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(Guardian)   NATO leaders are set to agree that China presents security risk. Don't expect Putin to take losing some of the spotlight in stride   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Cold War, United States, Nato leaders, Democratic Party, military alliance, Joe Biden, NATO, World War II  
•       •       •

237 clicks; posted to Politics » on 14 Jun 2021 at 2:41 PM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



38 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-06-14 9:17:35 AM  
We should have done this 4 years ago.  But nooooo.  God damn Trump to hell.
 
2021-06-14 10:40:09 AM  
Other countries have highlighted the importance of striking a balance. Boris Johnson, the UK prime minister, said as he arrived at the gathering: "I think when it comes to China, I don't think anybody around the table today wants to descend into a new cold war."

If you sat at the same table as the American President, then you are wrong and you know it.

Most nations know that they need to work with China- not just because it is the largest consumer market and second largest economy- but because climate change is a much bigger issue than the American Ego.
 
2021-06-14 1:06:53 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Other countries have highlighted the importance of striking a balance. Boris Johnson, the UK prime minister, said as he arrived at the gathering: "I think when it comes to China, I don't think anybody around the table today wants to descend into a new cold war."

If you sat at the same table as the American President, then you are wrong and you know it.

Most nations know that they need to work with China- not just because it is the largest consumer market and second largest economy- but because climate change is a much bigger issue than the American Ego.


Correcting the highlighted, China is not the largest consumer market. China is the 3rd largest consumer market after the US and the EU. It's not even on a trajectory to become the second largest in the foreseeable future.

To the rest, I honestly agree with you. We should seek to engage and integrate China into the global order. But that doesn't mean ignoring an obvious and growing potential for conflict. Even Russia, which has probably the best relations with China, developed and deployed their INF violating nuclear missiles in the East because of the strategic threat that China poses.
 
2021-06-14 2:45:26 PM  
I'm pretty sure Pooty poot will be fine with that.  China distracts his opposition leaving him free to what he does.
 
2021-06-14 2:47:18 PM  

b2theory: Nadie_AZ: Other countries have highlighted the importance of striking a balance. Boris Johnson, the UK prime minister, said as he arrived at the gathering: "I think when it comes to China, I don't think anybody around the table today wants to descend into a new cold war."

If you sat at the same table as the American President, then you are wrong and you know it.

Most nations know that they need to work with China- not just because it is the largest consumer market and second largest economy- but because climate change is a much bigger issue than the American Ego.

Correcting the highlighted, China is not the largest consumer market. China is the 3rd largest consumer market after the US and the EU. It's not even on a trajectory to become the second largest in the foreseeable future.

To the rest, I honestly agree with you. We should seek to engage and integrate China into the global order. But that doesn't mean ignoring an obvious and growing potential for conflict. Even Russia, which has probably the best relations with China, developed and deployed their INF violating nuclear missiles in the East because of the strategic threat that China poses.


China is already well integrated into the global order.  They're actually building trillions of dollars of infrastructure in FOREIGN COUNTRIES to promote the Belt and Road Initiative.  While the US doesn't even want to spend infrastructure dollars in America.

The US is on the downward trend and China is on the upward one.  Has been for decades.
 
2021-06-14 2:49:47 PM  
 
2021-06-14 2:50:08 PM  
Meanwhile NATO : Merkel sucking up to Putin for the Nord Stream 2 pipeline is all good.

/Merkel probably signed Molotov-Ribbentrop 2 treaty in secret
 
2021-06-14 2:50:34 PM  

jethroe: b2theory: Nadie_AZ:


China is already well integrated into the global order.  They're actually building trillions of dollars of infrastructure in FOREIGN COUNTRIES to promote the Belt and Road Initiative.  While the US doesn't even want to spend infrastructure dollars in America.

The US is on the downward trend and China is on the upward one.  Has been for decades.


That's not what Belt and Road is about but keep on keeping on.
 
2021-06-14 2:52:33 PM  
Oh the CCP apologists won't like this one bit. They're gonna be in a bit of a tizzy over this one.
 
2021-06-14 2:54:47 PM  
NATO Leaders Set to Agree That Reason The Alliance Exists Still Exists.
 
2021-06-14 2:55:56 PM  

b2theory: jethroe: b2theory: Nadie_AZ:


China is already well integrated into the global order.  They're actually building trillions of dollars of infrastructure in FOREIGN COUNTRIES to promote the Belt and Road Initiative.  While the US doesn't even want to spend infrastructure dollars in America.

The US is on the downward trend and China is on the upward one.  Has been for decades.

That's not what Belt and Road is about but keep on keeping on.


Why don't you share with the class?  My assertion is that the Belt and Road initiative is to increase China's economic access to different markets by buying their way into those markets by building infrastructure that they'll be the biggest user of.

What's your opinion?
 
2021-06-14 2:57:37 PM  

Marcus Aurelius: We should have done this 4 years ago.  But nooooo.  God damn Trump to hell.


Nixon shouldnt have done shiat when the USSR wanted to nuke China back in 69/do a joint military strike against chinese nuclear weapons development and denied them nuclear weapons. It would have saved a whole lot of trouble. No Vietnam war. No nuclear armed north korea. Probably better relations with the USSR and an end to the cold war way earlier.

Fark Nixon and Kissinger, farking Mao cockgobblers.
 
2021-06-14 3:00:04 PM  

jethroe: b2theory: jethroe: b2theory: Nadie_AZ:


China is already well integrated into the global order.  They're actually building trillions of dollars of infrastructure in FOREIGN COUNTRIES to promote the Belt and Road Initiative.  While the US doesn't even want to spend infrastructure dollars in America.

The US is on the downward trend and China is on the upward one.  Has been for decades.

That's not what Belt and Road is about but keep on keeping on.

Why don't you share with the class?  My assertion is that the Belt and Road initiative is to increase China's economic access to different markets by buying their way into those markets by building infrastructure that they'll be the biggest user of.

What's your opinion?


It exists to prop up their domestic construction and raw materials industries.
 
2021-06-14 3:00:21 PM  

Nadie_AZ: Other countries have highlighted the importance of striking a balance. Boris Johnson, the UK prime minister, said as he arrived at the gathering: "I think when it comes to China, I don't think anybody around the table today wants to descend into a new cold war."

If you sat at the same table as the American President, then you are wrong and you know it.

Most nations know that they need to work with China- not just because it is the largest consumer market and second largest economy- but because climate change is a much bigger issue than the American Ego.


Right on cue. China has a farking terrible system of government and no amount of anti-USA whataboutisms from you is going to change that. Stop sucking their nuts, they are objectively a worse country than us.
 
2021-06-14 3:00:52 PM  

lolmao500: Marcus Aurelius: We should have done this 4 years ago.  But nooooo.  God damn Trump to hell.

Nixon shouldnt have done shiat when the USSR wanted to nuke China back in 69/do a joint military strike against chinese nuclear weapons development and denied them nuclear weapons. It would have saved a whole lot of trouble. No Vietnam war. No nuclear armed north korea. Probably better relations with the USSR and an end to the cold war way earlier.

Fark Nixon and Kissinger, farking Mao cockgobblers.


And then there's this edgelord...
 
2021-06-14 3:02:54 PM  

b2theory: jethroe: b2theory: jethroe: b2theory: Nadie_AZ:


China is already well integrated into the global order.  They're actually building trillions of dollars of infrastructure in FOREIGN COUNTRIES to promote the Belt and Road Initiative.  While the US doesn't even want to spend infrastructure dollars in America.

The US is on the downward trend and China is on the upward one.  Has been for decades.

That's not what Belt and Road is about but keep on keeping on.

Why don't you share with the class?  My assertion is that the Belt and Road initiative is to increase China's economic access to different markets by buying their way into those markets by building infrastructure that they'll be the biggest user of.

What's your opinion?

It exists to prop up their domestic construction and raw materials industries.


LOL, what?  So they're spending many trillions of dollars to build roads and infrastructure to make money for their own construction companies?  Why not just give those companies cash?  Why have them build roads in freaking Azerbaijain?  Why am I even taking anything you are saying seriously after you made such a patently ludicrous and simplistic statement?
 
2021-06-14 3:04:37 PM  

jethroe: b2theory: jethroe: b2theory: Nadie_AZ:


China is already well integrated into the global order.  They're actually building trillions of dollars of infrastructure in FOREIGN COUNTRIES to promote the Belt and Road Initiative.  While the US doesn't even want to spend infrastructure dollars in America.

The US is on the downward trend and China is on the upward one.  Has been for decades.

That's not what Belt and Road is about but keep on keeping on.

Why don't you share with the class?  My assertion is that the Belt and Road initiative is to increase China's economic access to different markets by buying their way into those markets by building infrastructure that they'll be the biggest user of.

What's your opinion?



I thought a major component of the Belt and Road Initiative was to create a series of debtor-nations that is reliant on China for their infrastructure.  China's not building this shiat for free, and by having a hold on their economies it hopes to create a China-friendly sphere of influence to oppose US hegemony.
 
2021-06-14 3:06:57 PM  

Puglio: China-based campaign breached satellite, defense companies

China behind another hack as U.S. cybersecurity issues mount

Hackers Connected to China Have Compromised U.S. Government Systems, CISA says

Chinese hackers stole another NSA-linked hacking tool, research finds

China has been 'hijacking the vital internet backbone of western countries'

US Government and Military Websites Redirected to Chinese Servers

Ya think? We are already at war, we just aren't doing anything about it but frowning and saying we're not mad, just disappointed.


Well I mean, there *is* a lot of money to be made.
 
2021-06-14 3:08:03 PM  
lolmao500:

1) Vietnam happened because America declined to assist the Vietnamese when they begged for help to gain their independence because the legitimate political power in question were Western friendly socialists, and then tried to interfere with military force when political forces who weren't Western friendly got sick of being an exploited colony.

2)  You really think giving the USSR China's natural resources and worker pool would have shortened the cold war?  Are you genuinely that stupid?
 
2021-06-14 3:10:05 PM  

Murkanen: 1) Vietnam happened because America declined to assist the Vietnamese when they begged for help to gain their independence because the legitimate political power in question were Western friendly socialists, and then tried to interfere with military force when political forces who weren't Western friendly got sick of being an exploited colony.


Agree, but don't forget to mention the CIA turning the police force in Vietnam into a farking cartel.
 
2021-06-14 3:10:28 PM  

TerraGoetia: jethroe: b2theory: jethroe: b2theory: Nadie_AZ:


China is already well integrated into the global order.  They're actually building trillions of dollars of infrastructure in FOREIGN COUNTRIES to promote the Belt and Road Initiative.  While the US doesn't even want to spend infrastructure dollars in America.

The US is on the downward trend and China is on the upward one.  Has been for decades.

That's not what Belt and Road is about but keep on keeping on.

Why don't you share with the class?  My assertion is that the Belt and Road initiative is to increase China's economic access to different markets by buying their way into those markets by building infrastructure that they'll be the biggest user of.

What's your opinion?


I thought a major component of the Belt and Road Initiative was to create a series of debtor-nations that is reliant on China for their infrastructure.  China's not building this shiat for free, and by having a hold on their economies it hopes to create a China-friendly sphere of influence to oppose US hegemony.


Absolutely China is not building this for free, if I implied that I apologize.  They are building it to make distributing their own goods easier.  They are doing it to increase their economic influence in the region.  Yes, to oppose US hegemony.

And it'll work.  And the US isn't doing anything to counter it except shrieking that China is trying to take over the world.

And they are, or at least to vastly increase their access to global consumer markets.  With infrastructure spending in other countries instead of hundred of billions of dollars in military spending to maintain a global network of military bases in foreign countries.  Roads not bases.

And they'll win that fight.
 
2021-06-14 3:12:49 PM  

jethroe: b2theory: jethroe: b2theory: jethroe: b2theory: Nadie_AZ:


China is already well integrated into the global order.  They're actually building trillions of dollars of infrastructure in FOREIGN COUNTRIES to promote the Belt and Road Initiative.  While the US doesn't even want to spend infrastructure dollars in America.

The US is on the downward trend and China is on the upward one.  Has been for decades.

That's not what Belt and Road is about but keep on keeping on.

Why don't you share with the class?  My assertion is that the Belt and Road initiative is to increase China's economic access to different markets by buying their way into those markets by building infrastructure that they'll be the biggest user of.

What's your opinion?

It exists to prop up their domestic construction and raw materials industries.

LOL, what?  So they're spending many trillions of dollars to build roads and infrastructure to make money for their own construction companies?  Why not just give those companies cash?  Why have them build roads in freaking Azerbaijain?  Why am I even taking anything you are saying seriously after you made such a patently ludicrous and simplistic statement?


No, you're right, China is doing it for purely humanitarian reasons with absolutely no self interest, just like they do everything else.
64.media.tumblr.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-14 3:12:59 PM  

Murkanen: lolmao500:

1) Vietnam happened because America declined to assist the Vietnamese when they begged for help to gain their independence because the legitimate political power in question were Western friendly socialists, and then tried to interfere with military force when political forces who weren't Western friendly got sick of being an exploited colony.

2)  You really think giving the USSR China's natural resources and worker pool would have shortened the cold war?  Are you genuinely that stupid?


Without chinese military help, would the vietmin really been able to last that long? Doubtful.

And how in the fark would have the USSR taken over natural ressources and worker pool? They wouldnt have invaded and annexed em.
 
2021-06-14 3:16:18 PM  

Luse: jethroe: b2theory: jethroe: b2theory: jethroe: b2theory: Nadie_AZ:


China is already well integrated into the global order.  They're actually building trillions of dollars of infrastructure in FOREIGN COUNTRIES to promote the Belt and Road Initiative.  While the US doesn't even want to spend infrastructure dollars in America.

The US is on the downward trend and China is on the upward one.  Has been for decades.

That's not what Belt and Road is about but keep on keeping on.

Why don't you share with the class?  My assertion is that the Belt and Road initiative is to increase China's economic access to different markets by buying their way into those markets by building infrastructure that they'll be the biggest user of.

What's your opinion?

It exists to prop up their domestic construction and raw materials industries.

LOL, what?  So they're spending many trillions of dollars to build roads and infrastructure to make money for their own construction companies?  Why not just give those companies cash?  Why have them build roads in freaking Azerbaijain?  Why am I even taking anything you are saying seriously after you made such a patently ludicrous and simplistic statement?

No, you're right, China is doing it for purely humanitarian reasons with absolutely no self interest, just like they do everything else.
[64.media.tumblr.com image 410x282] [View Full Size image _x_]


Try reading what I wrote after the one you're responding to, Brainiac
 
2021-06-14 3:18:03 PM  
lolmao500:

Without chinese military help, would the vietmin really been able to last that long?

It sounds like you have the Vietnam and Korean wars mixed up.

That aside, considering you just got your ass kicked by guerilla fighters in Afghanistan after 20 years, yes I absolutely think the Vietnamese guerilla war would have still forced you out through attrition because *spoiler alert* they didn't want you occupying their country.
 
2021-06-14 3:18:10 PM  
jethroe, Please don't apologize, and I didn't mean to put any such words in your mouth if I did.  My intent was to show the strategic reason for the Belt and Road Initiative.  It's not just about access, it's about control.  If your ports are majority-owned by Chinese companies, you're not going to take hostile stances against the Party.

It's less subtle than the US destroying South America for a fruit company, for sure, but the effect of increasing influence shouldn't be ignored.  China is growing in soft power.

I agree that the US isn't really doing anything about it.  They are kind of in a bind because China is one of our largest trading partners.  We don't want to make hostile moves that might disable our ability to use North Korean alien slave labor (there was a huge problem with Koreans fleeing the homeland and getting stuck as undocumented people in China... not wanting to go back because it'll mean certain death.  They often end up as slaves for shady companies).

Will China "win?"  I don't know.  But I do feel as if the USA is tottering towards collapse regardless.  Steadily increasing pressure will be all its geopolitical rivals need to do.
 
2021-06-14 3:23:45 PM  

TerraGoetia: jethroe, Please don't apologize, and I didn't mean to put any such words in your mouth if I did.  My intent was to show the strategic reason for the Belt and Road Initiative.  It's not just about access, it's about control.  If your ports are majority-owned by Chinese companies, you're not going to take hostile stances against the Party.

It's less subtle than the US destroying South America for a fruit company, for sure, but the effect of increasing influence shouldn't be ignored.  China is growing in soft power.

I agree that the US isn't really doing anything about it.  They are kind of in a bind because China is one of our largest trading partners.  We don't want to make hostile moves that might disable our ability to use North Korean alien slave labor (there was a huge problem with Koreans fleeing the homeland and getting stuck as undocumented people in China... not wanting to go back because it'll mean certain death.  They often end up as slaves for shady companies).

Will China "win?"  I don't know.  But I do feel as if the USA is tottering towards collapse regardless.  Steadily increasing pressure will be all its geopolitical rivals need to do.


Then it appears we agree 100%.  Which seems boring.  I mean, this is the internet.  Maybe we can insult each other's families?

MY WIFE IS FAT.  No wait, you're supposed to say that.
 
2021-06-14 3:25:14 PM  

jethroe: b2theory: jethroe: 

What's your opinion?

It exists to prop up their domestic construction and raw materials industries.

LOL, what?  So they're spending many trillions of dollars to build roads and infrastructure to make money for their own construction companies?  Why not just give those companies cash?  Why have them build roads in freaking Azerbaijain?  Why am I even taking anything you are saying seriously after you made such a patently ludicrous and simplistic statement?


You might think it simplistic but that says more about you than me. Construction and it's feeder industries (steel and concrete production... etc) makes up north of 40% of China's entire economy. Instability in that sector represents an existential threat to the central government.

You can't "give those companies cash" because that "cash" needs to come from somewhere. Historically, that "cash" has come for local government financed infrastructure (debt paid by land sales), housing and commercial  construction (debt paid by individuals and companies), and large national infrastructure projects (debt paid by project bonds... railroads and dams). What happens when you run out of things to build in China? You could do nothing and allow the largest sector of your economy to unwind, or you could find another country to build in.

The biggest problem with the plan is that they are finding that reason many of the projects weren't getting done isn't because the countries lack moxie. It because many of these projects will never pay for themselves. The host countries are already defaulting on their debt.
 
2021-06-14 3:26:22 PM  

TerraGoetia: jethroe, Please don't apologize, and I didn't mean to put any such words in your mouth if I did.  My intent was to show the strategic reason for the Belt and Road Initiative.  It's not just about access, it's about control.  If your ports are majority-owned by Chinese companies, you're not going to take hostile stances against the Party.

It's less subtle than the US destroying South America for a fruit company, for sure, but the effect of increasing influence shouldn't be ignored.  China is growing in soft power.

I agree that the US isn't really doing anything about it.  They are kind of in a bind because China is one of our largest trading partners.  We don't want to make hostile moves that might disable our ability to use North Korean alien slave labor (there was a huge problem with Koreans fleeing the homeland and getting stuck as undocumented people in China... not wanting to go back because it'll mean certain death.  They often end up as slaves for shady companies).

Will China "win?"  I don't know.  But I do feel as if the USA is tottering towards collapse regardless.  Steadily increasing pressure will be all its geopolitical rivals need to do.


The US wouldn't be in such a mess if half it's population wasn't steadfastly committed to malicious self-harm because they know the half trying to keep things on stable ground will die too.
 
2021-06-14 3:28:37 PM  
jethroe:
Then it appears we agree 100%.  Which seems boring.  I mean, this is the internet.  Maybe we can insult each other's families?

MY WIFE IS FAT.  No wait, you're supposed to say that.


I'll farkie you as "insane," because you must be to agree with me.

Okay okay here this insult:
Yo Mama is so ugly that when she comes around people politely suggest things she could try with her hair!  Yo Mama is so fat that when she gets on the scale, it gives her an accurate representation of her weight in numerical form!  Oooooo
 
2021-06-14 3:32:47 PM  

b2theory: jethroe: b2theory: jethroe: 

What's your opinion?

It exists to prop up their domestic construction and raw materials industries.

LOL, what?  So they're spending many trillions of dollars to build roads and infrastructure to make money for their own construction companies?  Why not just give those companies cash?  Why have them build roads in freaking Azerbaijain?  Why am I even taking anything you are saying seriously after you made such a patently ludicrous and simplistic statement?

You might think it simplistic but that says more about you than me. Construction and it's feeder industries (steel and concrete production... etc) makes up north of 40% of China's entire economy. Instability in that sector represents an existential threat to the central government.

You can't "give those companies cash" because that "cash" needs to come from somewhere. Historically, that "cash" has come for local government financed infrastructure (debt paid by land sales), housing and commercial  construction (debt paid by individuals and companies), and large national infrastructure projects (debt paid by project bonds... railroads and dams). What happens when you run out of things to build in China? You could do nothing and allow the largest sector of your economy to unwind, or you could find another country to build in.

The biggest problem with the plan is that they are finding that reason many of the projects weren't getting done isn't because the countries lack moxie. It because many of these projects will never pay for themselves. The host countries are already defaulting on their debt.


I mean, I pretty much disagree 100% but I'm willing to give you the benefit of the doubt because you used the word "moxie".

If they wanted to dump money into construction they could find other ways other than to build stuff in other countries.  This is purely to increase China's market penetration and they're willing to pony up the dough ahead of time in the understanding it'll pay off many times over in a decade.
 
2021-06-14 3:36:17 PM  

Murkanen: The US wouldn't be in such a mess if half it's population wasn't steadfastly committed to malicious self-harm because they know the half trying to keep things on stable ground will die too.


it's not self-harm to them.  They've in their mind completely divorced themselves from what they see as the other side.  The collapse of the "liberal" USA would mean a chance for them to implement Gilead, re-institute chattel slavery, and build the racial dystopia they imagine to be a glorious return to form.
 
2021-06-14 3:41:17 PM  

jethroe: Luse: jethroe: b2theory: jethroe: b2theory: jethroe: b2theory: Nadie_AZ:


China is already well integrated into the global order.  They're actually building trillions of dollars of infrastructure in FOREIGN COUNTRIES to promote the Belt and Road Initiative.  While the US doesn't even want to spend infrastructure dollars in America.

The US is on the downward trend and China is on the upward one.  Has been for decades.

That's not what Belt and Road is about but keep on keeping on.

Why don't you share with the class?  My assertion is that the Belt and Road initiative is to increase China's economic access to different markets by buying their way into those markets by building infrastructure that they'll be the biggest user of.

What's your opinion?

It exists to prop up their domestic construction and raw materials industries.

LOL, what?  So they're spending many trillions of dollars to build roads and infrastructure to make money for their own construction companies?  Why not just give those companies cash?  Why have them build roads in freaking Azerbaijain?  Why am I even taking anything you are saying seriously after you made such a patently ludicrous and simplistic statement?

No, you're right, China is doing it for purely humanitarian reasons with absolutely no self interest, just like they do everything else.
[64.media.tumblr.com image 410x282] [View Full Size image _x_]

Try reading what I wrote after the one you're responding to, Brainiac


I did, you had since apologized and corrected yourself because you realized how stupid you sounded, Genius.
 
2021-06-14 3:44:07 PM  

Luse: jethroe: Luse: jethroe: b2theory: jethroe: b2theory: jethroe: b2theory: Nadie_AZ:


China is already well integrated into the global order.  They're actually building trillions of dollars of infrastructure in FOREIGN COUNTRIES to promote the Belt and Road Initiative.  While the US doesn't even want to spend infrastructure dollars in America.

The US is on the downward trend and China is on the upward one.  Has been for decades.

That's not what Belt and Road is about but keep on keeping on.

Why don't you share with the class?  My assertion is that the Belt and Road initiative is to increase China's economic access to different markets by buying their way into those markets by building infrastructure that they'll be the biggest user of.

What's your opinion?

It exists to prop up their domestic construction and raw materials industries.

LOL, what?  So they're spending many trillions of dollars to build roads and infrastructure to make money for their own construction companies?  Why not just give those companies cash?  Why have them build roads in freaking Azerbaijain?  Why am I even taking anything you are saying seriously after you made such a patently ludicrous and simplistic statement?

No, you're right, China is doing it for purely humanitarian reasons with absolutely no self interest, just like they do everything else.
[64.media.tumblr.com image 410x282] [View Full Size image _x_]

Try reading what I wrote after the one you're responding to, Brainiac

I did, you had since apologized and corrected yourself because you realized how stupid you sounded, Genius.


So who's your alt?
 
2021-06-14 4:03:36 PM  
Don't have/need/want one. I saw you correct yourself after clicking refresh. Can you wrap your mind around that?
 
2021-06-14 4:27:20 PM  
How can this be? All the conservatives I know are convinced that Biden is a member of the Chinese Communist Party.
 
2021-06-14 4:42:54 PM  

Luse: Don't have/need/want one. I saw you correct yourself after clicking refresh. Can you wrap your mind around that?


Stopped caring, sorry
 
2021-06-15 11:23:56 AM  

jethroe: Luse: Don't have/need/want one. I saw you correct yourself after clicking refresh. Can you wrap your mind around that?

Stopped caring, sorry

I've got nothing to back up my moronic accusation.


/ftfy
 
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