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(Live Science)   Son, aliens can see you   (livescience.com) divider line
    More: Awkward, Planet, nearby star systems, Solar System, Earth, Milky Way, star systems, Sun, Extrasolar planet  
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703 clicks; posted to STEM » on 23 Jun 2021 at 5:01 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



14 Comments     (+0 »)
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2021-06-23 4:33:10 PM  
But, as has often been pointed out, out TV signals have been going out for decades, which should discourage any intelligent race from doing anything except look on in horror
 
2021-06-23 5:07:51 PM  

mjjt: But, as has often been pointed out, out TV signals have been going out for decades, which should discourage any intelligent race from doing anything except look on in horror


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2021-06-23 5:19:13 PM  
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2021-06-23 5:25:48 PM  
Inverse square law looks on disapprovingly.

/Beyond something like 100 light years, our signals sort of disappear into the CMB.
 
2021-06-23 5:38:37 PM  
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Never give up, never surrender!
 
2021-06-23 6:15:39 PM  

Snapper Carr: Inverse square law looks on disapprovingly.

/Beyond something like 100 light years, our signals sort of disappear into the CMB.


It's not the radio signals they're talking about.  They're talking about nearby stars that see the solar system edge on, which means they can see Earth transiting the Sun, in the same way that we use stellar transits to look for exoplanets.

When a planet with an atmosphere transits its star, you can get spectroscopic data for the exact composition of its atmosphere.  Which means if there were any civilizations of comparable technology to our own (or better), around any of these stars, they could easily watch as our atmospheric composition changes due to industrial presence, and having likely been through a similar process themselves could easily infer a technological civilization.  And since we don't necessarily see those systems edge on, we'd never get the spectroscopic data to know they were there.
 
2021-06-23 7:15:20 PM  

mjjt: But, as has often been pointed out, out TV signals have been going out for decades, which should discourage any intelligent race from doing anything except look on in horror


Forget TV and radio, any ETs within ~76 light years probably have noticed the EM signatures of atmospheric nuclear tests and are wondering what in the hell is going on down here.
 
2021-06-23 7:30:20 PM  
How about that? Turns out that the folks closest to you can see you the best.
Wow, great work people!
 
2021-06-23 9:27:40 PM  
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2021-06-24 6:40:45 AM  

Snapper Carr: Inverse square law looks on disapprovingly.

/Beyond something like 100 light years, our signals sort of disappear into the CMB.


Our signals haven't even reached that far yet.
 
2021-06-24 6:43:57 AM  

LrdPhoenix: Snapper Carr: Inverse square law looks on disapprovingly.

/Beyond something like 100 light years, our signals sort of disappear into the CMB.

It's not the radio signals they're talking about.  They're talking about nearby stars that see the solar system edge on, which means they can see Earth transiting the Sun, in the same way that we use stellar transits to look for exoplanets.

When a planet with an atmosphere transits its star, you can get spectroscopic data for the exact composition of its atmosphere.  Which means if there were any civilizations of comparable technology to our own (or better), around any of these stars, they could easily watch as our atmospheric composition changes due to industrial presence, and having likely been through a similar process themselves could easily infer a technological civilization.  And since we don't necessarily see those systems edge on, we'd never get the spectroscopic data to know they were there.


But that merely tells you there is a planet there, what it's size and orbit are, approximately.  It tells you nothing about what is on that planet.

Headline in TFA literally says "watching our civilization grow".
 
2021-06-24 6:51:13 AM  

dittybopper: LrdPhoenix: Snapper Carr: Inverse square law looks on disapprovingly.

/Beyond something like 100 light years, our signals sort of disappear into the CMB.

It's not the radio signals they're talking about.  They're talking about nearby stars that see the solar system edge on, which means they can see Earth transiting the Sun, in the same way that we use stellar transits to look for exoplanets.

When a planet with an atmosphere transits its star, you can get spectroscopic data for the exact composition of its atmosphere.  Which means if there were any civilizations of comparable technology to our own (or better), around any of these stars, they could easily watch as our atmospheric composition changes due to industrial presence, and having likely been through a similar process themselves could easily infer a technological civilization.  And since we don't necessarily see those systems edge on, we'd never get the spectroscopic data to know they were there.

But that merely tells you there is a planet there, what it's size and orbit are, approximately.  It tells you nothing about what is on that planet.

Headline in TFA literally says "watching our civilization grow".

 
2021-06-24 6:55:02 AM  

Jubeebee: mjjt: But, as has often been pointed out, out TV signals have been going out for decades, which should discourage any intelligent race from doing anything except look on in horror

Forget TV and radio, any ETs within ~76 light years probably have noticed the EM signatures of atmospheric nuclear tests and are wondering what in the hell is going on down here.


Doubtful.  It's much easier to detect artificial electromagnetic radiation than it is to even detect an atmosphere, let alone minute contaminants in that atmosphere.
 
2021-06-24 7:04:08 AM  

FrancoFile: dittybopper: LrdPhoenix: Snapper Carr: Inverse square law looks on disapprovingly.

/Beyond something like 100 light years, our signals sort of disappear into the CMB.

It's not the radio signals they're talking about.  They're talking about nearby stars that see the solar system edge on, which means they can see Earth transiting the Sun, in the same way that we use stellar transits to look for exoplanets.

When a planet with an atmosphere transits its star, you can get spectroscopic data for the exact composition of its atmosphere.  Which means if there were any civilizations of comparable technology to our own (or better), around any of these stars, they could easily watch as our atmospheric composition changes due to industrial presence, and having likely been through a similar process themselves could easily infer a technological civilization.  And since we don't necessarily see those systems edge on, we'd never get the spectroscopic data to know they were there.

But that merely tells you there is a planet there, what it's size and orbit are, approximately.  It tells you nothing about what is on that planet.

Headline in TFA literally says "watching our civilization grow".


Yeah, doubtful.

The signal would be exceptionally weak, at the very best, and ambiguous:  there are natural processes that could explain it, for example, increased volcanic activity.  Or perhaps increased wildfires.

Plus, even if it is unambiguously of intelligent origin, it doesn't tell you much about that civilization.  Most, if not all, civilizations out there will be dealing with a sample size of 1 when comparing the hypothetical progress of a detected civilizations: Their own civilization.

That's not enough to say anything other than "OK, we know they do X because we detect Y".

Also, it may well be that other civilizations won't know what our particular kind of pollution means.  If they didn't have a Carboniferous-like era on their planet, they may have never burned  hydrocarbons, and so the pollution will be puzzling to them.
 
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