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(SFGate)   Unpopular Opinion: If you have to work excessive hours to be successful, you're not very good at what you're doing   (sfgate.com) divider line
    More: Dumbass, Twitter, Young, young people, Youth, best thing, quick Twitter lesson, unpopular opinion, CBS News reporter Grace Segers  
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976 clicks; posted to Business » on 14 Jun 2021 at 11:20 PM (5 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-06-14 7:11:06 PM  
opinion carries presumption of reasonable workload. try harder
 
2021-06-14 7:14:21 PM  
She also spoke of her experience running a startup, working 90-hour weeks and developing pre-diabetes and IBS with all this labor.

Well, that certainly makes it sound appealing.
 
2021-06-14 7:15:31 PM  
I just heard a quote about Henry Ford. He said "If you want to know the most efficient way to do a task, assign the laziest person you know, they will find the way"
 
2021-06-14 7:15:53 PM  
Similar to my opinion that if you have to cheat your workers out of a fair day's pay to make a profit, you're not very good at whatever business you're supposedly engaged in.
 
2021-06-14 7:16:09 PM  
Poplar opinion: Deciduous trees are better than evergreens.
 
2021-06-14 7:17:39 PM  

RodneyToady: Poplar opinion: Deciduous trees are better than evergreens.


Spruce opinion: Deciduous trees are losers.
 
2021-06-14 7:30:57 PM  

sithon: I just heard a quote about Henry Ford. He said "If you want to know the most efficient way to do a task, assign the laziest person you know, they will find the way"


I like the quote, but IRL it seems like the lazy ones never learn the skills to understand the shortcuts. I'd be really careful about elevating a slacker. They'll lean on it and the good ones will resent them, and ultimately the company, and leave.

Experience from a welding shop where a real slacker charmed the boss and "could do no wrong."  In 6 months, the best 3 guys took off and production for the year dropped.
 
2021-06-14 7:32:38 PM  
The Crunch Culture Conundrum
Youtube aS3-iSEwNhs

I just watched this today
It's technically about the gaming industry, but the ideas apply across our society.
 
2021-06-14 7:46:27 PM  
Question : What widget factory mentality was subby trying to describe?

RTA: Rich a hole who doesn't actually have to labor was telling the young they should work weekends for her rich ass convenience.
 
2021-06-14 7:54:34 PM  

dammit just give me a login: sithon: I just heard a quote about Henry Ford. He said "If you want to know the most efficient way to do a task, assign the laziest person you know, they will find the way"

I like the quote, but IRL it seems like the lazy ones never learn the skills to understand the shortcuts. I'd be really careful about elevating a slacker. They'll lean on it and the good ones will resent them, and ultimately the company, and leave.

Experience from a welding shop where a real slacker charmed the boss and "could do no wrong."  In 6 months, the best 3 guys took off and production for the year dropped.


You don't promote the slacker, you watch what they do and implement that shortcut (Assuming it actually does save time/effort without compromising quality/safety too much).
 
2021-06-14 8:03:33 PM  
The boss on the UK version of The Apprentice is Alan Sugar, a self made billionaire. I knew someone who worked for him. At five in the afternoon if you stood in the door you'd get trampled by everyone, literally everyone, leaving the office. No one worked long hours, barring the rare exceptional actual emergency. Their attitude was if you can't get your work done between nine to five then you can't be that good at your job. Working late regularly was seen as a sign of weakness.
 
2021-06-14 8:15:32 PM  
Depends on the job and whether or not your dad owns the dealership.
 
2021-06-14 9:59:51 PM  
My district manager at Circle K, circa 2005:
"Long hours don't impress me"

Also my district manager at Circle K, circa 2005:

"I've adjusted your labor hours for this busy 24 hour location from 320 down to 189.
  Also, all graveyard new hires must be approved by me.
         Also, I'm going on vacation for a month"


/graveyard quit the next night, offc
/Four solo 16 hour shifts in a row
///The fifth and sixth days were a single, nonstop, solo 28 hour shift
////there were no further days
 
2021-06-14 10:12:43 PM  
This is America where we fetishize our work hours. You don't want to be one of those lazy Europeans do you, with all their vacation time, holidays, and time to spend with their families? That's what I thought. We're also going to need you to come in on Saturday....
 
2021-06-14 10:55:54 PM  
No, working 90 hours weeks in your 20s is what's best for the venture capitalist's career.
 
2021-06-14 11:47:42 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-06-14 11:54:09 PM  

moos: opinion carries presumption of reasonable workload. try harder


Not to mention there are some things that aren't terribly humanly accomplishable without working pretty excessive amounts by anyone's estimation.  Doesn't mean people should or shouldn't be doing them necessarily - that's up to them - but there are things that are just not happening in a one person/8 working hours day.
 
2021-06-14 11:59:10 PM  
Well fortunately a lot of kids' second crappy jobs are on the weekend so they're way ahead of this advice.
 
2021-06-15 12:29:16 AM  
Yeah, frequently putting in workweeks that were >45 hours, often >50, being on call, and working weekends didn't help my career one little bit. No recognition, no kudos, no big salaries or raises, nada. Nearly all of the companies I've worked for no longer exist. The person who made that tweet is an absolute moron.
 
2021-06-15 12:29:21 AM  
It sometimes takes us upwards of 72 hours just to get to the job site. I've been on trips where we spent a total of eight days of travel (round trip) for about four hours of official hands-on work, but that four hours enabled another dozen people to do their jobs for the next two years.

/And potentially thousands of sea turtles to have half a chance at life.
 
2021-06-15 12:31:26 AM  
Unpopular opinion: graduating from Berkley only to work at SFGate is not the resume of someone you should be taking career advice from.

Work exactly as much as you feel you need to to have the life you want - no more, no less.
 
2021-06-15 12:47:31 AM  
You can get a better deal if you're holding a thermal detonator.
 
2021-06-15 1:01:01 AM  

sithon: I just heard a quote about Henry Ford. He said "If you want to know the most efficient way to do a task, assign the laziest person you know, they will find the way"


He's wrong. You want the laziest person who will actually do it right. Otherwise they'll fark it up in ways you don't notice till it's too late.
 
2021-06-15 1:17:09 AM  

MrBallou: Similar to my opinion that if you have to cheat your workers out of a fair day's pay to make a profit, you're not very good at whatever business you're supposedly engaged in.


This. If paying your workers a living wage will put you out of business, then you don't deserve to be in business.
 
2021-06-15 1:51:21 AM  

Daer21: sithon: I just heard a quote about Henry Ford. He said "If you want to know the most efficient way to do a task, assign the laziest person you know, they will find the way"

He's wrong. You want the laziest person who will actually do it right. Otherwise they'll fark it up in ways you don't notice till it's too late.


You want smart lazy people, and you should make sure to control their workload and not just pile more shiat on them because they got the task done faster than typically expected unless you are dropping additional compensation/benefits on them to make up the difference.

If John can do the same work as bob in half the time then John should get to fark off for the rest of that time not have to pickup Bob's slack. Far to many business owners punish efficiency by adding to workload without compensating pay or otherwise. Suddenly John is doing twice as much work as bob and if he's lucky he might get an extra quarter in his yearly raise over what bob got. Can't imagine why we can't retain workers like John or why they eventually slow down and seem to screw off a lot.
 
2021-06-15 2:01:09 AM  

LordJiro: MrBallou: Similar to my opinion that if you have to cheat your workers out of a fair day's pay to make a profit, you're not very good at whatever business you're supposedly engaged in.

This. If paying your workers a living wage will put you out of business, then you don't deserve to be in business.


Business/owners who can't pay a living wage should have their businesses income taxed at 100% of their profit and their personal income taxed at 100% of anything above the wage they pay their lowest paid worker. The rule should be that you don't earn profit/income until your employees are able to live on what you pay them.
 
2021-06-15 2:28:10 AM  

nytmare: You can get a better deal if you're holding a thermal detonator.


You're my kind of scum.
 
2021-06-15 2:30:14 AM  

keldaria: Daer21: sithon: I just heard a quote about Henry Ford. He said "If you want to know the most efficient way to do a task, assign the laziest person you know, they will find the way"

He's wrong. You want the laziest person who will actually do it right. Otherwise they'll fark it up in ways you don't notice till it's too late.

You want smart lazy people, and you should make sure to control their workload and not just pile more shiat on them because they got the task done faster than typically expected unless you are dropping additional compensation/benefits on them to make up the difference.

If John can do the same work as bob in half the time then John should get to fark off for the rest of that time not have to pickup Bob's slack. Far to many business owners punish efficiency by adding to workload without compensating pay or otherwise. Suddenly John is doing twice as much work as bob and if he's lucky he might get an extra quarter in his yearly raise over what bob got. Can't imagine why we can't retain workers like John or why they eventually slow down and seem to screw off a lot.


My hypothesis is that the business world hates Johns. Johns come in, show everyone up, pose a threat to the status quo by making everyone look bad in comparison, and may even dare to question management's infallibile authority.

So you dump the extra work on John to get ahead, implement the new procedures John created, and then kick John out the door before they ask for a raise (because then the other plebs will ask too). After John leaves the company putzs around with their new productivity bump until things stagnate and they need a new John to exploit.

All the while, bending over backwards to keep the low performers happy, because it's not like they can get a better job, and training new people is hard.

/Totally not bitter about the workforce..
 
2021-06-15 5:06:36 AM  

SoupGuru: This is America where we fetishize our work hours. You don't want to be one of those lazy Europeans do you, with all their vacation time, holidays, and time to spend with their families? That's what I thought. We're also going to need you to come in on Saturday....


comicbookandbeyond.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-15 6:49:02 AM  
"Unpopular opinion: the best thing young people can do early in their careers is to work on the weekends," she tweeted Friday night.

Popular opinion: The best thing young people can do early in their careers is to work only on the weekends.
 
2021-06-15 7:27:25 AM  

dammit just give me a login: sithon: I just heard a quote about Henry Ford. He said "If you want to know the most efficient way to do a task, assign the laziest person you know, they will find the way"

I like the quote, but IRL it seems like the lazy ones never learn the skills to understand the shortcuts. I'd be really careful about elevating a slacker. They'll lean on it and the good ones will resent them, and ultimately the company, and leave.

Experience from a welding shop where a real slacker charmed the boss and "could do no wrong."  In 6 months, the best 3 guys took off and production for the year dropped.


The problem is, can you tell a real slacker from a hard worker.
 
2021-06-15 7:53:19 AM  

blastoh: [iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/aS3-iSEw​Nhs?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3​A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=0&enablejsap​i=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&​widgetid=1]
I just watched this today
It's technically about the gaming industry, but the ideas apply across our society.


/Bookmarked
 
2021-06-15 8:12:55 AM  

Daer21: sithon: I just heard a quote about Henry Ford. He said "If you want to know the most efficient way to do a task, assign the laziest person you know, they will find the way"

He's wrong. You want the laziest person who will actually do it right. Otherwise they'll fark it up in ways you don't notice till it's too late.


We're talking Ford automobiles here so... Yeah.
 
2021-06-15 8:44:24 AM  
I saw this again and again working as a tech writer for 30 years -- for myself.  I'd get assigned to a six-month project, then finish in three months.  Done and done, done.  The boss would get in a tizzy because I screwed up the schedule, and co-workers were upset that I  "made them look bad".  Very rarely I'd have a smart boss  who'd assign me to a new project to bring in new revenue, but only like once or twice.

And no, I never had work overtime or weekends.  Except once with a super-project: and the bosses trashed that.

I knew it  would happen.  The Peter Principle illustrated that the people at the far ends of the bell curve -- the inefficient and the super-efficient -- both get fired for "disrupting the system".
 
2021-06-15 9:03:00 AM  

keldaria: LordJiro: MrBallou: Similar to my opinion that if you have to cheat your workers out of a fair day's pay to make a profit, you're not very good at whatever business you're supposedly engaged in.

This. If paying your workers a living wage will put you out of business, then you don't deserve to be in business.

Business/owners who can't pay a living wage should have their businesses income taxed at 100% of their profit and their personal income taxed at 100% of anything above the wage they pay their lowest paid worker. The rule should be that you don't earn profit/income until your employees are able to live on what you pay them.


God, I hate the term "living wage." No, you are paid what your job is worth on the free market. Don't like it, get a new one? If you can't find one that pays better, then that shows you're getting paid exactly what your job is worth. And if you can do your job from home, so can some dude in India - for a quarter of what you're making. Just think about that.
 
2021-06-15 9:20:25 AM  

Catsaregreen: keldaria: LordJiro: MrBallou: Similar to my opinion that if you have to cheat your workers out of a fair day's pay to make a profit, you're not very good at whatever business you're supposedly engaged in.

This. If paying your workers a living wage will put you out of business, then you don't deserve to be in business.

Business/owners who can't pay a living wage should have their businesses income taxed at 100% of their profit and their personal income taxed at 100% of anything above the wage they pay their lowest paid worker. The rule should be that you don't earn profit/income until your employees are able to live on what you pay them.

God, I hate the term "living wage." No, you are paid what your job is worth on the free market. Don't like it, get a new one? If you can't find one that pays better, then that shows you're getting paid exactly what your job is worth. And if you can do your job from home, so can some dude in India - for a quarter of what you're making. Just think about that.


Well, you are an idiot. I don't even know where to start with this. Your answer to the problem of "I don't make enough money to live" is get a new job. Not "if a company can't afford to pay its workers where is that money going if the business continues to exist?

Answer into the pockets of the owners and share holders in sums that are just insane.

The world needs to have a serious and detailed conversation about working in the coming age as we creep closer to the singularity.

Either a job is worth having a human do it and there for they should be compensated based on the area they live for housing, food additional issues such as extra health care, medications, new cloths, transportation ect. Or we should just go full automation instead of forcing humans to life hand to mouth and then blaming them for the rich assholes in their ivory tower taking all their hard work and money and giving them a pittance.

As a final argument consider for a moment France
 
2021-06-15 9:43:16 AM  

SoupGuru: This is America where we fetishize our work hours. You don't want to be one of those lazy Europeans do you, with all their vacation time, holidays, and time to spend with their families? That's what I thought. We're also going to need you to come in on Saturday....


That's because all the Christian loonies that created this style of capitalism were kicked out of Europe and sent to America.

Really.  Predestination and conflating economic success with a sign that someone has been saved is the reason why Americans engage with a religious like fervor in economic activity.  Because it is a religion. The worship of material wealth disguised as Christianity.
 
2021-06-15 9:46:48 AM  

Catsaregreen: keldaria: LordJiro: MrBallou: Similar to my opinion that if you have to cheat your workers out of a fair day's pay to make a profit, you're not very good at whatever business you're supposedly engaged in.

This. If paying your workers a living wage will put you out of business, then you don't deserve to be in business.

Business/owners who can't pay a living wage should have their businesses income taxed at 100% of their profit and their personal income taxed at 100% of anything above the wage they pay their lowest paid worker. The rule should be that you don't earn profit/income until your employees are able to live on what you pay them.

God, I hate the term "living wage." No, you are paid what your job is worth on the free market. Don't like it, get a new one? If you can't find one that pays better, then that shows you're getting paid exactly what your job is worth. And if you can do your job from home, so can some dude in India - for a quarter of what you're making. Just think about that.


If a business cannot pay enough for someone to live, then someone has to pick up the slack.

Usually it is me, the asshole who pays his fair share of taxes.

Why should I subsidize incompetent small business owners?
 
2021-06-15 9:47:53 AM  

sithon: I just heard a quote about Henry Ford. He said "If you want to know the most efficient way to do a task, assign the laziest person you know, they will find the way"


The laziest person will always find an excuse to not do it at all.
 
2021-06-15 9:48:13 AM  

Catsaregreen: keldaria: LordJiro: MrBallou: Similar to my opinion that if you have to cheat your workers out of a fair day's pay to make a profit, you're not very good at whatever business you're supposedly engaged in.

This. If paying your workers a living wage will put you out of business, then you don't deserve to be in business.

Business/owners who can't pay a living wage should have their businesses income taxed at 100% of their profit and their personal income taxed at 100% of anything above the wage they pay their lowest paid worker. The rule should be that you don't earn profit/income until your employees are able to live on what you pay them.

God, I hate the term "living wage." No, you are paid what your job is worth on the free market. Don't like it, get a new one? If you can't find one that pays better, then that shows you're getting paid exactly what your job is worth. And if you can do your job from home, so can some dude in India - for a quarter of what you're making. Just think about that.


Do you mean fair market, or "fair" market. If the employer is exploiting his workers, it's not fair.

Your presumption is that the employee has to accept what the employer says the job is worth, but that's wrong. The worker should be telling the employer what it'll take to contract X amount of his time.

If the MacDonald's manager needs somebody to mop the restrooms, he needs that employee more than the employee needs him.
 
2021-06-15 9:54:01 AM  
She even admits that lifestyle gave her pre-diabetes and IBS.  These are often permanent issues resulting in a shortened lifespan, and she wants you to spend more of that shortened lifespan working for someone else to get rich.  This doesn't apply obviously of you are working for yourself. It's tough out there.
 
2021-06-15 9:58:47 AM  

sithon: I just heard a quote about Henry Ford. He said "If you want to know the most efficient way to do a task, assign the laziest person you know, they will find the way"


Too late, they've already been assigned Twitter accounts.  Who has time for work?
 
2021-06-15 10:12:03 AM  

wet drum sandwich: She also spoke of her experience running a startup, working 90-hour weeks and developing pre-diabetes and IBS with all this labor.

Well, that certainly makes it sound appealing.


I didn't know she was an .ibs model developer, as AMI.
 
2021-06-15 10:32:09 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

But it's not a religion.
 
2021-06-15 10:47:32 AM  

Catsaregreen: keldaria: LordJiro: MrBallou: Similar to my opinion that if you have to cheat your workers out of a fair day's pay to make a profit, you're not very good at whatever business you're supposedly engaged in.

This. If paying your workers a living wage will put you out of business, then you don't deserve to be in business.

Business/owners who can't pay a living wage should have their businesses income taxed at 100% of their profit and their personal income taxed at 100% of anything above the wage they pay their lowest paid worker. The rule should be that you don't earn profit/income until your employees are able to live on what you pay them.

God, I hate the term "living wage." No, you are paid what your job is worth on the free market. Don't like it, get a new one? If you can't find one that pays better, then that shows you're getting paid exactly what your job is worth. And if you can do your job from home, so can some dude in India - for a quarter of what you're making. Just think about that.


Yet people like you are somehow the first to complain because businesses can't get any applicants for minimum wage positions, especially when the federal government chips in the bare minimum in extra unemployment to help people get through these rough times. Poor business owners, how can they survive paying people more then the bare minimum, how can they compete?

If a position literally can't afford to pay a living wage then that position shouldn't exist. If the loss of that position is crippling to your business then perhaps it's worth paying a living wage. If that's crippling to your business then you shouldn't be in business.

I'm sorry you can't force people into slavery anymore (mostly), that was a huge loss for the south during the civil war and I'm sure it still stings.
 
2021-06-15 11:31:37 AM  

Catsaregreen: God, I hate the term "living wage." No, you are paid what your job is worth on the free market. Don't like it, get a new one? If you can't find one that pays better, then that shows you're getting paid exactly what your job is worth.


Sure, unless the employer is a beneficiary of the largesse of the American taxpayer via tax breaks, welfare, food stamps and other considerations.

If you ask the CEO of Walmart if he pays employees what they're worth "on the free market" he'd probably say yes, despite numerous studies showing that a large percentage of Walmart employees collect government subsidies because Walmart doesn't pay enough.

Stop buying into this self-congratulatory "job creator" masturbation from millionaires whose employees are subsidized by the American tax payer.
 
2021-06-15 11:40:55 AM  

zeroman987: Catsaregreen: keldaria: LordJiro: MrBallou: Similar to my opinion that if you have to cheat your workers out of a fair day's pay to make a profit, you're not very good at whatever business you're supposedly engaged in.

This. If paying your workers a living wage will put you out of business, then you don't deserve to be in business.

Business/owners who can't pay a living wage should have their businesses income taxed at 100% of their profit and their personal income taxed at 100% of anything above the wage they pay their lowest paid worker. The rule should be that you don't earn profit/income until your employees are able to live on what you pay them.

God, I hate the term "living wage." No, you are paid what your job is worth on the free market. Don't like it, get a new one? If you can't find one that pays better, then that shows you're getting paid exactly what your job is worth. And if you can do your job from home, so can some dude in India - for a quarter of what you're making. Just think about that.

If a business cannot pay enough for someone to live, then someone has to pick up the slack.

Usually it is me, the asshole who pays his fair share of taxes.

Why should I subsidize incompetent small business owners?


If you think that small business owners don't pay their "fair share", you're delusional or ignorant (or both). Full stop. The amount of money we pay in employer side tax, city tax, county tax, personal property tax, health insurance, is appreciable, all the while any profit the company makes (as a subchapter S) gets counted as income for the owners even if no distribution is taken. Yes, that means we pay tax on money we don't have in our pockets. And some expenses, such as vandalism and on-site business improvements can't be written off the year it happens. They are spread out over 5, 7, or 39 years.

It's not the small business owner that isn't being taxed appropriately. It's huge corporations. Remember that distinction and stop demonizing people that aren't your enemy.
 
2021-06-15 12:12:09 PM  
I'm entirely too old to work crazy overtime.  I used to work every hour that was available.  I'm paid enough to do just fine on my 40.
 
2021-06-15 12:18:40 PM  

Catlenfell: I'm entirely too old to work crazy overtime.  I used to work every hour that was available.  I'm paid enough to do just fine on my 40.


She's not talking about paid overtime.
 
2021-06-15 12:37:53 PM  
This should be a commonly held belief. People should feel ashamed when they work more than 40 hours in a week. It should be viewed as the sign of good work when someone can leave early for the day.
 
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