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(Stars and Stripes)   Military planning to exhume remains of unidentified USS Arizona crew members from National Memorial Cemetery of the Pacific, re-interring them in sunken battleship in Pearl Harbor. Not everyone is happy with that thought   (stripes.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Attack on Pearl Harbor, USS Arizona, unidentified crew members, MIA Accounting Agency, USS Arizona crew members, unprecedented step, Arizona crew, accounting agency DirectorKelly McKeague  
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2267 clicks; posted to Main » on 14 Jun 2021 at 2:22 PM (7 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-06-14 1:01:10 PM  
Less a concrete plan and more of a preliminary idea that's being passed around, based on what's in the article.  While collecting DNA samples from family members of all 900+ deceased Arizona crewmen for comparison to identify the 85 unknowns would be a pretty big task, it doesn't seem like an impossible one either.  Ideally everyone would be identified and surviving family could decide for themselves whether to have their family member interred within the ship.

Interments on the Arizona are nothing new.  Survivors of the Arizona's sinking have had the option of having an urn containing their ashes placed within the ship for several decades now.  The National Park Service, which manages the USS Arizona Memorial, has a video about this.  It's a beautiful ceremony.

Eternal Peace
Youtube MgE2KiPd3xg
 
2021-06-14 2:27:00 PM  

Polish Hussar: Less a concrete plan and more of a preliminary idea that's being passed around, based on what's in the article.  While collecting DNA samples from family members of all 900+ deceased Arizona crewmen for comparison to identify the 85 unknowns would be a pretty big task, it doesn't seem like an impossible one either.  Ideally everyone would be identified and surviving family could decide for themselves whether to have their family member interred within the ship.

Interments on the Arizona are nothing new.  Survivors of the Arizona's sinking have had the option of having an urn containing their ashes placed within the ship for several decades now.  The National Park Service, which manages the USS Arizona Memorial, has a video about this.  It's a beautiful ceremony.

[Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/MgE2KiPd​3xg]


How many of those descendants are of the type that would shoot any guberment agent trying to swab their mouth?
 
2021-06-14 2:28:05 PM  

Polish Hussar: Less a concrete plan and more of a preliminary idea that's being passed around, based on what's in the article.  While collecting DNA samples from family members of all 900+ deceased Arizona crewmen for comparison to identify the 85 unknowns would be a pretty big task, it doesn't seem like an impossible one either.  Ideally everyone would be identified and surviving family could decide for themselves whether to have their family member interred within the ship.

Interments on the Arizona are nothing new.  Survivors of the Arizona's sinking have had the option of having an urn containing their ashes placed within the ship for several decades now.  The National Park Service, which manages the USS Arizona Memorial, has a video about this.  It's a beautiful ceremony.

[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/MgE2KiPd​3xg?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3​A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=0&enablejsap​i=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&​widgetid=1]


Wow! I had no idea. That's very cool.
 
2021-06-14 2:30:57 PM  
So ..."My Grand pappy went down with the Arizona. Twice."?
 
2021-06-14 2:32:13 PM  
This rubs me the wrong way, mostly because I am a little superstitious about graves, in that once they're established they shouldn't be messed around with. There are thousands of little cemeteries around the country, especially in the New England/East coast states where there are private properties that had been subdivided over the years. The little graveyards are everywhere, people tended to bury their relatives on their own farms and estates and a huge number of those are lost to time completely. New York City, Baltimore, Philadelphia etc are all built on old, forgotten graveyards that were dug up, bulldozed flat and built on without anyone knowing they were even there.
 
2021-06-14 2:32:31 PM  
Good premise for a Lifeforce type zombie monster movie but with sailors?
 
2021-06-14 2:32:54 PM  

focusthis: So ..."My Grand pappy went down with the Arizona. Twice."?


Quiet a record for this vicinity
 
2021-06-14 2:33:34 PM  
Want to take another try at that headline, Subby?
 
2021-06-14 2:34:03 PM  
Some ideas should just stay ideas, and never leave the lips of the person whose ideas they are in the first place.
 
2021-06-14 2:34:06 PM  
This seems like a good way to unintentionally rack up a few more corpses.
 
2021-06-14 2:34:09 PM  
Just pony up the cash and do DNA on them, then let other agencies or volunteers find familial matches. Jesus Christ.

Either that or inform the Pentagon you want to explore ordering a brand new F-35 and testing it as a funeral  ashes dispersal system (FADS), take the funding, spend it on DNA identification and says oops about not buying the F-35.
 
2021-06-14 2:36:11 PM  

Zybar Fooman's Three-Headed Child: Just pony up the cash and do DNA on them, then let other agencies or volunteers find familial matches. Jesus Christ.

Either that or inform the Pentagon you want to explore ordering a brand new F-35 and testing it as a funeral  ashes dispersal system (FADS), take the funding, spend it on DNA identification and says oops about not buying the F-35.


For the price of a single F-35 this country could put every single homeless person in the country into a fairly well-equipped single bedroom apartment.
 
2021-06-14 2:36:31 PM  

Polish Hussar: Less a concrete plan and more of a preliminary idea that's being passed around, based on what's in the article.  While collecting DNA samples from family members of all 900+ deceased Arizona crewmen for comparison to identify the 85 unknowns would be a pretty big task, it doesn't seem like an impossible one either.  Ideally everyone would be identified and surviving family could decide for themselves whether to have their family member interred within the ship.

Interments on the Arizona are nothing new.  Survivors of the Arizona's sinking have had the option of having an urn containing their ashes placed within the ship for several decades now.  The National Park Service, which manages the USS Arizona Memorial, has a video about this.  It's a beautiful ceremony.

[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/MgE2KiPd​3xg?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3​A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=0&enablejsap​i=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&​widgetid=1]


In that sense, I suppose there's no problem moving remains from one grave site to another.

In another, well, most of these men would probably have preferred to be buried on land.  Burial at sea is something of a practical necessity practiced in navies, and especially regarding those left in the Arizona.  It's only after the significance of the sinking and memorial has been placed upon the nation that some are opting to go back to the ship.
 
2021-06-14 2:36:58 PM  

maxandgrinch: Good premise for a Lifeforce type zombie monster movie but with sailors?


We have that 1980 movie from John Carpenter called The Fog, along with a shiatty remake of it in 2005.
 
2021-06-14 2:37:56 PM  
"They fly all over the world to bring our servicemen home and identify them and return them to their families," said Teri Mann-Whyatt, 50, whose uncle, William E. "Billy" Mann, was a gunner's mate 3rd class on the famed battleship.

"Why are they not important? Why are they not worth it?" said the Seattle resident, who still gets choked up thinking about her lost uncle


She was born 30 years after her uncles death. I think the "choking up" is AW'ing.
 
2021-06-14 2:38:54 PM  

Deathfrogg: This rubs me the wrong way, mostly because I am a little superstitious about graves, in that once they're established they shouldn't be messed around with. There are thousands of little cemeteries around the country, especially in the New England/East coast states where there are private properties that had been subdivided over the years. The little graveyards are everywhere, people tended to bury their relatives on their own farms and estates and a huge number of those are lost to time completely. New York City, Baltimore, Philadelphia etc are all built on old, forgotten graveyards that were dug up, bulldozed flat and built on without anyone knowing they were even there.


So once this planet is all graves we just find a new one?
 
2021-06-14 2:41:38 PM  

Deathfrogg: For the price of a single F-35 this country could put every single homeless person in the country into a fairly well-equipped single bedroom apartment.


~550,000 homeless
F-35 ~$80M

Total per homeless $145.45

IDK what single bedrooms furnished go for where you live at but it sure is shiat is not that cheap.
 
2021-06-14 2:42:12 PM  
Relocating the buried dead?
We used to lead the world.
It's China's century, and honestly, I'm glad I won't be around to see it.
We are a nation in decline.
 
2021-06-14 2:44:08 PM  

roddack: Deathfrogg: For the price of a single F-35 this country could put every single homeless person in the country into a fairly well-equipped single bedroom apartment.

~550,000 homeless
F-35 ~$80M

Total per homeless $145.45

IDK what single bedrooms furnished go for where you live at but it sure is shiat is not that cheap.


So like 10 of them?
You're bad at arguing.
 
2021-06-14 2:47:44 PM  
Note the 50 year old having a 93 year SISTER.
 
2021-06-14 2:48:51 PM  
I'm gonna go out on a limb here and say the sailors probably don't want to be inturred on a wrecked battleship where they died horrific deaths in war?  I mean, the vast majority of military folks seem WILLING to die in battle (there are are those in denial or just plain stupid) but I've only met one that seemed to LIKE the idea.  I'm pretty sure an extension of that is not wanting to spend eternity with their remains at a battle site.

This sounds much more like they want to move the graves so it looks less disrespectful when they install a gift shop where the gravesites used to be.
 
2021-06-14 2:53:05 PM  
I'm sorry, but if I remember the basics of almost any ghost story correctly, this is the opposite of what you're supposed to do. The remains are already in a peaceful cemetery, and you want to dig them up and put them back in the sunken wreck of the ship where they died a violent, terrifying death?

Pretty sure that's how you get angry sailor ghosts.
 
2021-06-14 2:54:22 PM  

roddack: Deathfrogg: For the price of a single F-35 this country could put every single homeless person in the country into a fairly well-equipped single bedroom apartment.

~550,000 homeless
F-35 ~$80M

Total per homeless $145.45

IDK what single bedrooms furnished go for where you live at but it sure is shiat is not that cheap.


Not that it changes your argument much, but the $80M figure is DoD math.  If you actually want to fly the plane, the price tag is more in the $110M to $140M range.

https://www.pogo.org/analysis/2020/10​/​selective-arithmetic-to-hide-the-f-35s​-true-costs/
 
2021-06-14 2:54:43 PM  

MIRV888: roddack: Deathfrogg: For the price of a single F-35 this country could put every single homeless person in the country into a fairly well-equipped single bedroom apartment.

~550,000 homeless
F-35 ~$80M

Total per homeless $145.45

IDK what single bedrooms furnished go for where you live at but it sure is shiat is not that cheap.

So like 10 of them?
You're bad at arguing.


About $3,000/month if the city of Seattle is a guide.
 
2021-06-14 2:56:23 PM  
yea, my bad, can't read today..
 
2021-06-14 2:58:08 PM  

MIRV888: roddack: Deathfrogg: For the price of a single F-35 this country could put every single homeless person in the country into a fairly well-equipped single bedroom apartment.

~550,000 homeless
F-35 ~$80M

Total per homeless $145.45

IDK what single bedrooms furnished go for where you live at but it sure is shiat is not that cheap.

So like 10 of them?
You're bad at arguing.


I am not arguing we can't solve the problem. I am just point out how wrong your math was, even 10 covers the cost, at best, for a single month. The total fleet is expected to be 2456 by 2044. Your scale would basically require the entire program be scrapped for it to work long term.

Again not saying we can't fix the problem. Your suggestion is just bad.
 
2021-06-14 2:58:13 PM  
Hey, heres an idea Einstein.

If I die how about you put me in the Playboy Mansion or the Bunny Ranch. You know, some place where a sailor might conceivably get some ghost pussy.

What kind of sick fu*k takes a guy out of the ground and puts him in a sunken fu*king ship...?
 
2021-06-14 2:59:18 PM  

Polish Hussar: Less a concrete plan and more of a preliminary idea that's being passed around, based on what's in the article.  While collecting DNA samples from family members of all 900+ deceased Arizona crewmen for comparison to identify the 85 unknowns would be a pretty big task, it doesn't seem like an impossible one either.  Ideally everyone would be identified and surviving family could decide for themselves whether to have their family member interred within the ship.

Interments on the Arizona are nothing new.  Survivors of the Arizona's sinking have had the option of having an urn containing their ashes placed within the ship for several decades now.  The National Park Service, which manages the USS Arizona Memorial, has a video about this.  It's a beautiful ceremony.

[iFrame https://www.youtube.com/embed/MgE2KiPd​3xg?autoplay=1&widget_referrer=https%3​A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&start=0&enablejsap​i=1&origin=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.fark.com&​widgetid=1]


I did not know this. Good find.
 
2021-06-14 3:03:45 PM  

Martian_Astronomer: you want to dig them up and put them back in the sunken wreck of the ship where they died a violent, terrifying death?


Fark user imageView Full Size


Probably not a good precedent to set.
 
2021-06-14 3:04:15 PM  
Seems like a big fuss over little pieces.  There is a very good reason they were not identified.
 
2021-06-14 3:20:33 PM  
My great-grandfather died shortly after the capture of Ft. Columbus, KY in  Jan, 1862. Records show he was buried at Birds Pt, MO where the 11th Illinois, Co K (it mustered & was formed at Kankakee, but I'm not sure if the company designation was alphabetical & coincidental) was encamped before, during & after the siege and  capture, and was supposed to be reinterred at Jefferson Barracks Cemetery but his widow wanted to bring him back to Illinois to the village cemetery which happens to border the family farm along now historic Route 66 (then the Chicago Road). Thats when his body was declared "lost." His name is listed on cenotaphs at Jefferson Barracks & in Miller Park, Bloomington, IL.  If remains are ever found at Birds Pt., as a Veteran my DNA is on file for comparison. Sadly, I am now his only living descendants. (For those doing finger maths, I was born in 1956, my Father in 1910, and his Father in 1861, 6 months before his Father died in 1862 - long generations). There are Unknowns in mass Graves at Jefferson Barracks as well. His remains will probably not be identified in my lifetime. Supposedly, there were only a few buried at Birds Pt and the records of burial were sloppy and on land owned by a Confederacy supporting traitor who moved/removed trees/rocks/landmarks necessary to identify the five or so graves that were lost. Great-Grandfather & the others did not die of wounds but of pneumonia, etc from getting wet crossing the Mississippi River in Winter. Evidently the Confederates didn't shoot a single Union troop during the battle. It'd be nice if he were buried in Illinois, or at least Jefferson Barracks, MO but I doubt it'll happen in my life.
 
2021-06-14 3:22:24 PM  

Heamer: This seems like a good way to unintentionally rack up a few more corpses.


At tremendous, unnecessary expense.
 
2021-06-14 3:37:22 PM  

Martian_Astronomer: I'm sorry, but if I remember the basics of almost any ghost story correctly, this is the opposite of what you're supposed to do. The remains are already in a peaceful cemetery, and you want to dig them up and put them back in the sunken wreck of the ship where they died a violent, terrifying death?

Pretty sure that's how you get angry sailor ghosts.


I already had you favorited, and this comment kicked you up into the highest level.
 
2021-06-14 3:41:22 PM  

Koodz: Deathfrogg: This rubs me the wrong way, mostly because I am a little superstitious about graves, in that once they're established they shouldn't be messed around with. There are thousands of little cemeteries around the country, especially in the New England/East coast states where there are private properties that had been subdivided over the years. The little graveyards are everywhere, people tended to bury their relatives on their own farms and estates and a huge number of those are lost to time completely. New York City, Baltimore, Philadelphia etc are all built on old, forgotten graveyards that were dug up, bulldozed flat and built on without anyone knowing they were even there.

So once this planet is all graves we just find a new one?


At a certain point in a temperate, damp climate all remains pretty much become topsoil in any case.
 
2021-06-14 3:44:45 PM  
Wait. Punchbowl Cemetery?
 
2021-06-14 3:52:57 PM  
Deathfrogg:

It's not impossible, but I highly doubt anyone aboard the Arizona was hoping to be gnawed on by crabs under however many feet of seawater in perpetuity.

Exhume the bones and put them in a crypt, if there are even bones still.  The titanic only has shoes left where people used to be cuz everything else done got et.

Also, the Arizona itself needs to be drained of fuel safely.  That's non-negotiable.  So we can move the bones, or drill through them.Moving is much less disrespectful. last thing we need is a flying dutchman with ww2 battleship offense capabilities.
 
2021-06-14 3:55:49 PM  

Internet Meme Rogers: Wait. Punchbowl Cemetery?


It's a military cemetery in a round, volcanic crater on Oahu near Honolulu. The Cemetery of the Pacific. Very beautiful & very moving.
 
2021-06-14 3:57:30 PM  

Internet Meme Rogers: Wait. Punchbowl Cemetery?


The official name is the National Memorial Cemetery of the Pacific, but everyone calls it the Punchbowl Cemetery because it's located in a volcanic crater that's known locally as the Punchbowl Crater because of its shape.  The crater got its nickname decades before the cemetery was established there.
 
2021-06-14 4:03:40 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-06-14 4:10:14 PM  

roddack: MIRV888: roddack: Deathfrogg: For the price of a single F-35 this country could put every single homeless person in the country into a fairly well-equipped single bedroom apartment.

~550,000 homeless
F-35 ~$80M

Total per homeless $145.45

IDK what single bedrooms furnished go for where you live at but it sure is shiat is not that cheap.

So like 10 of them?
You're bad at arguing.

I am not arguing we can't solve the problem. I am just point out how wrong your math was, even 10 covers the cost, at best, for a single month. The total fleet is expected to be 2456 by 2044. Your scale would basically require the entire program be scrapped for it to work long term.

Again not saying we can't fix the problem. Your suggestion is just bad.


Fair enough on the math.  My argument is that we could scrap the F-35 program, help the entire population of homeless in the entire country, and the MIRV'ed ballistic missiles would still fork just fine.  So would the fleets of older jets.  It's a question of priorities, and the moral stance that the poors deserve what they get.  Which is verbatim the opposite of what Christ said repeatedly.
Money talks and bullshiat sleeps under an overpass.
 
2021-06-14 4:29:00 PM  

Rent Party: roddack: Deathfrogg: For the price of a single F-35 this country could put every single homeless person in the country into a fairly well-equipped single bedroom apartment.

~550,000 homeless
F-35 ~$80M

Total per homeless $145.45

IDK what single bedrooms furnished go for where you live at but it sure is shiat is not that cheap.

Not that it changes your argument much, but the $80M figure is DoD math.  If you actually want to fly the plane, the price tag is more in the $110M to $140M range.

https://www.pogo.org/analysis/2020/10/​selective-arithmetic-to-hide-the-f-35s​-true-costs/


Plus they'll throw in the undercoat.
 
2021-06-14 4:38:09 PM  

MIRV888: roddack: Deathfrogg: For the price of a single F-35 this country could put every single homeless person in the country into a fairly well-equipped single bedroom apartment.

~550,000 homeless
F-35 ~$80M

Total per homeless $145.45

IDK what single bedrooms furnished go for where you live at but it sure is shiat is not that cheap.

So like 10 of them?
You're bad at arguing.


No no no. Not all the homeless people. Just the ones in his town.
 
2021-06-14 4:39:08 PM  

roddack: Deathfrogg: For the price of a single F-35 this country could put every single homeless person in the country into a fairly well-equipped single bedroom apartment.

~550,000 homeless
F-35 ~$80M

Total per homeless $145.45

IDK what single bedrooms furnished go for where you live at but it sure is shiat is not that cheap.


What if we converted F-35s to run on homeless people? That would solve both problems.
 
2021-06-14 4:41:50 PM  

Turbo Cojones: Seems like a big fuss over little pieces.  There is a very good reason they were not identified.


Before this is done an investigative reporter needs to dig deep to make damn sure there's no ulterior motive for clearing out this cemetery.
 
2021-06-14 4:43:34 PM  
Inter them with their shipmates. It is where they belong instead of in some graveyard.

/My opinion and I am sticking to it.
 
2021-06-14 4:47:12 PM  

roddack: Your scale would basically require the entire program be scrapped for it to work long term.


I support this.
 
2021-06-14 4:55:59 PM  
ooooh a thread where we twist f-35 numbers for our own personal goal?


s3.amazonaws.comView Full Size


This thread - Me.
 
2021-06-14 5:00:13 PM  

Great_Milenko: Turbo Cojones: Seems like a big fuss over little pieces.  There is a very good reason they were not identified.

Before this is done an investigative reporter needs to dig deep to make damn sure there's no ulterior motive for clearing out this cemetery.


There is over 50,000 burials at the Punchbowl.  I doubt the 88 Arizona dead are part of some nefarious plot.

Being buried with your fellow shipmates at the Arizona, over 900 of them.   Survivors also choose, some do, to be interred at the ship as well when they pass away.  See the above video.  The Arizona is one big war grave.
 
2021-06-14 5:01:37 PM  

leeksfromchichis: It's not impossible, but I highly doubt anyone aboard the Arizona was hoping to be gnawed on by crabs under however many feet of seawater in perpetuity.


The Navy does burial at sea for a whole lot of people all the time.  I've been part of dropping a couple of corpses off the hangar deck of an aircraft carrier.

It is highly probable that Arizona sailors intended to be gnawed on by crabs in perpetuity.
 
2021-06-14 5:03:35 PM  

MIRV888: roddack: MIRV888: roddack: Deathfrogg: For the price of a single F-35 this country could put every single homeless person in the country into a fairly well-equipped single bedroom apartment.

~550,000 homeless
F-35 ~$80M

Total per homeless $145.45

IDK what single bedrooms furnished go for where you live at but it sure is shiat is not that cheap.

So like 10 of them?
You're bad at arguing.

I am not arguing we can't solve the problem. I am just point out how wrong your math was, even 10 covers the cost, at best, for a single month. The total fleet is expected to be 2456 by 2044. Your scale would basically require the entire program be scrapped for it to work long term.

Again not saying we can't fix the problem. Your suggestion is just bad.

Fair enough on the math.  My argument is that we could scrap the F-35 program, help the entire population of homeless in the entire country, and the MIRV'ed ballistic missiles would still fork just fine.  So would the fleets of older jets.  It's a question of priorities, and the moral stance that the poors deserve what they get.  Which is verbatim the opposite of what Christ said repeatedly.
Money talks and bullshiat sleeps under an overpass.


I don't disagree with any of that, either.
 
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