Skip to content
 
If you can read this, either the style sheet didn't load or you have an older browser that doesn't support style sheets. Try clearing your browser cache and refreshing the page.

(NPR)   Critics OUTRAGED that forthcoming video game shooter, "Six Days In Fallujah," will glorify one of the bloodiest battles of the Iraq war. Because, you know, glorifying other battles from other wars in other games is totes cool   (npr.org) divider line
    More: Stupid, Iraq War, United States Marine Corps, 2003 invasion of Iraq, Second Battle of Fallujah, Peter Tamte's life, generation plays video games, Video game, U.S. Marine Corps  
•       •       •

342 clicks; posted to Fandom » and Main » on 23 Jun 2021 at 3:05 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



38 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-06-23 3:07:59 PM  
Deliberately provocative game provokes controversy deliberately.  Film at eleven.
 
2021-06-23 3:08:09 PM  
Depends. Did they go Spec Ops: The Line with it, or will it be just another spunk gargle wee wee chest thumping 'Murica Fark Yeah style shooter set in a battle where we did more than a few war crimes?
 
2021-06-23 3:12:46 PM  
Is it 2009 again?  Or is it going to be Duke Nukem levels of bad because it's been in development hell for so long?
 
2021-06-23 3:14:26 PM  
Free fire zones. Declaring every male an enemy combatant. Using white phosphorous in a non-illuminating way.

Fallujah didn't even need to be fought. It wasnt a baath stronghold.

This is going to be a mess.
 
2021-06-23 3:17:54 PM  
Outragedcritics.com let's you sign up and and hire people to post to social media about how your or your products is harming society. I used them to protest my wife's planned expansion of our front porch. They were cost effective and the outrage was visceral. I could have done without the "Jew's will not replace us" chant but the tiki torches did give us some nice ideas on how to light the walk way.
 
2021-06-23 3:27:32 PM  
Meh, It's not like you're able to pick up a cat and affix it to the end of a gun barrel to be used as a silencer, like games of yore.
 
2021-06-23 3:30:52 PM  
I feel like the Totino's pizza rolls crossover marketing is a little insensitive.
 
2021-06-23 3:30:55 PM  
sorry where's the outrage? All I saw were a bunch of people saying "maybe nobody cares about your story because "I signed up to kill brown people and all i got was ptsd and blood on my hands" isn't that good a story".
 
2021-06-23 3:34:16 PM  

thehobbes: Free fire zones. Declaring every male an enemy combatant. Using white phosphorous in a non-illuminating way.

Fallujah didn't even need to be fought. It wasnt a baath stronghold.

This is going to be a mess.


CSB
I was 3rd ID there in june-august 2003 after we took BIAP. You're absolutely correct that it wasn't a Baath stronghold. Hell, we had Iraqis selling dog knows what "hamburgers" and ice cold cokes on the compound we were in(we "liberated" an old training compound just outside Fallujah). We loaded up the deuce and a half with me driving to go to BIAP and see Kid Rock(i know i know). Took a wrong turn and ended up downtown. We took fire at one point while i tried to do a 3 point turn without power steering. Nobody returned fire, and nobody was hit. Apparently, from sources, we later learned that whatever enemy was firing on us was taken out by other Iraqis.  It was wild.
 
2021-06-23 3:55:29 PM  
A few months ago a former Marine I Know was saying complaining about this game and how it was too personal cause his unit was in Fallujah.

STORY BREAK
For those of you that don't know being a former Marine from the 2000s and saying you were in Fallujah is a lot like when Vietnam era Marines say they  were in Kha Senh.  What they want you to think of is the big battle that defined that area but what they mean is I was stationed there a year before or after that battle or drove through it once and stayed a night or some other thing.  So whenever I hear a Marine mention Fallujah or Kha Senh there are always some follow up questions to figure out what they actually mean.

BREAK OVER

I reply I guess I can undersrand that but its not any different than the vietnam era or WW2 games just a little sooner I guess. And then I ask him when he was there in Fallujah and he says " oh, um I wasn't there but my unit was, I had got out in 2001 but if I had stayed in I would of stayed with that unit and I would of been there too"
 
2021-06-23 4:20:49 PM  

Dr gLove: thehobbes: Free fire zones. Declaring every male an enemy combatant. Using white phosphorous in a non-illuminating way.

Fallujah didn't even need to be fought. It wasnt a baath stronghold.

This is going to be a mess.

CSB
I was 3rd ID there in june-august 2003 after we took BIAP. You're absolutely correct that it wasn't a Baath stronghold. Hell, we had Iraqis selling dog knows what "hamburgers" and ice cold cokes on the compound we were in(we "liberated" an old training compound just outside Fallujah). We loaded up the deuce and a half with me driving to go to BIAP and see Kid Rock(i know i know). Took a wrong turn and ended up downtown. We took fire at one point while i tried to do a 3 point turn without power steering. Nobody returned fire, and nobody was hit. Apparently, from sources, we later learned that whatever enemy was firing on us was taken out by other Iraqis.  It was wild.


Please pardon my  ignorance, but what is BIAP?
 
2021-06-23 4:41:07 PM  

Drunk Southern Taser Bait: Dr gLove: thehobbes: Free fire zones. Declaring every male an enemy combatant. Using white phosphorous in a non-illuminating way.

Fallujah didn't even need to be fought. It wasnt a baath stronghold.

This is going to be a mess.

CSB
I was 3rd ID there in june-august 2003 after we took BIAP. You're absolutely correct that it wasn't a Baath stronghold. Hell, we had Iraqis selling dog knows what "hamburgers" and ice cold cokes on the compound we were in(we "liberated" an old training compound just outside Fallujah). We loaded up the deuce and a half with me driving to go to BIAP and see Kid Rock(i know i know). Took a wrong turn and ended up downtown. We took fire at one point while i tried to do a 3 point turn without power steering. Nobody returned fire, and nobody was hit. Apparently, from sources, we later learned that whatever enemy was firing on us was taken out by other Iraqis.  It was wild.

Please pardon my  ignorance, but what is BIAP?


Baghdad International Air Port. It was Saddam International when we first got there, but the signage was taken down after a couple of weeks of being there.
 
2021-06-23 4:41:19 PM  
I was going to go-that sounds old, I know I've heard of this before.  Looks like it was going to be released in 2009 but Konami got cold feet and canned the game at the last moment.

/I tend to go with goofy, completely non-realistic FPSes like the Borderlands series and Team Fortress 2
 
2021-06-23 4:51:07 PM  

replacementcool: sorry where's the outrage? All I saw were a bunch of people saying "maybe nobody cares about your story because "I signed up to kill brown people and all i got was ptsd and blood on my hands" isn't that good a story".


The developer had been trying, and failing to stir up controversy for months.  Nobody took the bait.
 
2021-06-23 4:51:55 PM  

Dr gLove: Drunk Southern Taser Bait: Dr gLove: thehobbes: Free fire zones. Declaring every male an enemy combatant. Using white phosphorous in a non-illuminating way.

Fallujah didn't even need to be fought. It wasnt a baath stronghold.

This is going to be a mess.

CSB
I was 3rd ID there in june-august 2003 after we took BIAP. You're absolutely correct that it wasn't a Baath stronghold. Hell, we had Iraqis selling dog knows what "hamburgers" and ice cold cokes on the compound we were in(we "liberated" an old training compound just outside Fallujah). We loaded up the deuce and a half with me driving to go to BIAP and see Kid Rock(i know i know). Took a wrong turn and ended up downtown. We took fire at one point while i tried to do a 3 point turn without power steering. Nobody returned fire, and nobody was hit. Apparently, from sources, we later learned that whatever enemy was firing on us was taken out by other Iraqis.  It was wild.

Please pardon my  ignorance, but what is BIAP?

Baghdad International Air Port. It was Saddam International when we first got there, but the signage was taken down after a couple of weeks of being there.


Thank you!
 
2021-06-23 5:00:48 PM  

xalres: Depends. Did they go Spec Ops: The Line with it, or will it be just another spunk gargle wee wee chest thumping 'Murica Fark Yeah style shooter set in a battle where we did more than a few war crimes?


I have not bothered with games like this since the first Call of Duty.

However, if this is a detailed map, with dynamic events and real things that happened and well done in-game hardware?  I would be interested enough to get it.  I do not know what happened there, but I've heard people talk about it as a decisive period of their lives, again and again.

If they did the game with briefings for each mission like they did in the original Tie-Fighter, this could be an incredible learning experience for people who aren't oriented, and that could make it an interesting game for a very large audience.

But I'll assume it's Tifa attacking robots, and there's a score that's limited to midi & 8-bit explosions.
 
2021-06-23 5:58:26 PM  
Could be worse

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-06-23 7:07:08 PM  

thehobbes: Free fire zones. Declaring every male an enemy combatant. Using white phosphorous in a non-illuminating way.

Fallujah didn't even need to be fought. It wasnt a baath stronghold.

This is going to be a mess.


Wait till you find out what the R button does!

It reloads the gun.
 
2021-06-23 7:11:33 PM  
So it's half documentary half game, created with help from soldiers and civilians who were actually there? I just heard this in the car, you play one part as an Iraqi family trying to escape the battle
 
2021-06-23 7:28:08 PM  

Dr gLove: thehobbes: Free fire zones. Declaring every male an enemy combatant. Using white phosphorous in a non-illuminating way.

Fallujah didn't even need to be fought. It wasnt a baath stronghold.

This is going to be a mess.

CSB
I was 3rd ID there in june-august 2003 after we took BIAP. You're absolutely correct that it wasn't a Baath stronghold. Hell, we had Iraqis selling dog knows what "hamburgers" and ice cold cokes on the compound we were in(we "liberated" an old training compound just outside Fallujah). We loaded up the deuce and a half with me driving to go to BIAP and see Kid Rock(i know i know). Took a wrong turn and ended up downtown. We took fire at one point while i tried to do a 3 point turn without power steering. Nobody returned fire, and nobody was hit. Apparently, from sources, we later learned that whatever enemy was firing on us was taken out by other Iraqis.  It was wild.


I believe it. From what i understand, the fallujah police and government stood down when the firsy us forces approached the town. US special forces. They reached an agreement  to stand down.  The iraqis would maintain order and the US would let the citizens of fallujah go about their normal lives.

The big thing was keeping utilities and the schools active.

SF pretty much guaranteed they'd stay out of the city  and  i think initial plans were to FOB outside the city.

Then big army showed up and didn't want to honor the agreement. They then took over the schools and municipal buildings disrupting iraqi life.

Then contractors started their rat farkery and Rumsfeld and Cheney didn't like the city not capitulating fully.

Contractors got merced. National outrage from the video. USMC told to siege the city.

And the provincial governor (American appointee) with no history in the area told the US that anyone still inside the city was an enemy combatant as everyone was told to evacuate.*

This was from a book written by a ranger about the history of the SEALs in Fallujah, before Chris Kyle became famous.

It was dickwagging by the US.
 
2021-06-23 7:39:10 PM  

xalres: Depends. Did they go Spec Ops: The Line with it, or will it be just another spunk gargle wee wee chest thumping 'Murica Fark Yeah style shooter set in a battle where we did more than a few war crimes?


It's the second one.

The reason anyone even gives a shiat is:

(1) The developer was directly asked about, y'know, literally the only important thing that the battle is famous for, which was the extreme-even-by-US-standards amount of war crimes committed by US troops during it, including the specific war crime that Spec Ops: The Line referenced (somewhat obliquely) during the twist that makes it so well-regarded.  This being both the only thing the battle is famous for and something referenced in one of the most famous video game plots ever, they really should have been prepared to be asked the question.

(2) The company was really, really not prepared to be asked the obvious softball question.  Like... "Custer wasn't prepared for the battle of Little Bighorn" levels of not prepared for it.  It started at the extremely offensive level of "we're whitewashing it because this game about the most politically-charged battle of an entirely political war with no non-political elements isn't going to be political" and somehow got worse from there.

(3) Over the course of several weeks, the dev team just kept pouring more petrol over their own heads over this and then playing with more and more matches, turning the most softball farking obvious question that should have been them being teed up to talk about how interesting their game was gonna be into a completely voluntary, entirely unprovoked self-immolation.  It was, frankly, farking amazing.

(4) Also at least one of the developers is basically Tommy Wiseau, and is under the impression that his entirely unoriginal borderline asset-flip brown shooter with no real hook is actually a heartbreaking work of staggering genius that simulates the real battle more perfectly and with better resolution than taking a time machine to the event itself, while also summoning a choir of angels that will suck your dick while curing your cancer.  He flies into astonishingly stupid and un-self-aware rages over even the most trivial perceived, usually unintended insults, and it's much, much more entertaining than the game itself could ever possibly be.

So basically people are watching the reviews on the off chance that, since it's basically made by the spiritual twins of the people who made The Room, it might be the video game equivalent of that movie... and because the idiot's reaction to whatever the reviews say has a good chance of being hilarious.

... no one cares about the actual game, still.  If his team has gotten the one guy under control and he doesn't flip out in some way it'll likely fade out of everyone's consciousness basically instantly.
 
2021-06-23 7:47:04 PM  
I hope everyone remembers how well that game "Hatred" did by deliberately provoking controversy.
 
2021-06-23 8:05:25 PM  

thehobbes: Free fire zones. Declaring every male an enemy combatant. Using white phosphorous in a non-illuminating way.

Fallujah didn't even need to be fought. It wasnt a baath stronghold.

This is going to be a mess.


I don't know where you got the idea that WP can only be used for illumination. And a "Baath stronghold?" Of course not. What year do you think it took place in? The Baath party was a distant memory by then, and that wasn't the objective.
 
2021-06-23 8:43:14 PM  

skyotter: I hope everyone remembers how well that game "Hatred" did by deliberately provoking controversy.


external-content.duckduckgo.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-23 10:11:38 PM  

Munden: skyotter: I hope everyone remembers how well that game "Hatred" did by deliberately provoking controversy.

[external-content.duckduckgo.com image 850x478]


Why'd you talk about Hatred, and post a Postal 2 image?
 
2021-06-23 10:38:05 PM  

thehobbes: Dr gLove: thehobbes: Free fire zones. Declaring every male an enemy combatant. Using white phosphorous in a non-illuminating way.

Fallujah didn't even need to be fought. It wasnt a baath stronghold.

This is going to be a mess.

CSB
I was 3rd ID there in june-august 2003 after we took BIAP. You're absolutely correct that it wasn't a Baath stronghold. Hell, we had Iraqis selling dog knows what "hamburgers" and ice cold cokes on the compound we were in(we "liberated" an old training compound just outside Fallujah). We loaded up the deuce and a half with me driving to go to BIAP and see Kid Rock(i know i know). Took a wrong turn and ended up downtown. We took fire at one point while i tried to do a 3 point turn without power steering. Nobody returned fire, and nobody was hit. Apparently, from sources, we later learned that whatever enemy was firing on us was taken out by other Iraqis.  It was wild.

I believe it. From what i understand, the fallujah police and government stood down when the firsy us forces approached the town. US special forces. They reached an agreement  to stand down.  The iraqis would maintain order and the US would let the citizens of fallujah go about their normal lives.

The big thing was keeping utilities and the schools active.

SF pretty much guaranteed they'd stay out of the city  and  i think initial plans were to FOB outside the city.

Then big army showed up and didn't want to honor the agreement. They then took over the schools and municipal buildings disrupting iraqi life.

Then contractors started their rat farkery and Rumsfeld and Cheney didn't like the city not capitulating fully.

Contractors got merced. National outrage from the video. USMC told to siege the city.

And the provincial governor (American appointee) with no history in the area told the US that anyone still inside the city was an enemy combatant as everyone was told to evacuate.*

This was from a book written by a ranger about the history of the SEALs in Fallujah, before Chris Kyle became famous.

It was dickwagging by the US.


I can gather from your post that you were either there, or you read every book ever made about the 2003 Iraq invasion. I've had you farkied as "operator" since I first saw you post(boobies?). I've always enjoyed your knowledge on the subject at hand. Thanks for being consistent. Roger, out.
 
2021-06-24 2:29:45 AM  

snoopy2zero: For those of you that don't know being a former Marine from the 2000s and saying you were in Fallujah is a lot like when Vietnam era Marines say they were in Kha Senh. What they want you to think of is the big battle that defined that area but what they mean is I was stationed there a year before or after that battle or drove through it once and stayed a night or some other thing. So whenever I hear a Marine mention Fallujah or Kha Senh there are always some follow up questions to figure out what they actually mean.


I had a brother at Khe Sanh, fighting off the Viet Cong. They're still there, he's all gone.
 
2021-06-24 5:27:14 AM  
Critics are always outraged.  That's their job these days - to troll around the internet for game news and then rant their outrage about whatever it is companies are doing.  What they're doing doesn't matter - the outrage must flow.

Which is why the gaming consumer gives about as much attention to game critics as does the people over at Rotten Tomatoes (which is another fine example where critics are completely out of touch with the masses).
 
2021-06-24 5:33:49 AM  
Not an expert or first hand witness.  (You can stop reading here if you prefer).
Also, I got out of the military almost exactly a decade before; I tried to keep track of some things, however, my memory is not the best. (Or, you can stop reading here).

What I do remember:  someone forwarded a '60 Minutes' type video of the aftermath of Fallujah from Italian TV network RAI4.  The video had a couple disaffected US personnel who gave brutal, semi unsubstantiated statements, and showed the crew trying to ask questions of the top brass..  Short version:  it was formatted to be a sensationalist smear video.

Doesn't mean they were lying.

The video showed the bodies of mostly women and children lying on the ground:  their bodies melted like candles, their clothes with dozens of pin holes like they'd been attacked by a plague of moths.

This is what happens when you drop white phosphorous/(Willy Pete) on people.

When the Commanding officer - who was on site - was asked by the crew: the bodies still on the ground in every direction for several blocks - he looked the interviewer in the eye and stated that he had no intelligence in regard to civilians killed by WP.

Looked them in the eye.

Most countries - decades ago - signed international agreements not to drop WP on civilian populations, the US never got around to it.

/Not the only time and place bad things happened over there; my heart goes out to the Vets who have had to live with what happened and the families of those who ate a gun because they couldn't. shiat like this is NOT on them.
 
2021-06-24 7:58:22 AM  
Oh boy another boring war game with no monsters or magic....
 
2021-06-24 8:40:51 AM  

aungen: xalres: Depends. Did they go Spec Ops: The Line with it, or will it be just another spunk gargle wee wee chest thumping 'Murica Fark Yeah style shooter set in a battle where we did more than a few war crimes?

I have not bothered with games like this since the first Call of Duty.

However, if this is a detailed map, with dynamic events and real things that happened and well done in-game hardware?  I would be interested enough to get it.  I do not know what happened there, but I've heard people talk about it as a decisive period of their lives, again and again.

If they did the game with briefings for each mission like they did in the original Tie-Fighter, this could be an incredible learning experience for people who aren't oriented, and that could make it an interesting game for a very large audience.

But I'll assume it's Tifa attacking robots, and there's a score that's limited to midi & 8-bit explosions.


If you want Tifa attacking robots, play Final Fantasy VII.
 
2021-06-24 8:41:56 AM  

AliceBToklasLives: Could be worse

[Fark user image image 399x750]


I'd play that game.

\it could be made by the guy who did Papers Please
 
2021-06-24 8:46:26 AM  

NephilimNexus: Critics are always outraged.  That's their job these days - to troll around the internet for game news and then rant their outrage about whatever it is companies are doing.  What they're doing doesn't matter - the outrage must flow.

Which is why the gaming consumer gives about as much attention to game critics as does the people over at Rotten Tomatoes (which is another fine example where critics are completely out of touch with the masses).


The masses are idiots when it comes to entertainment. It's like saying steak must be crap, because McDonalds is so popular.
 
2021-06-24 8:51:49 AM  

luddite v2.0: So it's half documentary half game, created with help from soldiers and civilians who were actually there? I just heard this in the car, you play one part as an Iraqi family trying to escape the battle


That actually DOES interest me.  A lot.
 
2021-06-24 1:41:41 PM  
What was the city that basically everyone but jihadists evacuated?  I thought it was Fallujah.

Oh it was the second battle of fallujah. 800 civilians dead for 1500 jihadists dead. Not great.
 
2021-06-24 3:03:23 PM  

thehobbes: Free fire zones. Declaring every male an enemy combatant. Using white phosphorous in a non-illuminating way.

Fallujah didn't even need to be fought. It wasnt a baath stronghold.

This is going to be a mess.


WP is not used for illumination.  The M825 artillery projectile is a smoke producing round.  It contains 116 3/4" white phosphorous impregnated felt wedges.  It is designed to function approximately 280 meters above the ground this can vary since it uses either a MTSQ (mechanical time super quick) or Electronic Time fuze.  An error in calculations perform by the Fire Direction Center, the Forward Observer, or on the Gunline could cause this to vary.  The M825 was not designed to be a casualty producing munition, but I definitely not saying it would not produce casualties if it were to land on people, buildings, or equipment.  The old M110 WP was designed that way.  It was primarily used to mark targets for aircraft, but would be very effective against bunkers when combined with a Point Detonating fuze set on delay (fuze would function .05 seconds after contact).  M110 has been out of production for a long time.  If stored improperly, the projectile would be out of balance after coming out of the barrel and would have an erratic flight path.

The M485A2 is an illumination projectile.  This is a base ejection munition that has a magnesium flare attached to a parachute.  It is also not designed to be a casualty producing munition and it would be very difficult to achieve that.  The only real danger would be getting hit by the empty canister or a munition that had a defective fuze and the whole thing landed on you.  The M485A2 has a 600 meter height of burst and the flare will burn for 90 seconds.  It can also be used for marking targets for aircraft.  Fire Direction Center just does a down 600 correction.

The videos of WP being used in Iraq are definitely M825s.  You can tell by pretty uniform dispersal pattern of the felt wedges coming out of the projectile.  The M110 with a time fuze does not look like that when it functions.  Whether WP was used on purposely on people (civilians or combatants), I do not know.  Some of the videos I've seen supposedly showing victims of WP, the burns do not look right in others they do.

/former artillery (Fire Direction)
//haven't done this stuff for over 16 years, my memory on projectiles may be a bit off
///3 slashies in effect, over.
 
2021-06-24 11:56:32 PM  

thehobbes: Free fire zones. Declaring every male an enemy combatant. Using white phosphorous in a non-illuminating way.

Fallujah didn't even need to be fought. It wasnt a baath stronghold.

This is going to be a mess.


The first battle did. The second battle followed a long list of disappointments and terrible strategic choices. The US may not have been forced into the assault if more care had been taken in the handover, and peacekeeping had been an objective instead of simply maintaining force superiority.
 
2021-06-25 2:59:04 AM  

His Majesty Lord Tyrone Slothrop the 3rd: The masses are idiots when it comes to entertainment. It's like saying steak must be crap, because McDonalds is so popular.



encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size
 
Displayed 38 of 38 comments

View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest

This thread is closed to new comments.

Continue Farking




On Twitter


  1. Links are submitted by members of the Fark community.

  2. When community members submit a link, they also write a custom headline for the story.

  3. Other Farkers comment on the links. This is the number of comments. Click here to read them.

  4. Click here to submit a link.