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(Navy Times)   I wonder what ever happened to the investigation of the USS Bonhomme Richard fire. Oh, my   (navytimes.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, United States Navy, Grand jury, Royal Navy, Jury, Amphibious assault ship, Military, San Diego, junior sailor  
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6633 clicks; posted to Main » on 29 Jul 2021 at 11:04 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-07-29 6:35:33 PM  
Oh my. Someone's in deep shiat.
 
2021-07-29 6:50:16 PM  

AirForceVet: Oh my. Someone's in deep shiat.


Someone's about to Find Out, I'd say.
 
2021-07-29 6:50:41 PM  
That could hurt his career prospects. The navy tens to be a bit funny about totally destroying one of their huge ships.
 
2021-07-29 7:40:22 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: That could hurt his career prospects. The navy tens to be a bit funny about totally destroying one of their huge ships.


The last time someone burned navy ships, we dropped nuclear weapons on them..just sayin.
 
2021-07-29 8:31:18 PM  
This is reminiscent of the USS Miami fire, when a civilian sandblaster/painter set a bunch of rags on fire because he wanted to go home.
He received a 17 year prison sentence and was ordered to pay $400 million in restitution.
If that's what a civilian gets as punishment, can't imagine what the navy is going to do with an enlisted person.
 
2021-07-29 11:07:42 PM  
Before I clicked, I thought "was that the one McCain blew up?"

Wrong ship.
 
2021-07-29 11:11:11 PM  
For some reason I thought we've known this for a while. Maybe we just knew it was arson and not who did it.
 
2021-07-29 11:11:59 PM  

Redh8t: This is reminiscent of the USS Miami fire, when a civilian sandblaster/painter set a bunch of rags on fire because he wanted to go home.
He received a 17 year prison sentence and was ordered to pay $400 million in restitution.
If that's what a civilian gets as punishment, can't imagine what the navy is going to do with an enlisted person.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-07-29 11:13:03 PM  

kozlo: I thought "was that the one McCain blew up?"


McCain blew up?
 
2021-07-29 11:13:37 PM  

Redh8t: This is reminiscent of the USS Miami fire, when a civilian sandblaster/painter set a bunch of rags on fire because he wanted to go home.
He received a 17 year prison sentence and was ordered to pay $400 million in restitution.
If that's what a civilian gets as punishment, can't imagine what the navy is going to do with an enlisted person.


One of the NAVCONBRIGs is getting a new long term roommate.
 
2021-07-29 11:13:54 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: That could hurt his career prospects. The navy tens to be a bit funny about totally destroying one of their huge ships.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-07-29 11:14:18 PM  
The USS Miami was 700m.  The Bonhomme Richard restitution is probably a billion and a half at least.  I am sure after a lengthy sentence the sailor will be able to make a good portion of that up....
 
2021-07-29 11:14:37 PM  

kozlo: Before I clicked, I thought "was that the one McCain blew up?"

Wrong ship.


And only a 53 year difference.
 
2021-07-29 11:16:57 PM  
One of the things I never quite got my head around regarding the destruction of the Bomhomme...

One generally views navy ships as being, well, pretty much gigantic ass hunks of mostly steel.

Other than the fuel tanks, what was burning?
 
2021-07-29 11:17:04 PM  
"Bonhomme"?

Isn't that French for pretty boy"?
 
2021-07-29 11:18:50 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: That could hurt his career prospects. The navy tens to be a bit funny about totally destroying one of their huge ships.


Nah, they had pardons for the republicans who burned a submarine, no doubt a KKK member lit the match.
 
2021-07-29 11:19:56 PM  
Article doesn't say what the cause of the fire was. Was it deliberately set? Or was it some dumbass 19 year old kid flicking a butt into a bad corner?
 
2021-07-29 11:21:59 PM  

maddan: Carter Pewterschmidt: That could hurt his career prospects. The navy tens to be a bit funny about totally destroying one of their huge ships.

The last time someone burned navy ships, we dropped nuclear weapons on them..just sayin.


Umm. I think you skipped a burning or 2.
 
2021-07-29 11:22:37 PM  
The only non-spam comment is "Is his name is [sic] Muhammad?" SMH.
 
2021-07-29 11:23:33 PM  
Dude's farked.
 
2021-07-29 11:23:39 PM  

Deathfrogg: Article doesn't say what the cause of the fire was. Was it deliberately set? Or was it some dumbass 19 year old kid flicking a butt into a bad corner?


Last I heard it was arson.
 
2021-07-29 11:23:44 PM  

erik-k: One of the things I never quite got my head around regarding the destruction of the Bomhomme...

One generally views navy ships as being, well, pretty much gigantic ass hunks of mostly steel.

Other than the fuel tanks, what was burning?


All sorts of wiring and pipes.  Plus you get enough heat and the steel can take serious damage.

armytimes.comView Full Size
 
2021-07-29 11:24:15 PM  
*ouch*

a Seaman Apprentice?  That is, E-2.  the second lowest (E-1 being the lowest) paygrade.  He's probably under two years of service.  And even if he isn't, the *entire* Armed Forces tops out E-2 pay at $2,001 per month.  There aren't any (hopefully) 11yr, 15yr, 19yr E-2s in the service (but one never knows).

https://militarybenefits.info/2021-mi​l​itary-pay-charts/

gonna take a long, long, lllllllllongggggggg farking time to pay that off.
 
2021-07-29 11:24:59 PM  
How the hell could this happen? If the ship was this fragile to be destroyed at dock, what would happen in a battle? An older ship like the Hornet took multiple bombs, torpedoes, and kamikaze attacks before going down.
 
2021-07-29 11:27:45 PM  

Daddy's Big Pink Man-Squirrel: "Bonhomme"?

Isn't that French for pretty boy"?


I am to lazy to google "Bonhomme" but the ships nickname is (was) The Boney Dick.
 
2021-07-29 11:28:08 PM  

erik-k: One of the things I never quite got my head around regarding the destruction of the Bomhomme...

One generally views navy ships as being, well, pretty much gigantic ass hunks of mostly steel.

Other than the fuel tanks, what was burning?


Paint, anything flammable. The on board The onboard fire suppression system was shut off for the refit because of welding and such. The ship also had a lot of aluminum construction like the super structure was mostly aluminum hence the masts sagged. they also dumped a lot of seawater on it to the point that she started to list pretty good and seawater doesn't do anything any good.
 
2021-07-29 11:28:18 PM  
Seamen apprentice was the worst TV spin-off ever.
 
2021-07-29 11:28:57 PM  

Pointy Tail of Satan: How the hell could this happen? If the ship was this fragile to be destroyed at dock, what would happen in a battle? An older ship like the Hornet took multiple bombs, torpedoes, and kamikaze attacks before going down.


In active service, you have an entire crew who's basic training is in fire and damage control.  BHR and Miami were both in dock with no one aboard but a handful of crew and cleaning contractors.  The best way to stop a ship-board fire is to get people actively controlling it as soon as it starts.

And I should add, I'm coming strictly from a historian's perspective, I'm more familiar with damage control on Akagiand Yorktown than modern vessels.  But the same basic principals apply.  I'm sure our Navy vets can speak to modern specifics.
 
2021-07-29 11:29:29 PM  

Pointy Tail of Satan: How the hell could this happen? If the ship was this fragile to be destroyed at dock, what would happen in a battle? An older ship like the Hornet took multiple bombs, torpedoes, and kamikaze attacks before going down.


The Hornet was at general quarters in battle, every hatch shut, every compartment isolated. The BHR was undergoing an overhaul and was wide open to allow access for equipment, workers, cables, etc. so the fire spread in ways not possible if the ship were underway.
 
2021-07-29 11:31:10 PM  

Pointy Tail of Satan: How the hell could this happen? If the ship was this fragile to be destroyed at dock, what would happen in a battle? An older ship like the Hornet took multiple bombs, torpedoes, and kamikaze attacks before going down.


At dock they shut down everything. No fire control, fire doors open wide, and lots of flammable stuff lying around on pallets as they refurbish the ship. And almost nobody on board to fight a fire if it breaks out. Going through maintenance is the most dangerous time for a ship
 
2021-07-29 11:31:51 PM  

auntedrie: Daddy's Big Pink Man-Squirrel: "Bonhomme"?

Isn't that French for pretty boy"?

I am to lazy to google "Bonhomme" but the ships nickname is (was) The Boney Dick.


It translates to "Good Man Richard".  Ben Franklin's "Poor Richard's Almanac" was published in France as "Les Maximes du Bonhomme Richard". When King Louis gifted John Paul Jones a ship, it was given the name as an homage to Franklin.
 
2021-07-29 11:32:52 PM  

jim32rr: Redh8t: This is reminiscent of the USS Miami fire, when a civilian sandblaster/painter set a bunch of rags on fire because he wanted to go home.
He received a 17 year prison sentence and was ordered to pay $400 million in restitution.
If that's what a civilian gets as punishment, can't imagine what the navy is going to do with an enlisted person.

[Fark user image image 425x239]


Meanwhile Northrop oopsie poopsies an extra 10 billion a year on their contracts.
 
2021-07-29 11:33:30 PM  

Pointy Tail of Satan: How the hell could this happen? If the ship was this fragile to be destroyed at dock, what would happen in a battle? An older ship like the Hornet took multiple bombs, torpedoes, and kamikaze attacks before going down.


It's tied to the dock with minimal crew, all the bulkhead doors fully open for work access and construction materials all about. They're not at all comparable situations.
 
2021-07-29 11:38:12 PM  

UNC_Samurai: erik-k: One of the things I never quite got my head around regarding the destruction of the Bomhomme...

One generally views navy ships as being, well, pretty much gigantic ass hunks of mostly steel.

Other than the fuel tanks, what was burning?

All sorts of wiring and pipes.  Plus you get enough heat and the steel can take serious damage.

[armytimes.com image 800x667]


Oh, certainly if you get it hot enough long enough steel gets weak as butter and stays about as soft as butter once it cools... so the piping was all/mostly plastic? Yikes.

rickythepenguin: *ouch*

a Seaman Apprentice?  That is, E-2.  the second lowest (E-1 being the lowest) paygrade.  He's probably under two years of service.  And even if he isn't, the *entire* Armed Forces tops out E-2 pay at $2,001 per month.  There aren't any (hopefully) 11yr, 15yr, 19yr E-2s in the service (but one never knows).

https://militarybenefits.info/2021-mil​itary-pay-charts/

gonna take a long, long, lllllllllongggggggg farking time to pay that off.


The monetary damages are a ceremony for show, just like California suing the dipshiat who started the huge Yosemite fire in 2019 for $150M (iirc) of firefighting costs. "We can't put you in jail but we can bankrupt you for your massively destructive stupidity." They know that obviously an enlisted rando does not have four hundred million dollars lying round.
 
2021-07-29 11:38:25 PM  

WyDave: Pointy Tail of Satan: How the hell could this happen? If the ship was this fragile to be destroyed at dock, what would happen in a battle? An older ship like the Hornet took multiple bombs, torpedoes, and kamikaze attacks before going down.

The Hornet was at general quarters in battle, every hatch shut, every compartment isolated. The BHR was undergoing an overhaul and was wide open to allow access for equipment, workers, cables, etc. so the fire spread in ways not possible if the ship were underway.


Yeah, when an American carrier spotted incoming aircraft, step 1 was to dump whatever was in the aviation fuel lines and flood it with CO2.

The Japanese procedure was to just shut off the pumps.  Having av-gas in the lines was one of about a dozen things that made the explosions on Kaga/Akagi/etc. that much worse, whereas Yorktownmaintained operations after being hit both at Coral Sea and the first time at Midway.

Lexington at Coral Sea, being an older design, had a problem venting heat/smoke/fumes, which led to a fire in torpedo storage getting out of control and it cooked off the warheads all at once.
 
2021-07-29 11:38:35 PM  

rickythepenguin: *ouch*

a Seaman Apprentice?  That is, E-2.  the second lowest (E-1 being the lowest) paygrade.  He's probably under two years of service.  And even if he isn't, the *entire* Armed Forces tops out E-2 pay at $2,001 per month.  There aren't any (hopefully) 11yr, 15yr, 19yr E-2s in the service (but one never knows).

https://militarybenefits.info/2021-mil​itary-pay-charts/

gonna take a long, long, lllllllllongggggggg farking time to pay that off.


That's still about $2,001 per month more than he'll be earning during his impending 20-year assignment to Naval Station Forfeiture Of All Pay And Allowances.
 
2021-07-29 11:39:14 PM  
I would be interested in whether it was arson.

If it wasn'tarson and was just negligence, I would say his superiors are also in deep shiat.  Nobody that junior should ever be in a position to make a mistake that destroys a whole ship.

There's a story told in nautical circles (possibly apocryphal) of a marine board that found that a ship went aground due to the gross incompetence of the helmsman, who made an absolutely unforgivable blunder.  But the marine board refused to punish him on grounds that:

"Under no circumstances should the cabin boy have been at the wheel and the only person on the bridge"
 
2021-07-29 11:39:28 PM  

ChrisDe: Seamen apprentice was the worst TV spin-off ever.


that movie cost me twelve bucks.
 
2021-07-29 11:41:07 PM  

UNC_Samurai: erik-k: One of the things I never quite got my head around regarding the destruction of the Bomhomme...

One generally views navy ships as being, well, pretty much gigantic ass hunks of mostly steel.

Other than the fuel tanks, what was burning?

All sorts of wiring and pipes.  Plus you get enough heat and the steel can take serious damage.

[armytimes.com image 800x667]


Paint and plastic.
 
2021-07-29 11:41:37 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: That could hurt his career prospects. The navy tens to be a bit funny about totally destroying one of their huge ships.


Well, at least he's got a bright future in writing. How to Burn Huge Ships will be the bestselling new sequel to How to Avoid Huge Ships.
 
2021-07-29 11:42:16 PM  
"Congratulations, Ensign Johnson! You're now the sole, unarmed diplomat to Somalia..."
 
2021-07-29 11:43:29 PM  
Deathfrogg: ... Or was it some dumbass 19 year old kid flicking a butt into a bad corner?


My eyesight is diminishing. I had to read that a few times before I saw the word "flicking" correctly.
 
2021-07-29 11:45:18 PM  

princhester: I would be interested in whether it was arson.

If it wasn'tarson and was just negligence, I would say his superiors are also in deep shiat.  Nobody that junior should ever be in a position to make a mistake that destroys a whole ship.

There's a story told in nautical circles (possibly apocryphal) of a marine board that found that a ship went aground due to the gross incompetence of the helmsman, who made an absolutely unforgivable blunder.  But the marine board refused to punish him on grounds that:

"Under no circumstances should the cabin boy have been at the wheel and the only person on the bridge"


The primary charge is aggravated arson
 
2021-07-29 11:47:54 PM  
johnny_vegas:

The primary charge is aggravated arson

I appreciate that but often the primary charge is trumped up nonsense designed just to pressure the defendant to plead to the secondary charges.
 
2021-07-29 11:48:20 PM  

rickythepenguin: *ouch*

a Seaman Apprentice?  That is, E-2.  the second lowest (E-1 being the lowest) paygrade.  He's probably under two years of service.  And even if he isn't, the *entire* Armed Forces tops out E-2 pay at $2,001 per month.  There aren't any (hopefully) 11yr, 15yr, 19yr E-2s in the service (but one never knows).

https://militarybenefits.info/2021-mil​itary-pay-charts/

gonna take a long, long, lllllllllongggggggg farking time to pay that off.


Have met a couple of 15+ year E-1 types before.  It's possible to fark up hard enough to lose all rank and be thankful you've been given opportunity to avoid visiting Leavenworth.
 
2021-07-29 11:51:25 PM  

princhester: johnny_vegas:

The primary charge is aggravated arson

I appreciate that but often the primary charge is trumped up nonsense designed just to pressure the defendant to plead to the secondary charges.


Yep, true they will charge him(?) with anything they think they can make stick but I seriously doubt they would go down this path for negligence, particularly with the "aggravated" qualifier to the arson charge
 
2021-07-29 11:52:34 PM  

princhester: johnny_vegas:

The primary charge is aggravated arson

I appreciate that but often the primary charge is trumped up nonsense designed just to pressure the defendant to plead to the secondary charges.


You're thinking of civilian courts. Seaman Apprentice Flatiron is being tried in a military court.
 
2021-07-29 11:54:15 PM  

King Something: princhester: johnny_vegas:

The primary charge is aggravated arson

I appreciate that but often the primary charge is trumped up nonsense designed just to pressure the defendant to plead to the secondary charges.

You're thinking of civilian courts. Seaman Apprentice Flatiron is being tried in a military court.


Military lawyers will also seek to pile on charges to facilitate a plea deal but from the cheap seats here I don't see why they would for this case.
 
2021-07-29 11:55:04 PM  

erik-k: They know that obviously an enlisted rando does not have four hundred million dollars lying round.


Just want to interject that I love the word "rando" has entered the English language. I forget when I heard it first, but it is a great word.
 
2021-07-29 11:56:23 PM  

ChrisDe: Seamen apprentice was the worst TV spin-off ever.


They thought they'd make money hand over fist, but they pulled a boner and went limp on the bottom line. Just too much innuendo in a U-boat.
 
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