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261 clicks; posted to STEM » on 24 Jul 2021 at 2:26 PM (18 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:

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"Panpsychists all accept dog-consciousness, but some might not want to accept chair-consciousness"

Thank god they don't. Otherwise I've irreversibly traumatized most objects around my house.

I'm an animist in a way. I do things like apologize when I bump into inanimate objects. But I'm not like pet rock stupid. lol

Ikea "Lamp" Commercial - Hi Res

Ishkur: The idea of an "object" is kind of funny to me. At the molecular level there is no real distinction between the atoms that make up an object and the atoms that surround it. There is no official border or boundary that separates the two. It's kind of fuzzy to determine at the atomic level exactly where you end and the air around you begins. Or what exact atoms make up you.

Moreover those atoms are moving all the time, and some are leaving the object and others are joining it. The constitution of objects is constantly changing. The first principle of logic, Aristotle's A is A, is useful only as a thought exercise, or could be approximated to certain things at certain dimensions and resolutions moving at certain velocities, but it has no real application or utility to things that are really small (quantum), really large (universe), or moving really fast (speed of light). In other words: Extremities that we cannot innately observe do not obey our fuzzy rules of logic.

Moreover: What defines the consciousness in an object? Do larger objects have larger consciousnesses? What happens to the consciousness of an object when it's changed or merged with other objects? If a rock has consciousness, and you break it in two, does it then become two rocks with two consciousnesses? If you glue two rocks together, do they become one rock with one consciousness? If so, what happened to one of the consciousnesses? Where did it go? What if you tethered two rocks with a string? Is it still two consciousnesses or does it become one consciousness? How close do they have to be to merge consciousnesses?

These are the things that keep me up at night.

Watch How it's Made, and drift off to the soothing strains of extrusion

So it's "Begging the question, the article"?

/The real meaning of begging the question. You know, the one nobody uses.

This sounds a lot like midichlorians to me.

 1 vote:
The idea of an "object" is kind of funny to me. At the molecular level there is no real distinction between the atoms that make up an object and the atoms that surround it. There is no official border or boundary that separates the two. It's kind of fuzzy to determine at the atomic level exactly where you end and the air around you begins. Or what exact atoms make up you.

Moreover those atoms are moving all the time, and some are leaving the object and others are joining it. The constitution of objects is constantly changing. The first principle of logic, Aristotle's A is A, is useful only as a thought exercise, or could be approximated to certain things at certain dimensions and resolutions moving at certain velocities, but it has no real application or utility to things that are really small (quantum), really large (universe), or moving really fast (speed of light). In other words: Extremities that we cannot innately observe do not obey our fuzzy rules of logic.

Moreover: What defines the consciousness in an object? Do larger objects have larger consciousnesses? What happens to the consciousness of an object when it's changed or merged with other objects? If a rock has consciousness, and you break it in two, does it then become two rocks with two consciousnesses? If you glue two rocks together, do they become one rock with one consciousness? If so, what happened to one of the consciousnesses? Where did it go? What if you tethered two rocks with a string? Is it still two consciousnesses or does it become one consciousness? How close do they have to be to merge consciousnesses?

These are the things that keep me up at night.

 1 vote:

Ishkur: The idea of an "object" is kind of funny to me. At the molecular level there is no real distinction between the atoms that make up an object and the atoms that surround it. There is no official border or boundary that separates the two. It's kind of fuzzy to determine at the atomic level exactly where you end and the air around you begins. Or what exact atoms make up you.

Moreover those atoms are moving all the time, and some are leaving the object and others are joining it. The constitution of objects is constantly changing. The first principle of logic, Aristotle's A is A, is useful only as a thought exercise, or could be approximated to certain things at certain dimensions and resolutions moving at certain velocities, but it has no real application or utility to things that are really small (quantum), really large (universe), or moving really fast (speed of light). In other words: Extremities that we cannot innately observe do not obey our fuzzy rules of logic.

Moreover: What defines the consciousness in an object? Do larger objects have larger consciousnesses? What happens to the consciousness of an object when it's changed or merged with other objects? If a rock has consciousness, and you break it in two, does it then become two rocks with two consciousnesses? If you glue two rocks together, do they become one rock with one consciousness? If so, what happened to one of the consciousnesses? Where did it go? What if you tethered two rocks with a string? Is it still two consciousnesses or does it become one consciousness? How close do they have to be to merge consciousnesses?

These are the things that keep me up at night.

I need a nap so this might be way off base, but it seems to me that the way you describe how things exist at a molecular level would indicate there's only one actual consciousness, shared by all.

Pleasant dreams.

 1 vote:

lilistonic: Ishkur: The idea of an "object" is kind of funny to me. At the molecular level there is no real distinction between the atoms that make up an object and the atoms that surround it. There is no official border or boundary that separates the two. It's kind of fuzzy to determine at the atomic level exactly where you end and the air around you begins. Or what exact atoms make up you.

Moreover those atoms are moving all the time, and some are leaving the object and others are joining it. The constitution of objects is constantly changing. The first principle of logic, Aristotle's A is A, is useful only as a thought exercise, or could be approximated to certain things at certain dimensions and resolutions moving at certain velocities, but it has no real application or utility to things that are really small (quantum), really large (universe), or moving really fast (speed of light). In other words: Extremities that we cannot innately observe do not obey our fuzzy rules of logic.

Moreover: What defines the consciousness in an object? Do larger objects have larger consciousnesses? What happens to the consciousness of an object when it's changed or merged with other objects? If a rock has consciousness, and you break it in two, does it then become two rocks with two consciousnesses? If you glue two rocks together, do they become one rock with one consciousness? If so, what happened to one of the consciousnesses? Where did it go? What if you tethered two rocks with a string? Is it still two consciousnesses or does it become one consciousness? How close do they have to be to merge consciousnesses?

These are the things that keep me up at night.

I need a nap so this might be way off base, but it seems to me that the way you describe how things exist at a molecular level would indicate there's only one actual consciousness, shared by all.

Pleasant dreams.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-ele​c​tron_universe

 1 vote:
I am a stick.

 1 vote:
Theoretical physicists either took too much or not enough this time.

 1 vote:
To be fair, I've seen it discussed that consciousness is just an attribute of mass. Like color. I can't remember the philosopher's name but he rejected the idea that consciousness evolves. His proof posited that no increase in computing power would ever permit the computer to be actually conscious. I can't imagine consciousness as attribute of mass existing due to the overhead. Some thing would have to be the locus of my consciousness and it would have to have some kind of I/O mechanism. Even if memory were distinct from consciousness. Etc.

Sorry for drifting off there. [sound of reboot]

 1 vote:

lilistonic: Ishkur: The idea of an "object" is kind of funny to me. At the molecular level there is no real distinction between the atoms that make up an object and the atoms that surround it. There is no official border or boundary that separates the two. It's kind of fuzzy to determine at the atomic level exactly where you end and the air around you begins. Or what exact atoms make up you.

Moreover those atoms are moving all the time, and some are leaving the object and others are joining it. The constitution of objects is constantly changing. The first principle of logic, Aristotle's A is A, is useful only as a thought exercise, or could be approximated to certain things at certain dimensions and resolutions moving at certain velocities, but it has no real application or utility to things that are really small (quantum), really large (universe), or moving really fast (speed of light). In other words: Extremities that we cannot innately observe do not obey our fuzzy rules of logic.

Moreover: What defines the consciousness in an object? Do larger objects have larger consciousnesses? What happens to the consciousness of an object when it's changed or merged with other objects? If a rock has consciousness, and you break it in two, does it then become two rocks with two consciousnesses? If you glue two rocks together, do they become one rock with one consciousness? If so, what happened to one of the consciousnesses? Where did it go? What if you tethered two rocks with a string? Is it still two consciousnesses or does it become one consciousness? How close do they have to be to merge consciousnesses?

These are the things that keep me up at night.

I need a nap so this might be way off base, but it seems to me that the way you describe how things exist at a molecular level would indicate there's only one actual consciousness, shared by all.

Pleasant dreams.

There is one consciousness and, unfortunately, it allows me to see what ishkur does at night when he can't sleep

 1 vote:
One wonders if they read too many user manuals that had cartoonlike illustrations of the device the manual refers to.

 1 vote:

johnny_vegas: There is one consciousness and, unfortunately, it allows me to see what ishkur does at night when he can't sleep

So you're the guy who keeps criticizing my Detroit Techno mixes.

 1 vote:
Tennessee Steinmetz agrees.

 1 vote:

Ishkur: The idea of an "object" is kind of funny to me. At the molecular level there is no real distinction between the atoms that make up an object and the atoms that surround it. There is no official border or boundary that separates the two. It's kind of fuzzy to determine at the atomic level exactly where you end and the air around you begins. Or what exact atoms make up you.

Moreover those atoms are moving all the time, and some are leaving the object and others are joining it. The constitution of objects is constantly changing. The first principle of logic, Aristotle's A is A, is useful only as a thought exercise, or could be approximated to certain things at certain dimensions and resolutions moving at certain velocities, but it has no real application or utility to things that are really small (quantum), really large (universe), or moving really fast (speed of light). In other words: Extremities that we cannot innately observe do not obey our fuzzy rules of logic.

Moreover: What defines the consciousness in an object? Do larger objects have larger consciousnesses? What happens to the consciousness of an object when it's changed or merged with other objects? If a rock has consciousness, and you break it in two, does it then become two rocks with two consciousnesses? If you glue two rocks together, do they become one rock with one consciousness? If so, what happened to one of the consciousnesses? Where did it go? What if you tethered two rocks with a string? Is it still two consciousnesses or does it become one consciousness? How close do they have to be to merge consciousnesses?

These are the things that keep me up at night.

I was just thinking about this last night.  We are literally swimming in a sea of atoms and our body is a composite of so many different things, bacteria, cells, etc.   Where does the line get drawn?

 1 vote:

hissatsu: So it's "Begging the question, the article"?

/The real meaning of begging the question. You know, the one nobody uses.

Begging the question is my favourite informal fallacy because it is the one I like the best.

 1 vote:
Even the simple photons thru the slit experiment shows that there's something akin to consciousness at the quantum level.

 1 vote:

If you want to research the subject...

 1 vote:

turboke: lilistonic: Ishkur: The idea of an "object" is kind of funny to me. At the molecular level there is no real distinction between the atoms that make up an object and the atoms that surround it. There is no official border or boundary that separates the two. It's kind of fuzzy to determine at the atomic level exactly where you end and the air around you begins. Or what exact atoms make up you.

Moreover those atoms are moving all the time, and some are leaving the object and others are joining it. The constitution of objects is constantly changing. The first principle of logic, Aristotle's A is A, is useful only as a thought exercise, or could be approximated to certain things at certain dimensions and resolutions moving at certain velocities, but it has no real application or utility to things that are really small (quantum), really large (universe), or moving really fast (speed of light). In other words: Extremities that we cannot innately observe do not obey our fuzzy rules of logic.

Moreover: What defines the consciousness in an object? Do larger objects have larger consciousnesses? What happens to the consciousness of an object when it's changed or merged with other objects? If a rock has consciousness, and you break it in two, does it then become two rocks with two consciousnesses? If you glue two rocks together, do they become one rock with one consciousness? If so, what happened to one of the consciousnesses? Where did it go? What if you tethered two rocks with a string? Is it still two consciousnesses or does it become one consciousness? How close do they have to be to merge consciousnesses?

These are the things that keep me up at night.

I need a nap so this might be way off base, but it seems to me that the way you describe how things exist at a molecular level would indicate there's only one actual consciousness, shared by all.

Pleasant dreams.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One-elec​tron_universe

I came up with very similar theory as a child after hearing that eveything on TV screen is just one electron going round

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