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(The Irish Times)   EU vice president Maroš Šefčovič refuses to renegotiate the Northern Ireland Protocol blamed for the sausage wars and shortages of those cool 'v' diacritic marks   (irishtimes.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, United Kingdom, European Union, Brexit minister David Frost, Northern Ireland protocol, European Commission, Republic of Ireland, Northern Ireland, single market  
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521 clicks; posted to Politics » on 21 Jul 2021 at 4:49 PM (9 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



38 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-07-21 2:47:47 PM  
Free NI and let them join the rest of the republic of Ireland. Bonus is NI rejoins the EU with all the rights and privileges of 1st world. When is the vote for NI to leave and join?
 
2021-07-21 3:02:02 PM  
FA/FO, motherf*ckers.
 
Xai [TotalFark]
2021-07-21 3:49:48 PM  
weird, the brexiteers said the EU would be begging us...
 
2021-07-21 3:57:40 PM  

eurotrader: Free NI and let them join the rest of the republic of Ireland. Bonus is NI rejoins the EU with all the rights and privileges of 1st world. When is the vote for NI to leave and join?


Thank you for plan to restart the troubles.
 
2021-07-21 4:01:46 PM  
Speaking after a cabinet meeting at Dublin Castle Taoiseach Micheál Martin took an optimistic view, saying that the proposals showed the British wished to find a negotiated solution

They already did that.  That's why the thing they agreed on is called an "agreement".  What Boris wants to find is a way to eat his cake and have it too.
 
2021-07-21 4:05:16 PM  

eurotrader: Free NI and let them join the rest of the republic of Ireland. Bonus is NI rejoins the EU with all the rights and privileges of 1st world. When is the vote for NI to leave and join?


Brexit made NI a de facto part of the EU.  The border can't go through Ireland, so it has to go through the North Sea.  NI unionists are dying off in any case.
 
2021-07-21 4:52:10 PM  
Maroš taunts the hands of fate.
 
2021-07-21 4:52:30 PM  
The Sausage Wars sounds like a Chuck Tingle book.
 
2021-07-21 4:53:02 PM  
too many diacritic marks and my wife told me to do my own laundry
 
2021-07-21 4:55:17 PM  

eurotrader: Free NI and let them join the rest of the republic of Ireland. Bonus is NI rejoins the EU with all the rights and privileges of 1st world. When is the vote for NI to leave and join?


Takes a referendum by both RoI and NI.

My over/under is at a decade, when the last of the Loyalist deadheaders are dead and gone.
 
2021-07-21 4:55:31 PM  
It's almost as if having multiple non-negotiable mutually exclusive demands are are a recipe for disaster.

Who could possibly have known?!

🇬🇧🔥 Brexit, Briefly: REVISITED! 🔥🇪🇺
Youtube J1Yv24cM2os
 
2021-07-21 4:55:37 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: eurotrader: Free NI and let them join the rest of the republic of Ireland. Bonus is NI rejoins the EU with all the rights and privileges of 1st world. When is the vote for NI to leave and join?

Brexit made NI a de facto part of the EU.  The border can't go through Ireland, so it has to go through the North Sea.  NI unionists are dying off in any case.


My guess is, at most, Unification will happen a generation sooner. A lot of young people who might have become Unionists now feel betrayed by the DUP and abandoned by Westminster. However there's still the current generation that is in charge, and it's not like there's no Unionists under 40. However there is a good chance my kids will see Eire completely unified.
 
2021-07-21 5:01:05 PM  

WordsnCollision: Maroš taunts the hands of fate.


The Master would not approve.
 
2021-07-21 5:02:21 PM  
It's like an entitled spouse demanding a divorce from their much wealthier partner, then finding that they won't pay for their lawyer, won't give them a generous alimony, won't give them half their stuff, and won't stop describing things - accurately - to all their friends.

And yet, they still send threatening letters spouseward every week.

// what the fark leverage does the UK think they even have anymore?
// the EU laughs in their face, and the only people who still think Brexit was a good idea are the (largely) geriatric Brexiteers
 
2021-07-21 5:06:15 PM  

Dr Dreidel: It's like an entitled spouse demanding a divorce from their much wealthier partner, then finding that they won't pay for their lawyer, won't give them a generous alimony, won't give them half their stuff, and won't stop describing things - accurately - to all their friends.

And yet, they still send threatening letters spouseward every week.

// what the fark leverage does the UK think they even have anymore?
// the EU laughs in their face, and the only people who still think Brexit was a good idea are the (largely) geriatric Brexiteers


Every pro brexiter's delusional thought process, "We are British you idiot! Remember the British empire? How dare you and the EU ignore the demands of the British!"
 
2021-07-21 5:06:31 PM  

inglixthemad: However there is a good chance my kids will see Eire completely unified.


...under English rule.
 
2021-07-21 5:09:38 PM  

Klyukva: inglixthemad: However there is a good chance my kids will see Eire completely unified.

...under English rule.


[notsureifserious.jpg]

If serious, you may want to check out a map.   Things have changed a bit since the 20s.   We don't even have flappers any more!
 
2021-07-21 5:13:59 PM  

Klyukva: inglixthemad: However there is a good chance my kids will see Eire completely unified.

...under English rule.


media.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2021-07-21 5:17:05 PM  

inglixthemad: Marcus Aurelius: eurotrader: Free NI and let them join the rest of the republic of Ireland. Bonus is NI rejoins the EU with all the rights and privileges of 1st world. When is the vote for NI to leave and join?

Brexit made NI a de facto part of the EU.  The border can't go through Ireland, so it has to go through the North Sea.  NI unionists are dying off in any case.

My guess is, at most, Unification will happen a generation sooner. A lot of young people who might have become Unionists now feel betrayed by the DUP and abandoned by Westminster. However there's still the current generation that is in charge, and it's not like there's no Unionists under 40. However there is a good chance my kids will see Eire completely unified.


The Republic of Ireland also is pretty liberal now, it seems, and guarantees freedom of religion in its constitution. So there doesn't seem to be a consequence with respect to religious practice associated with which government rules Northern Ireland. Maybe Ireland will buy it from the UK?

The UK's last land border might disappear :D What a historic outcome that would be.

// not sure if Gibraltar counts or if it has some kind of special status
 
2021-07-21 5:31:39 PM  

Gubbo: eurotrader: Free NI and let them join the rest of the republic of Ireland. Bonus is NI rejoins the EU with all the rights and privileges of 1st world. When is the vote for NI to leave and join?

Thank you for plan to restart the troubles.


If Boris gets his way, and there is a physical border between the North and South there will be a massive democratic majority in NI wanting to join the Republic in a few short years. There is currently a razor-edge majority remaining in favour of the union, a border, combined with Sinn Féin's almost-guaranteed majority in Stormon next year, would certainly swing it in favour of a United Ireland.

I get your point about hardcore loyalists taking up weapons, but they are a tiny minority. The last two generations of protestants have been far more moderate. The paramilitaries would have little or no support.
 
2021-07-21 5:36:23 PM  

Arkanaut: inglixthemad: Marcus Aurelius: eurotrader: Free NI and let them join the rest of the republic of Ireland. Bonus is NI rejoins the EU with all the rights and privileges of 1st world. When is the vote for NI to leave and join?

Brexit made NI a de facto part of the EU.  The border can't go through Ireland, so it has to go through the North Sea.  NI unionists are dying off in any case.

My guess is, at most, Unification will happen a generation sooner. A lot of young people who might have become Unionists now feel betrayed by the DUP and abandoned by Westminster. However there's still the current generation that is in charge, and it's not like there's no Unionists under 40. However there is a good chance my kids will see Eire completely unified.

The Republic of Ireland also is pretty liberal now, it seems, and guarantees freedom of religion in its constitution. So there doesn't seem to be a consequence with respect to religious practice associated with which government rules Northern Ireland. Maybe Ireland will buy it from the UK?

The UK's last land border might disappear :D What a historic outcome that would be.

// not sure if Gibraltar counts or if it has some kind of special status


Ireland buy Northern Ireland? The UK would pay us to take it. Seriously, it's a complete drain on their resources, with very little return. If/when a United Ireland happens you can be sure the UK will be (happily) paying for a large part of the transition.
 
2021-07-21 5:49:07 PM  

Cormee: Gubbo: eurotrader: Free NI and let them join the rest of the republic of Ireland. Bonus is NI rejoins the EU with all the rights and privileges of 1st world. When is the vote for NI to leave and join?

Thank you for plan to restart the troubles.

If Boris gets his way, and there is a physical border between the North and South there will be a massive democratic majority in NI wanting to join the Republic in a few short years. There is currently a razor-edge majority remaining in favour of the union, a border, combined with Sinn Féin's almost-guaranteed majority in Stormon next year, would certainly swing it in favour of a United Ireland.

I get your point about hardcore loyalists taking up weapons, but they are a tiny minority. The last two generations of protestants have been far more moderate. The paramilitaries would have little or no support.


My god. You're Irish as well and you believe that....

I can only assume that you, much like myself, just don't know the type of people that would be taking up arms
 
2021-07-21 5:57:26 PM  

Arkanaut: inglixthemad: Marcus Aurelius: eurotrader: Free NI and let them join the rest of the republic of Ireland. Bonus is NI rejoins the EU with all the rights and privileges of 1st world. When is the vote for NI to leave and join?

Brexit made NI a de facto part of the EU.  The border can't go through Ireland, so it has to go through the North Sea.  NI unionists are dying off in any case.

My guess is, at most, Unification will happen a generation sooner. A lot of young people who might have become Unionists now feel betrayed by the DUP and abandoned by Westminster. However there's still the current generation that is in charge, and it's not like there's no Unionists under 40. However there is a good chance my kids will see Eire completely unified.

The Republic of Ireland also is pretty liberal now, it seems, and guarantees freedom of religion in its constitution.So there doesn't seem to be a consequence with respect to religious practice associated with which government rules Northern Ireland. Maybe Ireland will buy it from the UK?

The UK's last land border might disappear :D What a historic outcome that would be.

// not sure if Gibraltar counts or if it has some kind of special status


Not only are these things guaranteed by Ireland's own laws and constitution but they are also party to all the EU agreements that require that they do that... like the EU court of human rights and all that jazz. So not only have they committed to these principles, they've opened themselves up to external review to prove that they actually do these things.
 
2021-07-21 6:01:43 PM  
My favorite is the L with the slash. A woman with that is marriage material.
 
2021-07-21 6:18:15 PM  

Gubbo: Cormee: Gubbo: eurotrader: Free NI and let them join the rest of the republic of Ireland. Bonus is NI rejoins the EU with all the rights and privileges of 1st world. When is the vote for NI to leave and join?

Thank you for plan to restart the troubles.

If Boris gets his way, and there is a physical border between the North and South there will be a massive democratic majority in NI wanting to join the Republic in a few short years. There is currently a razor-edge majority remaining in favour of the union, a border, combined with Sinn Féin's almost-guaranteed majority in Stormon next year, would certainly swing it in favour of a United Ireland.

I get your point about hardcore loyalists taking up weapons, but they are a tiny minority. The last two generations of protestants have been far more moderate. The paramilitaries would have little or no support.

My god. You're Irish as well and you believe that....

I can only assume that you, much like myself, just don't know the type of people that would be taking up arms


I grew up watching the IRA and the UVF, and I understand that the only way they can operate is with a local support network - not just safe houses, financial support, but also from more moderates - banging tin pans in the streets when the army is approaching, painting murals, people turning a blind eye to the local terrorist groups, and their daily activities. Any such people, supporting loyalist terrorists would only exist today in tiny hardcore pockets, in Belfast loyalist enclaves and a couple of loyalist areas in the north most parts of Northern Ireland. This isn't the northern Ireland of 30 years ago.
 
2021-07-21 6:28:45 PM  

Cormee: Gubbo: Cormee: Gubbo: eurotrader: Free NI and let them join the rest of the republic of Ireland. Bonus is NI rejoins the EU with all the rights and privileges of 1st world. When is the vote for NI to leave and join?

Thank you for plan to restart the troubles.

If Boris gets his way, and there is a physical border between the North and South there will be a massive democratic majority in NI wanting to join the Republic in a few short years. There is currently a razor-edge majority remaining in favour of the union, a border, combined with Sinn Féin's almost-guaranteed majority in Stormon next year, would certainly swing it in favour of a United Ireland.

I get your point about hardcore loyalists taking up weapons, but they are a tiny minority. The last two generations of protestants have been far more moderate. The paramilitaries would have little or no support.

My god. You're Irish as well and you believe that....

I can only assume that you, much like myself, just don't know the type of people that would be taking up arms

I grew up watching the IRA and the UVF, and I understand that the only way they can operate is with a local support network - not just safe houses, financial support, but also from more moderates - banging tin pans in the streets when the army is approaching, painting murals, people turning a blind eye to the local terrorist groups, and their daily activities. Any such people, supporting loyalist terrorists would only exist today in tiny hardcore pockets, in Belfast loyalist enclaves and a couple of loyalist areas in the north most parts of Northern Ireland. This isn't the northern Ireland of 30 years ago.


It's not the same northern Ireland that it was 30 years ago, I agree.

But that can change very very quickly.
 
2021-07-21 6:35:20 PM  

kbronsito: Not only are these things guaranteed by Ireland's own laws and constitution but they are also party to all the EU agreements that require that they do that... like the EU court of human rights and all that jazz. So not only have they committed to these principles, they've opened themselves up to external review to prove that they actually do these things.


Well, the EU hasn't been great about upholding those principles when they've been violated by the ruling parties in Hungary and Poland. Ireland seems like it's going to be OK for now though.
 
2021-07-21 6:47:11 PM  

Arkanaut: kbronsito: Not only are these things guaranteed by Ireland's own laws and constitution but they are also party to all the EU agreements that require that they do that... like the EU court of human rights and all that jazz. So not only have they committed to these principles, they've opened themselves up to external review to prove that they actually do these things.

Well, the EU hasn't been great about upholding those principles when they've been violated by the ruling parties in Hungary and Poland. Ireland seems like it's going to be OK for now though.


It was also the EU who announced they would impose a hard border, with border checks, a few months ago, before backing down within hours. When you have both Sinn Fein and the Unionists calling you an idiot you know you messed up.

And from TFA: "I am gratified that a strong bipartisan majority in Congress, as well as the Biden administration, continue to support the Good Friday Agreement in all its dimensions, which includes no hard border on the island of Ireland."

For the hundredth time, the GFA says no such thing. Read it. It's only a few pages. Nowhere does it say there cannot be a border.

In fact, the GFA says the people of NI have the right to determine their future relationship with the Republic. So they could in theory decide they want a hard border. A deal that said that can never happen would in itself violate the GFA and the North's right of self determination.

/Of course the UK doesn't want a hard border. But it wants trade with NI to carry on. This agreement includes a clause that the UK can walk away if it wants. If it comes to it they could. The EU and Eire can either talk or have a hard border.
 
Xai [TotalFark]
2021-07-21 7:14:03 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Arkanaut: kbronsito: Not only are these things guaranteed by Ireland's own laws and constitution but they are also party to all the EU agreements that require that they do that... like the EU court of human rights and all that jazz. So not only have they committed to these principles, they've opened themselves up to external review to prove that they actually do these things.

Well, the EU hasn't been great about upholding those principles when they've been violated by the ruling parties in Hungary and Poland. Ireland seems like it's going to be OK for now though.

It was also the EU who announced they would impose a hard border, with border checks, a few months ago, before backing down within hours. When you have both Sinn Fein and the Unionists calling you an idiot you know you messed up.

And from TFA: "I am gratified that a strong bipartisan majority in Congress, as well as the Biden administration, continue to support the Good Friday Agreement in all its dimensions, which includes no hard border on the island of Ireland."

For the hundredth time, the GFA says no such thing. Read it. It's only a few pages. Nowhere does it say there cannot be a border.

In fact, the GFA says the people of NI have the right to determine their future relationship with the Republic. So they could in theory decide they want a hard border. A deal that said that can never happen would in itself violate the GFA and the North's right of self determination.

/Of course the UK doesn't want a hard border. But it wants trade with NI to carry on. This agreement includes a clause that the UK can walk away if it wants. If it comes to it they could. The EU and Eire can either talk or have a hard border.


technicalities aside, I think even you agree that a hard border in ireland would trigger a ton of violence and is pretty much universally accepted to be a bad idea.

The issue is what realistic, workable, practical alternative do you propose - after all it's you and people like you that created this problem.
 
2021-07-21 7:24:57 PM  
Stupid EU playing by the rules!
 
2021-07-21 7:26:03 PM  
No one wants that border back.
 
2021-07-21 7:28:51 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-07-21 7:32:55 PM  

Carter Pewterschmidt: Arkanaut: kbronsito: Not only are these things guaranteed by Ireland's own laws and constitution but they are also party to all the EU agreements that require that they do that... like the EU court of human rights and all that jazz. So not only have they committed to these principles, they've opened themselves up to external review to prove that they actually do these things.

Well, the EU hasn't been great about upholding those principles when they've been violated by the ruling parties in Hungary and Poland. Ireland seems like it's going to be OK for now though.

It was also the EU who announced they would impose a hard border, with border checks, a few months ago, before backing down within hours. When you have both Sinn Fein and the Unionists calling you an idiot you know you messed up.

And from TFA: "I am gratified that a strong bipartisan majority in Congress, as well as the Biden administration, continue to support the Good Friday Agreement in all its dimensions, which includes no hard border on the island of Ireland."

For the hundredth time, the GFA says no such thing. Read it. It's only a few pages. Nowhere does it say there cannot be a border.

In fact, the GFA says the people of NI have the right to determine their future relationship with the Republic. So they could in theory decide they want a hard border. A deal that said that can never happen would in itself violate the GFA and the North's right of self determination.

/Of course the UK doesn't want a hard border. But it wants trade with NI to carry on. This agreement includes a clause that the UK can walk away if it wants. If it comes to it they could. The EU and Eire can either talk or have a hard border.


Right so, seasoned politicians and lawmakers from Ireland, the EU, the USA, interpret the GFA as being threatened by the possibility of a hard border. But some fantasist clown on the internet guarantees us that's not the case. Got it 👍, false alarm, nothing to worry about.
 
2021-07-21 8:12:29 PM  

Klyukva: inglixthemad: However there is a good chance my kids will see Eire completely unified.

...under English rule.


I would see an alternative as more likely.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-07-21 8:12:48 PM  

Cormee: Carter Pewterschmidt: Arkanaut: kbronsito: Not only are these things guaranteed by Ireland's own laws and constitution but they are also party to all the EU agreements that require that they do that... like the EU court of human rights and all that jazz. So not only have they committed to these principles, they've opened themselves up to external review to prove that they actually do these things.

Well, the EU hasn't been great about upholding those principles when they've been violated by the ruling parties in Hungary and Poland. Ireland seems like it's going to be OK for now though.

It was also the EU who announced they would impose a hard border, with border checks, a few months ago, before backing down within hours. When you have both Sinn Fein and the Unionists calling you an idiot you know you messed up.

And from TFA: "I am gratified that a strong bipartisan majority in Congress, as well as the Biden administration, continue to support the Good Friday Agreement in all its dimensions, which includes no hard border on the island of Ireland."

For the hundredth time, the GFA says no such thing. Read it. It's only a few pages. Nowhere does it say there cannot be a border.

In fact, the GFA says the people of NI have the right to determine their future relationship with the Republic. So they could in theory decide they want a hard border. A deal that said that can never happen would in itself violate the GFA and the North's right of self determination.

/Of course the UK doesn't want a hard border. But it wants trade with NI to carry on. This agreement includes a clause that the UK can walk away if it wants. If it comes to it they could. The EU and Eire can either talk or have a hard border.

Right so, seasoned politicians and lawmakers from Ireland, the EU, the USA, interpret the GFA as being threatened by the possibility of a hard border. But some fantasist clown on the internet guarantees us that's not the case. Got it 👍, false alarm, nothing to worry about.


To be fair, this is Carter you're talking to.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-07-21 8:14:46 PM  
Why didn't anyone recognize that the status in Ireland might cause problems with Brexit. I'm sure these issues are a surprise to all.
 
2021-07-21 9:07:29 PM  

Buckerlin: Why didn't anyone recognize that the status in Ireland might cause problems with Brexit. I'm sure these issues are a surprise to all.


In 1998 no person thought the UK would be Soo absolutely idiotic to leave the common market and have a hard border ever needed in Ireland. Granted it was only a small majority of the UK that succumbed to the lies pedaled by brexiteers but  they were adamant even with every sane and rational person saying Brexit was idiotic and would harm the UK.
 
2021-07-22 2:44:51 AM  

Buckerlin: Why didn't anyone recognize that the status in Ireland might cause problems with Brexit. I'm sure these issues are a surprise to all.


They did - lots of people did. There's even a video of a Northern Irish businessman voicing his concern about red tape around imports and exports to Northern Ireland to/from the UK, to Johnson, to which Johnson replies and tells him to throw it in the bin, and to tell anyone requesting the documentation that 'the prime minister told him he could throw it out' (or something to that effect).

Lots and lots of people realised there were issues with this, Johnson ignored them in favour of a few headlines in the Express.
 
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