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(Ars Technica)   Climate change leading to increasing power outages...coming to a generating station near y   (arstechnica.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Nuclear power, nuclear power plants, leading causes of nuclear outages, broader range of climate events, comprehensive analysis, energy production, new analysis shows, power failures  
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2708 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 25 Jul 2021 at 3:25 AM (19 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-07-25 3:32:29 AM  
Clearly we need more de-regulation, tax cuts and government subsidies for the power companies.
 
2021-07-25 3:34:24 AM  
The smart money is already putting together a gasoline fighting outfit.
 
2021-07-25 3:40:34 AM  
encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size
 
2021-07-25 4:31:46 AM  
If you use a tire fire to power a steam-driven turbine in your backyard, it does technically count as a sustainable distributed power solution.
 
2021-07-25 4:37:04 AM  
CA and TX, both have massive deserts perfect for generating solar.
 
2021-07-25 4:41:33 AM  
Sooner or later there is going to be the political will to get off fossil fuels. The question is whether it happens now and we can do it intentionally or whether it happens after another decade of "oh shiat" weather events and in a desperate scramble.

Or the worst outcome, we decide to just burn ourselves to death, and we're already getting a taste of that.

Nuclear is unfortunately very fragile and slow to build, so it's not going to save our way of life. It will be doubly unfortunate if we lose some of that capacity during the transition.
 
2021-07-25 4:45:51 AM  
In Ontario, we are almost 65% nuclear for electricity, and we expect our power generation to be carbon neutral in only 20 years.
 
2021-07-25 4:58:51 AM  

Sexy Jesus: The smart money is already putting together a gasoline fighting outfit.


We now go live to an artist's interpretation of what that may look like.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-07-25 5:14:59 AM  
That would piss me off, monumentally.

/I have to be at the gym in 26 minutes
 
2021-07-25 5:15:42 AM  
y qué, Subby?
 
2021-07-25 6:14:35 AM  

Creidiki: Clearly we need more de-regulation, tax cuts and government subsidies for the power companies.


can you run for office

tired of seeing only dickheads on the ballot
 
2021-07-25 7:19:00 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-07-25 7:59:43 AM  

adamatari: Sooner or later there is going to be the political will to get off fossil fuels. The question is whether it happens now and we can do it intentionally or whether it happens after another decade of "oh shiat" weather events and in a desperate scramble.

Or the worst outcome, we decide to just burn ourselves to death, and we're already getting a taste of that.

Nuclear is unfortunately very fragile and slow to build, so it's not going to save our way of life. It will be doubly unfortunate if we lose some of that capacity during the transition.


Old nuclear is fragile and slow to build. A farking ton of time and money went into research and development for mini reactors, which are far more stable and easily deployed


We just live with a pack of brain damaged monkeys who froth at the mouth and go into a whargble rage at the mere thought of nuclear power and do everything possible to sabatoge it, even though it is by far the safest and greenest source of raw, RELIABLE power we have access to
 
2021-07-25 8:37:12 AM  

invictus2: [encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 300x168]


And out asshole governor is saying we must stop building renewable energy plants and build more coal plants.
 
2021-07-25 8:48:34 AM  
If we hadn't wasted so much money, time and resources on war and foolishness we could probably have nuclear fusion by now.
 
2021-07-25 8:50:37 AM  

aleister_greynight: CA and TX, both have massive deserts perfect for generating solar.


Too much habitat to lose. Start in urban areas. Shade roofs and parking lots first. Less transmission loss too since it's not being wired in from BFE
 
2021-07-25 9:13:06 AM  

Tomoko: If we hadn't wasted so much money, time and resources on war and foolishness we could probably have nuclear fusion by now.


It would still be 20 years away.
 
2021-07-25 9:32:36 AM  

Pointy Tail of Satan: In Ontario, we are almost 65% nuclear for electricity, and we expect our power generation to be carbon neutral in only 20 years.


Not only that, there's plenty of Hydro Power here.

/We're all right Jack, pull up the ladder.
 
2021-07-25 9:41:35 AM  

Day_Old_Dutchie: Pointy Tail of Satan: In Ontario, we are almost 65% nuclear for electricity, and we expect our power generation to be carbon neutral in only 20 years.

Not only that, there's plenty of Hydro Power here.

/We're all right Jack, pull up the ladder.


Not for long. They're starting to take hydro offline as reservoir levels fall, starting with Lake Powell.
 
2021-07-25 9:46:21 AM  
Unfortunately, I live near X. No one can ever find the place.
 
2021-07-25 10:07:13 AM  

natazha: Tomoko: If we hadn't wasted so much money, time and resources on war and foolishness we could probably have nuclear fusion by now.

It would still be 20 years away.


Feb 2014 - we have finally created a fusion reactor that produces more than it needs to start
Jul 2021 - we have yet to create a fusion reactor that produces more than it needs to start
Mar 2022 - Eggs are bad again
 
2021-07-25 10:16:45 AM  
Power went out in my town last night, but that's because a wire snapped.
 
2021-07-25 10:17:09 AM  

Eravior: Unfortunately, I live near X. No one can ever find the place.


X marks the spot.
 
2021-07-25 10:18:14 AM  

Pointy Tail of Satan: In Ontario, we are almost 65% nuclear for electricity, and we expect our power generation to be carbon neutral in only 20 years.


Good luck with that.
 
2021-07-25 10:58:36 AM  
Hello Liberal Party of Canada, Democratic Party of Canada, and other center-left parties of the world.

You were warned that within the first 30 year of this century, cliamte change would be far more "extreme" than  doing omething about climate change. You farked around and found out.

Those of us who read about it on the daily, becaue we read and climate is part of everything, are truly farked over, while Biden and Trudeau claim all kind of accolades for getting us here their way. There is no advantage to voting for the person who, themelves, set those wild fires and ensured the power outages, by demanding compromise on behalf of "the economy." Physics has no compromise.

It's time to NDP from now on. Anything else is not merely suicide, but moreso, literally voting to burn down entire cities.
 
2021-07-25 11:11:28 AM  

BMulligan: Day_Old_Dutchie: Pointy Tail of Satan: In Ontario, we are almost 65% nuclear for electricity, and we expect our power generation to be carbon neutral in only 20 years.

Not only that, there's plenty of Hydro Power here.

/We're all right Jack, pull up the ladder.

Not for long. They're starting to take hydro offline as reservoir levels fall, starting with Lake Powell.


Hydro is basically the deadliest and most environmentally harmful of all the green energy choices

Which is why the world is moving away from it
 
2021-07-25 11:11:53 AM  

Bennie Crabtree: Hello Liberal Party of Canada, Democratic Party of Canada, and other center-left parties of the world.

You were warned that within the first 30 year of this century, cliamte change would be far more "extreme" than  doing omething about climate change. You farked around and found out.

Those of us who read about it on the daily, becaue we read and climate is part of everything, are truly farked over, while Biden and Trudeau claim all kind of accolades for getting us here their way. There is no advantage to voting for the person who, themelves, set those wild fires and ensured the power outages, by demanding compromise on behalf of "the economy." Physics has no compromise.

It's time to NDP from now on. Anything else is not merely suicide, but moreso, literally voting to burn down entire cities.


did you english?
 
2021-07-25 11:19:57 AM  

Tomoko: If we hadn't wasted so much money, time and resources on war and foolishness we could probably have nuclear fusion by now.


If we hadn't wasted so much money, time and resources on fusion we could probably build a fission nuclear reactor that produces power cheaper than solar now.  We've known we needed it since the 1980s (and thought we needed it in the 1970s with the oil scares) but nuclear keeps getting more and more expensive.  It appears to be not only regulatory capture, but the end product where regulatory capture makes the profits so high that it strangles the industry in favor of competing energy sources (I'm convinced that "too cheap to meter" sent so many alarms off in the electric production industry that they were determined to kill it off.  Safety and greens were merely a means to an end).
 
2021-07-25 11:27:13 AM  

aleister_greynight: CA and TX, both have massive deserts perfect for generating solar.


Texas has oil barons who refuse to go quietly into the night and will burn other industries and the rest of the state down to protect themselves in the short term.
 
2021-07-25 11:36:10 AM  

aleister_greynight: CA and TX, both have massive deserts perfect for generating solar.


Our problem as a species has never been the generation of power. Its been the ability to store power in a long term. If we could solve that in a large scale and simple way, you could power humanity for centuries by just hooking the storage into lightning rods
 
2021-07-25 11:44:19 AM  

Bukharin: [Fark user image image 425x243]


Fark user imageView Full Size

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-07-25 11:49:11 AM  

Pointy Tail of Satan: In Ontario, we are almost 65% nuclear for electricity, and we expect our power generation to be carbon neutral in only 20 years.


what do you do with the spent fuel rods and heavy water waste?
 
2021-07-25 11:50:38 AM  

Pointy Tail of Satan: In Ontario, we are almost 65% nuclear for electricity, and we expect our power generation to be carbon neutral in only 20 years.


also, considering tco, is the process for mining the materials and producing fuel rids also carbon neutral?
 
2021-07-25 11:53:14 AM  

lifeslammer: adamatari: Sooner or later there is going to be the political will to get off fossil fuels. The question is whether it happens now and we can do it intentionally or whether it happens after another decade of "oh shiat" weather events and in a desperate scramble.

Or the worst outcome, we decide to just burn ourselves to death, and we're already getting a taste of that.

Nuclear is unfortunately very fragile and slow to build, so it's not going to save our way of life. It will be doubly unfortunate if we lose some of that capacity during the transition.

Old nuclear is fragile and slow to build. A farking ton of time and money went into research and development for mini reactors, which are far more stable and easily deployed


We just live with a pack of brain damaged monkeys who froth at the mouth and go into a whargble rage at the mere thought of nuclear power and do everything possible to sabatoge it, even though it is by far the safest and greenest source of raw, RELIABLE power we have access to


is it reealy the "greenest" when it requires mining in order to produce fuel?
 
2021-07-25 11:54:00 AM  

the voice of raisin: lifeslammer: adamatari: Sooner or later there is going to be the political will to get off fossil fuels. The question is whether it happens now and we can do it intentionally or whether it happens after another decade of "oh shiat" weather events and in a desperate scramble.

Or the worst outcome, we decide to just burn ourselves to death, and we're already getting a taste of that.

Nuclear is unfortunately very fragile and slow to build, so it's not going to save our way of life. It will be doubly unfortunate if we lose some of that capacity during the transition.

Old nuclear is fragile and slow to build. A farking ton of time and money went into research and development for mini reactors, which are far more stable and easily deployed


We just live with a pack of brain damaged monkeys who froth at the mouth and go into a whargble rage at the mere thought of nuclear power and do everything possible to sabatoge it, even though it is by far the safest and greenest source of raw, RELIABLE power we have access to

is it reealy the "greenest" when it requires mining in order to produce fuel?


Well "greenest" is a relative measure...
 
2021-07-25 11:56:15 AM  

Eravior: Unfortunately, I live near X. No one can ever find the place.


could be worse. you could live in y' but that joke is just derivative
 
2021-07-25 11:57:34 AM  

kdawg7736: Power went out in my town last night, but that's because a wire snapped.


what did they do to make it angry?
 
2021-07-25 12:02:07 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: Hello Liberal Party of Canada, Democratic Party of Canada, and other center-left parties of the world.

You were warned that within the first 30 year of this century, cliamte change would be far more "extreme" than  doing omething about climate change. You farked around and found out.

Those of us who read about it on the daily, becaue we read and climate is part of everything, are truly farked over, while Biden and Trudeau claim all kind of accolades for getting us here their way. There is no advantage to voting for the person who, themelves, set those wild fires and ensured the power outages, by demanding compromise on behalf of "the economy." Physics has no compromise.

It's time to NDP from now on. Anything else is not merely suicide, but moreso, literally voting to burn down entire cities.


yeah, and before Biden was Trump, and before Trudeau was "Sweater-Vest" (still cannot remember his name).

your fellow humans alternate between bailing out the water and punching more holes in the hull.  Very few are actually interested in fixing anything.
 
2021-07-25 12:03:00 PM  

lifeslammer: BMulligan: Day_Old_Dutchie: Pointy Tail of Satan: In Ontario, we are almost 65% nuclear for electricity, and we expect our power generation to be carbon neutral in only 20 years.

Not only that, there's plenty of Hydro Power here.

/We're all right Jack, pull up the ladder.

Not for long. They're starting to take hydro offline as reservoir levels fall, starting with Lake Powell.

Hydro is basically the deadliest and most environmentally harmful of all the green energy choices

Which is why the world is moving away from it


curious about that - citation, please?
 
2021-07-25 12:04:53 PM  

yet_another_wumpus: Tomoko: If we hadn't wasted so much money, time and resources on war and foolishness we could probably have nuclear fusion by now.

If we hadn't wasted so much money, time and resources on fusion we could probably build a fission nuclear reactor that produces power cheaper than solar now.  We've known we needed it since the 1980s (and thought we needed it in the 1970s with the oil scares) but nuclear keeps getting more and more expensive.  It appears to be not only regulatory capture, but the end product where regulatory capture makes the profits so high that it strangles the industry in favor of competing energy sources (I'm convinced that "too cheap to meter" sent so many alarms off in the electric production industry that they were determined to kill it off.  Safety and greens were merely a means to an end).


still gotta mine the fuel and manage waste.  it's not that "green"
 
2021-07-25 12:16:09 PM  
what about the guy who used water from the tap to power a small generator ?
i think he got to power a 100 watt bulb at 10 gallons a minute !
 
2021-07-25 12:38:51 PM  

the voice of raisin: yet_another_wumpus: Tomoko: If we hadn't wasted so much money, time and resources on war and foolishness we could probably have nuclear fusion by now.

If we hadn't wasted so much money, time and resources on fusion we could probably build a fission nuclear reactor that produces power cheaper than solar now.  We've known we needed it since the 1980s (and thought we needed it in the 1970s with the oil scares) but nuclear keeps getting more and more expensive.  It appears to be not only regulatory capture, but the end product where regulatory capture makes the profits so high that it strangles the industry in favor of competing energy sources (I'm convinced that "too cheap to meter" sent so many alarms off in the electric production industry that they were determined to kill it off.  Safety and greens were merely a means to an end).

still gotta mine the fuel and manage waste.  it's not that "green"


And the law of thermodynamics have to be obeyed, there is no free lunch.  It's been available for decades while the world burns.  And don't look too closely to how solar panels are made (they are essentially huge "chips") or the generators in windmills.  But all are vastly more green than fossil fuels.

One other thing that global warming taught us is that "dilution is the solution to pollution" can be bunk.  You throw trash in the garbage can and it goes in the landfill, not willy nilly across the countryside.  Similarly, nuclear waste concentrates the trash into something you can throw away, preferably after glassifying (a 1990s tech) and dumping in the desert or possibly an old mine (don't bury it, the near future is likely going to want it.  Just put it where it takes some effort to get to).
 
2021-07-25 12:41:38 PM  

invictus2: [encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 300x168]


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-07-25 12:51:18 PM  

the voice of raisin: lifeslammer: BMulligan: Day_Old_Dutchie: Pointy Tail of Satan: In Ontario, we are almost 65% nuclear for electricity, and we expect our power generation to be carbon neutral in only 20 years.

Not only that, there's plenty of Hydro Power here.

/We're all right Jack, pull up the ladder.

Not for long. They're starting to take hydro offline as reservoir levels fall, starting with Lake Powell.

Hydro is basically the deadliest and most environmentally harmful of all the green energy choices

Which is why the world is moving away from it

curious about that - citation, please?


The Price of Damming our Rivers | Hydropower Impact
Youtube XfJdTCmkoaA



When china had a dam(n) failure back in 1975, it killed over 250,000 people. Water is also the single most destructive force on earth. So where a power plant going boomy might make things in its immediate area unpleasant, a dam failure can make dozens of miles downstream lethal. Remember, it only takes flowing water to be knee high to sweep you off your feet. You get swept off your feet in the middle of a dam failure, you die from blunt force because of everything else that raging flow of water picked up along the way that it will batter you with before you drown
 
2021-07-25 12:52:09 PM  

the voice of raisin: Pointy Tail of Satan: In Ontario, we are almost 65% nuclear for electricity, and we expect our power generation to be carbon neutral in only 20 years.

what do you do with the spent fuel rods and heavy water waste?


CANDU reactors use heavy water as a moderator (in a sealed system) and they can burn the spent fuel from other types of reactor (PDF). There's a shiat-ton of that spent fuel sitting around. Giving it another trip through a reactor would not only extract a lot of energy, it would also reduce the very-long-term storage problem by converting the uranium and plutonium into fission fragments which decay over 10s of years rather than thousands.

As for the storage itself, take your pick. Underground salt caverns, the bottom of an old uranium mine, under the sea floor in a subduction zone, etc. Dig a hole and shove it in.
 
2021-07-25 1:12:27 PM  

lifeslammer: the voice of raisin: lifeslammer: BMulligan: Day_Old_Dutchie: Pointy Tail of Satan: In Ontario, we are almost 65% nuclear for electricity, and we expect our power generation to be carbon neutral in only 20 years.

Not only that, there's plenty of Hydro Power here.

/We're all right Jack, pull up the ladder.

Not for long. They're starting to take hydro offline as reservoir levels fall, starting with Lake Powell.

Hydro is basically the deadliest and most environmentally harmful of all the green energy choices

Which is why the world is moving away from it

curious about that - citation, please?

[YouTube video: The Price of Damming our Rivers | Hydropower Impact]


When china had a dam(n) failure back in 1975, it killed over 250,000 people. Water is also the single most destructive force on earth. So where a power plant going boomy might make things in its immediate area unpleasant, a dam failure can make dozens of miles downstream lethal. Remember, it only takes flowing water to be knee high to sweep you off your feet. You get swept off your feet in the middle of a dam failure, you die from blunt force because of everything else that raging flow of water picked up along the way that it will batter you with before you drown


Honestly it sounds like you won't even have time to worry about being swept off your feet before the battering commences.
 
2021-07-25 2:54:53 PM  

Ivo Shandor: Giving it another trip through a reactor would not only extract a lot of energy, it would also reduce the very-long-term storage problem by converting the uranium and plutonium into fission fragments which decay over 10s of years rather than thousands.

As for the storage itself, take your pick. Underground salt caverns, the bottom of an old uranium mine, under the sea floor in a subduction zone, etc. Dig a hole and shove it in.


None of those solutions have ever worked. It's science fiction in the service of an industry that escapes the legal conequences for the failure of those exact plans, which we know were never intended to succeed in practice, but are intended to meet liability standards in jury trials. Because of the legal results, we get a scientific status quo that pushes those ideas as if they are new, improved, and proven; an oxymoron, with tons of financing. Meanwhile the accurate science and tech are silenced by posts on the internet like yours.

I think CANDU reactors should replace already-built nuclear power plants, though. For sure, they are an imrpovement over every coastal installation, at the very obvious least.
 
2021-07-25 3:01:46 PM  

the voice of raisin: Pointy Tail of Satan: In Ontario, we are almost 65% nuclear for electricity, and we expect our power generation to be carbon neutral in only 20 years.

also, considering tco, is the process for mining the materials and producing fuel rids also carbon neutral?


We only have 2 large plants. They just store spent fuel in casks at the plants. When it eventually becomes cost effective, the fuel can be recycled, since there is a LOT of energy remaining in it. And our CANDU reactors use unenriched uranium. So processing is relatively simple.
 
2021-07-25 3:06:04 PM  

Bennie Crabtree: None of those solutions have ever worked.


How many of them have been tried? What failures were encountered? How many deaths did they cause? Or did they "not work" because the NIMBY crowd shut them down in the early planning stages?

The only failure I can think of off the top of my head is when somebody at Yucca Mountain bought the wrong brand of kitty litter. Does that outweigh the benefits offered to society by having gigawatts of 24/365 carbon-free power available to accelerate our transition away from fossil fuels?
 
2021-07-25 3:24:23 PM  

yet_another_wumpus: Similarly, nuclear waste concentrates the trash into something you can throw away, preferably after glassifying (a 1990s tech) and dumping in the desert or possibly an old mine (don't bury it, the near future is likely going to want it. Just put it where it takes some effort to get to).


The problem is that the United State's solution to nuclear waste was to dump it in a sacred Native American mountain in Nevada. If you can't figure out how to get rid of waste besides putting it in a minority church, I don't think you get nuclear anymore, especially since most of our state runs off geothermal and isn't producing the waste anyway.

/geothermal, solar, wind, and water. Between those, you can generate more power than you need for the whole nation, with ACTUAL minimal impact, and no toxic waste.
//And no oppressing people who are already oppressed into the bargain.
 
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