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(NBC News)   The housing market continues to spiral out of control, and wealthy investors are continuing to outbid people looking for a home. This is fine   (nbcnews.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Real estate, housing prices, Ask price, lack of supply of single-family homes, Nathan Saunders, Neighbourhood, current neighborhood, vast majority of these investors  
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1220 clicks; posted to Business » and Main » on 22 Jul 2021 at 2:35 PM (12 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-07-22 1:58:36 PM  
The American Dream is dead; the foreclosure sign out front shoulda told ya.
 
2021-07-22 2:12:38 PM  
We just got lucky and found an affordable, nice home not far from our rental. The ONLY reason we got it is because our agent was also representing the sellers (military family, just got orders and needed to sell quickly). It's insane out here.

/getting new appliances and solar panels in the deal
//#score
 
2021-07-22 2:23:56 PM  
Margin Call (3/9) Movie CLIP - The Music Stops (2011) HD
Youtube UOYi4NzxlhE
 
2021-07-22 2:49:09 PM  
David M. Dworkin, president and CEO of the National Housing Conference, said that cash offers typically make up about 25 percent of the market but that over the past year, the proportion soared to nearly 1 in 3.

Maybe I need to add more exciting words to my language, but 25% to 33.3% is a gain of 33.2%.  (33.3-25)/25)).  Is that soaring?  It started off higher than I already assumed.  Meh.
 
2021-07-22 2:50:45 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: The American Dream is dead; the foreclosure sign out front shoulda told ya.


No housing needed.

Fark user imageView Full Size


/or shirt
 
2021-07-22 2:51:07 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: The American Dream is dead; the foreclosure sign out front shoulda told ya.


The American Dream was largely fiction. The only period in time during which it was "real" was for the Boomers, because America was the only country not bombed to sh*t during the war and all its industry had a huge global head start. The Silent Generation effectively won WW2 and left an economic miracle to their kids in their will.

We don't have that anymore. Now we're rapidly speed-running end-game capitalism, where all commodities are being hoarded by the wealthy and all non-commodities are being turned into commodities.
 
2021-07-22 2:51:58 PM  
Guillotine O'Clock keeps getting closer.
 
2021-07-22 2:52:47 PM  
I'm expecting to get kicked out of my apartment when my lease expires as it looks like my landlord is fixing the place up to be luxury apartments for rich people.

Soon only rich people will be allowed to live anywhere.
 
2021-07-22 2:54:35 PM  
Some states like Maine have a separate property tax rate for vacation or investment property.  Maine also has an "exit" tax when you sell it (maybe 4%, I forget).
This would slow investment property buying for non-primary residents, or at the least provide higher property tax income to pay for services and schools for residents of the area in question.
However!  These could raise rent, and the only way to stabilize or reduce property prices is to build housing units.  This means condos or apartments and demolishing single family homes near major job markets.  Good luck with that.
 
2021-07-22 2:55:23 PM  
The good news for all the farkers out their who hate the rich is that eventually there will be a crash and everyone who is currently buying up houses in this bidding war will lose lots of money.
 
2021-07-22 2:55:39 PM  
Be patient, people. I'm putting my dad's place on the market soon. Things will crash and burn then.

/Especially for 1844 Victorians
 
2021-07-22 2:57:56 PM  

Northern: However!  These could raise rent, and the only way to stabilize or reduce property prices is to build housing units.  This means condos or apartments and demolishing single family homes near major job markets.  Good luck with that.


This is correct.  The problem is the inability to zone cities for more density because homeowners have a vested interest in keeping density low to keep prices high.  It's a logjam that I don't know how you break.  Even in SF, where everyone knows this is exactly the problem, it's nearly impossible to do anything about.  Density is how you get affordable housing.
 
2021-07-22 2:58:37 PM  
Accordingly, I bet you could make a killing in the long run simply by wiring low-CoL towns with gigabit internet and, entirely optionally, buying a few plots of land as a multiplier.
 
2021-07-22 3:01:03 PM  

DuneClimber: I'm expecting to get kicked out of my apartment when my lease expires as it looks like my landlord is fixing the place up to be luxury apartments for rich people.

Soon only rich people will be allowed to live anywhere.


Look at Idaho. They're getting overrun by wealthy assholes who will NIMBY their fancy asses all over the place.
 
2021-07-22 3:01:51 PM  

Rapmaster2000: David M. Dworkin, president and CEO of the National Housing Conference, said that cash offers typically make up about 25 percent of the market but that over the past year, the proportion soared to nearly 1 in 3.

Maybe I need to add more exciting words to my language, but 25% to 33.3% is a gain of 33.2%.  (33.3-25)/25)).  Is that soaring?  It started off higher than I already assumed.  Meh.


In a market as large (dollar-wise) as housing is? Holy sh*t  YES that is a huge f*cking increase.

This market is so distorted it's insane right now. Property investors I know are quietly selling off things they've had for years or wanted to hold saying they just can't pass this up.

I know these guys... they are going to be buying back these things they sell for a 50% discount in 5-10 years or sooner.

These market, equities and housing and pretty much everything else are just completely insane.
 
2021-07-22 3:04:19 PM  

bluejeansonfire: The Silent Generation effectively won WW2


Sub for "The Greatest Generation" (crap as the name is).  The Silents were those between 0 and 17 on V-J day and didn't have a thing to do with WW2.
 
2021-07-22 3:05:33 PM  

TheSubjunctive: bluejeansonfire: The Silent Generation effectively won WW2

Sub for "The Greatest Generation" (crap as the name is).  The Silents were those between 0 and 17 on V-J day and didn't have a thing to do with WW2.


Ah, my mistake.
 
2021-07-22 3:12:58 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-07-22 3:12:59 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: The American Dream is dead


Because you have to be asleep to believe it.

- George Carlin
 
2021-07-22 3:13:53 PM  

Craw Fu: The good news for all the farkers out their who hate the rich is that eventually there will be a crash and everyone who is currently buying up houses in this bidding war will lose lots of money.


Then we'll get to bail them out with our tax dollars. They never really lose.
 
2021-07-22 3:32:45 PM  
I've been looking for a house, all the ones for sale in my area are owned by llc's licensed to the address, filled with shiat materials, and way higher than they should be.
 
2021-07-22 3:37:28 PM  
So, I live in a suburb were there are bylaws preventing anyone person, trust, or corporate entity from owning more than two of the homes in a given development.  I've only ever owned 3 homes and all three were in neighborhoods with this provision.  I just assumed it was boilerplate.  Silly me.
 
2021-07-22 3:43:07 PM  
"You can tell which homes have rentals because you see more cars parked on the streets," he said. "They've always allowed on-street parking, but that was for guests. This is an everyday occurrence, and the streets aren't that wide." Five cars regularly park in front of his former next-door neighbor's house or on the property, he said.

In my neighborhood, another way of telling is the steady stream of lawn care companies.  Homeowners will mow their tiny lawns but landlords will hire someone as the tenant won't do the work. It seems like almost every day there are lawn care companies out mowing multiple lawns.
 
2021-07-22 3:46:06 PM  

runwiz: "You can tell which homes have rentals because you see more cars parked on the streets," he said. "They've always allowed on-street parking, but that was for guests. This is an everyday occurrence, and the streets aren't that wide." Five cars regularly park in front of his former next-door neighbor's house or on the property, he said.

In my neighborhood, another way of telling is the steady stream of lawn care companies.  Homeowners will mow their tiny lawns but landlords will hire someone as the tenant won't do the work. It seems like almost every day there are lawn care companies out mowing multiple lawns.


Uh.....what?  So, I use a service, my neighbors use a service, my sister in Missouri and my sister in Maryland both use services.  Maybe we are all lazy bums, but I am perfectly happy to pay someone to handle my lawn care for me and get back most of my weekend.
 
2021-07-22 3:49:34 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Northern: However!  These could raise rent, and the only way to stabilize or reduce property prices is to build housing units.  This means condos or apartments and demolishing single family homes near major job markets.  Good luck with that.

This is correct.  The problem is the inability to zone cities for more density because homeowners have a vested interest in keeping density low to keep prices high.  It's a logjam that I don't know how you break.  Even in SF, where everyone knows this is exactly the problem, it's nearly impossible to do anything about.  Density is how you get affordable housing.



We sprinted in the opposite direction here in PDX.  City instituted a ban on tearing down single-occ houses to replace them with multi-unit.  The publicized idea was to prevent the loss of small "affordable starter homes" to the bulldozer.  Of course, this means that you can now only do multi-unit in places where it already exists, or when building from an empty lot.

We're still seeing multi-unit being built like crazy, but single-occ houses are all pushing half a mil now (or more).  Strong plan.

Portland likes to do things backwards.  We only elect the brightest minds to run things into the ground.  Idealism uber alles, always.
 
2021-07-22 3:54:04 PM  

bluejeansonfire: Guillotine O'Clock keeps getting closer.


[Excitedly checks watch]
 
2021-07-22 3:55:45 PM  

Craw Fu: The good news for all the farkers out their who hate the rich is that eventually there will be a crash and everyone who is currently buying up houses in this bidding war will lose lots of money.


Because everyone will suddenly say: 'Fark it, let's be homeless!'.
 
2021-07-22 3:55:46 PM  

Craw Fu: The good news for all the farkers out their who hate the rich is that eventually there will be a crash and everyone who is currently buying up houses in this bidding war will lose lots of money.


They only lose money if they are forced to sell during the low.  Since the investors this time around are paying in cash, as opposed to the many smaller investors that were buying up homes prior to the Great Recession using credit, that is less likely to happen.
 
2021-07-22 3:58:57 PM  

koder: Accordingly, I bet you could make a killing in the long run simply by wiring low-CoL towns with gigabit internet and, entirely optionally, buying a few plots of land as a multiplier.


THIS is why Internet access should be a low-cost ubiquitous nationalized utility; not only for economic reasons but to end insane housing shortages and scumbag horder landlords.
 
2021-07-22 4:01:41 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: The American Dream is dead; the foreclosure sign out front shoulda told ya.


It's gotten so bad that now only 65% of Americans own their own home. https://www.census.gov/housing/​hvs/fil​es/currenthvspress.pdf

Sadly, our friends south of the border have not gotten the memo that the American dream is dead. They continue to march north toward their doom. The march thousands of miles through deserts and cartel territory. Little do they know that they will face starvation wages, homelessness, systemic racism, and cruel exploitation once they arrive.
 
2021-07-22 4:02:15 PM  
I looked at a house to buy about a month ago and it got about 20 offers in one day and it sold for $25,000 more than they were asking. F*ckin a
 
2021-07-22 4:10:08 PM  

Rapmaster2000: Northern: However!  These could raise rent, and the only way to stabilize or reduce property prices is to build housing units.  This means condos or apartments and demolishing single family homes near major job markets.  Good luck with that.

This is correct.  The problem is the inability to zone cities for more density because homeowners have a vested interest in keeping density low to keep prices high.  It's a logjam that I don't know how you break.  Even in SF, where everyone knows this is exactly the problem, it's nearly impossible to do anything about.  Density is how you get affordable housing.


Seattle is doing this. I'm currently listening to the construction sounds of the 2nd and 3rd housing unit on the lot next door, which was formerly zoned single family and about 4000sqft in size 😑.

Townhomes are going up along every arterial road in the city. Literally two dozen new units have gone up within a 100 yards of my home, and I'm a bit tired of living next to construction.
 
2021-07-22 4:13:58 PM  

busy chillin': I looked at a house to buy about a month ago and it got about 20 offers in one day and it sold for $25,000 more than they were asking. F*ckin a


We were recently set to look at one house the day it came on the market.  They booked several days worth of showings immediately. First prospective buyer to get a showing made an on site cash offer over asking price, which the seller accepted immediately.

The market is insane.
 
2021-07-22 4:22:16 PM  
It's crazy.  My house is Zillowing (grain of salt, I know) for $100k more then I bought it for 3.5 years ago.

And I haven't done any major improvements.

On average since buying, my house has gained more in value each month then I pay on the mortgage.
 
2021-07-22 4:22:23 PM  
I was thinking about selling and buying when I pay down my mortgage a bit more in like 6 years.

If this shiat keeps up, I'll just make my existing house bigger.
 
2021-07-22 4:23:19 PM  

v2micca: So, I live in a suburb were there are bylaws preventing anyone person, trust, or corporate entity from owning more than two of the homes in a given development.  I've only ever owned 3 homes and all three were in neighborhoods with this provision.  I just assumed it was boilerplate.  Silly me.


That's probably toothless. Just keep spinning up new corps and trusts.
 
2021-07-22 4:24:17 PM  

akya: It's crazy.  My house is Zillowing (grain of salt, I know) for $100k more then I bought it for 3.5 years ago.

And I haven't done any major improvements.

On average since buying, my house has gained more in value each month then I pay on the mortgage.


I read an analysis of these estimate thingies, and they selected Redfin as more accurate than Zillow.  I didn't examine the numbers myself, but that was the conclusion.  Don't hold me to it.
 
2021-07-22 4:28:13 PM  

UTD_Elcid: Rapmaster2000: Northern: However!  These could raise rent, and the only way to stabilize or reduce property prices is to build housing units.  This means condos or apartments and demolishing single family homes near major job markets.  Good luck with that.

This is correct.  The problem is the inability to zone cities for more density because homeowners have a vested interest in keeping density low to keep prices high.  It's a logjam that I don't know how you break.  Even in SF, where everyone knows this is exactly the problem, it's nearly impossible to do anything about.  Density is how you get affordable housing.

Seattle is doing this. I'm currently listening to the construction sounds of the 2nd and 3rd housing unit on the lot next door, which was formerly zoned single family and about 4000sqft in size 😑.

Townhomes are going up along every arterial road in the city. Literally two dozen new units have gone up within a 100 yards of my home, and I'm a bit tired of living next to construction.


Seattle's a mess right now, and I'm afraid I'm not helping.

Just moved into a "new" old house in Phinney two days ago.

We've been moving about every 5 years since the Mrs and I got married.  Buy the most expensive shiathole we can find, put it back together over about 5 years, sell it and put the proceeds into the next one.

Believe it or not, we sold our house in the 'burbs in unincorporated Bothel/Lynnwood, bought a house in town, and managed to put $200k in our pockets without losing any square footage.  It's a bit rough, but liveable.

Now, to start the long slog of rehab...
 
2021-07-22 4:31:48 PM  
Regardless of the article's tone or content, this is a crap-lousy way to say "it went up about 5-6%":

David M. Dworkin, president and CEO of the National Housing Conference, said that cash offers typically make up about 25 percent of the market but that over the past year, the proportion soared to nearly 1 in 3.

"1 in 3" is, of course, 33%. So, it went from "about 25%" to "less than 33%."
 
2021-07-22 4:43:28 PM  
You'd think that this is an issue that would gain support to solve from both the right-wing "no filthy renters in my subdivision" NIMBYs and the left-wing "affordable housing (a half hour drive away)" NIMBYs.
 
2021-07-22 5:01:25 PM  
As someone who bought a house about 8 weeks ago and whose old house is closing next week, I will agree the market is insane.

Our old house was a corner lot on a busy street, and a small one at that. Liked the house, hated the location, and between cars ending up in my yard when they got t-boned trying to turn, people walking into our yard at bar close to drunkenly ride my kids' rope swing, pissing on my steps, etc., I had enough. Our plan was to pay it off within the next 5 years, save aggressively for 5 years, and then I'd go to working part time so I'd be able to help my oldest son (who is on the spectrum) figure out how he wants to adult and have the freedom to try to start a small business that he could be involved in if it made sense.

Instead, we found a house about 6 blocks from our old house so we could stay with the same schools, same support staff, etc., with the benefit of having a double lot by virtue of our house abutting what used to be a rail line, and the family that owned the house in the 80's had purchased the next door neighbors' house and annexed half of their lot, using the smaller house as a mother in law flat.

We offered 10% over asking and waived inspections to seal the deal (and asking was still about 30% higher than what it had last sold for in 2018), and our old house, terrible location and all, went for a shade less than double what we paid in 2010 at the last market downturn.

Now, my new next door neighbor has run into a zoning issue because her house occupies almost 90% of her lot, which means she can't get permitted for any improvements on the property, so she and the city have both reached out asking us to consider buying her house and un-annexing part of the lot, which we are strongly considering to rent it to my wife's grandma.
 
2021-07-22 5:18:02 PM  

akya: It's crazy.  My house is Zillowing (grain of salt, I know) for $100k more then I bought it for 3.5 years ago.

And I haven't done any major improvements.

On average since buying, my house has gained more in value each month then I pay on the mortgage.


I'm sure it depends on the area and market particularly but I refinanced back in February of this year (took advantage of a 2.375% rate) and my appraisal came back at $266k as compared to Zillow's $254k at the time.

Zillow is currently at $287k five months later. I'm taking that 33k increase with a grain of salt too but damn that makes me wonder.

Either way, I'm holding onto my $266k appraisal because I'm pretty sure our tax appraisals are due later this year, and if they try to appraise it for something even higher, I can submit an appraisal that's less than a year old as evidence for an adjustment. I've already done it once before after buying my house for 35k less than they appraised it for tax purposes and that was a pretty sweet savings for about 4 years until they reappraised.
 
2021-07-22 5:41:00 PM  

Rapmaster2000: akya: It's crazy.  My house is Zillowing (grain of salt, I know) for $100k more then I bought it for 3.5 years ago.

And I haven't done any major improvements.

On average since buying, my house has gained more in value each month then I pay on the mortgage.

I read an analysis of these estimate thingies, and they selected Redfin as more accurate than Zillow.  I didn't examine the numbers myself, but that was the conclusion.  Don't hold me to it.


Zillow has me at 33K more than I paid 6 months ago for my place, Redfin a mere 28K more.  But slightly smaller homes in same neighborhood are listed for more than either say, so ???  Waiting on the data from actual sale price to list.  Not that I plan to move again anytime soon, just been fascinated.

My previous house is also estimated at over $20K more than what I sold it for.
 
2021-07-22 5:43:27 PM  

Rapmaster2000: David M. Dworkin, president and CEO of the National Housing Conference, said that cash offers typically make up about 25 percent of the market but that over the past year, the proportion soared to nearly 1 in 3.

Maybe I need to add more exciting words to my language, but 25% to 33.3% is a gain of 33.2%.  (33.3-25)/25)).  Is that soaring?  It started off higher than I already assumed.  Meh.


That's not what a cash offer means.

They are waving the mortgage contingency, but more than 0 will still get a mortgage.
 
2021-07-22 5:44:04 PM  
Here in the OC, house prices have been going up $15 an hour for over a year.
 
2021-07-22 6:05:06 PM  

CCNP: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: The American Dream is dead; the foreclosure sign out front shoulda told ya.

It's gotten so bad that now only 65% of Americans own their own home. https://www.census.gov/housing/h​vs/files/currenthvspress.pdf

Sadly, our friends south of the border have not gotten the memo that the American dream is dead. They continue to march north toward their doom. The march thousands of miles through deserts and cartel territory. Little do they know that they will face starvation wages, homelessness, systemic racism, and cruel exploitation once they arrive.


Most are from Central America, driven out by the actions of the CIA, installing despots (and their US trained murderous thugs) and the race-based War on Drugs.

Akin to chickens coming home to roost.
 
2021-07-22 7:04:23 PM  

bluejeansonfire: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: The American Dream is dead; the foreclosure sign out front shoulda told ya.

The American Dream was largely fiction. The only period in time during which it was "real" was for the Boomers, because America was the only country not bombed to sh*t during the war and all its industry had a huge global head start. The Silent Generation effectively won WW2 and left an economic miracle to their kids in their will.

We don't have that anymore. Now we're rapidly speed-running end-game capitalism, where all commodities are being hoarded by the wealthy and all non-commodities are being turned into commodities.


bluejeansonfire: TheSubjunctive: bluejeansonfire: The Silent Generation effectively won WW2

Sub for "The Greatest Generation" (crap as the name is).  The Silents were those between 0 and 17 on V-J day and didn't have a thing to do with WW2.

Ah, my mistake.


OK, now that this part is out of the way...

The Silent Generation would have been the generation following the Greatest Generation.  They were mostly the "keep your head down and be in the right place at the right time" generation - they escaped the trauma of serving in WWII, then came of age as teens and young adults in the 1950s (i.e. every character in Grease, or George and Lorraine McFly).  They were already established in their careers when the cultural revolution came around.  While Boomers were arguing over the draft, they were making their way through the companies the Greats had propelled to... well, greatness.  While the Greatest Gen was at the start of the suburban buildout, they were reacting to a genuine housing shortage in the aftermath of WWII.  The Silents... they were the ones seeing the Civil Rights movement build a head of steam and moving as far out into white-flight suburbs as possible, fighting school bussing, and generally trying to stay out of the cultural wars.

That is, until they wanted some Strange... 

In the 70's, the Silents were the ones hitting their middle age crazies, pushing the envelope on divorce, leaving their GenX kids home as latchkey kids.  In the 80's, as they were hitting their prime earning years, they saw a champion in St. Ronnie, coming to rescue them from taxes.  In 1980, when Boomers were barely 35 and were relatively split between Reagan and Carter, if they bothered to vote (narrator: young people don't)  Silents (ages 35-52 at the time) swooned for Reagan:

Look at the1980 Election:

18-21: 45% for Carter, 44% for Reagan, 11% Anderson (a liberal Republican running as an Independent)
22-29: 44% for Carter, 44% for Reagan, 11% for Anderson
30-44 38% for Carter, 55% for Reagan, 7% for Anderson
45-59 39% for Carter 55% for Reagan, 6% for Anderson
60 & over 41% for Carter, 55 for Reagan, 4% for Anderson

This was the last generation with amazing pensions.  They were the workers with seniority in the 80's layoffs.  They were the ones who bought the houses that rocketed in Value (the Greats' bought the tiny suburban ramblers that they sold for a loss trying to get away from "the city") They were already starting to retract the ladder behind them, with a some of the oldest Boomers able to hitch on.  The younger boomers and Boom-X cuspers were worse off.  They were the ones propelled by the Baby Boom, this massive wave of workers behind them creating prosperity and boosting them to positions of senior leadership.

They are the generation that hated Barack Obama the most, and swooned for Donald Trump:

pewresearch.orgView Full Size


They consistently discount the effects of racial discrimination:

pewresearch.orgView Full Size


They are the most opposed to immigration: 

pewresearch.orgView Full Size


Bleh, there's more here:  https://www.pewresearch.org/po​litics/2​018/03/01/the-generation-gap-in-americ​an-politics/

Boomers by and large were screwed by the Silents.  The Silents are so faded from view, mostly retired, elderly, and/or dead, that the Boomers are in the crosshairs.  When the boomers fade away, GenX will be up for the shellacking.  And make no mistake, GenZ and Gen Alpha are going to be merciless with Boomers 2.0, A.K.A. Millennials.
 
2021-07-22 7:26:55 PM  
i.redd.itView Full Size
 
2021-07-22 7:29:02 PM  
Blackrock...
 
2021-07-22 7:29:08 PM  

CCNP: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: The American Dream is dead; the foreclosure sign out front shoulda told ya.

It's gotten so bad that now only 65% of Americans own their own home. https://www.census.gov/housing/h​vs/files/currenthvspress.pdf

Sadly, our friends south of the border have not gotten the memo that the American dream is dead. They continue to march north toward their doom. The march thousands of miles through deserts and cartel territory. Little do they know that they will face starvation wages, homelessness, systemic racism, and cruel exploitation once they arrive.


This reads like sarcasm, but it's worth noting you are right in a straight reading, too.

Home ownership peaked at 69% (nice) in 2005 and bottomed out at 63% in 2016, from your link. Non-Hispanic whites are in the 70s during that time period, so that implies non-whites are in the 40s and 50s (which the pdf also confirms).

Man, the US makes it good to be white. Change my mind.
 
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