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(Motor 1)   California Highway Patrol relents, acknowledges obsolete noise measurement test method, will allow Porsche 911 GT3 buyers to purchase and register manual transmission cars in the state   (motor1.com) divider line
    More: Amusing, Manual transmission, Transmission, California government, California, California Highway Patrol, Semi-automatic transmission, possible California officials, Porsche Cars North America  
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615 clicks; posted to Business » on 23 Jun 2021 at 3:44 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-06-23 3:50:11 PM  
Are stock GT3 really loud?  They can't be louder than the bunch of American muscle cars and big pick-up trucks that most likely have aftermarket exhaust systems that are super loud.  I hear one of those about once an hour where I live. They are so farking annoying.
 
2021-06-23 4:01:49 PM  
FINALLY
 
2021-06-23 4:18:01 PM  

hugram: Are stock GT3 really loud?  They can't be louder than the bunch of American muscle cars and big pick-up trucks that most likely have aftermarket exhaust systems that are super loud.  I hear one of those about once an hour where I live. They are so farking annoying.


There's a much better explanation of the problem with the old vs new regulation here; the GT3 passes the new test.  Quoting: "To summarize, the SAE test for automatics allows for the vehicle to be run at a particular speed in top gear, whereas this nearly 30-year-old SAE J1470 reg says that manuals have to be in fourth or fifth gear at that particular speed, making them too loud for the regulation."
 
2021-06-23 4:31:51 PM  

Lish: hugram: Are stock GT3 really loud?  They can't be louder than the bunch of American muscle cars and big pick-up trucks that most likely have aftermarket exhaust systems that are super loud.  I hear one of those about once an hour where I live. They are so farking annoying.

There's a much better explanation of the problem with the old vs new regulation here; the GT3 passes the new test.  Quoting: "To summarize, the SAE test for automatics allows for the vehicle to be run at a particular speed in top gear, whereas this nearly 30-year-old SAE J1470 reg says that manuals have to be in fourth or fifth gear at that particular speed, making them too loud for the regulation."


That is, the language from 1992 didn't expect manual cars to have more than five gears.
 
2021-06-23 5:18:09 PM  

hugram: They can't be louder than the bunch of American muscle cars and big pick-up trucks that most likely have aftermarket exhaust systems that are super loud.  I hear one of those about once an hour where I live. They are so farking annoying.


And about half the motorcycles on the road.
 
2021-06-23 5:39:34 PM  
This is new?  A friend had to buy his 5-spd Mustang in Nevada and then transfer the registration to CA ... back in the 1980s.

"Why does it top out at 125 in 5th, when I can do 140 mph in 4th?"
 
2021-06-23 6:24:42 PM  

natazha: "Why does it top out at 125 in 5th, when I can do 140 mph in 4th?"


This is standard for most cars. Overdrive (the top gear, or top two gears in some transmissions) means the engine does not produce enough power to overcome drag. For your friend's Five-point-slow Mustwang, 125 mph is hitting the wall of wind resistance and the engine doesn't make enough power to overcome it in 5th gear.
 
2021-06-23 6:27:24 PM  

hugram: Are stock GT3 really loud?  They can't be louder than the bunch of American muscle cars and big pick-up trucks that most likely have aftermarket exhaust systems that are super loud.  I hear one of those about once an hour where I live. They are so farking annoying.


https://www.roadandtrack.com/news/a36​7​41701/porsche-911-gt3-manual-fails-cal​ifornias-noise-test/

The California Code of Regulations specifies that highway vehicles must pass a drive-by noise test designed by the Society of Automotive Engineers-specifically, SAE J1470, "Measurement of Noise Emitted by Accelerating Highway Vehicles." This SAE paper goes into extreme detail explaining the design and layout of the ideal testing environment, the proper arrangement of the measuring equipment, the exact condition of the vehicle to be tested, and on and on. But basically, the test boils down to this: A vehicle accelerates past a microphone, and the sound pressure level, in decibels, is recorded.

SAE J1470 aims to measure "the highest noise level consistent with urban driving." The exact testing method varies based on vehicle size, power output, peak acceleration rate, and gearing, but generally, it involves a full-throttle run starting at 50 km/h (31 mph) and continuing until the engine reaches its peak-power rpm. Manual-transmission vehicles are tested in either second or third gear; given the GT3's curb weight and power output, the procedure calls for third.

Here's the thing: Automatic-transmission vehicles aren't necessarily tested at wide-open throttle. The method specified in J1470 states that "the throttle shall, as rapidly as possible, be opened as fully as will ensure maximum acceleration without operating kickdown" (emphasis added), and held at that position until the car reaches the end of the testing area. "Kickdown," as defined by the SAE, means "a forced downshift to the lowest possible gear (first or low gear)."

You see the problem here. The PDK-equipped GT3 can do nearly 80 km/h in first. Certainly, flooring the accelerator in an automatic GT3 would trigger a multi-gear downshift all the way to first. So while the procedure calls for the manual GT3 to run full-throttle nearly to redline in third, the same procedure prohibits full-throttle acceleration in the automatic version of the very same car. Hence, the PDK passes the test, while the manual fails.


For the muscle cars (Dodge Challengers and Chargers), they run the test in whatever gear and as light application of the accelerator pedal to avoid a kickdown to a lower gear. The cars basically idle past the microphone that way.

I don't know about the Challengers with manual transmissions, though. They must be just quiet enough to pass the test.
 
2021-06-23 6:29:24 PM  

CruiserTwelve: hugram: They can't be louder than the bunch of American muscle cars and big pick-up trucks that most likely have aftermarket exhaust systems that are super loud.  I hear one of those about once an hour where I live. They are so farking annoying.

And about half the motorcycles on the road.


Harley-Davidson has difficulty with their air-cooled engines passing noise regulations. It's why the cams in some engines are driven by chains instead of gears. The chains frequently fail (stretch, or break) and one of the first things most HD owners do is change the cams over to gear drive at a major maintenance interval.

And one of the first things most HD owners do is immediately get an aftermarket exhaust system that is far louder than the stock exhaust.
 
2021-06-23 10:04:21 PM  

hugram: Are stock GT3 really loud?  They can't be louder than the bunch of American muscle cars and big pick-up trucks that most likely have aftermarket exhaust systems that are super loud.  I hear one of those about once an hour where I live. They are so farking annoying.


To answer your question (outdated regulations/test methods aside): yes, they are very loud. Stopped at a light behind one once, and when it took off all I could think was "holy shiat that thing is loud!".
 
2021-06-24 2:06:49 AM  

natazha: This is new?  A friend had to buy his 5-spd Mustang in Nevada and then transfer the registration to CA ... back in the 1980s.

"Why does it top out at 125 in 5th, when I can do 140 mph in 4th?"


There was a problem back in the 80s with the manual Corvette. When you backed off to shift it failed the smog specs. I don't know if one could buy one out of state because it was a smog deal, not noise.
 
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