Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(WCJB Gainesville)   Florida does... something right?   (wcjb.com) divider line
    More: Florida, Police, new legislation, end of the day, police officers, Walton County Sheriff Mike Atkinson, first time, excellent first step, latest local news  
•       •       •

5892 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 01 Jul 2021 at 7:41 AM (22 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



48 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-07-01 7:43:29 AM  
I'd read the fine print on this one....
 
2021-07-01 7:45:41 AM  
Maybe the we're trying to do something wrong and did that wrong?

/dnrfa
 
2021-07-01 7:46:26 AM  
Sounds good in theory.
Let's see it in practice.
 
2021-07-01 7:46:28 AM  
That can't be right.

/RTFA

... Huh. Well, if TFA is accurate, it's a definite step in the right direction, but it's really hard to tell without reading the legislation to see if A) It has any teeth and B) if there's a way to have oversight. And as TFA said, it's missing a key ingredient (body camera legislation) that may keep this toothless for a while.

Time will tell.
 
2021-07-01 7:49:12 AM  
Look for the stupid poison pill, since it's Florida.
 
2021-07-01 7:49:28 AM  
How the hell did this not get fought by the crazy gov?
 
2021-07-01 7:51:47 AM  
I'll believe it when the gibbets start raising for the bad cops caught by the new rules.

Words are wind
 
2021-07-01 7:51:49 AM  
Police reform just means they give the cops more funds. Stop being an idiot. You really think DeSantis is going to sign something that in anyway shape or form so much as inconveniences them?
 
2021-07-01 7:52:28 AM  
They seceded from the United States?
 
2021-07-01 7:53:24 AM  

OptimisticCynicism: How the hell did this not get fought by the crazy gov?


Busy trying to sell their slums in the collapsing real estate market?
 
2021-07-01 7:53:26 AM  

Candy Colored Clown: Police reform just means they give the cops more funds. Stop being an idiot. You really think DeSantis is going to sign something that in anyway shape or form so much as inconveniences them?


And I'll add that the only police reform I have seen that has worked has been Newark. If they aren'tgoing to defund or outright abolish them then more cities should be doing what they did.

https://www.ksby.com/national/newsy/w​i​th-no-police-shootings-in-2020-newark-​makes-case-for-consent-decrees
 
2021-07-01 7:57:29 AM  
Fark Libs: DeSuckass must has slipped a poison pill in there mandating the closure of all voting precincts in urban areas.
 
2021-07-01 7:58:17 AM  
Stevie Wonder ~ You Haven't Done Nothin' 1974 Funky Purrfection Version
Youtube 0CmKhxuwtCE
 
2021-07-01 7:58:30 AM  
It's okay subby, those poor police officers still have stand your ground laws to rely upon. All they have to say is that they feel threatened and they are good to keep murdering POC.
 
2021-07-01 7:58:36 AM  

Candy Colored Clown: Candy Colored Clown: Police reform just means they give the cops more funds. Stop being an idiot. You really think DeSantis is going to sign something that in anyway shape or form so much as inconveniences them?

And I'll add that the only police reform I have seen that has worked has been Newark. If they aren'tgoing to defund or outright abolish them then more cities should be doing what they did.

https://www.ksby.com/national/newsy/wi​th-no-police-shootings-in-2020-newark-​makes-case-for-consent-decrees


So the choice is (according to you) do something untested - abolish or completely defund

...or

Try something that worked in Newark?

Because that's an easy choice.
 
2021-07-01 7:59:12 AM  

NathanAllen: Look for the stupid poison pill, since it's Florida.


I didn't read the thread, but Holee-shiat y'all are predictable.
 
2021-07-01 8:08:42 AM  

darth sunshine: I'd read the fine print on this one....


So the text of the bill is online at the Florida senate's web site. At first glance it seems legit.  Anyone with more legal experience know if we should actually (yuck) be saying "Go Florida!"?
 
2021-07-01 8:13:34 AM  

OptimisticCynicism: How the hell did this not get fought by the crazy gov?


Because he might be crazy but he's not stupid
 
2021-07-01 8:20:02 AM  

darth sunshine: I'd read the fine print on this one....


There's going to be a huge spike in the number of officers who find themselves in choke-holds all of a sudden....
 
2021-07-01 8:21:05 AM  
The other thing going on down here is that major metros are responding to 911 calls for mental illness & homelessness with social workers.  The cops are in favor of this; are even driving the change.
 
2021-07-01 8:24:08 AM  
What is infuriating, tho, is the anti-protest laws that DeSantis signed a couple of months ago.

This legislation came as a result of protest -- but the bill was signed by DeSantis after passing thru both chambers with unanimous consent.

So there is unanimous consent that the protesters of 2020 were correct -- but the legislators don't want that to happen again, for some odd reason.
 
2021-07-01 8:25:44 AM  

Nirbo: OptimisticCynicism: How the hell did this not get fought by the crazy gov?

Busy trying to sell their slums in the collapsing real estate market?


I think real estate prices are still a few days away from collapse.

The real estate itself, on the other hand...

/I know, too soon
 
2021-07-01 8:26:11 AM  
> The legislation also bans chokeholds except to save the life of the officer or someone else.

It all sounded OK to me, except for that. All they have to do is say they feared for their lives. That's how they get away with all the people they are shooting now.

That was the biggest piece of crap I saw in there. The rest seemed reasonable, though. Good job.
 
2021-07-01 8:34:14 AM  

ajgeek: That can't be right.

/RTFA

... Huh. Well, if TFA is accurate, it's a definite step in the right direction, but it's really hard to tell without reading the legislation to see if A) It has any teeth and B) if there's a way to have oversight. And as TFA said, it's missing a key ingredient (body camera legislation) that may keep this toothless for a while.

Time will tell.


Bingo.  Based on what I read, it almost seemed like the cops were being required to respect the honour system for reporting bad cops, and recording incidents.

It is definitely a step in the right direction though.
 
2021-07-01 8:35:25 AM  
Under new legislation signed by the Governor, police officers will be better trained to de-escalate situations...

Good.

...agencies will no longer be allowed to investigate use of force incidents in which a firearm was intentionally discharged and someone is hurt or dies...

Huh?

...and police will be required to intervene if they observe a fellow office using extreme force.

Wait, they...they weren't before? I mean, it's the cops, so I guess I shouldn't be surprised...
 
2021-07-01 8:35:37 AM  
The last four words of the bill were printed in white one-point font: "unless it's hot out."
 
2021-07-01 9:02:06 AM  
Since it's Fla. I assume they used the most watered down reforms possible in order to defuse the public pressure to do something more meaningful.

agencies will no longer be allowed to investigate use of force incidents in which a firearm was intentionally discharged and someone is hurt or dies

What the fark does this mean?
 
2021-07-01 9:05:43 AM  

40 degree day: Since it's Fla. I assume they used the most watered down reforms possible in order to defuse the public pressure to do something more meaningful.

agencies will no longer be allowed to investigate use of force incidents in which a firearm was intentionally discharged and someone is hurt or dies

What the fark does this mean?


I think it means no more "we have investigated ourselves and found ourselves free of any wrongdoing"?
 
2021-07-01 9:11:09 AM  

RasIanI: What is infuriating, tho, is the anti-protest laws that DeSantis signed a couple of months ago.

This legislation came as a result of protest -- but the bill was signed by DeSantis after passing thru both chambers with unanimous consent.

So there is unanimous consent that the protesters of 2020 were correct -- but the legislators don't want that to happen again, for some odd reason.


Pretty sure the protesters wanted something a bit more than what is in this bill.  This bill has no defunding of the police, it actually increased funding, no end to qualified immunity, cops can still unionize.
 
2021-07-01 9:31:44 AM  

qorkfiend: OptimisticCynicism: How the hell did this not get fought by the crazy gov?

Because he might be crazy but he's not stupid


No, that can't be it.
 
2021-07-01 9:32:23 AM  

Gleeman: 40 degree day: Since it's Fla. I assume they used the most watered down reforms possible in order to defuse the public pressure to do something more meaningful.

agencies will no longer be allowed to investigate use of force incidents in which a firearm was intentionally discharged and someone is hurt or dies

What the fark does this mean?

I think it means no more "we have investigated ourselves and found ourselves free of any wrongdoing"?


It means the police can no longer investigate themselves. Any investigation would have to be conducted by an independent agency.

/Without body cameras, it still isn't much.
 
2021-07-01 9:55:03 AM  
The legislation also bans chokeholds except to save the life of the officer or someone else.

It's too bad that excessive melanin is toxic to police officers.
 
2021-07-01 10:07:17 AM  
OH NO  Rational iterative change is NOT defunding the police!

This will not do!

ACAB
 
2021-07-01 10:08:22 AM  
Now they get to say they "did something," thus solving the problem once and for all.
 
2021-07-01 10:21:46 AM  
police officers will be better trained to de-escalate situations, agencies will no longer be allowed to investigate use of force incidents in which a firearm was intentionally discharged and someone is hurt or dies and police will be required to intervene if they observe a fellow office using extreme force.

What am I reading wrong about that part?
 
2021-07-01 10:23:27 AM  

austerity101: Now they get to say they "did something," thus solving the problem once and for all.


i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2021-07-01 11:00:04 AM  

ajgeek: That can't be right.

/RTFA

... Huh. Well, if TFA is accurate, it's a definite step in the right direction, but it's really hard to tell without reading the legislation to see if A) It has any teeth and B) if there's a way to have oversight. And as TFA said, it's missing a key ingredient (body camera legislation) that may keep this toothless for a while.

Time will tell.


Some of it sounds good - has the right elements.  However, I'm guessing, it lacks the real teeth to enforce it.
 
2021-07-01 11:00:51 AM  
The legislation also bans the arrest of anyone under seven except for a forcible felony.

I'm definitely interested in this history of kindergarteners getting arrested in Florida.
 
2021-07-01 11:23:40 AM  

40 degree day: Since it's Fla. I assume they used the most watered down reforms possible in order to defuse the public pressure to do something more meaningful.

agencies will no longer be allowed to investigate use of force incidents in which a firearm was intentionally discharged and someone is hurt or dies

What the fark does this mean?


If this is the wording of the actual legislation then it means use of force incidents in which a firearm is discharged and someone dies will no longer be investigated.
I'm hoping this wording is just a sign that the person who wrote the news report shouldn't be allowed to do that anymore. Hopefully the legislation intends to make it so no agency can investigate its own officers anymore after a deadly use of force incident. Hopefully....
 
2021-07-01 11:27:18 AM  

Dbearup: 40 degree day: Since it's Fla. I assume they used the most watered down reforms possible in order to defuse the public pressure to do something more meaningful.

agencies will no longer be allowed to investigate use of force incidents in which a firearm was intentionally discharged and someone is hurt or dies

What the fark does this mean?

If this is the wording of the actual legislation then it means use of force incidents in which a firearm is discharged and someone dies will no longer be investigated.
I'm hoping this wording is just a sign that the person who wrote the news report shouldn't be allowed to do that anymore. Hopefully the legislation intends to make it so no agency can investigate its own officers anymore after a deadly use of force incident. Hopefully....


That jumped out at me too. I want to look at the actual law.
 
2021-07-01 11:33:22 AM  

ArcadianRefugee: police officers will be better trained to de-escalate situations, agencies will no longer be allowed to investigate use of force incidents in which a firearm was intentionally discharged and someone is hurt or dies and police will be required to intervene if they observe a fellow office using extreme force.

What am I reading wrong about that part?


I'm hoping this wording is a misinterpretation of the legislation by the person who wrote the news report. If this is the actual wording of the legislation then it means deadly use of force incidents will no longer be investigated. If the person who wrote the report is an idiot, then hopefully it means such incidents will no longer be investigated directly by the agency involved. Not sure how much good that will do, considering any investigation will still be conducted by police - just not local police....
 
2021-07-01 12:23:15 PM  

dodecahedron: Dbearup: 40 degree day: Since it's Fla. I assume they used the most watered down reforms possible in order to defuse the public pressure to do something more meaningful.

agencies will no longer be allowed to investigate use of force incidents in which a firearm was intentionally discharged and someone is hurt or dies

What the fark does this mean?

If this is the wording of the actual legislation then it means use of force incidents in which a firearm is discharged and someone dies will no longer be investigated.
I'm hoping this wording is just a sign that the person who wrote the news report shouldn't be allowed to do that anymore. Hopefully the legislation intends to make it so no agency can investigate its own officers anymore after a deadly use of force incident. Hopefully....

That jumped out at me too. I want to look at the actual law.


Someone higher up in the comments said it's posted in the senate website so I went looking but couldn't find it. I'll try again later when I have more time....
 
2021-07-01 1:05:10 PM  
 
2021-07-01 2:02:58 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill​/​2021/7051


943.1740 Standards for use of force investigations.-
165 (1) This section shall apply to use of force investigations conducted when a law enforcement officer's use of force results in the death of any person or the intentional discharge of a firearm that results in injury or death to any person.
(2) Each law enforcement agency shall develop and maintain policies regarding use of force investigations concerning a law enforcement officer employed by the agency at the time of the use of force. At a minimum, such policies must incorporate an independent review of the use of force by:
(a) A law enforcement agency that did not employ the law enforcement officer under investigation
at the time of the use of force;
(b) A law enforcement officer who is not employed by the same employing agency as the law enforcement officer under investigation; or
(c) The state attorney of the judicial circuit in which the use of force occurred.
(3) The policies must incorporate a requirement for the reviewing agency or officer to complete an independent report upon completion of the independent review. The independent report shall be submitted to the state attorney of the judicial circuit in which the use of force occurred.
 
2021-07-01 3:04:01 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: https://www.flsenate.gov/Session/Bill​/​2021/7051


Thanks for posting this. I downloaded a PDF of the law, which goes on for 12 pages, (so there's a lot in it.)
The TL:DR version is, the wording in the article above is poor, at best. The new law requires independent investigations of excessive use of force, or any use of force involving an officer discharging a firearm against a suspect.
As for the rest of the law, first it amends a section of an existing law to require applicants for law enforcement jobs (including corrections and probation/parole officers) to disclose previous problems in their law enforcement career, and makes it a 2nd degree misdemeanor to falsify the disclosure form.
Next, it amends another section to require background checks on applicants be documented on a specific form and that those documents be retained.
Then it amends another section to require law enforcement agencies keep employment records for a minimum of 5 years after any employee's employment ends for any reason.
Then it adds a section that defines "chokehold" and "excessive use of force" and establishes training requirements for proportional use of force and when to use other means of resolving problems such as de-escalation techniques. This is also the section that limits the use of chokeholds to times when an officer perceives a life-threatening situation - whether to him- or herself, or someone else - and requires all officers to intervene in the case of a fellow officer's excessive use of force. But this requirement is tempered by the phrase "when such intervention is reasonable based on the totality of the circumstances and the
observing officer may intervene without jeopardizing his or her own health or safety." In other words, officers can still refuse to intervene in another officer's excessive use of force - including chokeholds or shooting a suspect - just by saying it wasn't safe to do so.
The next section is the one requiring excessive use of force investigations not be conducted by the agency whose officers are responsible for the excessive use of force. But history indicates police bodycams are prone to failure at the most...inopportune times. And if there is no video of any given incident, any investigation is going to come down to the officer's word against anyone else's. And when there's no recording of an incident, we all know a LEO's word always carries greater weight than that of a civilian. (At least, all rational people who have been paying attention to the real world know this.) So, the new law effectively changes nothing in regard to use of force investigations.
At any rate, the law goes on to require that officers provide medical assistance when needed and receive training in recognizing substance abuse and mental health disorders and the appropriate response to same, and gives the state 2 years to get the appropriate training requirements added to the curriculum. And it also adds requirements for collecting use-of-force data, and submitting that data to to a national database.
There are 4 more pages on other things only tangentially related to LEO use-of-force, but I don't feel like digging through it right now.
 
2021-07-01 3:26:52 PM  

OptimisticCynicism: How the hell did this not get fought by the crazy gov?


FTFA: The legislation passed both Houses unanimously.

My mind is boggled.
Who held guns to the heads of the republicans?

de-escalation
no choke holds
mandatory intervention for excessive violence
Investigation of cops who pull the trigger or injure someone
a database to track occurrences and identify the "bad apples"
not arresting small children

Wow. Florida is usually full of crazy but this looks good. Let's see how it pans out.
 
2021-07-01 8:49:35 PM  

NotARocketScientist: OptimisticCynicism: How the hell did this not get fought by the crazy gov?

FTFA: The legislation passed both Houses unanimously.

My mind is boggled.
Who held guns to the heads of the republicans?

de-escalation
no choke holds
mandatory intervention for excessive violence
Investigation of cops who pull the trigger or injure someone
a database to track occurrences and identify the "bad apples"
not arresting small children

Wow. Florida is usually full of crazy but this looks good. Let's see how it pans out.


I think it just might be because this is common sense.

Common sense shouldn't be political. It wasn't before. This might be more than a step in the right direction, it might be the return of common sense legislation.
 
2021-07-01 10:20:19 PM  

transporter_ii: > All they have to do is say they feared for their lives.


memegenerator.netView Full Size
 
Displayed 48 of 48 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking




On Twitter


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.