheats? They need to ask for permission to do the thing they're charged with doing?


They still need a warrant.
 
2021-07-30 8:31:02 AM  
Damn it!  Leave these patriots alone.  When I get get over this rough patch, quit the gak for good, and win the lottery, I'm gonna need those tax havens.
 
2021-07-30 9:22:19 AM  

wademh: Coming out of Southern District of New York. Seems like they recently were looking at a prominent individuals financial records.


I think any case that goes through banks goes through the SDNY because so many big banks have offices in Manhattan. For example, the Bannon We Build the Wall case was being prosecuted there. His co-defendants cases are still pending. Obviously, IANAL.
 
2021-07-30 9:54:37 AM  

Rwa2play: mjjt: Why not pressure Bermuda and other tax havens to cough up the names and contact details of beneficial owners. And then threaten to confiscate every account that has an American (invariably Delaware) address unless they provide details of real owners of the accounts.

See, my thing would be what other tax havens can they move their money towards.  I'd cut those potential escape routes first.

Then, and only then would I go for Bermuda and the Cayman Islands and confront them.


Right. The difficulty is that if you clamp down, the accounts you aren't able to seize move elsewhere, and presumably better hidden.

Give them nowhere to go, then bring the hammer down.
 
2021-07-30 9:56:59 AM  

Gyrfalcon: mjjt: Why not pressure Bermuda and other tax havens to cough up the names and contact details of beneficial owners. And then threaten to confiscate every account that has an American (invariably Delaware) address unless they provide details of real owners of the accounts.

Mostly because international law doesn't work that way; but keep shiatting in one hand and dreaming of a global dictatorship in the other, dear.


Since when has America given a flying fark about international law?

If we can invade a country to steal their oil, we can invade one to steal their money.
 
2021-07-30 10:33:46 AM  

Murkanen: RobotSpider: Why do they need "permission" from the courts? Isn't the IRS supposed to go after tax-dodgers and cheats? They need to ask for permission to do the thing they're charged with doing?

They still need a warrant.


What a warrant may look like:
bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.comView Full Size
 
2021-07-30 11:04:09 AM  
YES good stuff.

That will pressure more countries to pursue further Panama Papers prosecutions.

Heck yes.
 
2021-07-30 11:23:48 AM  
Do Sen. Ron Johnson.
 
2021-07-30 11:53:31 AM  

God's Hobo Penis: Murkanen: RobotSpider: Why do they need "permission" from the courts? Isn't the IRS supposed to go after tax-dodgers and cheats? They need to ask for permission to do the thing they're charged with doing?

They still need a warrant.

What a warrant may look like:
[bloximages.newyork1.vip.townnews.com image 850x850]


Is that the world's most pathetic beard or an HPV wart?
 
2021-07-30 1:34:36 PM  

mjjt: Why not pressure Bermuda and other tax havens to cough up the names and contact details of beneficial owners. And then threaten to confiscate every account that has an American (invariably Delaware) address unless they provide details of real owners of the accounts.


Out of pure idle curiosity, what happens when all physical locations of a bank "happen" to blow up in "training exercises" around the world at the same moment in time?
 
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