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(Twitter)   Joy Reid was on Colbert last night and explained the difference between religions and cults. Is she right?   (twitter.com) divider line
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359 clicks; posted to Discussion » on 20 Jul 2021 at 9:20 PM (5 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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6 days ago  
Original Tweet:

 
6 days ago  
If it's Joy Reid, yes
 
6 days ago  
In a religion, your savior may die for you. In a personality cult, you might be asked to die for your savior.

How many people have been asked to go to war or kill others in the name of their religion?  How many people have indeed died for their religious beliefs?

I would say, in a religion, you are asked to give your all to your savior, including your free will, for promise of reward in the afterlife.  In a cult, you are asked to give your all to your savior, including your free will, for promise of reward in the afterlife, but not for as long as a religion has been doing it.
 
6 days ago  
In the narrow context she's discussing, yes she's right.

But big picture, a cult deifies living people giving them sole power, whereas religion deifies one or more deities who are not currently living people, or never were, and the power structure is distributed more widely.
 
6 days ago  
I'm not certain exactly where the line is drawn, but for me a religion is public about their beliefs, philosophy, dogma and teachings where a cult is closed and even members have no idea what the inner cabal is up to, which is typically something nefarious.
 
6 days ago  
In a cult there's one guy who knows it's all bulshiat. Religion is what happens when that guy dies.
 
6 days ago  

QuesoDelicioso: In a cult there's one guy who knows it's all bulshiat. Religion is what happens when that guy dies.


Came here to say exactly that!
 
5 days ago  

QuesoDelicioso: In a cult there's one guy who knows it's all bulshiat. Religion is what happens when that guy dies.


I regret that I have only one smart and funny for this
 
5 days ago  
i.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
5 days ago  
If your leader is 'infallible' and has a direct line to 'God" to make policies.
it's a cult.
Ring kissing on your knees is also a give away there.
 
5 days ago  
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5 days ago  
She is absolutely right. They gave up on "a better life for you" a long time ago in favor of pure Will to Power and taking the stuff - money, clean air and water, education, etc. - that could give you a better life and giving it to a few very rich people. The way to sell that product is by pushing groupthink, hatred of outsiders, purity, and loyalty unto death.
 
5 days ago  

Benevolent Misanthrope: In a religion, your savior may die for you. In a personality cult, you might be asked to die for your savior.

How many people have been asked to go to war or kill others in the name of their religion?  How many people have indeed died for their religious beliefs?

I would say, in a religion, you are asked to give your all to your savior, including your free will, for promise of reward in the afterlife.  In a cult, you are asked to give your all to your savior, including your free will, for promise of reward in the afterlife, but not for as long as a religion has been doing it.


What's this "Savior" thing? Jews don't have Saviors. Neither do Muslims, Jains, Zoroastrains, Buddhists, Bahais, Hindus, Confucianists, Taoists, Omoto-kyo believers, Wiccans, Satanists, Settites, Asatruar, Vodun practitioners, or Shintoists. Assuming that religion == Christianity is a mistake.
 
5 days ago  
The only difference between a religion and a cult is mainstream acceptance, which is predicated upon size and longevity.  The more adherents, the longer it's been around, the more likely it is to move from C to R.

Some people claim the distinction is in if the savior figure is alive, but I say no, scientology is still considered a cult, despite Ronny Hubbard being long dead.
 
5 days ago  
In a cult, the group is led by a charismatic figure who implies to his followers that he's either chosen by god or god himself, and uses the cult as a method of personally enriching himself and having sex with lots of his followers.

In a religion, that guy is dead.
 
5 days ago  

anuran: Benevolent Misanthrope: In a religion, your savior may die for you. In a personality cult, you might be asked to die for your savior.

How many people have been asked to go to war or kill others in the name of their religion?  How many people have indeed died for their religious beliefs?

I would say, in a religion, you are asked to give your all to your savior, including your free will, for promise of reward in the afterlife.  In a cult, you are asked to give your all to your savior, including your free will, for promise of reward in the afterlife, but not for as long as a religion has been doing it.

What's this "Savior" thing? Jews don't have Saviors. Neither do Muslims, Jains, Zoroastrains, Buddhists, Bahais, Hindus, Confucianists, Taoists, Omoto-kyo believers, Wiccans, Satanists, Settites, Asatruar, Vodun practitioners, or Shintoists. Assuming that religion == Christianity is a mistake.


Not the person you responded to, but the savior figure, at least as I intended to use the term, can be a deity, or an ancestor figure, or the living spirit of the planet, or generic "higher power"
 
5 days ago  
Mine is a religion.  Yours is a cult.   That's the only difference.
 
5 days ago  

QuesoDelicioso: In a cult there's one guy who knows it's all bulshiat. Religion is what happens when that guy dies.


By this definition isn't the Trump worship a religion?  Mostly because Trump actually beleives all the stupid delusional shiat he says?  Or do all the grifters around him cancel that out?
 
5 days ago  
Religions are cults. Cults are religions. Cult is derived from Latin cultus for worship.

//Remember when Joy Reid got canceled for talking about how gays were sinful or whatever and then she said she was hacked and everybody just forgot about it?
 
5 days ago  
Of course, a late night talk show COULD actually bring on any number of ACTUAL religion scholars who could address this in an engaging, energetic way. Stephen Prothero, Phillip Jenkins, or any number of others. There are clear and systematic differences between emergent and longstanding religions.

But sure, bring on Joy Reid.
 
5 days ago  

Creepy Lurker Guy: I'm not certain exactly where the line is drawn, but for me a religion is public about their beliefs, philosophy, dogma and teachings where a cult is closed and even members have no idea what the inner cabal is up to, which is typically something nefarious.


Which religion do you think doesn't have a cabal with shrouded with secrecy.

Cause guy. Do I have knews for your
 
5 days ago  

Somacandra: Of course, a late night talk show COULD actually bring on any number of ACTUAL religion scholars who could address this in an engaging, energetic way. Stephen Prothero, Phillip Jenkins, or any number of others. There are clear and systematic differences between emergent and longstanding religions.

But sure, bring on Joy Reid.


SOMEone didn't watch the clip.
 
5 days ago  

anuran: Benevolent Misanthrope: In a religion, your savior may die for you. In a personality cult, you might be asked to die for your savior.

How many people have been asked to go to war or kill others in the name of their religion?  How many people have indeed died for their religious beliefs?

I would say, in a religion, you are asked to give your all to your savior, including your free will, for promise of reward in the afterlife.  In a cult, you are asked to give your all to your savior, including your free will, for promise of reward in the afterlife, but not for as long as a religion has been doing it.

What's this "Savior" thing? Jews don't have Saviors. Neither do Muslims, Jains, Zoroastrains, Buddhists, Bahais, Hindus, Confucianists, Taoists, Omoto-kyo believers, Wiccans, Satanists, Settites, Asatruar, Vodun practitioners, or Shintoists. Assuming that religion == Christianity is a mistake.


Uh you may want to read up on some of those religions you listed.

Cause you are wrong about well almost all of them.
 
5 days ago  

Rozotorical: Which religion do you think doesn't have a cabal with shrouded with secrecy.


The one I tried to start on Fark a couple years ago:  Homerism.  Our God is Homer Simpson.  Other gods rule with lightning bolts or hammers.  Homer rules with his TV remote.  Our job on Earth is to entertain Homer.  If we lead an amusing life, when we die we come back in syndication.

No secrecy there.
 
5 days ago  
As everyone has already stated: In a cult there is a leader at the top who knows it's a scam. In a religion, that leader is dead.
 
5 days ago  

PlaidJaguar: The only difference between a religion and a cult is mainstream acceptance, which is predicated upon size and longevity.  The more adherents, the longer it's been around, the more likely it is to move from C to R.

Some people claim the distinction is in if the savior figure is alive, but I say no, scientology is still considered a cult, despite Ronny Hubbard being long dead.


In an alternate universe Charles Manson, Jim Jones, and David Koresh were new century prophets and martyrs with reverent religious traditions and followings, while Jesus, Mohammed, and Moses were crazy kook cult leaders justifiably dispatched by their respective local authorities.
 
5 days ago  
There is no difference
 
5 days ago  
The difference between a religion and a cult is what the group will do when you try to leave their church.
 
5 days ago  
She's full of shiat and she knows it.

Every farking religion on Earth has sent people off to die for their faith. Not all of them are stupid enough to promise 72 virgins for it, but they all do it. The difference between cult and religion on cult isn't even time. It is number of adherents. If enough people think it is a religion, it is a religion.

The church of the FSM is not a religion.

Primarily because it hasn't sent anyone off to die for his noodlely appendage.
 
5 days ago  

madgonad: Primarily because it hasn't sent anyone off to die for his noodlely appendage.


"I shot a man in Reno just to gnocchi fry"
 
5 days ago  

Rozotorical: anuran: Benevolent Misanthrope: In a religion, your savior may die for you. In a personality cult, you might be asked to die for your savior.

How many people have been asked to go to war or kill others in the name of their religion?  How many people have indeed died for their religious beliefs?

I would say, in a religion, you are asked to give your all to your savior, including your free will, for promise of reward in the afterlife.  In a cult, you are asked to give your all to your savior, including your free will, for promise of reward in the afterlife, but not for as long as a religion has been doing it.

What's this "Savior" thing? Jews don't have Saviors. Neither do Muslims, Jains, Zoroastrains, Buddhists, Bahais, Hindus, Confucianists, Taoists, Omoto-kyo believers, Wiccans, Satanists, Settites, Asatruar, Vodun practitioners, or Shintoists. Assuming that religion == Christianity is a mistake.

Uh you may want to read up on some of those religions you listed.

Cause you are wrong about well almost all of them.


it is sad that you are ignorant of just how ignorant you are
 
5 days ago  
My religion doesn't want anyone gullible enough to pay its admission fee.
 
5 days ago  
One of the biggest signs of a cult is how the group treats apostates. If the group demands that everyone in the group cut all ties with the apostate, even if the apostate is a family member, it's a cult.
 
5 days ago  

Cyberluddite: In a cult, the group is led by a charismatic figure who implies to his followers that he's either chosen by god or god himself, and uses the cult as a method of personally enriching himself and having sex with lots of his followers.

In a religion, that guy is dead.


Didn't realize that Hubbard was still alive.
 
5 days ago  
She's not wrong, but ultimately religion vs. cult is decided by how they're organized:

"In a cult there's one person at the top who knows it's a scam.In a religion, that person is dead."
 
5 days ago  
The way I've always demarcated it is:
Cults want money up front before they'll tell you everything they believe.
Religions give away everything they believe and then ask for money.

By that measure, Trumpism is definitely a cult.  They may be awful free with all their craziness, but the real important stuff, the holiest of holies, you have to pay for and you'll get it next week™.  Things like absolute proof of election fraud, which if you'd just donate enough money, will be revealed unto you*.

*Offer not valid in Minnesota, Wisconsin, Michigan, Pennsylvania, Arizona, Georgia, or this reality.
 
5 days ago  
Does it matter if they're equally stupid?
 
5 days ago  
They're two different flavors of the same poison.
 
5 days ago  
Who cares?  I wasn't going to join either one.  This is nothing more than intellectual masturbation.

People are weak and open to brainwashing.  I know--we have the entire internet here as proof.  The entirety of advertising knows this fact.  We depend on this weakness to make our economy run.  It works great.

You want to do some lofty exegesis of religion?  It's all made up, just like most of the other stuff that we believe in so that we can sleep at night.
Don't bore  me.  Believing in fake shiat are  the only religions we have.
 
5 days ago  
A lot time ago in college I took a course called Sociology of Religion. The Sociology professor gave a fairly uncontroversial definition of the difference. His definition is that in a cult membership is largely acquired through recruitment. In a religion the majority of the membership are born and raised that way. So the LDS church (Mormons) is clearly a religion by now. Scientology is probably halfway through that transition. Maybe even farther.
 
5 days ago  
nope.  they are the same thing.

in both cases you are asked to sacrifice for your "savior."  sometimes it's how you live, others it's whether or not you live but every religion demands for faaaaaar more than you get back.
 
5 days ago  

PlaidJaguar: The only difference between a religion and a cult is mainstream acceptance, which is predicated upon size and longevity.  The more adherents, the longer it's been around, the more likely it is to move from C to R.

Some people claim the distinction is in if the savior figure is alive, but I say no, scientology is still considered a cult, despite Ronny Hubbard being long dead.


THIS.

Elvis Presley isn't alive, but if a few friends and I worship his words and do weekly magical incantations to turn some bread and wine into Elvis Presley's body and blood - which we then CONSUME - that is a cult.

However, if we do the same for Jesus Christ, that is a religions.

What is the difference? Its how many adherents there are.

A religion is simply a cult that has gone mainstream, become popular.
A cult is simply a baby religion (usually new/young), not yet popular.
Both of them make outrageously huge assertions without ANY solid, scientifically verifiable/testable evidence to back themselves up.
 
5 days ago  

The Flexecutioner: SOMEone didn't watch the clip.


Hey come on now, that's not what we do here. We shiatpost, we derail threads, we don't rag on people for not clicking the link. Not all of us had the same opportunities growing up
 
4 days ago  
I thought it was a cult if its not the popular form of religion.
 
4 days ago  
Top-secret cabal regarding faith?  I'm an Episcopal...we let it all hang out.

In Roman Catholicism there are no secret revelations held as intrinsic to the faith.  The Fatima revelations were kept secret, but changed no facts about the faith.  (#3 was the attempt on ++JPII).  Ask a question on a matter of dogma, and the answer will be clear and well-documented.
 
4 days ago  
A lot of people have given their thoughts upthread, so allow me to offer my two cents.
(Keep in mind I'm not discussing right or wrong, just what people might classify of each).
The difference between a cult and a religion is how the main figure or inner circle adhere to their own teachings.
Telling people to forego this material world while riding in luxury cars and wearing Rolexes? Cults.
Telling people to live a good life and adhere to that and spread those teachings? Religion.

/note: you can start from one and end up in the other
 
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