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(Rock Paper Shotgun)   High-end PC gamers are pretty overheated about Amazon's new MMO   (rockpapershotgun.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Frame rate, Amazon's MMO New World, World, New World preview, ATI Technologies, Software testing, big closed beta, New World  
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1649 clicks; posted to STEM » on 22 Jul 2021 at 2:55 AM (4 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



33 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
4 days ago  
This really sounds like a problem with the cards themselves, and not with the game. I dont know how it would be possible for a game to somehow override the built in safety measures GPU's are supposed to have to protect from exactly this kind of thing happening, especially when its just one specific level of graphics card (3090)
 
4 days ago  

lifeslammer: This really sounds like a problem with the cards themselves, and not with the game. I dont know how it would be possible for a game to somehow override the built in safety measures GPU's are supposed to have to protect from exactly this kind of thing happening, especially when its just one specific level of graphics card (3090)


Maybe it stresses one particular part of the chip very heavily but doesn't raise the average temperature enough to trigger protective measures. Still a hardware flaw, but maybe they found some access pattern which was so obscure that QA missed it.
 
4 days ago  

Ivo Shandor: lifeslammer: This really sounds like a problem with the cards themselves, and not with the game. I dont know how it would be possible for a game to somehow override the built in safety measures GPU's are supposed to have to protect from exactly this kind of thing happening, especially when its just one specific level of graphics card (3090)

Maybe it stresses one particular part of the chip very heavily but doesn't raise the average temperature enough to trigger protective measures. Still a hardware flaw, but maybe they found some access pattern which was so obscure that QA missed it.


Doesnt sound like it. A few others of the same model line are being stressed, but only the EVGA made 3090 ftw3 is being killed, but not universally. Sounds like a failure in the production batch if anything. Which in itself is odd, because EVGA has been making damn good cards for a long time
 
4 days ago  
Aw, I remember when you could buy graphics cards.
 
4 days ago  

lifeslammer: This really sounds like a problem with the cards themselves, and not with the game. I dont know how it would be possible for a game to somehow override the built in safety measures GPU's are supposed to have to protect from exactly this kind of thing happening, especially when its just one specific level of graphics card (3090)


Normally these kinds of hard-to-reproduce and illogical performance problems are due to intrusive DRM.
 
4 days ago  
Reports about the evga 3080ti OC3 showed that evga is hard capping the power and people can't get the max out of the card. Maybe it's a similar situation here? Except it's faulty power regulation on the 3090.
 
4 days ago  

lifeslammer: This really sounds like a problem with the cards themselves, and not with the game. I dont know how it would be possible for a game to somehow override the built in safety measures GPU's are supposed to have to protect from exactly this kind of thing happening, especially when its just one specific level of graphics card (3090)


The world was shocked when AMD released the HD 5970, a dual GPU card that was capped at 300W due to that being the absolute limit of the ATX spec.

It was equipped with a cooler made to dissipate 400W, and each chip was underclocked relative to the HD 5870, so there was definitely headroom. AMD then basically hinted that people should buy it and overclock it.

The base RTX 3090 is rated for 350W on a single chip.
 
4 days ago  
Apparently the EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra has a vendor supplied BIOS that allows it to eat 500W. And someone has manually upped this to 550W.

I'd put this on EVGA and Nvidia, rather than Amazon.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-NVI​D​IA-GeForce-RTX-3090-may-have-a-350-W-T​DP-but-it-can-consume-nearly-60-more.4​94757.0.html

https://www.anandtech.com/show/2877/4​
 
4 days ago  
It's like the last days of minicomputers when colleges would stick them in an unused grad office or broom closet if that was too small, cutting a hole in the wall for an ac window unit, and running the kvm cables under the door to a desk beside it.
 
4 days ago  
On a side note: I was able to order the GPU that I wanted, at Asus MSRP, from new egg, without doing shuffle.
 
4 days ago  

dyhchong: Apparently the EVGA 3090 FTW3 Ultra has a vendor supplied BIOS that allows it to eat 500W. And someone has manually upped this to 550W.

I'd put this on EVGA and Nvidia, rather than Amazon.

https://www.notebookcheck.net/The-NVID​IA-GeForce-RTX-3090-may-have-a-350-W-T​DP-but-it-can-consume-nearly-60-more.4​94757.0.html

https://www.anandtech.com/show/2877/4


To be fair, the 550w card has a shunt mod.  Once you physically modify a card like that, all bets are off.
 
4 days ago  
This actually was a nice talky bit about the problem and what is known so far. Take with a grain of salt obviously since things are still on going.
Beware! This game could brick your GPU! WARNING!
Youtube KLyNFrKyG74
 
4 days ago  
Wonder how the serial numbers on the failed cards would compare to eachother
 
4 days ago  

question_dj: On a side note: I was able to order the GPU that I wanted, at Asus MSRP, from new egg, without doing shuffle.


Which card?
 
4 days ago  

lifeslammer: This really sounds like a problem with the cards themselves, and not with the game. I dont know how it would be possible for a game to somehow override the built in safety measures GPU's are supposed to have to protect from exactly this kind of thing happening, especially when its just one specific level of graphics card (3090)


Gamer boners everywhere go limp
 
4 days ago  

Confabulat: Aw, I remember when you could buy graphics cards.


A year ago, I built a new gaming PC. I don't need 200fps or anything, just something better than the 1080 resolution I'd been using. When it came to video cards, I wanted "good not great", so I got a 2060 "budget" card for around $450. Same card, as of a couple weeks ago, was selling for just north of $800. Unbelievable. Unless something changes soon, this will be the last gaming box I ever have.
 
4 days ago  

lifeslammer: This really sounds like a problem with the cards themselves, and not with the game. I dont know how it would be possible for a game to somehow override the built in safety measures GPU's are supposed to have to protect from exactly this kind of thing happening, especially when its just one specific level of graphics card (3090)


Yup. If a piece of software can brick your hardware then there is something wrong with the hardware (even if the software is being irresponsible with resources). I've seen this same thing happen quite a few times with big releases that attracted an unusually large market. It was a huge thing back when Starcraft 2 first came out and the proposed solution (limiting frame rate) was the same but the problem ultimately affected a small minority of users.
 
4 days ago  
Buildzoid has a rather in depth postulation of what may be causing these failures.

Rambling about RTX 3090s getting bricked by Amazon's New World game
Youtube dbCrNBpW-RQ
 
4 days ago  

RobotSpider: Confabulat: Aw, I remember when you could buy graphics cards.

A year ago, I built a new gaming PC. I don't need 200fps or anything, just something better than the 1080 resolution I'd been using. When it came to video cards, I wanted "good not great", so I got a 2060 "budget" card for around $450. Same card, as of a couple weeks ago, was selling for just north of $800. Unbelievable. Unless something changes soon, this will be the last gaming box I ever have.


About two years ago I bought a closeout (the year before's model) Vega56.  I'm guessing I paid ~$200, maybe $300.  Looks like they are going north of $500 (granted, AMDs tend to be better miners then nvidia).

And that was bought inbetween peaks of etherium hysteria.  I'm guessing most of the issue with GPUs now is that nvidia is using Samsung for their chips and not getting enough, and that AMD would rather make server CPUs than GPUs.  GPUs take up ridiculous amounts of silicon area and for all the price, CPUs make more money.

I'd have to assume that most of the issues with the high-tech 7nm availability will be over pretty soon (this has zero effect on the 45nm car electronics issues), hopefully in time for another generation of GPUs.

/using a 4k TV for amazingly immersive video.  Losing all "gamer" cred as it can only 60Hz (no superman eyes here capable of seeing 240Hz)
//also playing old games that the Vega56 can keep up, so will probably skip this generation even if it ships at a reasonable price
///hp reverb g2 (VR headset) was on sale over prime day for $400.  Skipped that, and VR is most likely reason for me to buy a new GPU (VR *really* wants >90Hz fps).
 
4 days ago  
Miners have been using these cards at full throttle. That rules out the hardware and drivers.
 
4 days ago  

I Like Bread: Miners have been using these cards at full throttle. That rules out the hardware and drivers.


Leaving what other choices? I somehow doubt that there's an actual "halt and catch fire" opcode in the official API, so how did user software manage to blow up those cards?

Miners run the card flat-out on one specific pattern of instructions. Games stress different bits of the card in different ways.
 
4 days ago  
Is it even worth the risk to play what has been suggested is a completely generic and uninspired MMO if there is even a slight chance of damaging your equipment.
 
4 days ago  
Wow, their MMO is so realistic, it even simulates global warming!
 
4 days ago  

I Like Bread: Miners have been using these cards at full throttle. That rules out the hardware and drivers.


Miners don't fully utilize all the features of the GPU, and thus, the power load is differently applied. I imagine the power draw is a lot less than you might think per card for mining. I expect performance for mining is thermally limited, at any rate.
 
4 days ago  

LesserEvil: I Like Bread: Miners have been using these cards at full throttle. That rules out the hardware and drivers.

Miners don't fully utilize all the features of the GPU, and thus, the power load is differently applied. I imagine the power draw is a lot less than you might think per card for mining. I expect performance for mining is thermally limited, at any rate.


100% usage is 100% usage and miners literally can not afford to leave performance on the table. You're half right in that this game (programmed by the gurus at Amazon Games) is doing something that other, well-written apps are not doing. Id est, not an issue with the hardware or drivers.
 
4 days ago  

I Like Bread: LesserEvil: I Like Bread: Miners have been using these cards at full throttle. That rules out the hardware and drivers.

Miners don't fully utilize all the features of the GPU, and thus, the power load is differently applied. I imagine the power draw is a lot less than you might think per card for mining. I expect performance for mining is thermally limited, at any rate.

100% usage is 100% usage and miners literally can not afford to leave performance on the table. You're half right in that this game (programmed by the gurus at Amazon Games) is doing something that other, well-written apps are not doing. Id est, not an issue with the hardware or drivers.


No, "100% usage" is not all the same thing. You could have one CPU 100% busy adding integer numbers, another 100% busy copying blocks of memory, and a third one 100% busy multiplying floating-point numbers. Each doing its own assigned task as quickly as possible but also using different parts of the chipset to do so. The power and thermal profiles will not be identical.
 
4 days ago  

Daedalus27: Is it even worth the risk to play what has been suggested is a completely generic and uninspired MMO if there is even a slight chance of damaging your equipment.


Kind of like having unprotected sex with an average looking partner, who has a reputation of not being good in bed.

You're probably going to do it.
 
4 days ago  

I Like Bread: LesserEvil: I Like Bread: Miners have been using these cards at full throttle. That rules out the hardware and drivers.

Miners don't fully utilize all the features of the GPU, and thus, the power load is differently applied. I imagine the power draw is a lot less than you might think per card for mining. I expect performance for mining is thermally limited, at any rate.

100% usage is 100% usage and miners literally can not afford to leave performance on the table. You're half right in that this game (programmed by the gurus at Amazon Games) is doing something that other, well-written apps are not doing. Id est, not an issue with the hardware or drivers.


Is it not true that most miners underclock and undervolt their cards to maximise lifespan at "100%" load?
 
4 days ago  

I Like Bread: 100% usage is 100% usage and miners literally can not afford to leave performance on the table. You're half right in that this game (programmed by the gurus at Amazon Games) is doing something that other, well-written apps are not doing. Id est, not an issue with the hardware or drivers.


No, it pretty much is a hardware/driver issue. It should not be possible for user level software like a game to damage hardware.
 
4 days ago  
I'm betting every person whose card died had already overclocked the card to the point where it started to glitch and then backed off the overclocking 10% or so.  And then they maxed out all the game settings.
 
3 days ago  

Ivo Shandor: I Like Bread: LesserEvil: I Like Bread: Miners have been using these cards at full throttle. That rules out the hardware and drivers.

Miners don't fully utilize all the features of the GPU, and thus, the power load is differently applied. I imagine the power draw is a lot less than you might think per card for mining. I expect performance for mining is thermally limited, at any rate.

100% usage is 100% usage and miners literally can not afford to leave performance on the table. You're half right in that this game (programmed by the gurus at Amazon Games) is doing something that other, well-written apps are not doing. Id est, not an issue with the hardware or drivers.

No, "100% usage" is not all the same thing. You could have one CPU 100% busy adding integer numbers, another 100% busy copying blocks of memory, and a third one 100% busy multiplying floating-point numbers. Each doing its own assigned task as quickly as possible but also using different parts of the chipset to do so. The power and thermal profiles will not be identical.


True. And if miners weren't locking their rigs into very specific performance settings to hit a target cost per kWh, your point might be relevant.

If you leave your car parked in the driveway with a cinder block on the gas pedal, it's going to explode whether you have Sport Mode enabled or not. Full load is full load.
 
3 days ago  

trialpha: I Like Bread: 100% usage is 100% usage and miners literally can not afford to leave performance on the table. You're half right in that this game (programmed by the gurus at Amazon Games) is doing something that other, well-written apps are not doing. Id est, not an issue with the hardware or drivers.

No, it pretty much is a hardware/driver issue. It should not be possible for user level software like a game to damage hardware.


And by that you mean, "It's always been possible to brick computer hardware with bad/malicious code but the industry stays in front of that for the most part."
 
3 days ago  

lifeslammer: This really sounds like a problem with the cards themselves, and not with the game. I dont know how it would be possible for a game to somehow override the built in safety measures GPU's are supposed to have to protect from exactly this kind of thing happening, especially when its just one specific level of graphics card (3090)


um you can oververclock the cards and change the point at which the card thermal throttles.   I can see somebody maxing all of the overclock and thermal settings.  and if this game never lets up on the card, I can see it happening over time.  especially of the heatsinks get clogged.
 
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