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(The Intercept)   Basic math says minimum wage should be $24 an hour   (theintercept.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Minimum wage, United States Senate, federal minimum wage, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Minimum wage in the United States, United States Congress, President Franklin D. Roosevelt, minimum wage  
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1698 clicks; posted to Business » on 25 Jul 2021 at 8:45 AM (19 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-07-25 11:03:19 PM  

majestic: Saturn5: Yes, minimum wage should be raised, but to hear some people it should be high enough for a family of 4 to own a house and 2 cars in the suburbs for a job that has a skill level to fit a high school kid working part time after school.

Minimum wage jobs were never intended to be 20 year career positions.  They were supposed to be low or no skill jobs where anyone can get a job without experience and learn on the job, then move up to higher paying positions as your skills improve. 

Before we can decide how much minimum wage should be, as a nation we should probably first decide who a typical minimum wage job is targeted towards.

Nobody has said that.


Then why the bloody two-bedroom apartment metric? And the 30% of income rule?

These are things that have fark all to do with the minimum wage when it was started, in 1968 when it had the highest relative purchasing power, or today.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/07/14/m​i​nimum-wage-workers-cannot-afford-rent-​in-any-us-state.html
 
2021-07-25 11:06:17 PM  

Saturn5: Yes, minimum wage should be raised, but to hear some people it should be high enough for a family of 4 to own a house and 2 cars in the suburbs for a job that has a skill level to fit a high school kid working part time after school.

Minimum wage jobs were never intended to be 20 year career positions.  They were supposed to be low or no skill jobs where anyone can get a job without experience and learn on the job, then move up to higher paying positions as your skills improve. 

Before we can decide how much minimum wage should be, as a nation we should probably first decide who a typical minimum wage job is targeted towards.


Why shouldn't any job be enough to afford to raise a family? To argue that is to argue that any parent who has to have one of those jobs doesn't deserve to afford things. How do you justify that standpoint?

You can't say "These jobs are for teenagers/single people." You just can't do that, because that's not how the job market works.
 
2021-07-25 11:07:32 PM  

Social Justice Warlock: rustypouch: Social Justice Warlock: rustypouch: vpc: AsparagusFTW: every job from white collar to blue collar is on the line and soon.

I disagree. Every job that has repetitive, identical tasks that can be automated will increasingly see those changes. Jobs that are 100% repetitive and identical are on the line. Jobs that require critical thinking, decision making in rapidly changing circumstances, or telling the robots what to do are not.

I also disagree. I work jobs that cannot be automated. I'm outside building things in the summer, and teach people to ski in the winter.

[Fark user image image 425x425]

I'd like to see the methodology behind that. I have no idea how a robot could do my jobs. A lot of what I do requires thinking on the fly and adapting to the situation. Being outside and dealing with constantly changing conditions, finding the best way to do things, as every job is different. Besides that, much of what I do is client relations. Making sure I'm building what the client actually wants, and changing things if needed. When skiing, chatting with a guest about their particular challenges on snow and ways to improve. Is there a robot that can do that?

Methodology is based on this publication.


Thanks. That site has teachers and instructors, all other, at a 1% chance of automation.

But 67% of automating ski patrol just makes me doubt everything else on that site. Until we get androids like Data, there is no way.
 
2021-07-25 11:07:58 PM  

majestic: Saturn5: Yes, minimum wage should be raised, but to hear some people it should be high enough for a family of 4 to own a house and 2 cars in the suburbs for a job that has a skill level to fit a high school kid working part time after school.

Minimum wage jobs were never intended to be 20 year career positions.  They were supposed to be low or no skill jobs where anyone can get a job without experience and learn on the job, then move up to higher paying positions as your skills improve. 

Before we can decide how much minimum wage should be, as a nation we should probably first decide who a typical minimum wage job is targeted towards.

Nobody has said that.


And why should skill level determine how difficult your life is going to be? No one should have to struggle. Literally no one. Including those with lesser skills.

Our baseline should be nothing less than "Can live without worrying how to pay for one's necessities." Housing, transportation, healthcare, food. And it shouldn't be paycheck to paycheck. Everyone deserves to be able to save money. Everyone.
 
2021-07-25 11:12:14 PM  

austerity101: majestic: Saturn5: Yes, minimum wage should be raised, but to hear some people it should be high enough for a family of 4 to own a house and 2 cars in the suburbs for a job that has a skill level to fit a high school kid working part time after school.

Minimum wage jobs were never intended to be 20 year career positions.  They were supposed to be low or no skill jobs where anyone can get a job without experience and learn on the job, then move up to higher paying positions as your skills improve. 

Before we can decide how much minimum wage should be, as a nation we should probably first decide who a typical minimum wage job is targeted towards.

Nobody has said that.

And why should skill level determine how difficult your life is going to be? No one should have to struggle. Literally no one. Including those with lesser skills.

Our baseline should be nothing less than "Can live without worrying how to pay for one's necessities." Housing, transportation, healthcare, food. And it shouldn't be paycheck to paycheck. Everyone deserves to be able to save money. Everyone.


There isn't enough of the very finite resources on the Earth to support the world you seek to create.

Again, the worldwide economic output is only $11k USD per person. $4k LESS than the current minimum wage. Which 3rd world country would you propose raping and subjugating to give us the economic propulsion to provide the base lifestyle you are saying everyone deserves.

Because that's what your plan requires. If we enslave half the African continent again, we could probably monetize enough to provide that minimum standard for all Americans.

Either that or we need to crack cold fusion and start mining the moon for Helium-3.
 
2021-07-25 11:19:28 PM  
They should run their numbers again.

nescitech.orgView Full Size
 
2021-07-26 12:53:27 AM  
Any time we want, we can choose to get back on the path to a different, fairer, better country.

Fark user imageView Full Size


Demand that our corporate overlords to treat the 99% like human beings loud enough and the 99% will end up in mass graves.
 
2021-07-26 4:54:10 AM  

kdawg7736: Downside is do you want to pay $15 for a Big Mac?


I don't even want a Big Mac for free.
 
2021-07-26 8:59:27 AM  

137 Is An Excellent Time: majestic: Saturn5: Yes, minimum wage should be raised, but to hear some people it should be high enough for a family of 4 to own a house and 2 cars in the suburbs for a job that has a skill level to fit a high school kid working part time after school.

Minimum wage jobs were never intended to be 20 year career positions.  They were supposed to be low or no skill jobs where anyone can get a job without experience and learn on the job, then move up to higher paying positions as your skills improve. 

Before we can decide how much minimum wage should be, as a nation we should probably first decide who a typical minimum wage job is targeted towards.

Nobody has said that.

Then why the bloody two-bedroom apartment metric? And the 30% of income rule?

These are things that have fark all to do with the minimum wage when it was started, in 1968 when it had the highest relative purchasing power, or today.

https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2020/07/14/mi​nimum-wage-workers-cannot-afford-rent-​in-any-us-state.html


You hit the nail on the head.  At leas that's a measurable metric, even though it's going to be very regional.  Without a clear, measurable definition of what minimum wage is supposed to define, setting an appropriate level for it is going to be up to a lot of interpretation.  Maybe it needs to be indexed to inflation?  It probably needs regional cost of living adjustments as well.  A "living wage" is too nebulous of a term because it's going to mean different things to different people.

Maybe universal basic income is the answer and then do away with minimum wage completely.  If an employer wants to hire someone, they'll have to pay enough to make working worthwhile compared to getting paid to do nothing.
 
2021-07-26 9:13:39 AM  

austerity101: Saturn5: Yes, minimum wage should be raised, but to hear some people it should be high enough for a family of 4 to own a house and 2 cars in the suburbs for a job that has a skill level to fit a high school kid working part time after school.

Minimum wage jobs were never intended to be 20 year career positions.  They were supposed to be low or no skill jobs where anyone can get a job without experience and learn on the job, then move up to higher paying positions as your skills improve. 

Before we can decide how much minimum wage should be, as a nation we should probably first decide who a typical minimum wage job is targeted towards.

Why shouldn't any job be enough to afford to raise a family? To argue that is to argue that any parent who has to have one of those jobs doesn't deserve to afford things. How do you justify that standpoint?

You can't say "These jobs are for teenagers/single people." You just can't do that, because that's not how the job market works.


Pay has never been based on how much the employee "needs" because everyone's needs are different.  Pay is typically based on the difficulty of the job, either it's physical demands, skills, or required level of training.
Low or no skill jobs typically go to teenagers or those just starting out because they haven't developed skills that warrant higher paying jobs yet.  That is exactly how the job market works.

The primary goal shouldn't be how to make minimum wage as comfortable as possible, but how to help people learn and build skills that move them beyond entry-level minimum wage jobs as quickly as possible. Minimum wage is the starting point, not the end goal.
 
2021-07-26 9:27:00 AM  

lizyrd: Oliver Twisted: Mcavity: I'd like to see someone take out the top .05% and recalculate the median wage..

I doubt it would have a huge impact.  I do believe you are confusing income with wealth.

I doubt it would have a huge impact, but for no other reason than what "median" means.


Please don't make me relive my statistics classes.
 
2021-07-26 9:40:35 AM  

Saturn5: Maybe universal basic income is the answer and then do away with minimum wage completely.  If an employer wants to hire someone, they'll have to pay enough to make working worthwhile compared to getting paid to do nothing.


This right here.  Anyone who disagrees with this is completely wrong.
 
2021-07-26 9:50:23 AM  
price go up at grocery store at begining of the month because more people get their checks.

rising the min wage will only change stuff for 1-2 year before price adjust again to make you poor.

it's maximum wages/wealth that is needed.
 
2021-07-26 12:43:25 PM  

Linux_Yes: edmo: Before the usual arguments start, just remember in the late 70s a regular guy could sell shoes and support a wife, two kids, and a mortgage payment.

And then ronnie and his wall street boys took over.....


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-07-26 12:48:45 PM  

Dr.Fey: A shoe salesperson in my world is either a teen wearing a hamulating zebra stripe shirt in a mall Footlocker or a person in a suit at Macy's, and I am likely to simply order shoes on-line regardless.


True, many "shoe stores" don't even have a Brannock device or someone who knows how to use it, nor would it do any good, since they don't sell shoes with letters after the size.

Feet suffer because of it.
 
2021-07-26 2:55:13 PM  
 
2021-07-26 9:24:05 PM  

Eddie Hazel's E string: austerity101: It's wild to me that people will seriously try to argue that $24 is too much money for people in certain parts of the country, when billionaires exist.

The minimum wage shouldn't merely be enough for people to barely scrape by. It should be enough for them to live well on, as people who live well can afford to spend more money. And they have better mental and physical health. Poverty is literally bad for your health.

Yes, I completely agree with you. I think the people making those arguments have a misconception about the way certain economic factors impact others, as you can see in this thread. They start to panic about what they believe would change in the marketplace due to the wage increase.


Most of the time it is people in skilled trades who think that someone making $24/hr would make all of their "hard work" meaningless.

But it reminds the rest of us that the reason they are in a skilled trade is because critical thinking wasn't their strong suit.

My buddy who is an electrician was biatching about Florida raising their minimum wage to $15 in a couple years. I told him, "$15/he isn't enough to do anything more than work and exist in our area"

His response was along the lines of "I worked hard to do what I do, I dont want some buger-flipper to make that much".

I looked at him and said, "start charging more".

He said, "well then no one can afford me"

I said, "if those people you were just biatching about made more money, you wouldn't have that problem."

His brain exploded and he shut up.
 
2021-07-26 9:39:57 PM  

Dr.Fey: I'm mostly skeptical about the shoe salesperson thing


Replace shoes with cocaine and it all makes sense.

PS:  The late 1970s is when it all started to unravel and minimum wage was a struggle then.
 
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