Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(Guardian)   Why it's time to ground the TARDIS again   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Silly, Doctor Who, Soap operas, T hree series, new Doctor, Russell T Davies, current run, 900-year-old Time Lord, Chris Chibnall  
•       •       •

1038 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 20 Jul 2021 at 10:45 PM (9 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



61 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all

 
2021-07-20 9:28:00 PM  
"Sometimes it feels like the show is being buried under the weight of its own continuity"

Stop, stop right there. I can understand and accept other justifications but not that one. In shows like this continuity and lore are important. You can't deal with that find another show to work on where laziness is acceptable.
 
2021-07-20 11:21:29 PM  
Haven't watched for quite awhile, since I cut the cable quite a few years back.
Made some effort to see some of Jodi's early episodes.

So, are they still rubbing white male's noses in their ancestors actions.
Or did they remember it's supposed to be entertainment and not a social lecture hall.
 
2021-07-20 11:22:26 PM  
Bring back multi-episode serials. Stop making every series "1st ep sets up a ridiculous mystery THAT WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING that will be forgotten about then promptly solved in the final episode, maybe a two-parter if you're lucky then won't mean shiat afterward." There, I fixed Doctor Who for you, please give me Money Dollars

/or Pounds
//I'm not picky
 
2021-07-20 11:34:39 PM  

Trik: Haven't watched for quite awhile, since I cut the cable quite a few years back.
Made some effort to see some of Jodi's early episodes.

So, are they still rubbing white male's noses in their ancestors actions.
Or did they remember it's supposed to be entertainment and not a social lecture hall.


You've forgotten Doctor Who has always hit themes like this.

I'm sorry that a show that deals with history actually be truthful about it.
 
2021-07-20 11:35:27 PM  

Bslim: In shows like this continuity and lore are important.


Sort of.  Doctor Who has changed significantly a few times, but it's generally built upon its own history rather than re-writing it.  And while NuWho was initially pretty great, they started re-writing all sorts of the show's history (and actual real history in a couple of cases) in pursuit of social advocacy.   And that was obviously more important to them than actual writing quality... which you could see coming from a mile away, but the people invested in the show being 'progressive' wouldn't listen to any naysayers, because obviously you were some kind of social primitive and it was your bigotry talking and not any actual valid point, right?

And here we are.  A show I loved as a kid, started loving again as an adult and tried to introduce my kids to... ground into the dirt by people who are supposedly talented, supposedly fans / students of the show... yet produced stuff that showed they didn't really understand what made the original great despite the almost non-existent budget and the horrid special effects it brought.  Eccleston was a good Doctor - even when the writing wasn't great in general, it was pretty good for his character (and of course he did a fantastic job with selling it).  That has not been true for those who came after, as acting talent aside the writing has been gradually declining in quality.  The writers care too much about the wrong things and not enough about the right things, and they've killed the show because of it.

They got what they wanted, and it's the shiat the rest of us predicted it would be.  Yay.
 
2021-07-20 11:44:46 PM  

Bslim: "Sometimes it feels like the show is being buried under the weight of its own continuity"

Stop, stop right there. I can understand and accept other justifications but not that one. In shows like this continuity and lore are important. You can't deal with that find another show to work on where laziness is acceptable.


They through out continuity a long, long time ago.

The Cybermen is the biggest offender, but there are plenty to go around.
 
2021-07-20 11:55:42 PM  
My advice regarding Doctor Who: if you want to fix what's currently wrong with the show, don't bother changing the cast or the sets, or coming up with some crazy/powerful/scary new villain or trendy new companion. No, they should start with finding some new blood for the writer's room.

Whitaker has been fine, but the writing has generally ranged from mediocre to terrible, much as it was during the last couple seasons of the Capaldi era. It's become painfully obvious that what the show needs is to bring in some new, more talented writers, or at least ones who have the benefit of a fresh perspective.
 
2021-07-20 11:57:55 PM  

Trik: Haven't watched for quite awhile, since I cut the cable quite a few years back.
Made some effort to see some of Jodi's early episodes.

So, are they still rubbing white male's noses in their ancestors actions.
Or did they remember it's supposed to be entertainment and not a social lecture hall.


Sooo.....I'm guessing you're no Star Trek or Twilight Zone fan.

//I mean, Be That Your Last Battlefield pretty much whacks you over the head with the idea that racism is wrong.
//And about 50% of the orginal Twilight Zone episodes are metaphors for the evils of Soviet Russia and Communism
//I'm not saying that Doctor Who doesn't need a huge scripting overhaul (it really does), but social commentary in Fantasy/Sci-Fi goes all the way back to Aristophanes' The Birdsin 414 B.C.  It's not new.
 
2021-07-21 12:04:10 AM  

LurkerSupreme: My advice regarding Doctor Who: if you want to fix what's currently wrong with the show, don't bother changing the cast or the sets, or coming up with some crazy/powerful/scary new villain or trendy new companion. No, they should start with finding some new blood for the writer's room.

Whitaker has been fine, but the writing has generally ranged from mediocre to terrible, much as it was during the last couple seasons of the Capaldi era. It's become painfully obvious that what the show needs is to bring in some new, more talented writers, or at least ones who have the benefit of a fresh perspective.


If they want to actuallybe diverse and socially conscious, they should hire some female and POC writers.  Might make stories involving race or other social issues be less hackneyed, if diverse people helped write them.
 
2021-07-21 12:34:25 AM  

Darth_Lukecash: Trik: Haven't watched for quite awhile, since I cut the cable quite a few years back.
Made some effort to see some of Jodi's early episodes.

So, are they still rubbing white male's noses in their ancestors actions.
Or did they remember it's supposed to be entertainment and not a social lecture hall.

You've forgotten Doctor Who has always hit themes like this.

I'm sorry that a show that deals with history actually be truthful about it.


Not as ham fisted, it was never so blatant.

Earlier Who's brought out past social inequities and laid them in the past.

The Jodi ones I saw took the past and laid responsibility on people in the present.
 
2021-07-21 12:40:59 AM  

Trik: Not as ham fisted, it was never so blatant.

Earlier Who's brought out past social inequities and laid them in the past.


I think that is what most people take issue with.  It's not with what is being addressed, but it has taken any subtext out of it and decided to beat people over the head with it instead.
 
2021-07-21 12:41:11 AM  

Unsung_Hero: Bslim: In shows like this continuity and lore are important.

Sort of.  Doctor Who has changed significantly a few times, but it's generally built upon its own history rather than re-writing it.  And while NuWho was initially pretty great, they started re-writing all sorts of the show's history (and actual real history in a couple of cases) in pursuit of social advocacy.   And that was obviously more important to them than actual writing quality... which you could see coming from a mile away, but the people invested in the show being 'progressive' wouldn't listen to any naysayers, because obviously you were some kind of social primitive and it was your bigotry talking and not any actual valid point, right?

And here we are.  A show I loved as a kid, started loving again as an adult and tried to introduce my kids to... ground into the dirt by people who are supposedly talented, supposedly fans / students of the show... yet produced stuff that showed they didn't really understand what made the original great despite the almost non-existent budget and the horrid special effects it brought.  Eccleston was a good Doctor - even when the writing wasn't great in general, it was pretty good for his character (and of course he did a fantastic job with selling it).  That has not been true for those who came after, as acting talent aside the writing has been gradually declining in quality.  The writers care too much about the wrong things and not enough about the right things, and they've killed the show because of it.

They got what they wanted, and it's the shiat the rest of us predicted it would be.  Yay.


Let see: after Eccleston, Matt Smith, David Tennant, and Stephen Moffatt brought Doctor Who to a world wide audience of 100 countries with 12 million viewers in the UK alone brought in $10 million world wide for ONE showing in a limited simulcast.

Doctor Who is a show that constantly changes, but the core message remains true: be kind, be curious and be active.

Rosa was perhaps the best way of handling a historical trip to the South, and Rosa Parks was accurately portrayed as an active civil rights fighter, and that her ride was always a plan. The point was that the Doctor made sure that history happened, despite the obvious interference from the opposition.

Demons of the Punjabwas a look at how horrific the partition was between the Pakistani and Indian peoples. And all the Doctor could do was to watch once she realized the aliens weren't evil.

The show is still popular in streaming and In digital downloads, does decent in the ratings and incredibly well on iplayer.

So if the "rest of you" were always in a small but loud minority.
 
2021-07-21 12:43:30 AM  

LurkerSupreme: My advice regarding Doctor Who: if you want to fix what's currently wrong with the show, don't bother changing the cast or the sets, or coming up with some crazy/powerful/scary new villain or trendy new companion. No, they should start with finding some new blood for the writer's room.

Whitaker has been fine, but the writing has generally ranged from mediocre to terrible, much as it was during the last couple seasons of the Capaldi era. It's become painfully obvious that what the show needs is to bring in some new, more talented writers, or at least ones who have the benefit of a fresh perspective.


Completely disagree on the Capaldi era, there were some excellent storylines in his second and third seasons. Rocky in his first, since the stories were written with Matt Smith in mind.
 
2021-07-21 12:47:59 AM  
You know, it might be time for a full-fledged reboot of the series.

Run a bunch of three or four-part stories, which loosely tie together into a series.

Consider the reboot as a mid-60s period piece, at least for the first little while. That way, we can use the Tardis as a Police Box unironically :)

Opening story would be a detective (?Peter Grant?), who is looking at a series of attempted breakins at the British Museum, which are similar to similar attempts at the Deutsches Museum and/or Smithsonian...  Our investigator follows an unlikely lead to a junk yard in Trotter's Lane, Shoreditch where he finds a strange couple -- Doctor Freeman and Susan, his grand-daughter-- with an artifact that might have been stolen from the museum.  He follows Susan into a police box, that seems to be where these suspicious people are hiding their loot.  Turns out it's much bigger on the inside...  Roll credits...

Idea is that a bunch of Cosmic McGuffins were stolen on behalf of a collector (think Taneleer Tivan) and were scattered across a number of primitive planets. The Doctor and The Grand-Daughter are TimeLords who are trying to retrieve the McGuffins before the collector can get to them.

So now we have a series story (recover one or more of these artifacts), we have a companion (our detective to be the audience POV), and we can go anywhere in the universe to find shiat.
 
2021-07-21 12:49:26 AM  

Trik: Darth_Lukecash: Trik: Haven't watched for quite awhile, since I cut the cable quite a few years back.
Made some effort to see some of Jodi's early episodes.

So, are they still rubbing white male's noses in their ancestors actions.
Or did they remember it's supposed to be entertainment and not a social lecture hall.

You've forgotten Doctor Who has always hit themes like this.

I'm sorry that a show that deals with history actually be truthful about it.

Not as ham fisted, it was never so blatant.

Earlier Who's brought out past social inequities and laid them in the past.

The Jodi ones I saw took the past and laid responsibility on people in the present.


How can past sin, in a story story set place in times past,  be laid to blame people in the present...

Unless those same group of people are repeating the sins of the past?

One of the most brilliant things Capaldi/Moffatt era did was pointed out how cosmopolitan England was during the Victorian Ages, that Bill lesbianism wasn't a big deal in many eras...or to people around her.
 
2021-07-21 12:53:36 AM  
The writing fell off a cliff and into a gravel pit for me right around the Robots of Sherwood Forrest.
 
2021-07-21 1:18:46 AM  

Bslim: "Sometimes it feels like the show is being buried under the weight of its own continuity"

Stop, stop right there. I can understand and accept other justifications but not that one. In shows like this continuity and lore are important. You can't deal with that find another show to work on where laziness is acceptable.


Continuity?

I thought we were talking about Doctor Who?

I mean, I like the show and all, but its whole essence is to shiat on the very concept of continuity.
 
2021-07-21 1:20:48 AM  

Kirby Muxloe: You know, it might be time for a full-fledged reboot of the series.

Run a bunch of three or four-part stories, which loosely tie together into a series.

Consider the reboot as a mid-60s period piece, at least for the first little while. That way, we can use the Tardis as a Police Box unironically :)

Opening story would be a detective (?Peter Grant?), who is looking at a series of attempted breakins at the British Museum, which are similar to similar attempts at the Deutsches Museum and/or Smithsonian...  Our investigator follows an unlikely lead to a junk yard in Trotter's Lane, Shoreditch where he finds a strange couple -- Doctor Freeman and Susan, his grand-daughter-- with an artifact that might have been stolen from the museum.  He follows Susan into a police box, that seems to be where these suspicious people are hiding their loot.  Turns out it's much bigger on the inside...  Roll credits...

Idea is that a bunch of Cosmic McGuffins were stolen on behalf of a collector (think Taneleer Tivan) and were scattered across a number of primitive planets. The Doctor and The Grand-Daughter are TimeLords who are trying to retrieve the McGuffins before the collector can get to them.

So now we have a series story (recover one or more of these artifacts), we have a companion (our detective to be the audience POV), and we can go anywhere in the universe to find shiat.



So, a reboot of the old Key To Time story line. I wouldn't be opposed to that in principle.
 
2021-07-21 1:25:42 AM  

Darth_Lukecash: LurkerSupreme: My advice regarding Doctor Who: if you want to fix what's currently wrong with the show, don't bother changing the cast or the sets, or coming up with some crazy/powerful/scary new villain or trendy new companion. No, they should start with finding some new blood for the writer's room.

Whitaker has been fine, but the writing has generally ranged from mediocre to terrible, much as it was during the last couple seasons of the Capaldi era. It's become painfully obvious that what the show needs is to bring in some new, more talented writers, or at least ones who have the benefit of a fresh perspective.

Completely disagree on the Capaldi era, there were some excellent storylines in his second and third seasons. Rocky in his first, since the stories were written with Matt Smith in mind.


Second season I'll concede the point on. I loved both the Under the Lake/Before the Flood episodes as well as the Zygon two-parter, and Heaven Sent is an absolute masterpiece on its own, but I still feel like at that point the writing was starting to become uneven. There'd be some great episodes, then the next one would be almost unwatchable. For the last Capaldi season though I stand by my assertion, as in my opinion much of it was just...barely passable. The only episode from that season I really enjoyed without reservations was Extremis, and that was the start of a three-parter which badly failed to land with the last episode.

That said, I was really sad to see Capaldi go. It was so refreshing to have a Doctor that so thoroughly strayed from the trend they had established with Tennant/Smith, not to mention he's just such a fantastic actor. I kinda wish they could have kept Nardole around as well, but I understand Moffat wanting to leave Chibnall with a clean slate so to speak.
 
2021-07-21 1:34:56 AM  
Or they could just set Chris Chibnall on fire and get a show runner who cares about the show and can tell a story without their head up their ass.
 
2021-07-21 5:11:54 AM  
I guess every show has to look and feel like [most popular show at the moment], and if they can't or won't, then just cancel them.

/Daytime soap operas can't compete with Marvel. They have to go.
//The local news isn't like Marvel. Cancel it.
///Re-runs of MASH should also be cancelled.
 
2021-07-21 5:13:30 AM  

alaric3: Or they could just set Chris Chibnall on fire and get a show runner who cares about the show and can tell a story without their head up their ass.


I was so happy when Moffatt was leaving. There couldn't POSSIBLY be a writer worse than Moffatt is at telling stories.

And then they found one.
 
2021-07-21 5:17:43 AM  
But, maybe, in order for them to think reviving Doctor Who would be a brilliant idea, it needs to have another rest first.

...I should think that 18-20 months between seasons series should be quite sufficient, but that's just me.

Jodie has been wonderful as the Doctor, but the writing has been horrendous.  Her first season they basically set her up as Miss Frizzle with a TARDIS.

/Lost me after Spyfall
 
2021-07-21 5:36:51 AM  
I'm not really a fan of the show, although I think Blink is one of the greatest tv episodes of all time, but I don't think it's fair to compare the show to things like WandaVision. Part of the charm of the show is it isn't a spare no expense production. I'd compare it more to the original Star Trek or Twilight Zone, shows that maximized what they could do with limited resources.

What's missing is better stories. I liked Blink because it was clever enough to generate creepy tension just by showing the Doctor on home video! And the monsters were never seen to move yet they generated more tension than anything in WandaVision. Too often the show consists of lazily written stories. A threat shows up, there's some running around various rooms and hallways, that screwdriver thing gets used, and then a clever solution is found at the last second. I suppose if you're a hardcore fan that's adequate but it's boring to someone like me. And things like daleks and cybermen might be pleasing fans but they get a 'meh' from me. Blink didn't have much that you usually see in a typical episode of this show, even the Doctor and companion were barely in it, yet it was completely entertaining. That's no coincidence.
 
2021-07-21 7:09:39 AM  
You can't call it the "Tardis" anymore.  It's the "Developmentally Disabledis" now.

/Was the Downsis, then the Specialis, but you know how PC works.
 
2021-07-21 7:18:41 AM  
They need more episodes where the Doctor fails and people die.
 
2021-07-21 7:20:56 AM  

Kirby Muxloe: Idea is that a bunch of Cosmic McGuffins were stolen on behalf of a collector (think Taneleer Tivan) and were scattered across a number of primitive planets. The Doctor and The Grand-Daughter are TimeLords who are trying to retrieve the McGuffins before the collector can get to them.


Already been done, 4th Doctor.

"Shortly afterward, the powerful White Guardian assigns the Doctor the task of finding the six segments of the Key to Time, sending a young Time Lady named Romana (as portrayed by Mary Tamm) to assist him. The two Gallifreyans travel to a variety of planets, encountering strange and unusual allies and enemies, gathering the six segments and defeat the equally powerful Black Guardian, who sought the Key for himself. After the conclusion of the quest, Romana regenerates into a new form (portrayed then by Lalla Ward)"
 
2021-07-21 7:35:32 AM  

Bslim: In shows like this continuity and lore are important


What? Doctor Who is one of the shows that cares the least about continuity and it's one of the things that allows it to have longevity. It's also why Daleks aren't powered by static electricity or need satellite dishes on their backs to operate away from the metal floors of Skaro.

LurkerSupreme: No, they should start with finding some new blood for the writer's room.


The entire production side of things needs a looking at. The direction is really bad. The editing is awful. They can't successfully hit simple beats that are in the script. It's not just scripts, which have been about standard fare for Doctor Who- a blend of stupid, overly earnest, the odd "oh that was clever". Sure, they could be better, but the actual production isn't even living up to the scripts. I swear to god, I think they let the actors improvise blocking sometimes. The whole thing smacks of "we don't have the money to make the show we want, but we won't let that stop us, we'll just rush on set and take shortcuts to make Roger Corman blush".
 
2021-07-21 8:05:17 AM  
Doctor Who is, and always has been, the type of show you just sit back and enjoy, rather than think about the continuity of the show's universe.
 
2021-07-21 8:17:44 AM  

Darth_Lukecash: How can past sin, in a story story set place in times past,  be laid to blame people in the present...


Apparently a lot of people subscribe to the Sins of the forefathers be laid at the feet of the modern offspring.

It isn't going to win anyone over. Well, except maybe those with no self esteem, you know, cult fodder.

But you get your pitchforks and torches and go after the descendants of ancient eh-holes.
 
2021-07-21 8:19:37 AM  
Yeah...I blame Chibnall for tanking the series.

This misogny surrounding Whittaker just unwarranted.    Real "nuWho" fans should have known a female Doctor was possible.

Before Missy, Moffat has hinted at several times.  Two that come to mind was the pre-reboot "Curse of the Fatal Death"(written by Moffat) and in "The Doctors Wife" he talks about one of his friends and his various reincarnations one of which was a woman.
 
2021-07-21 9:32:25 AM  

KingBiefWhistle: Bring back multi-episode serials. Stop making every series "1st ep sets up a ridiculous mystery THAT WILL CHANGE EVERYTHING that will be forgotten about then promptly solved in the final episode, maybe a two-parter if you're lucky then won't mean shiat afterward." There, I fixed Doctor Who for you, please give me Money Dollars

/or Pounds
//I'm not picky


For me the biggest problem with shows like Dr. Who is that nothing changes. Dr. Who like most super heroes is a warrior for the status quo. The setup whether it be episodic or serial is that something has changed which creates a conflict. The goal of the hero is to return things to status quo ante. This is great for a recurring series because the same tales can be told over and over and over but in the end it is really god damn boring.

You want something different?
Make Dr. Who change history - permanently - then explore the consequences forever. But of course you can't because it is a time travel show that's all about maintaining the status quo.
 
2021-07-21 9:38:31 AM  

NathanAllen: They need more episodes where the Doctor fails and people die.


I like having a broken Doctor that gets excited when he actually wins.  "Just this once Rose, everyone lives!"  Eccleston is probably my favorite.  His performance was bolstered by the War Doctor to me.

Also, can everyone quit pretending that the show got popular for any reason other than Netflix?  It may be streaming on Amazon now, and while they can send a man into space, they cannot develop a satisfying streaming service.
 
2021-07-21 9:56:40 AM  

Trik: Haven't watched for quite awhile, since I cut the cable quite a few years back.
Made some effort to see some of Jodi's early episodes.

So, are they still rubbing white male's noses in their ancestors actions.
Or did they remember it's supposed to be entertainment and not a social lecture hall.


You sound fun
 
2021-07-21 10:02:58 AM  
Fire Chibnall.
Fire Chibnall.
Fire Chibnall.
 
2021-07-21 10:20:42 AM  
Moffat, Chinball.  Why is it people who are awesome showrunners doing awesome shows come to DW and suck?
 
2021-07-21 10:24:10 AM  
i.kym-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2021-07-21 10:27:23 AM  

mjbok: Moffat, Chinball.  Why is it people who are awesome showrunners doing awesome shows come to DW and suck?


If one of the variables changes but the results are the same look to the constants

i.e. maybe the show runner isn't the cause of or the solution to the problem...
 
2021-07-21 10:44:48 AM  

Darth_Lukecash: One of the most brilliant things Capaldi/Moffatt era did was pointed out how cosmopolitan England was during the Victorian Ages, that Bill lesbianism wasn't a big deal in many eras...or to people around her.


It was bullshiat, but sure.  The race issue being more or less completely ignored is BS as well.
 
2021-07-21 10:51:12 AM  
This show died the day Tom Baker fell off that tower.
 
2021-07-21 11:03:08 AM  

mjbok: Moffat, Chinball.  Why is it people who are awesome showrunners doing awesome shows come to DW and suck?


It couldn't possibly be that Doctor Who fans are impossible to please. 

If you're in the room, and everyone is the asshole...
 
2021-07-21 11:23:49 AM  

mjbok: Darth_Lukecash: One of the most brilliant things Capaldi/Moffatt era did was pointed out how cosmopolitan England was during the Victorian Ages, that Bill lesbianism wasn't a big deal in many eras...or to people around her.

It was bullshiat, but sure.  The race issue being more or less completely ignored is BS as well.


Earth history sucks for everyone at some point, but being non-white or not straight is a serious problem for time travellers in historical settings that are of interest to Western viewers.

And yeah, the Romans being casually cool with homosexuality was a significantly flawed misrepresentation of what we know of the period.
 
2021-07-21 11:33:55 AM  

Trik: Darth_Lukecash: How can past sin, in a story story set place in times past,  be laid to blame people in the present...

Apparently a lot of people subscribe to the Sins of the forefathers be laid at the feet of the modern offspring.

It isn't going to win anyone over. Well, except maybe those with no self esteem, you know, cult fodder.

But you get your pitchforks and torches and go after the descendants of ancient eh-holes.


You seem to be taking this VERY personally.
 
2021-07-21 11:38:45 AM  

mjbok: Darth_Lukecash: One of the most brilliant things Capaldi/Moffatt era did was pointed out how cosmopolitan England was during the Victorian Ages, that Bill lesbianism wasn't a big deal in many eras...or to people around her.

It was bullshiat, but sure.  The race issue being more or less completely ignored is BS as well.


Except the race wasn't, as the very racist villain of the episode proved.

The point of the episode was that history was not "just white people" living in London at the time.
 
2021-07-21 11:41:25 AM  

kermit the forg: Trik: Darth_Lukecash: How can past sin, in a story story set place in times past,  be laid to blame people in the present...

Apparently a lot of people subscribe to the Sins of the forefathers be laid at the feet of the modern offspring.

It isn't going to win anyone over. Well, except maybe those with no self esteem, you know, cult fodder.

But you get your pitchforks and torches and go after the descendants of ancient eh-holes.

You seem to be taking this VERY personally.


Sure, go off on that tangent. All the girls will think your kewl.
 
2021-07-21 11:48:27 AM  

TyrantII: Trik: Haven't watched for quite awhile, since I cut the cable quite a few years back.
Made some effort to see some of Jodi's early episodes.

So, are they still rubbing white male's noses in their ancestors actions.
Or did they remember it's supposed to be entertainment and not a social lecture hall.

You sound fun


The Jodi episodes i saw weren't fun.
They were lectures bludgeoning one very small section of the populace.
They were blatant and without guile or attempt to be subtle.
They should have just screamed 'White Men Are Evil' at the camera for 42 minutes.
That might have at least been entertaining in a very dissociative way.

Doctor Who is supposed to be fun and adventurous.

The episodes I saw were about as far as you can get from that.
 
2021-07-21 11:58:14 AM  

alaric3: Or they could just set Chris Chibnall on fire and get a show runner who cares about the show and can tell a story without their head up their ass.


Said it before and I'll say it again.

Chibnall proved, with Broadchurch, that he can do *fantastic* stories and characters.  But (in my useless opinion), since he comes from that world, he has no respect for the Doctor Who properties.

Everything I see from him indicates that he has an attitude that "this is a kiddie show that is *supposed* to suck".  Like he looks at the history of the show, and sees the bad writing, the inconsistencies, the illogic, all the endless deus ex machinas, and the contrived fairy tale happy endings that make no sense, and he thinks that this is all there is to the show.

He misses the spark of nobility that that show inexplicably maintains, that lets it hold its head high *despite* all of the aforementioned surface characteristics.  The parts of the show that give us things like Missy's character depths and internal conflicts, or Capaldi's impassioned speech to the Master and Missy, explaining his philosophy.

Chibnall misses all of that, because in his mind, those sort of aspects are reserved *only* for 'serious' shows like Broadchurch, not for silly, throwaway mass-market pablum like Doctor Who.

So he never even bothers trying.  (I think the closest we got was when Ryan and Graham teamed up to take down Tim Shaw, and by God, they did it with their heads held high, winning the day *and* holding fast to the moral high ground.)
 
2021-07-21 12:05:15 PM  

bark2787: NathanAllen: They need more episodes where the Doctor fails and people die.

I like having a broken Doctor that gets excited when he actually wins.  "Just this once Rose, everyone lives!"  Eccleston is probably my favorite.  His performance was bolstered by the War Doctor to me.

Also, can everyone quit pretending that the show got popular for any reason other than Netflix?  It may be streaming on Amazon now, and while they can send a man into space, they cannot develop a satisfying streaming service.


The David Tennant episode 'Midnight'.  To me, this will always be one of the most impressive episodes of Doctor Who ever, because the writers had the courage to separate the Doctor from his friends and his godlike technology and leave him with nothing other than himself to rely on.

And he *lost*.

He did not communicate with that entity, he did not get any of his questions answered, he did not save the stewardess.  He tried, and he struck out.

And that hurt, and will haunt him near forever.
 
2021-07-21 1:11:06 PM  

taintbaggins: If one of the variables changes but the results are the same look to the constants

i.e. maybe the show runner isn't the cause of or the solution to the problem...


I mean, at the end of the day, the BBC is torn between its ostensible mission and the fact that Doctor Who is actually a cash-cow for their international distribution, but they're not supposed to have cash-cows. And money from international distribution doesn't feed back into the production- so despite being this international hit of a TV show, Doctor Who has to do all this on a budget so small you need an electron microscope to find it, and it has to work in special effects to that and have them turn out not awful, and that's hard. Plus, Doctor Who is the kind of show that doesn't get much opportunity to reuse sets- each story tends to take the characters to new places.

Which, if I were in charge, I'd try and work the budget constraints into the style. Instead of trying to be quick moving and slickly produced, I'd turn the knob back and lift a little more from the classic era in terms of structure and pacing. Do more two parters that allow us to recycle sets, more "base under assault" episodes that can be filmed on one set, stuff like that. I certainly wouldn't do the quantity of location shooting that's become standard in the Chibnall era. I understand it's a great way to get production value without it looking cheap, but that's because it's not cheap.
 
2021-07-21 3:13:01 PM  
Perhaps the BBC can put the production of new series on ice for a while, and instead film remakes of some of the classic storylines/serials.

It shouldn't be too hard consolidating an old 6-parter down to a 1 1/2 - 2 hour movie, especially since there's a LOT of repetitive back and forth in the older series. Get a one-off cast, maybe write out some of the possibly problematic sexist/racial sentiments that would be inappropriate in this day and age, bring the special effects up to modern standards, etc...

Well, at least I would be interested in watching that rather than those awful animated versions of the "lost" episodes.
 
Displayed 50 of 61 comments


Oldest | « | 1 | 2 | » | Newest | Show all


View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking




On Twitter


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.