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(Fox 43 Pennsylvania)   Having Bert and Ernie wasn't enough?   (fox43.com) divider line
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2396 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 19 Jun 2021 at 5:50 AM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-06-19 1:13:45 AM  
Bert and Ernie aren't gay, they're odd.
 
jbc [TotalFark]
2021-06-19 5:21:34 AM  
i.imgflip.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-19 6:05:31 AM  
Huh. I could have sworn I read the already introduced Mia's two dads.
 
2021-06-19 6:24:46 AM  

Sgygus: Bert and Ernie aren't gay, they're odd.


No I'm pretty sure there's two of them
 
2021-06-19 6:28:26 AM  
Oh please name them Tucker and Sean.
 
2021-06-19 6:29:07 AM  
Subby sounds triggered.
 
2021-06-19 6:32:45 AM  
I spent 5 years on the show making Bert and Ernnie's apartment as gay as possible.

B&E are really gay. The Herb Ritts photos on the wall should have told you.
 
2021-06-19 6:38:39 AM  

mmojo: I spent 5 years on the show making Bert and Ernnie's apartment as gay as possible.

B&E are really gay. The Herb Ritts photos on the wall should have told you.


Thank you for your service
 
2021-06-19 6:57:33 AM  
Ernie and Bert go BRUTAL
Youtube 0-0q2pHTS_A
 
2021-06-19 7:22:38 AM  
Done in a good way.
 
2021-06-19 7:25:20 AM  
i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-19 7:26:14 AM  
i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-19 7:26:33 AM  
i.chzbgr.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-19 8:09:03 AM  
The more the word synonymous with merrier.
 
2021-06-19 8:59:00 AM  
I think the clincher for me is they had a friend stay over in one episode. In the spare bedroom.

Their house has two bedrooms. They both sleep in the same bedroom.

No "housemates" in human or muppet history has done that.
 
2021-06-19 9:19:11 AM  
i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-19 9:23:22 AM  

UncleDirtNap: Oh please name them Tucker and Sean.


And introduce their neighbor, Ladybug Lindsay.
 
2021-06-19 9:27:03 AM  
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2021-06-19 10:15:57 AM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: [Fark user image image 496x517]


*spits coffee*
 
2021-06-19 10:17:24 AM  
queerty-prodweb.s3.amazonaws.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-19 10:17:56 AM  
i.pinimg.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-19 10:22:14 AM  
Bert and Ernie are the least of our worries. Luckily, the GOP has added their own particular spin to some of the existing characters, to counter this clearly liberal-driven LGBTQ agenda... y'know, to keep Sesame Street "fair and balanced."

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-06-19 10:22:39 AM  
I hear Matt Gaetz is courting Gaby at this point.
 
2021-06-19 10:39:05 AM  
sheesh subby i hope they dedicate that episode to you.
 
2021-06-19 11:04:43 AM  
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2021-06-19 11:15:22 AM  

Sgygus: Bert and Ernie aren't gay, they're odd.


I always thought they were brothers, honestly.
 
2021-06-19 11:28:50 AM  

SirDigbyChickenCaesar: [Fark user image 496x517]


Damn it! At least I wasn't the only one that recognized Sesame Street has been into fisting for decades.
 
2021-06-19 11:32:16 AM  
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2021-06-19 12:03:36 PM  
Q: Having Bert and Ernie wasn't enough?

A: That's the real problem, they never were in the first place, so i foudn it lame to just handwavium them into a homosexual relationship, instead of having a homosexual character be a real equal, their own original character added to the cast.

And then to double down on the lame, this removes what bert and ernie REALLY represented on that show. Too poor, adults that just have to be room mates, because they can't afford otherwise.

That act to my eye, was both lamely uncreative and a gentrification of Sesame Street.
there is room and need for representation of too poor to live alone roommates (that get along well enough but could obviously be happy not having to share the same space), and those not typical in the middle of the bell.

This move to me felt very 2d stereo typing POV, as duh of course the two dudes that live together are gay, just confirm it for the masses and do what exactly what stereo typing has assumed this whole time.
I mean did they imagine that was a "woke" thing to do, to give representation by adhering to stereo typing?


So yeah i hope this move will bring in an actually new character or two to represent more of our human bell curve, without having to pander to the middle bell stereo typing to do so.
 
2021-06-19 12:09:12 PM  

Bungles: I think the clincher for me is they had a friend stay over in one episode. In the spare bedroom.

Their house has two bedrooms. They both sleep in the same bedroom.

No "housemates" in human or muppet history has done that.


Yeah. That's solid
 
2021-06-19 12:47:16 PM  

PvtStash: I mean did they imagine that was a "woke" thing to do, to give representation by adhering to stereo typing?


i.imgur.comView Full Size

What "stereo typing" may look like.

BTW, it's 1 word.
;^)
 
2021-06-19 1:06:16 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-06-19 1:11:29 PM  

Bungles: I think the clincher for me is they had a friend stay over in one episode. In the spare bedroom.

Their house has two bedrooms. They both sleep in the same bedroom.

No "housemates" in human or muppet history has done that.


Technically they both sleep in the living room.
 
2021-06-19 1:22:08 PM  

bluorangefyre: I always thought they were brothers, honestly.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-06-19 1:32:47 PM  
With the exception of Guy Smiley and the mustached restaurant customer that Grover's always driving insane, I always thought the Sesame Street Muppets were meant to be childlike, despite having jobs and owning apartments. They don't have any sexual interests because they haven't reached that stage of development yet. The only post-pubescent one is Kermit, and he's really a guest star from a different property.

Now the Muppet Show, those characters represented every orientation in the list plus a few bonus ones only a Muppet could have. Even Rule 34 would probably blush at some of the photos in Gonzo's private files.
 
2021-06-19 1:41:33 PM  

mmojo: I spent 5 years on the show making Bert and Ernnie's apartment as gay as possible.

B&E are really gay. The Herb Ritts photos on the wall should have told you.


Growing up with it as a kid, I gotta admit I never even thought about it.  Bert and Ernie were just a couple dudes on the show.  ('Cause when you were a kid watching that - they weren't puppets, they were people.)  Later on the penny dropped, and my attitude hadn't changed.  There were just a couple dudes on the show.  It didn't matter.  And, speaking as a straight dude here so whatever, but to me that seems like how it should be.  Not stereotypes, good or bad, not the entire focus of the character so they have no identity beyond, "Oh they're the gay person."  Just some people in the show - like all the other people.

/doesn't mean "Make shows without any sort of relationship stuff so you can pretend it doesn't exist" mind you
//just not. "Well you're the gay character so you get to have HIV scares, have tons of kooky significant other drama, have to be the sympathetic friend, wear the outre' outfits" etc.
///is "just people" really that hard?  I know yeah yeah "Apparently so," but... <jackiechanpullinghair.jpg>
 
2021-06-19 1:41:41 PM  

EdgeRunner: With the exception of Guy Smiley and the mustached restaurant customer that Grover's always driving insane, I always thought the Sesame Street Muppets were meant to be childlike, despite having jobs and owning apartments. They don't have any sexual interests because they haven't reached that stage of development yet. The only post-pubescent one is Kermit, and he's really a guest star from a different property.

Now the Muppet Show, those characters represented every orientation in the list plus a few bonus ones only a Muppet could have. Even Rule 34 would probably blush at some of the photos in Gonzo's private files.


Oscar the Grouch has a girlfriend. Elmo has a girlfriend. There are several heterosexual muppet relationships.

I don't think you're supposed to be imagining them bumping felt-on-felt, but they're there.
 
2021-06-19 1:46:52 PM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: mmojo: I spent 5 years on the show making Bert and Ernnie's apartment as gay as possible.

B&E are really gay. The Herb Ritts photos on the wall should have told you.

Growing up with it as a kid, I gotta admit I never even thought about it.  Bert and Ernie were just a couple dudes on the show.  ('Cause when you were a kid watching that - they weren't puppets, they were people.)  Later on the penny dropped, and my attitude hadn't changed.  There were just a couple dudes on the show.  It didn't matter.  And, speaking as a straight dude here so whatever, but to me that seems like how it should be.  Not stereotypes, good or bad, not the entire focus of the character so they have no identity beyond, "Oh they're the gay person."  Just some people in the show - like all the other people.

/doesn't mean "Make shows without any sort of relationship stuff so you can pretend it doesn't exist" mind you
//just not. "Well you're the gay character so you get to have HIV scares, have tons of kooky significant other drama, have to be the sympathetic friend, wear the outre' outfits" etc.
///is "just people" really that hard?  I know yeah yeah "Apparently so," but... <jackiechanpullinghair.jpg>


I thought they were a take off on Felix and Oscar, but I never really thought about it much beyond that.
 
2021-06-19 1:46:59 PM  
Having a same-sex roommate does not make you gay even if it is long term.
 
2021-06-19 1:57:03 PM  

TheMysteriousStranger: Having a same-sex roommate does not make you gay even if it is long term.


No, it doesn't.  But hang around a couple older gay dudes from that era for a while, and watch Bert and Ernie - it's pretty hard to deny.  Not the dudes that hung out in leather bars, or the loud and proud crowd.  The "just two dudes quietly being them." people.
 
2021-06-19 2:17:31 PM  

Bungles: EdgeRunner: With the exception of Guy Smiley and the mustached restaurant customer that Grover's always driving insane, I always thought the Sesame Street Muppets were meant to be childlike, despite having jobs and owning apartments. They don't have any sexual interests because they haven't reached that stage of development yet. The only post-pubescent one is Kermit, and he's really a guest star from a different property.

Now the Muppet Show, those characters represented every orientation in the list plus a few bonus ones only a Muppet could have. Even Rule 34 would probably blush at some of the photos in Gonzo's private files.

Oscar the Grouch has a girlfriend. Elmo has a girlfriend. There are several heterosexual muppet relationships.

I don't think you're supposed to be imagining them bumping felt-on-felt, but they're there.


Good point, Oscar might qualify as an adult character, or at least a surly teenager. But Elmo is written to be a small child, even compared to the other Sesame Muppets, and at an age where a "girlfriend" would just mean a friend who's a girl. His later interests could be anything. (And as a Muppet, literally anything. If he declared himself a pansexual, you just know his partner would turn out to be a walking, talking frying pan.)

The age difference is presented in how the Muppets interact with the adults on the show. The adults are typically always the knowledgable teachers, explaining basic facts and life lessons on how to get along with others. Even the real children on the show often demonstrate that they're a grade or two ahead of their Muppet friends. And none of the grownups are pulling Grover aside for the big talk about where babies come from, because he's not ready for that yet. It's a preschool show, and while Ernie and Bert are much more erudite than your average 3-5 year old, they're still representatively on that level.

We adults are consumed with sexual thoughts and love to imprint that on everything we watch, but sometimes it's just silly. Trying to assign a sexual identity to Elmo or Big Bird can be a fun discussion, but strictly speaking they'll never have one because they weren't meant to depict that stage of development.
 
2021-06-19 2:24:50 PM  

EdgeRunner: Bungles: EdgeRunner: With the exception of Guy Smiley and the mustached restaurant customer that Grover's always driving insane, I always thought the Sesame Street Muppets were meant to be childlike, despite having jobs and owning apartments. They don't have any sexual interests because they haven't reached that stage of development yet. The only post-pubescent one is Kermit, and he's really a guest star from a different property.

Now the Muppet Show, those characters represented every orientation in the list plus a few bonus ones only a Muppet could have. Even Rule 34 would probably blush at some of the photos in Gonzo's private files.

Oscar the Grouch has a girlfriend. Elmo has a girlfriend. There are several heterosexual muppet relationships.

I don't think you're supposed to be imagining them bumping felt-on-felt, but they're there.

Good point, Oscar might qualify as an adult character, or at least a surly teenager. But Elmo is written to be a small child, even compared to the other Sesame Muppets, and at an age where a "girlfriend" would just mean a friend who's a girl. His later interests could be anything. (And as a Muppet, literally anything. If he declared himself a pansexual, you just know his partner would turn out to be a walking, talking frying pan.)

The age difference is presented in how the Muppets interact with the adults on the show. The adults are typically always the knowledgable teachers, explaining basic facts and life lessons on how to get along with others. Even the real children on the show often demonstrate that they're a grade or two ahead of their Muppet friends. And none of the grownups are pulling Grover aside for the big talk about where babies come from, because he's not ready for that yet. It's a preschool show, and while Ernie and Bert are much more erudite than your average 3-5 year old, they're still representatively on that level.

We adults are consumed with sexual thoughts and love to imprint that on everything we watch, but ...



I think Bert and Ernie class as "older" muppets too though? Bert's possibly the "oldest" classic Sesame Street muppet. Ernie's naïve, but I don't think he's supposed to be child-like in the way Elmo etc are.

More a dumb twink boyfriend.
 
2021-06-19 2:31:55 PM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: The "just two dudes quietly being them." people.


You mean like Cary Grant and Randolph Scott
 
2021-06-19 2:41:18 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-06-19 2:41:57 PM  

Some Junkie Cosmonaut: mmojo: I spent 5 years on the show making Bert and Ernnie's apartment as gay as possible.

B&E are really gay. The Herb Ritts photos on the wall should have told you.

Growing up with it as a kid, I gotta admit I never even thought about it.  Bert and Ernie were just a couple dudes on the show.  ('Cause when you were a kid watching that - they weren't puppets, they were people.)  Later on the penny dropped, and my attitude hadn't changed.  There were just a couple dudes on the show.  It didn't matter.  And, speaking as a straight dude here so whatever, but to me that seems like how it should be.  Not stereotypes, good or bad, not the entire focus of the character so they have no identity beyond, "Oh they're the gay person."  Just some people in the show - like all the other people.

/doesn't mean "Make shows without any sort of relationship stuff so you can pretend it doesn't exist" mind you
//just not. "Well you're the gay character so you get to have HIV scares, have tons of kooky significant other drama, have to be the sympathetic friend, wear the outre' outfits" etc.
///is "just people" really that hard?  I know yeah yeah "Apparently so," but... <jackiechanpullinghair.jpg>


When I watched it as a kid, I thought Bert and Ernie were just two bachelor guys. We were living in Evanston Ill in an old three story house that had been converted to apartments. There was a large Italian family on the first floor, my parents and I on the second and on the top floor there were two single guys. I thought our upstairs neighbors were just two, extremely fit, well dressed swinging bachelors. I didn't think about which way they swang. Years later I asked my dad if they were gay and he said "Yes, as it happens, they were.
 
2021-06-19 2:42:23 PM  

Slow To Return: Some Junkie Cosmonaut: mmojo: I spent 5 years on the show making Bert and Ernnie's apartment as gay as possible.

B&E are really gay. The Herb Ritts photos on the wall should have told you.

Growing up with it as a kid, I gotta admit I never even thought about it.  Bert and Ernie were just a couple dudes on the show.  ('Cause when you were a kid watching that - they weren't puppets, they were people.)  Later on the penny dropped, and my attitude hadn't changed.  There were just a couple dudes on the show.  It didn't matter.  And, speaking as a straight dude here so whatever, but to me that seems like how it should be.  Not stereotypes, good or bad, not the entire focus of the character so they have no identity beyond, "Oh they're the gay person."  Just some people in the show - like all the other people.

/doesn't mean "Make shows without any sort of relationship stuff so you can pretend it doesn't exist" mind you
//just not. "Well you're the gay character so you get to have HIV scares, have tons of kooky significant other drama, have to be the sympathetic friend, wear the outre' outfits" etc.
///is "just people" really that hard?  I know yeah yeah "Apparently so," but... <jackiechanpullinghair.jpg>

I thought they were a take off on Felix and Oscar, but I never really thought about it much beyond that.


One of the things that made that penny drop was meeting and seeing Joe-average rando gay dudes a fair amount as a kid, had family in civil service, and especially at that time, that was a popular career choice for people that were cultural outliers of any sort.  They tended to hire by the letter of official anti-discrimination policies - if not out of ethics then out of, "Bureaucracies gonna bureau - and if you don't some other deskoid is gonna call you out on it just as part of the power game."  You were far less likely to run into, "Nope you're gay piss off" than with most other potential employers.
 
jbc [TotalFark]
2021-06-19 2:48:02 PM  

EdgeRunner: With the exception of Guy Smiley and the mustached restaurant customer that Grover's always driving insane, I always thought the Sesame Street Muppets were meant to be childlike,


If Bert is a child, please explain Bert's nephew, and Bert's role as a caretaker.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-06-19 2:57:02 PM  

Bungles: I think Bert and Ernie class as "older" muppets too though? Bert's possibly the "oldest" classic Sesame Street muppet. Ernie's naïve, but I don't think he's supposed to be child-like in the way Elmo etc are.

More a dumb twink boyfriend.


People just put too much thought into the living arrangements of Bert and Ernie. In the real world they'd have to be old enough to have their own place, but in the context of the show, they're like two kids having an endless sleepover. They're not shown to be any older or more mature than their other Muppet buddies, and the occasional visits from Muppet parents show that the average Sesame character age skews very young to match up with their target audience.

But I haven't watched the show in about 6 or 7 years, so it's possible they've changed up some of the dynamics. I know at least one of the puppeteers had adamantly decided awhile ago that Bert and Ernie were a couple, but that wasn't part of their original conception, nor was the show written to show mature relationships outside of any of the actual adults, and even those relationships are only seen from a child's eye perspective. I think the two new adults are the first true gay couple on Sesame Street, while the Bert and Ernie theory is just a "you can see it there if you want to, but it's not canonically a thing".

Sesame Street has always been progressive and inclusive, so if Bert and Ernie were meant to be a loving couple, I believe it would have been part of their official descriptions by now.
 
2021-06-19 3:05:24 PM  

jbc: If Bert is a child, please explain Bert's nephew, and Bert's role as a caretaker.


There's not a direct correlation between Sesame Street and the real world. But it's not unthinkable for a ten year old to be asked to watch his baby brother (or nephew) for a little while.

Personally when I watched the show as a kid, I always had the impression that Bert and Ernie's parents were nearby taking care of rent and utilities and all that boring grownup stuff. They just never appeared onscreen, like Charlie Brown's parents and all the other adults in the Peanuts world.
 
2021-06-19 3:13:07 PM  
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