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(Guardian)   Ad agency wants to fix gender pay gap. Decides that firing men is better than giving women raises. Judge is not amused   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Gender, Discrimination, White people, creative directors, Sexism, Male, Chas Bayfield, poor gender pay gap  
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1394 clicks; posted to Business » on 24 Jul 2021 at 2:42 PM (8 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



48 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-07-24 3:03:24 PM  
When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.
 
2021-07-24 3:17:11 PM  

Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.


Any decision based on what's between your legs is wrong, no matter which way it goes.
 
2021-07-24 3:50:34 PM  

beefstu01: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

Any decision based on what's between your legs is wrong, no matter which way it goes.


See, that's what I told them, but I still got fired for riding my horse through the office.
 
2021-07-24 3:56:48 PM  

Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.


What's even more amazing than you stupid comment is that fact no Fark admin banned your account yet.
 
2021-07-24 4:00:32 PM  
I worked for a small commuter airline where pilots didn't get paid squat. Talking to the CEO one day, a pilot pointed out a number of the flight attendants made more than the pilots.

CEO unilaterally cut flight attendant pay.

/and he was genuinely hurt when the pilots and flight attendants unionized a few years later.
 
2021-07-24 4:33:12 PM  

Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.


That is the stupidest most sexist thing I've read in a while.
 
2021-07-24 4:37:41 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-07-24 6:01:26 PM  
They're marketers. Who cares?
 
2021-07-24 6:05:01 PM  
Fark, you work in a field that gets rich when it misrepresents things so well that they seem valuable. You get rich when you create lies that seem like real life.

Funny place to start demanding honesty and transparency.
 
2021-07-24 6:36:44 PM  

beefstu01: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

Any decision based on what's between your legs is wrong, no matter which way it goes.


I'm pretty sure women wanted better pay, not men fired.
 
2021-07-24 6:41:13 PM  

Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.


When you lose your job based upon your gender, I'm sure you'll be totes cool with knowing the rest of the group is still doing a okay
 
2021-07-24 6:41:58 PM  
if women are paid 75% the rate of men and do equal work, wouldn't be smarter to just hire women?  you are saving 25% on payroll off the top.
 
2021-07-24 7:10:22 PM  

American-Irish eyes: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

That is the stupidest most sexist thing I've read in a while.


hi13760: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

What's even more amazing than you stupid comment is that fact no Fark admin banned your account yet.


What's up with the infestation of MRA types here?  How long has this been happening, and more importantly, how can we get it to stop?
 
2021-07-24 7:28:58 PM  

Hyjamon: if women are paid 75% the rate of men and do equal work, wouldn't be smarter to just hire women?  you are saving 25% on payroll off the top.


Have you considered a career in management?
 
2021-07-24 7:43:46 PM  
Good. Hit them in the pocketbook every time they do sexist crap, regardless of the direction. Money is the only language they understand.
 
2021-07-24 7:47:29 PM  
It's only a matter of time before corporations realize they can simply hire women and get a 25% discount over men for the same skill set.
 
2021-07-24 8:52:48 PM  
Just have everybody in the company be paid the same.  From janitor to CEO.

Problem solved.
 
2021-07-24 8:54:36 PM  

Popsqueak: American-Irish eyes: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

That is the stupidest most sexist thing I've read in a while.

hi13760: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

What's even more amazing than you stupid comment is that fact no Fark admin banned your account yet.

What's up with the infestation of MRA types here?  How long has this been happening, and more importantly, how can we get it to stop?


Yeah, no.  Be gone bigot.
 
2021-07-24 9:06:33 PM  
They hired someone to bring their company in line with modern values and the very first thing she does is get them sued for sexual discrimination. Well done.
 
2021-07-24 9:16:20 PM  

American-Irish eyes: Popsqueak: American-Irish eyes: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

That is the stupidest most sexist thing I've read in a while.

hi13760: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

What's even more amazing than you stupid comment is that fact no Fark admin banned your account yet.

What's up with the infestation of MRA types here?  How long has this been happening, and more importantly, how can we get it to stop?

Yeah, no.  Be gone bigot.


Sounds like I touched a tiny little nerve there
 
2021-07-24 9:44:23 PM  

edmo: I worked for a small commuter airline where pilots didn't get paid squat. Talking to the CEO one day, a pilot pointed out a number of the flight attendants made more than the pilots.

CEO unilaterally cut flight attendant pay.

/and he was genuinely hurt when the pilots and flight attendants unionized a few years later.


These little puddle-jumper pilots generally make  a little more than minimum wage in a progressive state. ($13-$15 an hour)

Not a good job. Not lucrative.
 
2021-07-24 9:49:24 PM  

cryinoutloud: They're marketers. Who cares?


Fine. Next time you have a great product, hiring your 14 year old nephew that knows "photoshots" and can make things with htmls and "agrorythms" is probably the way to go.

Don't hire a professional whatever you do!
 
2021-07-24 9:55:59 PM  

sprgrss: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

When you lose your job based upon your gender, I'm sure you'll be totes cool with knowing the rest of the group is still underpaid


Fixed that.

Now the company has a potential lawsuit from twogenders
 
2021-07-24 9:57:18 PM  

AlgaeRancher: Hyjamon: if women are paid 75% the rate of men and do equal work, wouldn't be smarter to just hire women?  you are saving 25% on payroll off the top.

Have you considered a career in management?


Wouldn't work, at least not yet.

Hasn't figured the real trick is "interns"
 
2021-07-24 10:31:40 PM  

zjoik: sprgrss: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

When you lose your job based upon your gender, I'm sure you'll be totes cool with knowing the rest of the group is still underpaid

Fixed that.

Now the company has a potential lawsuit from twogenders


The remedy isn't to fire other people.  It's to raise the wages.
 
2021-07-24 10:39:23 PM  

germ78: It's only a matter of time before corporations realize they can simply hire women and get a 25% discount over men for the same skill set.


I realize you're joking, but a lot of people actually believe that's what the pay gap represents.  To be sure the pay gap is real, but when you break it down by career and hours worked it goes down to a negligible difference.  As you pointed out, nobody would hire men if you could get women to do the same job for 75 cents on the dollar.

There's still sexism involved, it's just in the culture rather than the immediate institutions.  Males are brought up with the expectation that they'll have to provide for their family financially and typically opt to take on higher paying, if less rewarding careers while females are brought up to think that raising children should be their main priority.  How much of this is cultural vs biological is a different debate.

But at the end of the day, nobody bats an eye at a neglectful father spending 80 hours a week at the office, but a mother who does the same raises all sorts of eyebrows... even if her husband is the primary caregiver.
 
2021-07-24 10:43:55 PM  

sprgrss: zjoik: sprgrss: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

When you lose your job based upon your gender, I'm sure you'll be totes cool with knowing the rest of the group is still underpaid

Fixed that.

Now the company has a potential lawsuit from twogenders

The remedy isn't to fire other people.  It's to raise the wages.


I am agree with you, and am pointing put that company managed to be sexist to two groups at the same time.
 
2021-07-24 11:55:00 PM  

Popsqueak: American-Irish eyes: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

That is the stupidest most sexist thing I've read in a while.

hi13760: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

What's even more amazing than you stupid comment is that fact no Fark admin banned your account yet.

What's up with the infestation of MRA types here?  How long has this been happening, and more importantly, how can we get it to stop?


You mean this echo chamber of stupid, sexism and racism? Yes I'm a MRA and a WRA, also a Incel, a follower of MGTOW and a dreaded white male.
 
2021-07-25 12:07:27 AM  

hi13760: Popsqueak: American-Irish eyes: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

That is the stupidest most sexist thing I've read in a while.

hi13760: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

What's even more amazing than you stupid comment is that fact no Fark admin banned your account yet.

What's up with the infestation of MRA types here?  How long has this been happening, and more importantly, how can we get it to stop?

You mean this echo chamber of stupid, sexism and racism? Yes I'm a MRA and a WRA, also a Incel, a follower of MGTOW and a dreaded white male.


mysoginy is a hell of a drug
 
2021-07-25 12:13:06 AM  
This has to set some kind of record for worst Fark thread. It's so bad, I started planning this comment before some failed abortion made me look up MGTOW. Christ, what a loser.
 
2021-07-25 12:17:34 AM  

thurstonxhowell: This has to set some kind of record for worst Fark thread. It's so bad, I started planning this comment before some failed abortion made me look up MGTOW. Christ, what a loser.


This is par for the course in the pol tab.
 
2021-07-25 12:28:08 AM  

Popsqueak: American-Irish eyes: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

That is the stupidest most sexist thing I've read in a while.

hi13760: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

What's even more amazing than you stupid comment is that fact no Fark admin banned your account yet.

What's up with the infestation of MRA types here?  How long has this been happening, and more importantly, how can we get it to stop?


I can't see the article but if they truly did use gender as a factor in trimming workforce it wouldn't take an MRA-type to see that as sexist
 
2021-07-25 12:42:33 AM  

BlazeTrailer: I can't see the article but if they truly did use gender as a factor in trimming workforce it wouldn't take an MRA-type to see that as sexist


Here you go.

Two white male creative directors at a top London advertising agency have won a sex discrimination claim after a female director vowed to "obliterate" its Mad Men reputation of being full of straight, white men.

Chas Bayfield and Dave Jenner, both in their 50s and renowned creative directors at the J Walter Thompson (JWT) agency, were among five men axed from the agency, which is part of WPP, because bosses "urgently" wanted to address its poor gender pay gap, a tribunal court ruled.

The men were dismissed in November 2018, shortly after the firm revealed a median gender pay gap of 44.7%. The London Central tribunal heard that the pay gap report had sent "shock waves" through the firm as it highlighted a serious lack of female representation.

The agency's then executive creative director, Lucas Peon, described the pay gap statistics as "really, really horrible". "In the World Cup of sucking at pay gap numbers, we made the final," he said at the time.

A female creative director, Jo Wallace, was appointed to help the company shake off its reputation as a "Knightsbridge boys' club" where "white, straight men create above-the-line advertising".

She organised a diversity conference entitled Crisis: The Mother of All Change. At the conference Wallace, who introduced herself as a gay woman, said: "One thing we all agree on is that the reputation JWT once earned - as being full of white, British, privileged [men] - has to be obliterated."

After the conference Bayfield, 52, and Jenner, 50, who the tribunal heard are both white British and straight, expressed concerns about the safety of their jobs.

Bayfield, who made the famous Blackcurrant Tango St George advert, had sent an email to his superior stating: "I found out recently JWT did a talk off site where it vowed to obliterate white, middle-class straight people from its creative department. There are a lot of very worried people down here."

Peon and Emma Hoyle, the company's human resources director, called a meeting with Bayfield and Jenner to discuss their concerns. The tribunal heard that bosses thought the men were challenging the diversity drive. Within two days of the meeting, it had been decided that Bayfield and Jenner would be made redundant.

The employment judge Mark Emery said the men were treated in such a hostile manner it amounted to "victimisation".

In his judgment, Judge Emery said: "Both Ms Hoyle and Mr Peon were angry from the outset of the meeting, and it continued in this vein. Voices were raised by Mr Peon and Ms Hoyle, and Mr Bayfield and Mr Jenner were forced to defend their position. Their explanations were not at the time accepted and their points of view were angrily dismissed. [There was a] failure to accept that they had any valid concerns about the presentation ... their views were regarded as unacceptable."

The judge said Peon unfairly decided to make the men redundant before carrying out an assessment of other senior creatives to see who should be axed on the merit of their work.

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"We concluded there was a consensus amongst senior management team that Mr Bayfield and Mr Jenner had overstepped the mark with their comments in their emails and at the meeting, that there was anger at what [the company] considered a challenge to their plans on the gender pay gap issue," Emery said.

"We considered that this factor, their sex, was on the mind of [the company] when determining to dismiss them, an equal factor with that of the anger at their complaints.

"This would immediately assist the gender pay gap issue within the creative team, it would rid the team of two creative directors who were, because of their sex, seen as resistant to change; also, female creative directors were exactly what [the company] were seeking."

A woman in a similar position would not have faced the same backlash, the judge said.

Bayfield and Jenner are in line to receive compensation from Wunderman Thompson (a successor to JWT) after winning claims of sex discrimination, victimisation, harassment and unfair dismissal.


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However, they lost claims of age discrimination, race discrimination, and sexual orientation discrimination after the judge ruled these factors had no impact on their dismissal.

After the ruling Bayfield said on Friday: "We were concerned about diversity and female and minority representation but we were also worried about our job safety - the word 'obliterated' is a powerful word. The gender pay gap was mortifying for the company - because it was an awful gap - and their approach was to go gung-ho on who they perceived to be the enemy. They rigged up a kangaroo court and fired us."

The three other male creatives who were sacked settled out of court.
 
2021-07-25 12:43:50 AM  

BlazeTrailer: Popsqueak: American-Irish eyes: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

That is the stupidest most sexist thing I've read in a while.

hi13760: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

What's even more amazing than you stupid comment is that fact no Fark admin banned your account yet.

What's up with the infestation of MRA types here?  How long has this been happening, and more importantly, how can we get it to stop?

I can't see the article but if they truly did use gender as a factor in trimming workforce it wouldn't take an MRA-type to see that as sexist


Are these comments about the article, or other comments?  Defending mysoginists does make you a mysoginist.  I didn't comment on the article.

just so I'm clear though: You read the comments, and didn't understand them, but didn't read the article, and pretend to understand it, just to defend some mysoginists?

You're just making my point!
 
2021-07-25 12:59:23 AM  
Popsqueak  Are these comments about the article, or other comments?  Defending mysoginists does make you a mysoginist.  I didn't comment on the article.

We can, I think, separate comments about the story from the actual story.  The executives involved in this bit of stupidity somehow managed to turn a push for diversity into a fairly clear case of gender discrimination.  It should surprise no one that HR people were involved.

If you tell a department full of people that they're about to be 'obliterated' if they fit a certain profile, shout at them in a meeting when they ask about where their careers are headed, and then fire them for asking what they can expect, you have opened yourself up to a lawsuit.

Perhaps the firm can begin their diversity push at the mid level executive rung on the ladder.  We know that at least some of them are incompetent and have cost the company money.  We also know that they have failed, apparently, at bringing some people of different backgrounds at the creative level.
 
2021-07-25 1:51:03 AM  

Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.


They lost 100% of their jobs.
 
2021-07-25 6:52:28 AM  

Popsqueak: American-Irish eyes: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

That is the stupidest most sexist thing I've read in a while.

hi13760: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

What's even more amazing than you stupid comment is that fact no Fark admin banned your account yet.

What's up with the infestation of MRA types here?  How long has this been happening, and more importantly, how can we get it to stop?


Been here since Gamergate.
 
2021-07-25 10:26:49 AM  
I'm just impressed by how cartoonishly dumb that whole chain of events is. Is acting on your 3AM shower thoughts a requisite for the position?
 
2021-07-25 10:32:40 AM  
Jumpthruhoops:

Would have been better to just stick em with the recent grads on crappy assignments and hope they leave.
 
2021-07-25 10:34:55 AM  
thurstonxhowell:

Holy crap, agreed
 
2021-07-25 11:51:16 AM  

Popsqueak: hi13760: Popsqueak: American-Irish eyes: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

That is the stupidest most sexist thing I've read in a while.

hi13760: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

What's even more amazing than you stupid comment is that fact no Fark admin banned your account yet.

What's up with the infestation of MRA types here?  How long has this been happening, and more importantly, how can we get it to stop?

You mean this echo chamber of stupid, sexism and racism? Yes I'm a MRA and a WRA, also a Incel, a follower of MGTOW and a dreaded white male.

mysoginy is a hell of a drug


Well since I also wasn't called a Nazi, I guess I have that going for me.

But I do need your help. I'm a contributor to my company's Special Needs advocacies and education program.  So can you come up with another derogatory name for me in this area?

Thanks in advance.
 
2021-07-25 1:33:32 PM  

Popsqueak: American-Irish eyes: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

That is the stupidest most sexist thing I've read in a while.

hi13760: Ishkur: When you have 95% of the power, losing 5% of it must feel like oppression.

What's even more amazing than you stupid comment is that fact no Fark admin banned your account yet.

What's up with the infestation of MRA types here?  How long has this been happening, and more importantly, how can we get it to stop?


Show us all how devoted to the cause you are and post a comment like this to your employer's Facebook account.
 
2021-07-25 3:01:54 PM  
I am amazed that they thought they'd be able to get away with this.

And yes, companies could spend less hiring women (because they can get away with paying them less), but they'd rather hire men because 1) f*ck women and 2) women are killjoys that don't let men act like their natural, gross jackhole selves. Corporate men like boys' clubs, and since the money is going to boys in the boys' club, that's all fine and dandy. Any money going to women is a loss.
 
2021-07-25 8:32:41 PM  

Hyjamon: if women are paid 75% the rate of men and do equal work, wouldn't be smarter to just hire women?  you are saving 25% on payroll off the top.


You lose the savings by having to crank up the heat in winter.

/And for some reason, in the summer, too.
 
2021-07-25 8:53:22 PM  

Bukharin: Hyjamon: if women are paid 75% the rate of men and do equal work, wouldn't be smarter to just hire women?  you are saving 25% on payroll off the top.

You lose the savings by having to crank up the heat in winter.

/And for some reason, in the summer, too.


Why can't my wife follow that stereotype? She will blast the AC when it's snowing outside.
 
2021-07-25 9:15:47 PM  

Jumpthruhoops: Bukharin: Hyjamon: if women are paid 75% the rate of men and do equal work, wouldn't be smarter to just hire women?  you are saving 25% on payroll off the top.

You lose the savings by having to crank up the heat in winter.

/And for some reason, in the summer, too.

Why can't my wife follow that stereotype? She will blast the AC when it's snowing outside.


Because menopause.
 
2021-07-25 9:36:34 PM  

Bukharin: Jumpthruhoops: Bukharin: Hyjamon: if women are paid 75% the rate of men and do equal work, wouldn't be smarter to just hire women?  you are saving 25% on payroll off the top.

You lose the savings by having to crank up the heat in winter.

/And for some reason, in the summer, too.

Why can't my wife follow that stereotype? She will blast the AC when it's snowing outside.

Because menopause.


She's on her period right now. If menopause will make it worse, I may have to drop her off in the arctic.
 
2021-07-25 11:15:24 PM  

Jumpthruhoops: Bukharin: Jumpthruhoops: Bukharin: Hyjamon: if women are paid 75% the rate of men and do equal work, wouldn't be smarter to just hire women?  you are saving 25% on payroll off the top.

You lose the savings by having to crank up the heat in winter.

/And for some reason, in the summer, too.

Why can't my wife follow that stereotype? She will blast the AC when it's snowing outside.

Because menopause.

She's on her period right now. If menopause will make it worse, I may have to drop her off in the arctic.


I have a horrible working theory that a wife is not happy unless the HVAC is running.

[prove_me_wrong.jpg]
 
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