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(Vox)   A look at how the internet ruined the life of a science fiction author who provided a good treatise on gender   (vox.com) divider line
    More: Sad, Transgender, Gender, short story, Isabel Fall, Woman, Attack Helicopter, community of people, Twitter  
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3114 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 02 Jul 2021 at 7:06 AM (16 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-07-02 8:05:20 AM  
Wow, that's farked up. The people who think Fall should have identified herself as a Trans-woman make a grave mistake. Trans-women are women. It's right they can identify themselves as such.
 
2021-07-02 8:08:01 AM  

mcmnky: Wow, that's farked up. The people who think Fall should have identified herself as a Trans-woman make a grave mistake. Trans-women are women. It's right they can identify themselves as such.


This story is very tricky for me, and I'm not quite sure what to make of it.  What happened to Fall is horrifying, and she absolutely did not deserve to have her life destroyed like this.

On the other hand, if you give your story a title that sounds like a shiatty right-wing meme used to attack and try to hurt trans people, you might want to explain where you're coming from a bit more clearly.  Though that brings up the question of whether it would help -- and, as you've already pointed out, it's entirely up to her to decide how and when she identifies.

All these things are complicated as hell, and social media culture always runs roughshod over any sort of nuance.
 
2021-07-02 8:11:18 AM  
King-Mob
 
2021-07-02 8:14:21 AM  
When social media is driving people to therapy and suicide, maybe it's time to stop calling them "snowflakes" and start looking at where the real problem is. When every message is designed to attract as much attention as possible, they only get more detached from reality.
 
2021-07-02 8:15:00 AM  

jake_lex: mcmnky: Wow, that's farked up. The people who think Fall should have identified herself as a Trans-woman make a grave mistake. Trans-women are women. It's right they can identify themselves as such.

This story is very tricky for me, and I'm not quite sure what to make of it.  What happened to Fall is horrifying, and she absolutely did not deserve to have her life destroyed like this.

On the other hand, if you give your story a title that sounds like a shiatty right-wing meme used to attack and try to hurt trans people, you might want to explain where you're coming from a bit more clearly.  Though that brings up the question of whether it would help -- and, as you've already pointed out, it's entirely up to her to decide how and when she identifies.

All these things are complicated as hell, and social media culture always runs roughshod over any sort of nuance.


I think the problem is that people are literally judging the book by the cover. They saw the title and reacted without reading the actual essay. Imagine if A Modest Proposal For preventing the Children of Poor People From being a Burthen to Their Parents or Country, and For making them Beneficial to the Publick was published today, and people just judged it on the title.

The art of satire needs to be funny or obvious to the general public these days. It's sad.
 
2021-07-02 8:16:26 AM  

Russell_Secord: When social media is driving people to therapy and suicide, maybe it's time to stop calling them "snowflakes" and start looking at where the real problem is. When every message is designed to attract as much attention as possible, they only get more detached from reality.


The old categories and more importantly, The Expected Behaviors of the old categories (only Men can do x, only Women can do y), do not work any longer and we just don't want to admit it yet.
 
2021-07-02 8:18:11 AM  

AnotherBluesStringer: jake_lex: mcmnky: Wow, that's farked up. The people who think Fall should have identified herself as a Trans-woman make a grave mistake. Trans-women are women. It's right they can identify themselves as such.

This story is very tricky for me, and I'm not quite sure what to make of it.  What happened to Fall is horrifying, and she absolutely did not deserve to have her life destroyed like this.

On the other hand, if you give your story a title that sounds like a shiatty right-wing meme used to attack and try to hurt trans people, you might want to explain where you're coming from a bit more clearly.  Though that brings up the question of whether it would help -- and, as you've already pointed out, it's entirely up to her to decide how and when she identifies.

All these things are complicated as hell, and social media culture always runs roughshod over any sort of nuance.

I think the problem is that people are literally judging the book by the cover. They saw the title and reacted without reading the actual essay. Imagine if A Modest Proposal For preventing the Children of Poor People From being a Burthen to Their Parents or Country, and For making them Beneficial to the Publick was published today, and people just judged it on the title.

The art of satire needs to be funny or obvious to the general public these days. It's sad.


A lot of people did judge "A Modest Proposal" on the title.  Swift had to go on an immediate campaign to explain that he didn't actually mean Irish people should eat their kids.  Satire has always been an extremely tricky thing to pull off.
 
2021-07-02 8:20:20 AM  

jake_lex: mcmnky: Wow, that's farked up. The people who think Fall should have identified herself as a Trans-woman make a grave mistake. Trans-women are women. It's right they can identify themselves as such.

This story is very tricky for me, and I'm not quite sure what to make of it.  What happened to Fall is horrifying, and she absolutely did not deserve to have her life destroyed like this.

On the other hand, if you give your story a title that sounds like a shiatty right-wing meme used to attack and try to hurt trans people, you might want to explain where you're coming from a bit more clearly.  Though that brings up the question of whether it would help -- and, as you've already pointed out, it's entirely up to her to decide how and when she identifies.

All these things are complicated as hell, and social media culture always runs roughshod over any sort of nuance.


Explaining herself would absolutely not have helped at all.  Other targets of Twitter mobs desperately tried to explain themselves and those explanations were either twisted or ignored.

Twitter is structurally designed to elevate the worst Tweets.  Those are the ones that get responded to and shared the most.  It's a garbage pile of a website.
 
2021-07-02 8:29:27 AM  
Poor gal, carrying the weight of perceived guilt.

"How do I feel about the nomination? I don't know," Fall says by email. "It's a nice validation to know that some people liked the story enough to nominate it. But it's also dreadful to know that this will just mean reopening the conversation, which will lead to a lot of people being hurt."

The title of a short story should not even move the needle on the nano-agression scale.
Were people "hurt"? Maybe. Where people challenged? Definitely.
 
2021-07-02 8:33:23 AM  

Bathtub Cynic: The old categories and more importantly, The Expected Behaviors of the old categories (only Men can do x, only Women can do y), do not work any longer and we just don't want to admit it yet.


When I was 40, I found out that I have Klinefelter's syndrome. I have some extra chromosomes. The condition is actually kind of common (1 in 1000 births) but when I was a baby, my folks could have gone one way or the other. They decided not to decide, just let me be and as a result I came out a bit more odd than I could have.

The thing is, one in a thousand isn't THAT odd. That's a lot of people, especially since it's not the only way someone can diverge from the usual binary and usual assumptions. For all the bullshiat about gender not being a choice, I know what's going on with me is weird, and while I do understand myself to be a male, there was a point, long after I was born, that it could have gone a different way. And I didn't get all the hormones I should have over my life, so I'm androgynous even now.

I really do think we need to stop policing what's in people's pants, how they behave, and maybe not worry so much about gender at all. Some of gender is behavior. Some of it is social. And 99% of it means not a goddamned thing to anyone but a doctor or the person they're farking. It shouldn't matter. Just let people be.
 
2021-07-02 8:34:24 AM  
Her tale is one of the best pieces of sci fi I've read in years, and I will be voting for it.

Just wanted to get that out there.
 
2021-07-02 8:46:05 AM  
Everyone involved in this quarrel seems utterly rational and emotionally stable.
 
2021-07-02 9:06:50 AM  
We're all narcissists anymore
 
2021-07-02 9:14:38 AM  
In 1969, Helva sexually identified as a spaceship:
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-07-02 9:39:27 AM  

mcmnky: Wow, that's farked up. The people who think Fall should have identified herself as a Trans-woman make a grave mistake. Trans-women are women. It's right they can identify themselves as such.


They're not women by sex, there's a solid argument they're women by gender.

They do not fit neatly in the box defined by the word 'woman', and that is reality.  Any opinion otherwise is just that, an opinion.

Ask any doctor if there are conditions where they would treat a trans woman differently from a woman.
 
2021-07-02 9:43:45 AM  

jake_lex: mcmnky: Wow, that's farked up. The people who think Fall should have identified herself as a Trans-woman make a grave mistake. Trans-women are women. It's right they can identify themselves as such.

This story is very tricky for me, and I'm not quite sure what to make of it.  What happened to Fall is horrifying, and she absolutely did not deserve to have her life destroyed like this.

On the other hand, if you give your story a title that sounds like a shiatty right-wing meme used to attack and try to hurt trans people, you might want to explain where you're coming from a bit more clearly.  Though that brings up the question of whether it would help -- and, as you've already pointed out, it's entirely up to her to decide how and when she identifies.

All these things are complicated as hell, and social media culture always runs roughshod over any sort of nuance.


Fark you. Who gives a flying fark if the story is "tricky" for useless rando on the internet. Fall wrote a science fiction story. That's all. Full stop. To even suggest that she "might want to explain where you're coming from a bit more clearly" is complete, facist bullshiat.

And the intensely frustrating thing about all of this is you and your ilk consider yourselves to be "good people".
 
2021-07-02 9:46:20 AM  

WhippingBoi: And the intensely frustrating thing about all of this is you and your ilk consider yourselves to be "good people".


Compared to you and your ilk, they are. The fact that it rustles your jimmies is just a bonus.
 
2021-07-02 9:46:50 AM  
I have not read this book, but as an immediate knee jerk reaction... I'm not fond of the title. It sounds like it's a comedy title, but, regardless of intentions, it reads like it is punching down. I can see conservatives saying this dismissively as a way of mocking SJWs gone mad. It is an instant turn off. Without knowing a thing about it, I would turn away from it in the same way I would from a book with the N or K word in the title.

It may be perfectly fine. Might be the best thing ever written. But the title is an immediate turn off. Maybe when trans people aren't under attack the way they are it might lose that factor, but sadly, we have a loooooong way to go on that front.
 
2021-07-02 9:51:46 AM  

WhippingBoi: jake_lex: mcmnky: Wow, that's farked up. The people who think Fall should have identified herself as a Trans-woman make a grave mistake. Trans-women are women. It's right they can identify themselves as such.

This story is very tricky for me, and I'm not quite sure what to make of it.  What happened to Fall is horrifying, and she absolutely did not deserve to have her life destroyed like this.

On the other hand, if you give your story a title that sounds like a shiatty right-wing meme used to attack and try to hurt trans people, you might want to explain where you're coming from a bit more clearly.  Though that brings up the question of whether it would help -- and, as you've already pointed out, it's entirely up to her to decide how and when she identifies.

All these things are complicated as hell, and social media culture always runs roughshod over any sort of nuance.

Fark you. Who gives a flying fark if the story is "tricky" for useless rando on the internet. Fall wrote a science fiction story. That's all. Full stop. To even suggest that she "might want to explain where you're coming from a bit more clearly" is complete, facist bullshiat.

And the intensely frustrating thing about all of this is you and your ilk consider yourselves to be "good people".


This, exactly. I think it's a great title, given what she did with the story. Anyone who took it at face value is a moron, a conspiracy nut, an attention whore, or any combination of the three.

It sucks that she suffered the way she did. On the other hand, when you put something out into the public as an artist, you absolutely can't survive if you don't learn to give a lot less farks what reactions you get.
 
2021-07-02 9:52:49 AM  

WhippingBoi: jake_lex: mcmnky: Wow, that's farked up. The people who think Fall should have identified herself as a Trans-woman make a grave mistake. Trans-women are women. It's right they can identify themselves as such.

This story is very tricky for me, and I'm not quite sure what to make of it.  What happened to Fall is horrifying, and she absolutely did not deserve to have her life destroyed like this.

On the other hand, if you give your story a title that sounds like a shiatty right-wing meme used to attack and try to hurt trans people, you might want to explain where you're coming from a bit more clearly.  Though that brings up the question of whether it would help -- and, as you've already pointed out, it's entirely up to her to decide how and when she identifies.

All these things are complicated as hell, and social media culture always runs roughshod over any sort of nuance.

Fark you. Who gives a flying fark if the story is "tricky" for useless rando on the internet. Fall wrote a science fiction story. That's all. Full stop. To even suggest that she "might want to explain where you're coming from a bit more clearly" is complete, facist bullshiat.

And the intensely frustrating thing about all of this is you and your ilk consider yourselves to be "good people".


If the internet wasn't a shiat pile full of people analyzing everything to find something to be offended about, she wouldn't have to explain who she was, thus possibly appeasing one side of the "offended" crowd.  Of course, she would probably piss someone else off, so she's really in a no win situation.  This story has a good lesson behind it, but no one will learn a thing from it.
 
2021-07-02 9:56:25 AM  
I haven't read the story, and I'm not sure how to since the author took it down, but I'd like to. In the quotes from her email exchange with this journalist, she writes beautifully. It would enrich my world to read more of what she has to say, and I'm sad at how shabbily humanity has treated her.
 
2021-07-02 10:07:33 AM  

Jurodan: I have not read this book, but as an immediate knee jerk reaction... I'm not fond of the title. It sounds like it's a comedy title, but, regardless of intentions, it reads like it is punching down. I can see conservatives saying this dismissively as a way of mocking SJWs gone mad. It is an instant turn off. Without knowing a thing about it, I would turn away from it in the same way I would from a book with the N or K word in the title.

It may be perfectly fine. Might be the best thing ever written. But the title is an immediate turn off. Maybe when trans people aren't under attack the way they are it might lose that factor, but sadly, we have a loooooong way to go on that front.


And this is the problem with the internet. People who assume they have a right to be offended and ruin someone's life because they can't be bothered to find out if their assumptions are factually correct.

Life's a challenge, get used to it.
 
2021-07-02 10:15:18 AM  

Jurodan: I have not read this book, but as an immediate knee jerk reaction... I'm not fond of the title. It sounds like it's a comedy title, but, regardless of intentions, it reads like it is punching down. I can see conservatives saying this dismissively as a way of mocking SJWs gone mad. It is an instant turn off. Without knowing a thing about it, I would turn away from it in the same way I would from a book with the N or K word in the title.

It may be perfectly fine. Might be the best thing ever written. But the title is an immediate turn off. Maybe when trans people aren't under attack the way they are it might lose that factor, but sadly, we have a loooooong way to go on that front.


If this is meant to be ironic, good job.

If you're actually serious, you are 100% part of the problem (and I bet you don't even understand why).
 
2021-07-02 10:16:15 AM  

jake_lex: This story is very tricky for me, and I'm not quite sure what to make of it.  What happened to Fall is horrifying, and she absolutely did not deserve to have her life destroyed like this.


Can somebody summarize what actually happened to her?

I gave up somewhere around the fifth paragraph of repeating information from the previous paragraph.
 
2021-07-02 10:25:03 AM  

Lsherm: Jurodan: I have not read this book, but as an immediate knee jerk reaction... I'm not fond of the title. It sounds like it's a comedy title, but, regardless of intentions, it reads like it is punching down. I can see conservatives saying this dismissively as a way of mocking SJWs gone mad. It is an instant turn off. Without knowing a thing about it, I would turn away from it in the same way I would from a book with the N or K word in the title.

It may be perfectly fine. Might be the best thing ever written. But the title is an immediate turn off. Maybe when trans people aren't under attack the way they are it might lose that factor, but sadly, we have a loooooong way to go on that front.

And this is the problem with the internet. People who assume they have a right to be offended and ruin someone's life because they can't be bothered to find out if their assumptions are factually correct.

Life's a challenge, get used to it.


Amazingly, I do not have to harass anyone to have an opinion. I don't condone the people harassing her, nor was I part of it. My choice would be to simply pass over the book if I saw it in a store because of how the title struck me.

Do you pick up every book that has a title that turns you off for context? I don't have time to do that for all the titles that interest me, let alone the ones that don't.
 
2021-07-02 10:31:20 AM  

WhippingBoi: Jurodan: I have not read this book, but as an immediate knee jerk reaction... I'm not fond of the title. It sounds like it's a comedy title, but, regardless of intentions, it reads like it is punching down. I can see conservatives saying this dismissively as a way of mocking SJWs gone mad. It is an instant turn off. Without knowing a thing about it, I would turn away from it in the same way I would from a book with the N or K word in the title.

It may be perfectly fine. Might be the best thing ever written. But the title is an immediate turn off. Maybe when trans people aren't under attack the way they are it might lose that factor, but sadly, we have a loooooong way to go on that front.

If this is meant to be ironic, good job.

If you're actually serious, you are 100% part of the problem (and I bet you don't even understand why).


It wasn't. This is the first time I'd heard of the title and my immediate knee jerk reaction to it. I have no part in the campaign against her in any way, nor would I join in.

I wouldn't go out of my way to even look at it because of the title. And I explained why. I don't have the time or inclination to look at the books I see whose titles are turn offs. If it was recommended by someone I know, I might. But as an immediate reaction, it's not something I would pick up.
 
2021-07-02 10:34:21 AM  

bisi: jake_lex: This story is very tricky for me, and I'm not quite sure what to make of it.  What happened to Fall is horrifying, and she absolutely did not deserve to have her life destroyed like this.

Can somebody summarize what actually happened to her?

I gave up somewhere around the fifth paragraph of repeating information from the previous paragraph.


She's not out as trans publicly, wrote the story under a pseudonym, people accusing her of being a rightwing anti-trans front because it was 'obviously written by a straight man' and trying to doxx her triggered a dysphoric spiral, she voluntarily had the story pulled from publication, committed herself to a mental hospital for suicidal thoughts, and has since given up on both writing and apparently transitioning as a result of all the abuse.
 
2021-07-02 10:35:21 AM  

bisi: jake_lex: This story is very tricky for me, and I'm not quite sure what to make of it.  What happened to Fall is horrifying, and she absolutely did not deserve to have her life destroyed like this.

Can somebody summarize what actually happened to her?

I gave up somewhere around the fifth paragraph of repeating information from the previous paragraph.


She is a trans woman who was anonymous on the internet, which made people question who she was and her motives for writing the story.  Which led to critiques that it had to be a man who wrote the story, which in turn led to a crisis in the writers identity.  So she checked herself into a hospital so she didn't kill herself.
 
2021-07-02 10:40:54 AM  

bisi: jake_lex: This story is very tricky for me, and I'm not quite sure what to make of it.  What happened to Fall is horrifying, and she absolutely did not deserve to have her life destroyed like this.

Can somebody summarize what actually happened to her?

I gave up somewhere around the fifth paragraph of repeating information from the previous paragraph.


Published story.
Initially well recieved.
About a million morons noticed the title and attacked her for being transphobic due to the title being a dumbass meme.
She goes to hospital and story gets pulled for her mental (and physical) health. She seriously considers stopping her own transition, thanks to said morons.
Story gets republished as a ltd edition ebook. Which is good because it puts it in contention for the Hugos.
Her name gets mentioned by about a million morons as an example of Trans erasure and unsafe spaces.

/Pretty sure it's the same million morons both times.
//million may be an exaggeration for effect
///third slashie goes here
 
2021-07-02 10:43:35 AM  
Everything I've read about the internet sci-fi community makes me glad I pay very little attention to the internet sci-fi community.
 
2021-07-02 10:46:33 AM  

HalEmmerich: bisi: jake_lex: This story is very tricky for me, and I'm not quite sure what to make of it.  What happened to Fall is horrifying, and she absolutely did not deserve to have her life destroyed like this.

Can somebody summarize what actually happened to her?

I gave up somewhere around the fifth paragraph of repeating information from the previous paragraph.

She's not out as trans publicly, wrote the story under a pseudonym, people accusing her of being a rightwing anti-trans front because it was 'obviously written by a straight man' and trying to doxx her triggered a dysphoric spiral, she voluntarily had the story pulled from publication, committed herself to a mental hospital for suicidal thoughts, and has since given up on both writing and apparently transitioning as a result of all the abuse.


Thanks.
So, not much more than what I gathered.  She published a controversial story with a provocative title on the internet, then was surprised that it provoked controversy and that the internet did what the internet always does? Huh.

I haven't found anything about the actual doxxing. If that happened, that's horrible and fark those people.
But what I read was mostly that it was a synonym and no actual information about the person was leaked. It sounded more like she actively followed all the comments and that caused the breakdown.
Which, I get it. But maybe don't do that then?
 
2021-07-02 10:54:05 AM  

bisi: synonym


pseudonym... Geez, brain.

Also, thanks for the additional summaries.
 
2021-07-02 11:00:24 AM  
The story being currently unavailable makes it harder to discuss. We only have the title and a description to go off of. And that title. I get that some have used that phrase in a hurtful manner. My son has used it once or twice, in kind of an innocent "we're taking it back" kind of way. I made sure he knew that it could be hurtful directed at others, but at me and by him, it was ok.

I think the real issue is that she came out swinging too hard. If a first time author had written a story called "(N-word) Love Watermelon" and refused to admit they were in fact african american themselves, people would be PISSED regardless of the content.  Readers need to know a little bit about where you're coming from before you take things to that kind of level. (Obviously in saying this i am in no way condoning what happened to her. That was downright farked up and i hope she gets past all of this in the most positive way. I am simply saying that this provocative title should probably have been held back for a third or fourth story, once a proper authors voice and identity had been a little more firmly established.) It certainly didn't help that the story was gaining traction right around the time J.K Rowling started amping up her rhetoric, and this most likely contributed to the negative attention

That said, I do appreciate the boldness in her approach, reminds me a more than a little of Philip K. DIck. I really hope she is able to overcome all of this and eventually return to writing and being her true self.
 
2021-07-02 11:06:20 AM  
First, this was a well done article that made me think, so thanks subs.

Second, hadn't heard the discussion about paranoid vs reparative reading so that's a new thing to consider as well

C.  The more I read or discuss things about or with trans people, the more I feel for how difficult it must be.   I've definitely seen the defensive mentality, even here, but I get where it comes from to some extent.  Hopefully we'll get to the point where just being who you are, isn't such a struggle.

As far as the author goes, I'll have to read the story if I can find it & may she get to a place where she's at peace with who she is.

Last, Twitter is a pox on society & typically serves to magnify the opinions of the worst of us & should be shut down for crimes against humanity.
 
2021-07-02 11:08:17 AM  

Imaginativescreenname: That said, I do appreciate the boldness in her approach, reminds me a more than a little of Philip K. DIck. I really hope she is able to overcome all of this and eventually return to writing and being her true self.


I was thinking of Harlan Ellison when I read the article.  He was notorious even before the internet, so I wonder what would have happened with his stuff.
 
2021-07-02 11:08:18 AM  
Just lookit all that mental-illness.
 
2021-07-02 11:12:01 AM  

Imaginativescreenname: If a first time author had written a story called "(N-word) Love Watermelon" and refused to admit they were in fact african american themselves, people would be PISSED regardless of the content.


I think part of the lesson of this story is that people shouldn't be pissed and that anyone should be able to write what they want.  Why cant a white man write a cleverly written story with that title?  Why does it matter?  The author shouldn't have to explain who they are for you to understand the story or for the title to be acceptable.  The story should speak for itself.  It can either be a racist piece of trash, or a well done satire.

What happened in this story should really wake people up about how we judge things and the way we look at things.
 
2021-07-02 11:18:44 AM  
How Twitter Can Ruin a Life

1. Sign up for Twitter
2. Congrats, your life is ruined

it's really just that simple
 
2021-07-02 11:24:58 AM  

Jeebus Saves: I think part of the lesson of this story is that people shouldn't be pissed and that anyone should be able to write what they want.


The other lesson is that the subject of anything even remotely related to gender identity is absolute poison to anyone in the entertainment industry, and best avoided entirely.
 
2021-07-02 11:36:14 AM  

Jeebus Saves: Imaginativescreenname: If a first time author had written a story called "(N-word) Love Watermelon" and refused to admit they were in fact african american themselves, people would be PISSED regardless of the content.

I think part of the lesson of this story is that people shouldn't be pissed and that anyone should be able to write what they want.  Why cant a white man write a cleverly written story with that title?  Why does it matter?  The author shouldn't have to explain who they are for you to understand the story or for the title to be acceptable.  The story should speak for itself.  It can either be a racist piece of trash, or a well done satire.

What happened in this story should really wake people up about how we judge things and the way we look at things.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-07-02 11:40:15 AM  
For anyone who is curious, the story in question is available on LibGen. I'm not going to link it, but it is easy to find.
 
2021-07-02 11:50:47 AM  

Cardinal Ximenez: First, this was a well done article that made me think, so thanks subs.

Second, hadn't heard the discussion about paranoid vs reparative reading so that's a new thing to consider as well

C.  The more I read or discuss things about or with trans people, the more I feel for how difficult it must be.   I've definitely seen the defensive mentality, even here, but I get where it comes from to some extent.  Hopefully we'll get to the point where just being who you are, isn't such a struggle.

As far as the author goes, I'll have to read the story if I can find it & may she get to a place where she's at peace with who she is.

Last, Twitter is a pox on society & typically serves to magnify the opinions of the worst of us & should be shut down for crimes against humanity.


Wait, you actually read the article? But this is Fark!

/you're right about the rest
 
2021-07-02 12:20:40 PM  
So we shouldn't judge a book by its cover title?
 
2021-07-02 12:27:12 PM  

Jurodan: Do you pick up every book that has a title that turns you off for context? I don't have time to do that for all the titles that interest me, let alone the ones that don't.


I don't think I've ever chosen a book based on title alone. I DO finish every book I start, and I've read quite a few I disagreed with vehemently or just flat out didn't like, because even if I hate it, I might learn something new.
 
2021-07-02 12:46:53 PM  

Lsherm: Jurodan: Do you pick up every book that has a title that turns you off for context? I don't have time to do that for all the titles that interest me, let alone the ones that don't.

I don't think I've ever chosen a book based on title alone. I DO finish every book I start, and I've read quite a few I disagreed with vehemently or just flat out didn't like, because even if I hate it, I might learn something new.


I have, but that was a cookbook for diabetic desserts. A book's title is a draw, an eye catcher. It can get me to look for more details on the back.

I find your ability to stick with it admirable, though I hope you never forced yourself to slog through some interminable novel like Atlas Shrugged.
 
2021-07-02 1:11:57 PM  

Unsung_Hero: Ask any doctor if there are conditions where they would treat a trans woman differently from a woman.


There's an awful lot of conditions whereby the age of the patient affects the type of treatment; by your logic, old women are no longer women.
 
2021-07-02 1:17:35 PM  

Commander Lysdexic: Unsung_Hero: Ask any doctor if there are conditions where they would treat a trans woman differently from a woman.

There's an awful lot of conditions whereby the age of the patient affects the type of treatment; by your logic, old women are no longer women.


Believe it or not - and you probably won't because you don't want to - even elderly women are different from elderly men.
 
2021-07-02 1:56:21 PM  

CarnySaur: Imaginativescreenname: That said, I do appreciate the boldness in her approach, reminds me a more than a little of Philip K. DIck. I really hope she is able to overcome all of this and eventually return to writing and being her true self.

I was thinking of Harlan Ellison when I read the article.  He was notorious even before the internet, so I wonder what would have happened with his stuff.


If the gopher story really happened, he would have been arrested and canceled. Grabbing Connie Willis's boob at the Hugo Awards would have destroyed his career if it had happened now-and if he were alive.  Asimov and Heinlein would have been Me Too'd for their conduct towards women.
 
2021-07-02 2:17:27 PM  

BorgiaGinz: Asimov and Heinlein would have been Me Too'd for their conduct towards women.


I do wonder what he was really like in person.  By his own writing, he was a dirty-minded old man, but he also painted himself as fairly innocent and passive... He liked looking at boobs, and was obvious enough everybody knew it, but that was it.
 
2021-07-02 2:21:20 PM  
A few weeks ago under the comments of a well-known fact-checking page on social media, I sarcastically joked that the Jan. 6 coup attempt was somehow both an Antifa false flag and also just a bunch of tourists casually checking out the Capitol without hurting anything. And it was in quotation marks, suggesting that I was playing a character of sorts.

I got like 25 replies by the time I looked at it again and half of them were liberals attacking me because they thought I was 100% serious. Half of the ones who knew I was being sarcastic only knew it because they looked at my posting history. That's the tiny scrap of an identity I had here, which is better than this author had. They thought she was being far worse on a far more important issue. I can't imagine being in her shoes.

I once talked on Reddit about how Redditors will assume you're a Trumper and treat you as such if you don't, say, agree that every socialist policy of Norway is perfect for America or someshiat, and someone farking went off on me for feeling that way even though I was only throwing it out there as a hypothetical example of how Redditors will go off on you if you don't agree with them on everything,thus perfectly proving me right.

The Internet knows no nuance, no second looks. You're either on the bleeding edge of Internet Progressivism or you're a mouth-breathing Qanon Trumper who deserves to be harassed to death. Right-wingers of course believe the inverse of that.

I call it "opinion stereotyping." Everyone can easily be shoved into the white box or the black box and the first hint of any opinion they get from you is enough to decide. It's just uglier seeing it from your own side, because you don't expect it from liberals for a couple of reasons. We're supposed to be smarter, kinder, and understand nuance. Nope, on the Internet we can be just as much driven by mob mentality as conservatives.

/One thing that's relatively nice about Fark is that it's mostly the same few hundred users and we can label them
//Not that it never happens here.
 
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