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(NBC New York)   Delta variant causing havoc around the world. Beta variant: Hold my beer   (nbcnewyork.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Vaccine, infectious delta variant, Vaccination, Immune system, France of the Beta variant, cases of the beta variant, Last week, persistent presence of cases  
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3688 clicks; posted to Main » on 21 Jul 2021 at 9:50 AM (9 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-07-21 9:36:37 AM  
There's plenty on anti vaxers out there that are eager to help the virus mutate further.  And it gets stronger with every change.  Eventually it will become strong enough to overcome the vaccines and wipe us all out.
 
2021-07-21 9:52:08 AM  
This going to be like naming hurricanes, isn't it? Only it goes the opposite direction, when they run out of Greek letters they'll come up with cutesy names.
 
2021-07-21 9:54:50 AM  

oldernell: There's plenty on anti vaxers out there that are eager to help the virus mutate further.  And it gets stronger with every change.  Eventually it will become strong enough to overcome the vaccines and wipe us all out.


This isn't strictly true. Some mutations will make it less deadly, less infectious etc.

Of course those mutations won't spread, so we only see the bad ones.
 
2021-07-21 9:57:21 AM  
France worrying about the wrong variant.


Results Compared to non-VOC SARS-CoV-2 strains, the adjusted elevation in risk associated with N501Y-positive variants was 59% (49-69%) for hospitalization; 105% (82-134%) for ICU admission; and 61% (40-87%) for death. Increases with Delta variant were more pronounced: 120% (93-153%) for hospitalization; 287% (198-399%) for ICU admission; and 137% (50-230%) for death.
 
2021-07-21 10:01:45 AM  

oldernell: There's plenty on anti vaxers out there that are eager to help the virus mutate further.  And it gets stronger with every change.  Eventually it will become strong enough to overcome the vaccines and wipe us all out.


If smallpox, the bubonic plague, the flu, HIV, ebola and marburg hasnt wiped us out yet, what makes you think COVID will?

Even if lets say, COVID omega variant had a R0 of 15, a 3 weeks asymptomatic period, death rate of 50% and evaded vaccines, it still wouldnt wipe us all out.
 
2021-07-21 10:02:45 AM  
On the bright side, millions of migrant children are coming into the southern borders to regenerate the US population. They are the hero's in this tragedy.

THIS IS GOD'S PLAN
 
2021-07-21 10:07:32 AM  
Maybe the Beta variant is a greater problem in Europe because of Europe's widespread reliance on the AstraZeneca-Oxford vaccine, which has markedly reduced efficacy against Beta (still decent at preventing severe disease, but minimal protection against infection and transmission.)

From what I understand, the other vaccines all retain much better efficacy against Beta.
 
2021-07-21 10:07:49 AM  

Gubbo: oldernell: There's plenty on anti vaxers out there that are eager to help the virus mutate further.  And it gets stronger with every change.  Eventually it will become strong enough to overcome the vaccines and wipe us all out.

This isn't strictly true. Some mutations will make it less deadly, less infectious etc.

Of course those mutations won't spread, so we only see the bad ones.


A friend of mine is a doctor with a master's in public health. She's not an epidemiologist, though, but I'd say her opinion is pretty qualified all things considered.

She says the likely trend is that, eventually, a variant that is less dangerous but more infectious pops up and takes over, and that's how we got the common cold coronaviruses.
 
2021-07-21 10:14:07 AM  

Gubbo: oldernell: There's plenty on anti vaxers out there that are eager to help the virus mutate further.  And it gets stronger with every change.  Eventually it will become strong enough to overcome the vaccines and wipe us all out.

This isn't strictly true. Some mutations will make it less deadly, less infectious etc.

Of course those mutations won't spread, so we only see the bad ones.


The ones that make it less deadly will still spread just fine, in fact probably even better in the long term as the hosts can get infected again and again.

Congratulations anti-vaxers, you just welcomed a second respiratory disease that kills a lot of people every year for the near future.  It's probably to late to be contained by vaccines now.  The upside is that we've developed mRNA vaccines at a rapid rate and they'll probably be able to be adjusted for future variants rapidly.

When the reactionaries came out with "it's no worse than the flu" I immediately went to "do we really want another disease that kills tens of thousands of Americans every year?"
 
2021-07-21 10:18:48 AM  

lolmao500: oldernell: There's plenty on anti vaxers out there that are eager to help the virus mutate further.  And it gets stronger with every change.  Eventually it will become strong enough to overcome the vaccines and wipe us all out.

If smallpox, the bubonic plague, the flu, HIV, ebola and marburg hasnt wiped us out yet, what makes you think COVID will?

Even if lets say, COVID omega variant had a R0 of 15, a 3 weeks asymptomatic period, death rate of 50% and evaded vaccines, it still wouldnt wipe us all out.


That's... So comforting.
 
2021-07-21 10:19:17 AM  
Alrighty then, Delta dudes. Time to show those Beta cucks who is the boss, right? Right?
 
2021-07-21 10:19:37 AM  
At this point I guess it'll be twinkies and cockroaches by the time the Omega variant shows up.
 
2021-07-21 10:20:07 AM  

Dafatone: She says the likely trend is that, eventually, a variant that is less dangerous but more infectious pops up and takes over, and that's how we got the common cold coronaviruses.


And how long does she suspect that will take? That half-truth is meaningless without taking into account the time required for natural immunity to evolve. It's a downright deadly lie to leave that off, and is part of the reason that Americans downplay covid so much. The common cold didn't become the common cold in a year...

If she hasn't noticed, higher transmissibility means higher viral loads, and higher viral loads means case outcome is worse. Every time a new variant comes along it spreads more quickly, and it also becomes more deadly. THAT is the trend we are seeing....

Pathogens become less dangerous when we have better vaccines or simply evolve better immune responses in the herd. That process may take centuries if not millennia to happen naturally.
 
2021-07-21 10:20:35 AM  
Wait until they hear about this Delta / Beta crossbreed I've been working on.
 
2021-07-21 10:21:45 AM  
The supplied picture in the article, is like a where's Waldo of finding the topless woman.
 
2021-07-21 10:22:33 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-07-21 10:24:21 AM  

Dafatone: Gubbo: oldernell: There's plenty on anti vaxers out there that are eager to help the virus mutate further.  And it gets stronger with every change.  Eventually it will become strong enough to overcome the vaccines and wipe us all out.

This isn't strictly true. Some mutations will make it less deadly, less infectious etc.

Of course those mutations won't spread, so we only see the bad ones.

A friend of mine is a doctor with a master's in public health. She's not an epidemiologist, though, but I'd say her opinion is pretty qualified all things considered.

She says the likely trend is that, eventually, a variant that is less dangerous but more infectious pops up and takes over, and that's how we got the common cold coronaviruses.


I think the near-universal consensus is that there is no eradicating COVID at this point, and the end-stage is that it's going to eventually become just another endemic virus that circulates and causes cold or flu-like symptoms.  This will happen after basically everyone on Earth has some immunity, either throw vaccination or prior infection.

The end-stage is not in doubt.  The only real question is how many people have to die along the way to getting to that point.
 
2021-07-21 10:24:28 AM  

lolmao500: oldernell: There's plenty on anti vaxers out there that are eager to help the virus mutate further.  And it gets stronger with every change.  Eventually it will become strong enough to overcome the vaccines and wipe us all out.

If smallpox, the bubonic plague, the flu, HIV, ebola and marburg hasnt wiped us out yet, what makes you think COVID will?

Even if lets say, COVID omega variant had a R0 of 15, a 3 weeks asymptomatic period, death rate of 50% and evaded vaccines, it still wouldnt wipe us all out.


Let's hope the empending anarchistic hellhole that would spring out of it won't. At that point you might as well include zombies because its going to get ugly.
 
2021-07-21 10:27:49 AM  

tfresh: empending



Typo Analysis Conclusion:    User unaware of proper spelling.
 
2021-07-21 10:29:41 AM  
Toga party!
 
2021-07-21 10:30:53 AM  
i2.wp.comView Full Size
 
2021-07-21 10:32:05 AM  

Stibium: Dafatone: She says the likely trend is that, eventually, a variant that is less dangerous but more infectious pops up and takes over, and that's how we got the common cold coronaviruses.

And how long does she suspect that will take? That half-truth is meaningless without taking into account the time required for natural immunity to evolve. It's a downright deadly lie to leave that off, and is part of the reason that Americans downplay covid so much. The common cold didn't become the common cold in a year...

If she hasn't noticed, higher transmissibility means higher viral loads, and higher viral loads means case outcome is worse. Every time a new variant comes along it spreads more quickly, and it also becomes more deadly. THAT is the trend we are seeing....

Pathogens become less dangerous when we have better vaccines or simply evolve better immune responses in the herd. That process may take centuries if not millennia to happen naturally.


Jesus dude I'm not advocating for herd immunity over here like some sort of asshole. This isn't a "let's let COVID run its course" post.
 
2021-07-21 10:36:26 AM  

oldernell: There's plenty on anti vaxers out there that are eager to help the virus mutate further.  And it gets stronger with every change.  Eventually it will become strong enough to overcome the vaccines and wipe us all out.


If your entire worldview is based on American partisan politics, it might seems like that's true. Keep in mind right now in India, there are a billion unvaccinated people. There are another billion unvaccinated across Africa. Right across our souther border there are 90 million unvaccinated people. Covid is not lacking for mutation opportunities even if you convince your crazy uncle in Louisiana to get the shot.

The good news is more variants will form which are likely to be less virulent and more contagious (like the delta variant) which will spread broadly and serve to immunize the unvaccinated without causing nearly the same loss in life we saw early on. Take a look at the UK, their cases are 23x higher than they were two month ago, but deaths are barely 4x higher.  Thinking of every new variant as bad news isn't correct.
 
2021-07-21 10:37:09 AM  

lolmao500: oldernell: There's plenty on anti vaxers out there that are eager to help the virus mutate further.  And it gets stronger with every change.  Eventually it will become strong enough to overcome the vaccines and wipe us all out.

If smallpox, the bubonic plague, the flu, HIV, ebola and marburg hasnt wiped us out yet, what makes you think COVID will?

Even if lets say, COVID omega variant had a R0 of 15, a 3 weeks asymptomatic period, death rate of 50% and evaded vaccines, it still wouldnt wipe us all out.


I, for one, welcome our new Sentinelese overlords
 
2021-07-21 10:48:10 AM  

lolmao500: Even if lets say, COVID omega variant had a R0 of 15, a 3 weeks asymptomatic period, death rate of 50% and evaded vaccines, it still wouldnt wipe us all out.


Such a disease would not directly kill everyone, it's true, but it could well cause a societal collapse: a sudden removal of 50% of the population would severely damage the way our civilisations are set up.

Sure, mankind as a whole survived the black death, but 'survived' is not much of a standard. Major plagues do break societies; it can take centuries to recover.
 
2021-07-21 10:52:33 AM  

Lord Rust: removal of 50% of the population would severely damage the way our civilisations are set up.


Yeah, it would fu*king rule.
 
2021-07-21 10:56:04 AM  

dothemath: Lord Rust: removal of 50% of the population would severely damage the way our civilisations are set up.

Yeah, it would fu*king rule.


babbletop.comView Full Size
 
2021-07-21 10:57:40 AM  
People won't give a shiat until it starts killing their pet dogs. Seriously. Let a few Goldendoodles die and everyone will rush to get vaccinated.
 
2021-07-21 10:59:22 AM  

GrinzGrimly: Take a look at the UK, their cases are 23x higher than they were two month ago, but deaths are barely 4x higher. Thinking of every new variant as bad news isn't correct.


This is very likely not because the new variants are much less deadly. If I remember right, the mortality hasn't changed that much.

What has changed is
- the oldest & most likely to die from corona are now mostly vaccinated in the UK
- being vaccinated helps even if you do contract covid
- improved treatment methods. In the beginning, we had little clue of what are the best practices for treated severe COVID19 infections.
- possibly the average age of the infected shifting towards younger people, although this might a result of changing testing patterns. In the beginning, tests were rare, so only people with severe symptoms, usually the elderly, were tested.
 
2021-07-21 11:00:05 AM  

Dafatone: Stibium: Dafatone: She says the likely trend is that, eventually, a variant that is less dangerous but more infectious pops up and takes over, and that's how we got the common cold coronaviruses.

And how long does she suspect that will take? That half-truth is meaningless without taking into account the time required for natural immunity to evolve. It's a downright deadly lie to leave that off, and is part of the reason that Americans downplay covid so much. The common cold didn't become the common cold in a year...

If she hasn't noticed, higher transmissibility means higher viral loads, and higher viral loads means case outcome is worse. Every time a new variant comes along it spreads more quickly, and it also becomes more deadly. THAT is the trend we are seeing....

Pathogens become less dangerous when we have better vaccines or simply evolve better immune responses in the herd. That process may take centuries if not millennia to happen naturally.

Jesus dude I'm not advocating for herd immunity over here like some sort of asshole. This isn't a "let's let COVID run its course" post.


I wasn't trying to attack you, I was scrutinizing your expert's dumb opinion that perpetuates the generic anti-vax myth that covid goes away. I expect a doctor to be able to think critically and exercise common sense, and at the very least to have kept up to date with some strange, exotic disease that kills as many Americans as cancer and heart disease...
 
2021-07-21 11:04:03 AM  

Lord Rust: lolmao500: Even if lets say, COVID omega variant had a R0 of 15, a 3 weeks asymptomatic period, death rate of 50% and evaded vaccines, it still wouldnt wipe us all out.

Such a disease would not directly kill everyone, it's true, but it could well cause a societal collapse: a sudden removal of 50% of the population would severely damage the way our civilisations are set up.

Sure, mankind as a whole survived the black death, but 'survived' is not much of a standard. Major plagues do break societies; it can take centuries to recover.


The Black Death allowed the surviving peasants to demand better wages and living conditions as there were so few of them left to work the land. Cold comfort for the dead but plagues can end up improving society.
 
2021-07-21 11:07:37 AM  

Stibium: Dafatone: Stibium: Dafatone: She says the likely trend is that, eventually, a variant that is less dangerous but more infectious pops up and takes over, and that's how we got the common cold coronaviruses.

And how long does she suspect that will take? That half-truth is meaningless without taking into account the time required for natural immunity to evolve. It's a downright deadly lie to leave that off, and is part of the reason that Americans downplay covid so much. The common cold didn't become the common cold in a year...

If she hasn't noticed, higher transmissibility means higher viral loads, and higher viral loads means case outcome is worse. Every time a new variant comes along it spreads more quickly, and it also becomes more deadly. THAT is the trend we are seeing....

Pathogens become less dangerous when we have better vaccines or simply evolve better immune responses in the herd. That process may take centuries if not millennia to happen naturally.

Jesus dude I'm not advocating for herd immunity over here like some sort of asshole. This isn't a "let's let COVID run its course" post.

I wasn't trying to attack you, I was scrutinizing your expert's dumb opinion that perpetuates the generic anti-vax myth that covid goes away. I expect a doctor to be able to think critically and exercise common sense, and at the very least to have kept up to date with some strange, exotic disease that kills as many Americans as cancer and heart disease...


She was saying that, eventually, that's what COVID will become. She's not at all downplaying the pandemic. She pushes vaccines very, very hard on her patients.
 
2021-07-21 11:08:42 AM  

oldernell: There's plenty on anti vaxers out there that are eager to help the virus mutate further.  And it gets stronger with every change.  Eventually it will become strong enough to overcome the vaccines and wipe us all out.


It's actually the low titer vaxed that are breeding these vaccine evading escape mutations.  Breakthrough cases feature microenvironments with selection pressures that nurture the antibody resistant escapees.

Syncytial viruses are not good vaccine candidates because syncytial infection is insulated from the humoral antibody response.  I think we are going to find claims of less severe illness to be somewhat dubious.  We might even find breakthrough illness to be more predisposed to death--low titers can cause all sorts of problems when the subject is exposed to similar antigen, like ADE.  I really wish we had a full, Delta-tuned breakthrough dataset so that we could actually see WTF is going on.
 
2021-07-21 11:10:00 AM  
Hey there's some boobs in that image! It's like where's waldo.
 
2021-07-21 11:14:10 AM  

electricjebus: When the reactionaries came out with "it's no worse than the flu" I immediately went to "do we really want another disease that kills tens of thousands of Americans every year?"


Exactly this.

I never could quite figure out why so many people were so indifferent to the introduction of a new dangerous disease to the population. Weren't the ones we already had enough already?
 
2021-07-21 11:27:55 AM  

Dafatone: She was saying that, eventually, that's what COVID will become. She's not at all downplaying the pandemic. She pushes vaccines very, very hard on her patients.


I didn't say she's downplaying the pandemic but if you want to go there then I'll remind the both of you that lie was proclaimed loudly by Trump et al specifically to downplay the pandemic, and that eventually we will all be dead, almost certainly well before covid becomes no more deadly than the common cold.
 
2021-07-21 11:38:07 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


Darwin called & said he needed more Company....!!!!!!
 
2021-07-21 11:38:48 AM  

Schmerd1948: lolmao500: oldernell: There's plenty on anti vaxers out there that are eager to help the virus mutate further.  And it gets stronger with every change.  Eventually it will become strong enough to overcome the vaccines and wipe us all out.

If smallpox, the bubonic plague, the flu, HIV, ebola and marburg hasnt wiped us out yet, what makes you think COVID will?

Even if lets say, COVID omega variant had a R0 of 15, a 3 weeks asymptomatic period, death rate of 50% and evaded vaccines, it still wouldnt wipe us all out.

That's... So comforting.


If that were to happen, we wouldnt be wiped out but Im pretty sure a whole lot of countries would collapse into total chaos.
 
2021-07-21 11:41:43 AM  

Stibium: Dafatone: She says the likely trend is that, eventually, a variant that is less dangerous but more infectious pops up and takes over, and that's how we got the common cold coronaviruses.

And how long does she suspect that will take? That half-truth is meaningless without taking into account the time required for natural immunity to evolve. It's a downright deadly lie to leave that off, and is part of the reason that Americans downplay covid so much. The common cold didn't become the common cold in a year...

If she hasn't noticed, higher transmissibility means higher viral loads, and higher viral loads means case outcome is worse. Every time a new variant comes along it spreads more quickly, and it also becomes more deadly. THAT is the trend we are seeing....

Pathogens become less dangerous when we have better vaccines or simply evolve better immune responses in the herd. That process may take centuries if not millennia to happen naturally.


Solution that may totally not backfire... Genetically engineer a covid virus variant that is not deadly but more contagious... that way you vaccinate the antivaxxers without actually vaccinating them since theyre babies and afraid of needles.

I mean, we made Rna vaccines, the next step is to genetically engineer existing viruses to weaken em by 99% and wipe out the existing deadlier variants.
 
2021-07-21 11:51:37 AM  

GrinzGrimly: The good news is more variants will form which are likely to be less virulent and more contagious (like the delta variant)


Delta variant is 2.8 times deadlier per the study in Canada. But yeah

Take a look at the UK, their cases are 23x higher than they were two month ago, but deaths are barely 4x higher.

Yeah... because of vaccines.
 
2021-07-21 11:53:38 AM  

schubie: People won't give a shiat until it starts killing their pet dogs. Seriously. Let a few Goldendoodles die and everyone will rush to get vaccinated.


Thats a good idea. Maybe the CIA should set up a propaganda office for COVID to scare the morons into taking the vaccines.

Fauci should join the game since his career is nearly over anyways.

Publish a bunch of stories saying non-vaccinated folks got covid, infected their dogs/cats and the dogs/cats died.
 
2021-07-21 11:57:10 AM  

lolmao500: Stibium: Dafatone: She says the likely trend is that, eventually, a variant that is less dangerous but more infectious pops up and takes over, and that's how we got the common cold coronaviruses.

And how long does she suspect that will take? That half-truth is meaningless without taking into account the time required for natural immunity to evolve. It's a downright deadly lie to leave that off, and is part of the reason that Americans downplay covid so much. The common cold didn't become the common cold in a year...

If she hasn't noticed, higher transmissibility means higher viral loads, and higher viral loads means case outcome is worse. Every time a new variant comes along it spreads more quickly, and it also becomes more deadly. THAT is the trend we are seeing....

Pathogens become less dangerous when we have better vaccines or simply evolve better immune responses in the herd. That process may take centuries if not millennia to happen naturally.

Solution that may totally not backfire... Genetically engineer a covid virus variant that is not deadly but more contagious... that way you vaccinate the antivaxxers without actually vaccinating them since theyre babies and afraid of needles.

I mean, we made Rna vaccines, the next step is to genetically engineer existing viruses to weaken em by 99% and wipe out the existing deadlier variants.


I've mentioned this before here, I think that's going to be the final solution to the pandemic in the coming years. The possibilities really are endless with what more advanced genomic solutions can come up with, a universal vaccine for everything!

Of course that sword cuts both ways, genomic editing machinery isn't really that expensive anymore.
 
2021-07-21 12:00:33 PM  

Stibium: Dafatone: She was saying that, eventually, that's what COVID will become. She's not at all downplaying the pandemic. She pushes vaccines very, very hard on her patients.

I didn't say she's downplaying the pandemic but if you want to go there then I'll remind the both of you that lie was proclaimed loudly by Trump et al specifically to downplay the pandemic, and that eventually we will all be dead, almost certainly well before covid becomes no more deadly than the common cold.


I mean this with all due respect. Get a grip.

A doctor telling me, in private, that pandemic viruses tend to evolve towards more infectious, less dangerous variants, and that that's how we wind up with viruses like the common cold, is not telling me a half-truth, a lie, or repeating Trump.

Neither is me posting that the doctor told me that.
 
2021-07-21 12:27:30 PM  

Dafatone: Stibium: Dafatone: She was saying that, eventually, that's what COVID will become. She's not at all downplaying the pandemic. She pushes vaccines very, very hard on her patients.

I didn't say she's downplaying the pandemic but if you want to go there then I'll remind the both of you that lie was proclaimed loudly by Trump et al specifically to downplay the pandemic, and that eventually we will all be dead, almost certainly well before covid becomes no more deadly than the common cold.

I mean this with all due respect. Get a grip.

A doctor telling me, in private, that pandemic viruses tend to evolve towards more infectious, less dangerous variants, and that that's how we wind up with viruses like the common cold, is not telling me a half-truth, a lie, or repeating Trump.

Neither is me posting that the doctor told me that.


Don't bother. Unless you openly attack anyone that disagrees with the CNN narrative, "YOU'S A TRUMPER!!"
 
2021-07-21 12:38:17 PM  

Dafatone: Stibium: Dafatone: She was saying that, eventually, that's what COVID will become. She's not at all downplaying the pandemic. She pushes vaccines very, very hard on her patients.

I didn't say she's downplaying the pandemic but if you want to go there then I'll remind the both of you that lie was proclaimed loudly by Trump et al specifically to downplay the pandemic, and that eventually we will all be dead, almost certainly well before covid becomes no more deadly than the common cold.

I mean this with all due respect. Get a grip.

A doctor telling me, in private, that pandemic viruses tend to evolve towards more infectious, less dangerous variants, and that that's how we wind up with viruses like the common cold, is not telling me a half-truth, a lie, or repeating Trump.

Neither is me posting that the doctor told me that.


You're the one being defensive here...

Look, everyone here has heard the MAGA lie that "covid goes away." It is built upon the thesis that over time communicable diseases get less deadly over time because killing the host means it is less likely that they will transmit. There is a kernel of truth to that, eventually only the more successful pathogens survive due to the process of natural selection favoring less mortality and more transmissibility. However, that process of natural selection to make that reality takes time. If you mention the long term trend endpoint without mentioning that getting to that long term endpoint is a long term process you are at best being ignorant or disingenuous, and at worst lying by omission. Mistake or not, it's still bullshiat, and a doctor of all people should know better!!!

Despite influenza being with us since prehistory and yet presently more deadly than the common cold should have given the both of you pause to just think for a second; influenza hasn't become like the common cold in thousands of years despite yearly infections among people to challenge the herd, so why should we expect coronavirus to do just that within a lifetime, let alone a year or even a decade? An intelligent person should have no expectation, nor should an intelligent person blithely pass along the opinion of an expert who apparently has such expectation.

Like I said, in the long term we'll all be dead. I don't deserve a PhD nor to be called an expert for exercising a little common sense and critical thinking. If you perceive that to be a personal attack on you or are being defensive because I think your expert's opinion is vacuous and intellectually dishonest that may say more about you than it does me.
 
2021-07-21 12:44:19 PM  

Stibium: Dafatone: Stibium: Dafatone: She was saying that, eventually, that's what COVID will become. She's not at all downplaying the pandemic. She pushes vaccines very, very hard on her patients.

I didn't say she's downplaying the pandemic but if you want to go there then I'll remind the both of you that lie was proclaimed loudly by Trump et al specifically to downplay the pandemic, and that eventually we will all be dead, almost certainly well before covid becomes no more deadly than the common cold.

I mean this with all due respect. Get a grip.

A doctor telling me, in private, that pandemic viruses tend to evolve towards more infectious, less dangerous variants, and that that's how we wind up with viruses like the common cold, is not telling me a half-truth, a lie, or repeating Trump.

Neither is me posting that the doctor told me that.

You're the one being defensive here...

Look, everyone here has heard the MAGA lie that "covid goes away." It is built upon the thesis that over time communicable diseases get less deadly over time because killing the host means it is less likely that they will transmit. There is a kernel of truth to that, eventually only the more successful pathogens survive due to the process of natural selection favoring less mortality and more transmissibility. However, that process of natural selection to make that reality takes time. If you mention the long term trend endpoint without mentioning that getting to that long term endpoint is a long term process you are at best being ignorant or disingenuous, and at worst lying by omission. Mistake or not, it's still bullshiat, and a doctor of all people should know better!!!

Despite influenza being with us since prehistory and yet presently more deadly than the common cold should have given the both of you pause to just think for a second; influenza hasn't become like the common cold in thousands of years despite yearly infections among people to challenge the herd, so why should we expect coronavirus to do just that within a lifetime, let alone a year or even a decade? An intelligent person should have no expectation, nor should an intelligent person blithely pass along the opinion of an expert who apparently has such expectation.

Like I said, in the long term we'll all be dead. I don't deserve a PhD nor to be called an expert for exercising a little common sense and critical thinking. If you perceive that to be a personal attack on you or are being defensive because I think your expert's opinion is vacuous and intellectually dishonest that may say more about you than it does me.


You've accused me of lying, telling dangerous half truths, and repeating Trump. You're damn right I'm being defensive.

I'm glad you recognize you're not an expert. I'm going to continue listening to experts.
 
2021-07-21 12:46:17 PM  

Stibium: If you mention the long term trend endpoint without mentioning that getting to that long term endpoint is a long term process you are at best being ignorant or disingenuous,


It's in Dafatone's Weeners!!!

Dafatone: She says the likely trend is that, eventually, a variant that is less dangerous but more infectious pops up and takes over, and that's how we got the common cold coronaviruses.


You even quoted it in your first attack
 
2021-07-21 12:48:25 PM  

Stibium: Dafatone: Stibium: Dafatone: She was saying that, eventually, that's what COVID will become. She's not at all downplaying the pandemic. She pushes vaccines very, very hard on her patients.

I didn't say she's downplaying the pandemic but if you want to go there then I'll remind the both of you that lie was proclaimed loudly by Trump et al specifically to downplay the pandemic, and that eventually we will all be dead, almost certainly well before covid becomes no more deadly than the common cold.

I mean this with all due respect. Get a grip.

A doctor telling me, in private, that pandemic viruses tend to evolve towards more infectious, less dangerous variants, and that that's how we wind up with viruses like the common cold, is not telling me a half-truth, a lie, or repeating Trump.

Neither is me posting that the doctor told me that.

You're the one being defensive here...

Look, everyone here has heard the MAGA lie that "covid goes away." It is built upon the thesis that over time communicable diseases get less deadly over time because killing the host means it is less likely that they will transmit. There is a kernel of truth to that, eventually only the more successful pathogens survive due to the process of natural selection favoring less mortality and more transmissibility. However, that process of natural selection to make that reality takes time. If you mention the long term trend endpoint without mentioning that getting to that long term endpoint is a long term process you are at best being ignorant or disingenuous, and at worst lying by omission. Mistake or not, it's still bullshiat, and a doctor of all people should know better!!!

Despite influenza being with us since prehistory and yet presently more deadly than the common cold should have given the both of you pause to just think for a second; influenza hasn't become like the common cold in thousands of years despite yearly infections among people to challenge the herd, so why should we expect coronav ...


Not only does it takes a while, its not always the case.

"The statement that 'in the history of virology, there has never, ever, been a viral mutation that resulted in a virus that was more lethal' appears to be quite untrue," Timothy Sheahan, virologist and assistant professor for the Gillings School of Global Public Health of the University of North Carolina, told USA TODAY.

Sheahan pointed to several examples such as the Ebola virus, which was discovered in 2016 to have undergone a mutation that not only made it more transmissible but likely more infective. This variant eventually died when the epidemic ended in 2016. The West Nile virus was found in 1999 to have mutated into a highly virulent strain, killing crows on multiple continents.

The 1918 Spanish flu pandemic, estimated to have killed at least 50 million people worldwide, is another example, said Chua.

A May study out of the Robert Koch Institute in Berlin, Germany, found evidence that the virus responsible did mutate into more lethal variants. These deadlier strains, responsible for three later influenza outbreaks, likely made the virus better at spreading between humans rather than birds, its natural hosts, and better at evading the immune system.


This whole "dont worry it ll totally evolve to be less lethal pinky promise" is wishful thinking. Chances are that yes, it will be the case but its not 100%. Not even close.
 
2021-07-21 2:08:10 PM  

Dafatone: Gubbo: oldernell: There's plenty on anti vaxers out there that are eager to help the virus mutate further.  And it gets stronger with every change.  Eventually it will become strong enough to overcome the vaccines and wipe us all out.

This isn't strictly true. Some mutations will make it less deadly, less infectious etc.

Of course those mutations won't spread, so we only see the bad ones.

A friend of mine is a doctor with a master's in public health. She's not an epidemiologist, though, but I'd say her opinion is pretty qualified all things considered.

She says the likely trend is that, eventually, a variant that is less dangerous but more infectious pops up and takes over, and that's how we got the common cold coronaviruses.


Except every new variant of this motherfarker so far is WORSE, not less virulent.

There is no pressure against that when it does 9/10 of its spreading before the victim gets sick.
 
2021-07-21 2:11:39 PM  
Just have Biden issue an EO gitmoing all antivaxxers.

Problem solved.
 
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