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(The Intercept)   Basic math says minimum wage should be $24 an hour   (theintercept.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Minimum wage, United States Senate, federal minimum wage, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Minimum wage in the United States, United States Congress, President Franklin D. Roosevelt, minimum wage  
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1698 clicks; posted to Business » on 25 Jul 2021 at 8:45 AM (19 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-07-25 7:50:35 AM  
Before the usual arguments start, just remember in the late 70s a regular guy could sell shoes and support a wife, two kids, and a mortgage payment.
 
2021-07-25 8:53:17 AM  
If everyone pushes hard enough, we might get it to $9.25 in a few years, after a year of $8-ish to help job creators acclimate.
 
2021-07-25 8:57:34 AM  

edmo: Before the usual arguments start, just remember in the late 70s a regular guy could sell shoes and support a wife, two kids, and a mortgage payment.


static.tvtropes.orgView Full Size
 
2021-07-25 8:59:03 AM  
Basic math seldom turns a profit.
 
2021-07-25 9:00:31 AM  

edmo: Before the usual arguments start, just remember in the late 70s a regular guy could sell shoes and support a wife, two kids, and a mortgage payment.


"Al, Let's Have Sex. Uh, No Peg." *flush*
Youtube 2GrdgPzi3-Q
 
2021-07-25 9:03:32 AM  

edmo: Before the usual arguments start, just remember in the late 70s a regular guy could sell shoes and support a wife, two kids, and a mortgage payment.


And then ronnie and his wall street boys took over.....
 
2021-07-25 9:04:40 AM  

fragMasterFlash: Basic math seldom turns a profit.


Lazy sit at home stock owners are not interested in basic math.
 
2021-07-25 9:17:10 AM  
$24/hour for 40 hours, 52 weeks a year is just under $50k. Google tells me the median wage in the US is ~$51k.

Upping the minimum to what the median is now is going to cause a lot of issues. You'd hope it would result in everybody's wages going up accordingly, but somehow I doubt it would be that easy.
 
2021-07-25 9:23:25 AM  
Higher wages = more automation = less jobs available..  vicious circle, indeed...
 
2021-07-25 9:26:59 AM  
I'd like to see someone take out the top .05% and recalculate the median wage..
 
2021-07-25 9:31:57 AM  
I don't think the Constitution allows for math.
 
2021-07-25 9:32:10 AM  

OlderGuy: Higher wages = more automation = less jobs available..  vicious circle, indeed...


automation reckoning is coming sooner or latter utopia or dystopia is our chose to make now
 
2021-07-25 9:37:34 AM  

OlderGuy: Higher wages = more automation = less jobs available..  vicious circle, indeed...


There's a few ways to deal with this issue. The ones that come immediately to mind involve everyone working less. UBI, or a shortened work week, for example? What if full time was 25-30 hours a week?
 
2021-07-25 9:38:48 AM  
What should be and what the GOP allows are exact opposites.
 
2021-07-25 9:40:36 AM  

bighairyguy: I don't think the Constitution allows for math.


cough 3/5 cough
 
2021-07-25 9:41:54 AM  

rustypouch: OlderGuy: Higher wages = more automation = less jobs available..  vicious circle, indeed...

There's a few ways to deal with this issue. The ones that come immediately to mind involve everyone working less. UBI, or a shortened work week, for example? What if full time was 25-30 hours a week?


Wages go up, product manufactured costs more, sales drop, workers laid off...  reality.
 
2021-07-25 9:42:09 AM  
$24? Psshaw. Why not make it farking $50? Or $100? I mean, surely the buying power of a dollar will remain exactly the same and we'll all be UMC. Better start building more Whole Foods, yoga studios and Porsche dealers stat.
 
2021-07-25 9:47:08 AM  
Why do you want to steal money from the shareholders and executives?

They deserve it more than those stinky nasty worker poors.
 
2021-07-25 9:48:24 AM  

OlderGuy: rustypouch: OlderGuy: Higher wages = more automation = less jobs available..  vicious circle, indeed...

There's a few ways to deal with this issue. The ones that come immediately to mind involve everyone working less. UBI, or a shortened work week, for example? What if full time was 25-30 hours a week?

Wages go up, product manufactured costs more, sales drop, workers laid off...  reality.


Have you ever been right about anything?
 
2021-07-25 9:50:42 AM  

edmo: Before the usual arguments start, just remember in the late 70s a regular guy could sell shoes and support a wife, two kids, and a mortgage payment.


Thank you, Al.

Now go back to drooling in the corner.
 
2021-07-25 9:51:53 AM  

Linux_Yes: edmo: Before the usual arguments start, just remember in the late 70s a regular guy could sell shoes and support a wife, two kids, and a mortgage payment.

And then ronnie and his wall street boys took over.....


But for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders.
 
2021-07-25 9:52:11 AM  
Downside is do you want to pay $15 for a Big Mac?
 
2021-07-25 9:52:42 AM  

invictus2: bighairyguy: I don't think the Constitution allows for math.

cough 3/5 cough


Funny how that concept was expanded to the whole population.
 
2021-07-25 9:54:15 AM  

edmo: Before the usual arguments start, just remember in the late 70s a regular guy could sell shoes and support a wife, two kids, and a mortgage payment.


40 hours a week in a factory could also support a family...
 
2021-07-25 9:57:32 AM  

OlderGuy: Higher wages = more automation = less jobs available..  vicious circle, indeed...


Only if you continue to allow the top 0.1% to have as much wealth as the bottom 90%.
 
2021-07-25 9:58:19 AM  

kdawg7736: Downside is do you want to pay $15 for a Big Mac?


Or reduce the executive compensation of the company by 30% and keep prices the same?
 
2021-07-25 9:58:28 AM  

trialpha: $24/hour for 40 hours, 52 weeks a year is just under $50k. Google tells me the median wage in the US is ~$51k.

Upping the minimum to what the median is now is going to cause a lot of issues. You'd hope it would result in everybody's wages going up accordingly, but somehow I doubt it would be that easy.


Not all hourly positions are full time. Not even close. Many workers also work only seasonally. I appreciate your line of thinking, but raising minimum wage to $24 / hr doesn't suddenly make the minimum income $50K.
 
2021-07-25 10:00:18 AM  

NuclearPenguins: OlderGuy: rustypouch: OlderGuy: Higher wages = more automation = less jobs available..  vicious circle, indeed...

There's a few ways to deal with this issue. The ones that come immediately to mind involve everyone working less. UBI, or a shortened work week, for example? What if full time was 25-30 hours a week?

Wages go up, product manufactured costs more, sales drop, workers laid off...  reality.

Have you ever been right about anything?


LOL
 
2021-07-25 10:09:54 AM  

OlderGuy: Higher wages = more automation = less jobs available..  vicious circle, indeed...


You know, the so-called "job creators" kept saying if wages were increased that automation would be more commonplace.  Notice how increased automation hasn't happened?  It's all a BS scare tactic.
 
2021-07-25 10:10:10 AM  

OlderGuy: rustypouch: OlderGuy: Higher wages = more automation = less jobs available..  vicious circle, indeed...

There's a few ways to deal with this issue. The ones that come immediately to mind involve everyone working less. UBI, or a shortened work week, for example? What if full time was 25-30 hours a week?

Wages go up, product manufactured costs more, sales drop, workers laid off...  reality.


or

Wages go up - product manufactured costs go up - slightly, sales rise as more can afford products, company expands hiring more workers to meat increased demand,, reality - according to Henry Ford..
 
2021-07-25 10:11:44 AM  

kdawg7736: Downside is do you want to pay $15 for a Big Mac?


Someone bought into the lie hard.

That isn't how our system works. When you actually listen to the executives they occasionally give up the game. They will say that the prices reflect "what the market with bear." which means there is a maximum price they can charge for a good or service and they charge that price whether they pay no taxes and low wages or pay their fair share in taxes and a living wage. The only difference is the profit that executives and shareholders get to skim off the top. Since the amount the wealthy have today far exceeds what they had in the gilded age it could use some trimming.
 
2021-07-25 10:14:30 AM  

Chief Superintendent Lookout: OlderGuy: Higher wages = more automation = less jobs available..  vicious circle, indeed...

You know, the so-called "job creators" kept saying if wages were increased that automation would be more commonplace.  Notice how increased automation hasn't happened? It's all a BS scare tactic.


It is happening... MSM won't tell you.
 
2021-07-25 10:14:51 AM  

kdawg7736: Downside is do you want to pay $15 for a Big Mac?


Labor costs historically are 33% of the price of food in restaurants. Not sure your math adds up.
 
2021-07-25 10:19:07 AM  

edmo: Before the usual arguments start, just remember in the late 70s a regular guy could sell shoes and support a wife, two kids, and a mortgage payment.


I'm a little skeptical.

I'm not old enough to "remember" that, but since you are stating it as fact, is there any sort of citation?

Or is this hyperbole?

Marcos P: 40 hours a week in a factory could also support a family...


This sounds a little more realistic (although I note mortgage isn't mentioned).
 
2021-07-25 10:19:08 AM  

Mcavity: I'd like to see someone take out the top .05% and recalculate the median wage..


I doubt it would have a huge impact.  I do believe you are confusing income with wealth.
 
2021-07-25 10:20:06 AM  
Automation gets cheaper every year. Anything that can be automated eventually will be. Keeping wages low so that people don't get replaced by automation just delays the inevitable.
 
2021-07-25 10:20:27 AM  

OlderGuy: Chief Superintendent Lookout: OlderGuy: Higher wages = more automation = less jobs available..  vicious circle, indeed...

You know, the so-called "job creators" kept saying if wages were increased that automation would be more commonplace.  Notice how increased automation hasn't happened? It's all a BS scare tactic.

It is happening... MSM won't tell you.


There's also a way to melt belly fat with this one weird trick.
 
2021-07-25 10:27:21 AM  

OlderGuy: Chief Superintendent Lookout: OlderGuy: Higher wages = more automation = less jobs available..  vicious circle, indeed...

You know, the so-called "job creators" kept saying if wages were increased that automation would be more commonplace.  Notice how increased automation hasn't happened? It's all a BS scare tactic.

It is happening... MSM won't tell you.


I guess it's fortunate for you that freedomeagle88.facebook was around to give you the real news while the rest of us muddle along with the lieberal mainstream msm media.
 
2021-07-25 10:27:25 AM  

OlderGuy: Higher wages = more automation = less jobs available..  vicious circle, indeed...


There are some jobs that the robots really should take from us. Hopefully toll booth operators don't come back after the virus because they don't need to. Fast food places can be staffed by less people too since online orders became so prevalent lately.

Soon stenographers will be out a job too once that siri and Alexa technology gets better. No reason to pay someone $60,000 to write down what people say when a device can do it just as easily right?

We should be using technology to our advantage to work less. But of course if we work less then we might have the time to and be able to overthrow the ruling class. Can't have that!
 
2021-07-25 10:33:52 AM  

pehvbot: Linux_Yes: edmo: Before the usual arguments start, just remember in the late 70s a regular guy could sell shoes and support a wife, two kids, and a mortgage payment.

And then ronnie and his wall street boys took over.....

But for a beautiful moment in time we created a lot of value for shareholders.


By paying labor less and using offshore tax shelters
And reducing employee healthcare, etc

Yea it was golden for sit at home stock owners.....

Labor creates wealth. Labor came before wealth and deserves the higher regard.
A. Lincoln
 
2021-07-25 10:35:27 AM  

kdawg7736: Downside is do you want to pay $15 for a Big Mac?


Thats proven murcan propaganda.

Ud pay a 25 cents more. At most

Ever heard of Economies of scale??
 
2021-07-25 10:36:50 AM  

kdawg7736: Downside is do you want to pay $15 for a Big Mac?


Do you know how much less work it takes to make a Big Mac today than it did 30 years ago?  The frozen to cooked stage is about 1/10 the labor.  Separating the styrofoam box compared to the new cardboard boxes takes significantly less time.  They are already using robotic drink dispensers and they have experimental robots that can do most of the back kitchen cooking. Most orders around here are now self entered so no one needs to be at the cash register. If they can find a way to get a robot to clean the kitchen and dining areas, they will be running a pace with one person if they can.
 
2021-07-25 10:37:09 AM  

Eddie Hazel's E string: trialpha: $24/hour for 40 hours, 52 weeks a year is just under $50k. Google tells me the median wage in the US is ~$51k.

Upping the minimum to what the median is now is going to cause a lot of issues. You'd hope it would result in everybody's wages going up accordingly, but somehow I doubt it would be that easy.

Not all hourly positions are full time. Not even close. Many workers also work only seasonally. I appreciate your line of thinking, but raising minimum wage to $24 / hr doesn't suddenly make the minimum income $50K.


24 is a bit high
Except for expensive large cities
 
2021-07-25 10:38:22 AM  

Chief Superintendent Lookout: OlderGuy: Higher wages = more automation = less jobs available..  vicious circle, indeed...

You know, the so-called "job creators" kept saying if wages were increased that automation would be more commonplace.  Notice how increased automation hasn't happened?  It's all a BS scare tactic.


Imagine that
Rich stock owners lying......
 
2021-07-25 10:41:10 AM  

Mcavity: OlderGuy: rustypouch: OlderGuy: Higher wages = more automation = less jobs available..  vicious circle, indeed...

There's a few ways to deal with this issue. The ones that come immediately to mind involve everyone working less. UBI, or a shortened work week, for example? What if full time was 25-30 hours a week?

Wages go up, product manufactured costs more, sales drop, workers laid off...  reality.

or

Wages go up - product manufactured costs go up - slightly, sales rise as more can afford products, company expands hiring more workers to meat increased demand,, reality - according to Henry Ford..


Only demand for goods and services creates jobs.  And people have to have enough disposable income to buy goods and services.

Lazy rich sit at home stock owners do not create jobs

Thread over
 
2021-07-25 10:42:21 AM  
If $24 is just enough to live on in San Francisco, it is higher than needed in Pascagoula.  If $24 is just enough to live on in Pascagoula, it is no where near enough to live on in San Francisco.

There should be a national BASELINE minimum wage PLUS COLAs for specific areas.
 
2021-07-25 10:44:40 AM  

DON.MAC: kdawg7736: Downside is do you want to pay $15 for a Big Mac?

Do you know how much less work it takes to make a Big Mac today than it did 30 years ago?  The frozen to cooked stage is about 1/10 the labor.  Separating the styrofoam box compared to the new cardboard boxes takes significantly less time.  They are already using robotic drink dispensers and they have experimental robots that can do most of the back kitchen cooking. Most orders around here are now self entered so no one needs to be at the cash register. If they can find a way to get a robot to clean the kitchen and dining areas, they will be running a pace with one person if they can.


And AI is replacing white collar jobs too.
 
2021-07-25 10:47:40 AM  

Mcavity: I'd like to see someone take out the top .05% and recalculate the median wage..


I find it incredibly fitting that someone posted this in a thread about basic math, and it got a bunch of smarts.
 
2021-07-25 10:51:42 AM  

OlderGuy: Higher wages = more automation = less jobs available..  vicious circle, indeed...


You spelled "virtuous" wrong, unless you miss the days when we were an agrarian society that would have starved to death without child labor on farms.
 
2021-07-25 10:53:24 AM  

OlderGuy: Chief Superintendent Lookout: OlderGuy: Higher wages = more automation = less jobs available..  vicious circle, indeed...

You know, the so-called "job creators" kept saying if wages were increased that automation would be more commonplace.  Notice how increased automation hasn't happened? It's all a BS scare tactic.

It is happening... MSM won't tell you.


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