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(Twitter) Video Carl Sagan trolled Star Wars in real time on The Tonight Show with Johnny Carson, and the results were hilarious   (twitter.com) divider line
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1105 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 27 Jul 2021 at 11:20 PM (12 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



60 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-07-27 6:29:58 PM  
Original Tweet:

 
2021-07-27 8:03:46 PM  
Anti-Wookie discrimination. Carl needs a medal named after him.
 
2021-07-27 8:55:18 PM  
Why assume that the racial mix on some planets in a galaxy far, far away would be the same as ours?
 
2021-07-27 9:00:56 PM  

bingethinker: Why assume that the racial mix on some planets in a galaxy far, far away would be the same as ours?


You have no idea what the function of skin color is.
 
2021-07-27 9:06:10 PM  
Carson was like "Wow long until I can get this douchebag off the couch?"
 
2021-07-27 9:25:36 PM  

cretinbob: bingethinker: Why assume that the racial mix on some planets in a galaxy far, far away would be the same as ours?

You have no idea what the function of skin color is.


You do know star wars was 'fiction' don't you? It was also mostly filmed in England for the studio bits with people.
 
2021-07-27 9:32:48 PM  

Mugato: Carson was like "Wow long until I can get this douchebag off the couch?"


And I'd bet that Sagan walked into that theater thinking, "I came here prepared to talk about the Pioneer Venus mission and these clowns are probably going to ask me about Star Wars."
 
2021-07-27 9:39:22 PM  
Chewbacca didn't get a medal because he was just the co-pilot. Han shouldn't really have gotten a medal either, he showed up at the last minute and shot one TIE-Fighter in the back, didn't even get Vader, could have ended the whole trilogy.
 
2021-07-27 10:29:32 PM  

optikeye: cretinbob: bingethinker: Why assume that the racial mix on some planets in a galaxy far, far away would be the same as ours?

You have no idea what the function of skin color is.

You do know star wars was 'fiction' don't you? It was also mostly filmed in England for the studio bits with people.


That doesn't change the fact that white people wouldn't likely exist on Tatooine
 
2021-07-27 10:34:28 PM  
There's nothing wrong with thought experiments as long as you remember to think.
Absolutely there's a lot of missing information, but look at people who live in deserts here.
 
2021-07-27 10:49:26 PM  

cretinbob: optikeye: cretinbob: bingethinker: Why assume that the racial mix on some planets in a galaxy far, far away would be the same as ours?

You have no idea what the function of skin color is.

You do know star wars was 'fiction' don't you? It was also mostly filmed in England for the studio bits with people.

That doesn't change the fact that white people wouldn't likely exist on Tatooine


Well, you could say the same thing about Florida...but DAMN there's a lot white people living there.

Technically. PEOPLE *humans* didn't exist on tatooine. They were settlers there.
Now, tell me about Blue people and Thrawn.
 
2021-07-27 10:56:37 PM  

cretinbob: Absolutely there's a lot of missing information, but look at people who live in deserts here.


Fark user imageView Full Size


IT's in Arizona...a Desert...Go on guess the color of most of skin of the people living there.
 
2021-07-27 11:10:02 PM  

bingethinker: Why assume that the racial mix on some planets in a galaxy far, far away would be the same as ours?


Yes, that was Carl's point. Well done
 
2021-07-27 11:36:40 PM  
all i know is carl sagan's sci-fi book SUCKED
 
2021-07-27 11:36:49 PM  
optikeye:

Technically. PEOPLE *humans* didn't exist on tatooine. They were settlers there.
Now, tell me about Blue people and Thrawn.


AH Animated - Gavin Explains "The Star War"
Youtube JAFOqgMB2tY
 
2021-07-27 11:39:20 PM  

cretinbob: That doesn't change the fact that white people wouldn't likely exist on Tatooine


Ah yes, of course, because migration and inter-species diversity would be impossible in a multiplanetary society with faster-than-light space travel.
 
2021-07-27 11:40:34 PM  

cretinbob: bingethinker: Why assume that the racial mix on some planets in a galaxy far, far away would be the same as ours?

You have no idea what the function of skin color is.


Yes I do. And why assume that all planets have the same range of climates that we do?
 
2021-07-27 11:42:11 PM  

Mugato: Chewbacca didn't get a medal because he was just the co-pilot. Han shouldn't really have gotten a medal either, he showed up at the last minute and shot one TIE-Fighter in the back, didn't even get Vader, could have ended the whole trilogy.


The other take was Wookies do not like clothing, decorations, or jewelry. He doesn't wear clothing and the only 'body' item he wears he uses is weaponry holding.
But then again...after the fact geekdom is very interesting.
 
2021-07-27 11:46:17 PM  

bingethinker: cretinbob: bingethinker: Why assume that the racial mix on some planets in a galaxy far, far away would be the same as ours?

You have no idea what the function of skin color is.

Yes I do. And why assume that all planets have the same range of climates that we do?


In most Science Fiction all the planets are mono climates. Like there's all "water planets"...or "ice planets".."Jungle Planets"..etc..etc. And apparently the entire farken planet is like that.
Which maybe common, I mean look at Europa and Venus and most of Mars.
 
2021-07-27 11:47:30 PM  

optikeye: bingethinker: cretinbob: bingethinker: Why assume that the racial mix on some planets in a galaxy far, far away would be the same as ours?

You have no idea what the function of skin color is.

Yes I do. And why assume that all planets have the same range of climates that we do?

In most Science Fiction all the planets are mono climates. Like there's all "water planets"...or "ice planets".."Jungle Planets"..etc..etc. And apparently the entire farken planet is like that.
Which maybe common, I mean look at Europa and Venus and most of Mars.


Don't forget the candy planet or vegetable planet from Mario games.
 
2021-07-27 11:53:08 PM  

cretinbob: optikeye: cretinbob: bingethinker: Why assume that the racial mix on some planets in a galaxy far, far away would be the same as ours?

You have no idea what the function of skin color is.

You do know star wars was 'fiction' don't you? It was also mostly filmed in England for the studio bits with people.

That doesn't change the fact that white people wouldn't likely exist on Tatooine


Humans weren't native to Tatooine.  In fact Shmi and Anakin weren't originally from Tatooine, they were brought there as slaves.
 
2021-07-27 11:54:34 PM  

Summoner101: Don't forget the candy planet or vegetable planet from Mario games.


i.ytimg.comView Full Size

HMM HOW DID THIS CAKE EVOLVE HMM

is why carl sagan farking sucks
 
2021-07-28 12:11:26 AM  
It's.
A.
Movie.

FFS
 
2021-07-28 12:14:14 AM  

cretinbob: optikeye: cretinbob: bingethinker: Why assume that the racial mix on some planets in a galaxy far, far away would be the same as ours?

You have no idea what the function of skin color is.

You do know star wars was 'fiction' don't you? It was also mostly filmed in England for the studio bits with people.

That doesn't change the fact that white people wouldn't likely exist on Tatooine


they aren't the natives, no one thinks they are the natives
 
2021-07-28 12:20:59 AM  

optikeye: But then again...after the fact geekdom is very interesting.


You misspelled "dumb."
 
2021-07-28 12:24:10 AM  
For my taste, the best thing Carson put out was the time he conspired with James Randi to expose/debunk Uri Geller:

Unforgettable Uri Geller Appearance on Carson Tonight Show - 08/01/1973
Youtube zD7OgAdCObs
 
2021-07-28 12:28:05 AM  

Mugato: Carson was like "Wow long until I can get this douchebag off the couch?"


Not at all.  He had Sagan on the show several times during its run.  You didn't get multiple appearances on the Tonight Show unless Carson liked you.

Here, he's listening to Sagan with genuine interest, but guarded, because he was a consummate showman and always had to be intuitive about losing the crowd.  Sagan saved himself with the Wookiee joke, so Carson didn't have to.
 
2021-07-28 12:58:56 AM  

cretinbob: bingethinker: Why assume that the racial mix on some planets in a galaxy far, far away would be the same as ours?

You have no idea what the function of skin color is.



Evolution 101:

sruk.org.ukView Full Size


- In areas with a lot of sun exposure (e.g around the equator) there is a evolutionary benefit in having dark skin (dark skin blocks more UV and is less susceptible to DNA damage from excessive sun exposure, so less likely to develop potentially lethal skin cancer)

However, sunlight (UV) also is what enables your body to create its own Vitamin D, which is what you need for healthy bone & muscle development. In Northern regions without a lot of sun, light skin is beneficial because having dark skin coudl block too much UV and lead to vitamin D deficiencies: evolutionary pressure towards lighter skin.

Even though these aren't huge differences, after thousands of generations these tiny benefits and disadvantages start adding up, and having a very significant effect on the average prevailing skin tones in those regions.

/Of course anyone CAN live pretty much anywhere, but a white skinned person really should be using tons of sunscreen and keep to the shade if they move to Africa, while Black people living in Europe could probably use vitamin D supplements. YMMV.
 
2021-07-28 1:00:38 AM  

Big_Doofus: It's.
A.
Movie.

FFS


Carl was a little strange. He tried to sue Apple because they code-named a product in development after him. It was a *code* name, those names never get used for the product itself and disappear when the product is launched. Anyway, he made such a fuss about it that the engineers ended up changing the code name from Sagan to Butthole Astronomer.
 
2021-07-28 1:04:55 AM  

optikeye: IT's in Arizona...a Desert...Go on guess the color of most of skin of the people living there.


either a sickly grey or lobster red, depending on whether they spend most of their time indoors or outdoors.
 
2021-07-28 1:13:21 AM  

Excelsior: cretinbob: bingethinker: Why assume that the racial mix on some planets in a galaxy far, far away would be the same as ours?

You have no idea what the function of skin color is.


Evolution 101:

[sruk.org.uk image 449x332]

- In areas with a lot of sun exposure (e.g around the equator) there is a evolutionary benefit in having dark skin (dark skin blocks more UV and is less susceptible to DNA damage from excessive sun exposure, so less likely to develop potentially lethal skin cancer)

However, sunlight (UV) also is what enables your body to create its own Vitamin D, which is what you need for healthy bone & muscle development. In Northern regions without a lot of sun, light skin is beneficial because having dark skin coudl block too much UV and lead to vitamin D deficiencies: evolutionary pressure towards lighter skin.

Even though these aren't huge differences, after thousands of generations these tiny benefits and disadvantages start adding up, and having a very significant effect on the average prevailing skin tones in those regions.

/Of course anyone CAN live pretty much anywhere, but a white skinned person really should be using tons of sunscreen and keep to the shade if they move to Africa, while Black people living in Europe could probably use vitamin D supplements. YMMV.


A) Sagan's cultural point is not wrong

B) your point doesn't preclude white people native to a desert planet as it is a function of the atmosphere, not the desert. There could just as easily be a desert planet with a more blocking atmosphere either through thickness or composition.
 
2021-07-28 2:03:41 AM  

dodecahedron: Anyway, he made such a fuss about it that the engineers ended up changing the code name from Sagan to Butthole Astronomer.


Ma'am, as a Butthole Astronomer, I must say that's the fullest moon I've ever seen. I'm giving you a star.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go study some astronomy. For research.
 
2021-07-28 2:45:22 AM  

Spice Must Flow: dodecahedron: Anyway, he made such a fuss about it that the engineers ended up changing the code name from Sagan to Butthole Astronomer.

Ma'am, as a Butthole Astronomer, I must say that's the fullest moon I've ever seen. I'm giving you a star.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm going to go study some astronomy. For research.


No asteroids?
 
2021-07-28 3:57:34 AM  

optikeye: cretinbob: bingethinker: Why assume that the racial mix on some planets in a galaxy far, far away would be the same as ours?

You have no idea what the function of skin color is.

You do know star wars was 'fiction' don't you? It was also mostly filmed in England for the studio bits with people.


Because we all know there were no black people in England in the 70s.

Also "we made all people in our fictional universe white" is not exactly a defense against racism accusations.
 
2021-07-28 4:03:47 AM  

Original: Original Tweet:

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way back in the day, when I first saw Star Wars it pissed me off that the Wookie did not get a medal.
 
2021-07-28 4:55:06 AM  
Skin color is about how much vitamin K one needs to absorb through the skin.

Human types in Star Wars had trouble manufacturing enough typically, albeit with some token exceptions.

Maybe their bodily processes were less efficient than ours, maybe they had almost universally more indoor lifestyles and got less sun (even on Tatooine), perhaps the solar radiation generated by most stars (besides ours) is impractical for aiding in vitamin K synthesis, or even it could be that it was a movie and they regretfully didn't care about this and cast mostly white actors just because F you.

Regardless, here on Earth if we continue being indoorsy critters there will be few white people left in 200 years (due to mixed races breeding), and there will be nothing except white people in 1,000 years due to micro evolution.

I don't see how it matters though.
 
2021-07-28 6:27:53 AM  
When all the characters are white:  Hey we're just picking the best actors available
When some of the characters are not white:  OMG PANDERING SJW CRAP
 
2021-07-28 6:38:39 AM  
It's also strange they spoke English. But of course that's because it's a movie and they're trying to make things understandable for the audience instead of showing these things in their most realistic form.
 
2021-07-28 7:01:48 AM  
Um, you know guys, these complaints were why they had to
wrangle in Billy Dee Williams for "Empire" and Samuel Jackson for the Prequels.

/also for fun, read the original reviews of "Star Wars" back in '77.
they didn't exactly lavish full gushing praise of it.
//funny how it seemed he was the genesis of the wookie/medal question.
///he was being tongue in cheek i think.
 
2021-07-28 7:07:44 AM  

odinsposse: It's also strange they spoke English. But of course that's because it's a movie and they're trying to make things understandable for the audience instead of showing these things in their most realistic form.


And hiring English Thespians is Hollywood shorthand for "cold efficient evil" as seen
in those sword and sandal epics, where all the Romans were British.
 
2021-07-28 7:20:23 AM  

moothemagiccow: all i know is carl sagan's sci-fi book SUCKED


What in the holy fark are you talking about?
 
2021-07-28 7:29:09 AM  
Sagan had a whole thing about how aliens would likely look NOTHING like humans. A lot of things have the whole 4 limbs with one bone segment, followed by a 2 bones segment, and then 5 fingers at the end, that is super common throughout the animal kingdom. Like how different octopi are from humans, with their completely different nervous systems and appendages being vastly different. He explains a little of that in the 70's Cosmos, about how aliens might exist in the upper atmosphere of Jupiter, being vastly different to anything we could have seen before while also making chemical sense.

So him saying that star wars is a little unrealistic because all the aliens are human shaped and speak English (with an English accent) is probably really holding back.
 
2021-07-28 7:31:54 AM  

Maker_of_Roads: moothemagiccow: all i know is carl sagan's sci-fi book SUCKED

What in the holy fark are you talking about?


"Contact". They made a movie with Jodie Foster out of it. I actually liked it, but it's certainly not in my top twenty.
 
2021-07-28 7:42:24 AM  

padraig: Maker_of_Roads: moothemagiccow: all i know is carl sagan's sci-fi book SUCKED

What in the holy fark are you talking about?

"Contact". They made a movie with Jodie Foster out of it. I actually liked it, but it's certainly not in my top twenty.


That's what I was figuring. I was confused, because I thought it was really good. The bit at the end about baked-in revelations was farking genius.
 
2021-07-28 8:04:25 AM  

Mugato: Carson was like "Wow long until I can get this douchebag off the couch?"


he was one of Carson's favorite guests...he made you think (well..obviously not you PERSONALLY it seems...)
 
2021-07-28 8:04:45 AM  

cretinbob: optikeye: cretinbob: bingethinker: Why assume that the racial mix on some planets in a galaxy far, far away would be the same as ours?

You have no idea what the function of skin color is.

You do know star wars was 'fiction' don't you? It was also mostly filmed in England for the studio bits with people.

That doesn't change the fact that white people wouldn't likely exist on Tatooine


Sure they can. Just ask those Atreides losers.

/ducks
 
2021-07-28 9:22:51 AM  
But the natives on Tatooine were shown and who knows what the Tusken Raiders looked like under their masks
 
2021-07-28 9:32:35 AM  

cocozilla: Mugato: Carson was like "Wow long until I can get this douchebag off the couch?"

he was one of Carson's favorite guests...he made you think (well..obviously not you PERSONALLY it seems...)


Carson was a serious amateur astronomer; he and Sagan were... not necessarily buddies, but they had a very cordial relationship. In fact, according to Keay Davidson's biography of Sagan, Carson was the first person to call Sagan's wife with condolences after Sagan's death.
 
2021-07-28 9:44:32 AM  

cretinbob: optikeye: cretinbob: bingethinker: Why assume that the racial mix on some planets in a galaxy far, far away would be the same as ours?

You have no idea what the function of skin color is.

You do know star wars was 'fiction' don't you? It was also mostly filmed in England for the studio bits with people.

That doesn't change the fact that white people wouldn't likely exist on Tatooine


Does anybody have *any* information about the UV output of Tatoo 1 and Tatoo 2 or the UV absorption capacity of Tatooine's atmosphere to have *any* basis for discussion on this topic or are we just gonna slap a bunch of assumptions in place to make some irrelevant points about British society nearly half-a-century ago?
 
2021-07-28 10:15:54 AM  
It reminded of funny articles Isaac Asimov wrote for TV Guide in the 60's. He reviewed "My Favorite Martian" and "My Living Doll" when they came out.

I read them back in the 80's. I thought they were pretty funny. I haven't found them online to see if they hold up over the years.
 
2021-07-28 10:24:14 AM  

AdrienVeidt: cretinbob: optikeye: cretinbob: bingethinker: Why assume that the racial mix on some planets in a galaxy far, far away would be the same as ours?

You have no idea what the function of skin color is.

You do know star wars was 'fiction' don't you? It was also mostly filmed in England for the studio bits with people.

That doesn't change the fact that white people wouldn't likely exist on Tatooine

Does anybody have *any* information about the UV output of Tatoo 1 and Tatoo 2 or the UV absorption capacity of Tatooine's atmosphere to have *any* basis for discussion on this topic or are we just gonna slap a bunch of assumptions in place to make some irrelevant points about British society nearly half-a-century ago?


OR any information about the aliens in the Star Wars galaxy having UV-reactive melanin in the first place?
 
2021-07-28 10:49:36 AM  

The_Philosopher_King: It reminded of funny articles Isaac Asimov wrote for TV Guide in the 60's. He reviewed "My Favorite Martian" and "My Living Doll" when they came out.

I read them back in the 80's. I thought they were pretty funny. I haven't found them online to see if they hold up over the years.


My Living Doll is all the misogyny you'd anticipate from the period, but still fun to watch.

I've only seen a few episodes, I'll have to hunt down more someday.
 
2021-07-28 10:58:26 AM  
...sigh... Sagan didn't get Star Wars, fine.

"All where white" - sure in the first film, I guess. Was there anybody of color, anywhere? Obviously, it was not intentional... but let's talk about a few other points he made:

1. "...A galaxy far, far away" - this was, even in the early drafts, intended to be a way to reference the story like a fairy tale told by some far flung future race of a past history and society long forgotten. The "Whills".  The movie is space fantasy, so it can take huge liberties with silly things like facts. Let's assume this is a stylized version of the Milky Way, in a far flung future, and the scrolling prologue is informing the viewer from an even farther flung future, in another galaxy.

2. "Humans everywhere" - who is to say all those aliens weren't originally humans? What if humans, in a diaspora to populate the greater galaxy, genetically modified themselves to adapt to other worlds and environments?

3. "Humans in charge" - well, clearly the Empire is very human-centric. You could argue that Lucas retconned the whole thing, but it really fits in nicely, doesn't it? Palpatine clearly has a great disdain for non-humans, and probably, like another, more recent populist wannabe tyrant, could leverage xenophobia to cement support among the less compassionate humans.

The mistake Carl Sagan makes here is thinking Star Wars was intended as hard science fiction. It was not, any more than Lord Of The Rings was intended as a historical saga.

I get it if he just wanted to make a point of the lack of black people in A New Hope, and it's certainly fair... but Sagan needs to fire his comedy writer, because whoever came up with that bit was terrible at it.
 
2021-07-28 11:35:11 AM  

moothemagiccow: all i know is carl sagan's sci-fi book SUCKED


Yeah, that's justification for a ban.  Make it happen, Drew!
 
2021-07-28 1:26:06 PM  
Carl was a genius, but he could be a bastard in real life --according to his biography and those closest to him.

i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2021-07-28 2:01:02 PM  

AdrienVeidt: AdrienVeidt: cretinbob: optikeye: cretinbob: bingethinker: Why assume that the racial mix on some planets in a galaxy far, far away would be the same as ours?

You have no idea what the function of skin color is.

You do know star wars was 'fiction' don't you? It was also mostly filmed in England for the studio bits with people.

That doesn't change the fact that white people wouldn't likely exist on Tatooine

Does anybody have *any* information about the UV output of Tatoo 1 and Tatoo 2 or the UV absorption capacity of Tatooine's atmosphere to have *any* basis for discussion on this topic or are we just gonna slap a bunch of assumptions in place to make some irrelevant points about British society nearly half-a-century ago?

OR any information about the aliens in the Star Wars galaxy having UV-reactive melanin in the first place?


That's going a bit far to justify not hiring black actors.

"Dude, I read the world-building Bible, and there is nothing in here to justify an all-white universe !"
"Crap, you're right ! Quick, to the typewriter !"
 
2021-07-28 2:16:56 PM  

padraig: AdrienVeidt: AdrienVeidt: cretinbob: optikeye: cretinbob: bingethinker: Why assume that the racial mix on some planets in a galaxy far, far away would be the same as ours?

You have no idea what the function of skin color is.

You do know star wars was 'fiction' don't you? It was also mostly filmed in England for the studio bits with people.

That doesn't change the fact that white people wouldn't likely exist on Tatooine

Does anybody have *any* information about the UV output of Tatoo 1 and Tatoo 2 or the UV absorption capacity of Tatooine's atmosphere to have *any* basis for discussion on this topic or are we just gonna slap a bunch of assumptions in place to make some irrelevant points about British society nearly half-a-century ago?

OR any information about the aliens in the Star Wars galaxy having UV-reactive melanin in the first place?

That's going a bit far to justify not hiring black actors.


I'm not justifying jack shiat.  YOU have to justify your assertion that they chose to not hire black actors.

I'm only questioning the in-universe assumptions everyone is making based on no evidence.  These aren't human beings and none of these places are Earth or Sol despite their apparent similarities.  Out-universe conversations are dead goddamned boring.  I'm just here for the in-universe nerd talk.
 
2021-07-28 3:41:03 PM  

Excelsior: cretinbob: bingethinker: Why assume that the racial mix on some planets in a galaxy far, far away would be the same as ours?

You have no idea what the function of skin color is.


Evolution 101:

[sruk.org.uk image 449x332]

- In areas with a lot of sun exposure (e.g around the equator) there is a evolutionary benefit in having dark skin (dark skin blocks more UV and is less susceptible to DNA damage from excessive sun exposure, so less likely to develop potentially lethal skin cancer)

However, sunlight (UV) also is what enables your body to create its own Vitamin D, which is what you need for healthy bone & muscle development. In Northern regions without a lot of sun, light skin is beneficial because having dark skin coudl block too much UV and lead to vitamin D deficiencies: evolutionary pressure towards lighter skin.

Even though these aren't huge differences, after thousands of generations these tiny benefits and disadvantages start adding up, and having a very significant effect on the average prevailing skin tones in those regions.

/Of course anyone CAN live pretty much anywhere, but a white skinned person really should be using tons of sunscreen and keep to the shade if they move to Africa, while Black people living in Europe could probably use vitamin D supplements. YMMV.


satwcomic.comView Full Size


I use this one for students....
 
2021-07-28 7:52:39 PM  
Insight is 'trolling" these days and that sucks.
 
2021-07-28 11:56:58 PM  
So take away, Star Wars wasn't realistic
 
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