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(Guardian)   How do you do, fellow socialists?   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Silly, Election, United States, series of deceptive Facebook ads, Elections in the United States, conservative marketing firm Rally Forge, Point USA, Election Day, Turning Point Action  
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3470 clicks; posted to Politics » on 11 Jun 2021 at 3:54 PM (7 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



141 Comments     (+0 »)
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2021-06-11 12:05:06 PM  
What are their Fark handles?

FarkIntellectualsTM (FIs): We want Democratic Socialism!
Me: So, Sweden?
FIs: Exactly!
Me: Ok I guess.  So you're ready to pay 57% income tax on earnings over $64k plus a 25% VAT plus property taxes?
FIs: No, not like that!
Me: So maybe Germany?
FIs: Yes Germany!
Me: So 45% on income over $68k if you live west of The Wall, plus 15% in healthcare and pension expenses plus VAT plus property taxes?
FIs: Not like that either!
Me: So what do you want?
FIs: We just wanna tax the 1% at 100% then all our problems will be solved; I shouldn't have to pay any more because ReaSOnS!
Me: China doesn't even do that and they're actually communists
FIs:  SekRUt ReThuG!
 
2021-06-11 3:56:23 PM  
 . . .and then I said to the socialist, "your iPhone was made by capitalism."  And this blew his mind, because this was a real conversation I had with actual people.
 
2021-06-11 3:57:33 PM  

Byno: What are their Fark handles?

Me: ReThuG!


Go home and get your shine box, Boris.
 
2021-06-11 3:57:47 PM  
Russia did that to both sides leading up to the 2016 election.  And since it worked so well, I assume they continue doing so today.
 
2021-06-11 3:58:33 PM  
Is this really a surprise to anyone who's been paying attention?
 
2021-06-11 4:00:55 PM  

LL316: Russia did that to both sides leading up to the 2016 election.  And since it worked so well, I assume they continue doing so today.


It worked so well that they got Trump elected in 2016 and again in 2020, obviously.
 
2021-06-11 4:01:26 PM  
Except we're not morons, so you know....
 
2021-06-11 4:02:47 PM  

LL316: Russia did that to both sides leading up to the 2016 election.  And since it worked so well, I assume they continue doing so today.


Yeah, a lot of the fake news mills run left/right versions of the same fake news, just to get click money from both sides. I've read numerous articles about it.

It wouldn't surprise me at all if a grifting organization was fundraising from both sides. Why limit your grift to just half the country?

So, this probably happens more often than we think it does.
 
2021-06-11 4:04:02 PM  

WelldeadLink: LL316: Russia did that to both sides leading up to the 2016 election.  And since it worked so well, I assume they continue doing so today.

It worked so well that they got Trump elected in 2016 and again in 2020, obviously.


They don't care who's elected.  They only care about chaos.  I'm not sure if you've been paying attention the last 2 years, but the chaos business is doing very well for itself.
 
2021-06-11 4:04:17 PM  
Greetings, fellow socialists! Socialist fellas!

media3.giphy.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-11 4:04:25 PM  

Byno: What are their Fark handles?

FarkIntellectualsTM (FIs): We want Democratic Socialism!
Me: So, Sweden?
FIs: Exactly!
Me: Ok I guess.  So you're ready to pay 57% income tax on earnings over $64k plus a 25% VAT plus property taxes?
FIs: No, not like that!
Me: So maybe Germany?
FIs: Yes Germany!
Me: So 45% on income over $68k if you live west of The Wall, plus 15% in healthcare and pension expenses plus VAT plus property taxes?
FIs: Not like that either!
Me: So what do you want?
FIs: We just wanna tax the 1% at 100% then all our problems will be solved; I shouldn't have to pay any more because ReaSOnS!
Me: China doesn't even do that and they're actually communists
FIs:  SekRUt ReThuG!


Strawman + Burden of Proof
 
2021-06-11 4:04:39 PM  
Why aren't we punching fascists?
 
2021-06-11 4:04:57 PM  
You mean that some people who make valid criticisms are just there to nudge 1% of voters not to vote for democrats because that is often the margin in national races?
 
2021-06-11 4:06:34 PM  

Ragin' Asian: Why aren't we punching fascists?


Because it hurts their pwecious widdle fee fees when you hit back. And as we all know, those are sacrosanct.
 
2021-06-11 4:06:43 PM  
The rhetoric doesn't seem that different from real comments I've seen on Fark.

/Unless . . . unless those weren't real comments!
//Could Fark have been infiltrated, too?!!
 
2021-06-11 4:09:18 PM  

special20: Byno: What are their Fark handles?

Me: ReThuG!

Go home and get your shine box, Boris.


How's the borscht taste Vlad?

/amidoingitrite?
 
2021-06-11 4:09:57 PM  
In all seriousness, this was a dumb waste.  If they actually knew anything about Democrats, they'd know that we fight amongst ourselves all the time.   That's what makes someone a Democrat.  This is like someone throwing a firecracker into a forest fire and then trying to take credit for all the chaos afterward.
 
2021-06-11 4:10:22 PM  
Notice they were pushing the Green Party. I already mentioned this in the Sinema thread - the GOP regularly bankrolls Green Party candidates in order to help split the D vote.

The Green Party is a scam. They're effectively a GOP initiative to help them win elections.
 
2021-06-11 4:13:50 PM  

Chthonic Echoes: The rhetoric doesn't seem that different from real comments I've seen on Fark.

/Unless . . . unless those weren't real comments!
//Could Fark have been infiltrated, too?!!


You jest, but around election time there's a bunch of dormant accounts that log in to make the same posts and repeat the same talking points. Not all of them are just people logging in after a long time, it does seem to me like coordinated activity - and others have noticed too. Astroturfing is a more endemic issue than most people realize. The 2016 election season was the worst for it here I've seen yet. 2020 didn't seem to have as many, for some reason.
 
2021-06-11 4:14:08 PM  
I have HAD IT with the motherfuqing UGLY people in MY City
 
2021-06-11 4:14:15 PM  
Only an authoritarian would think green party candidates are anywhere near "left"

Like right wing libertarians pretending to be a friendlier,
More intellectual alternative to the GOP.
 
2021-06-11 4:14:21 PM  

Dhusk: In all seriousness, this was a dumb waste.  If they actually knew anything about Democrats, they'd know that we fight amongst ourselves all the time.   That's what makes someone a Democrat.  This is like someone throwing a firecracker into a forest fire and then trying to take credit for all the chaos afterward.


This can't be true.  I've been told - just today - that I support the Laffer Curve, trickle down economics, Putin, and Nickelback for pointing out that an increase in corporate taxes will get passed along to consumers in some fraction (though how much, dunno).

/of course, all of the people making these accusations can barely read, so, there's that
 
2021-06-11 4:14:22 PM  
That's exactly what they've been accusing others of doing.  How weird.

Wait, no, not weird.  What's the other one?
 
2021-06-11 4:15:22 PM  

mongbiohazard: Notice they were pushing the Green Party. I already mentioned this in the Sinema thread - the GOP regularly bankrolls Green Party candidates in order to help split the D vote.

The Green Party is a scam. They're effectively a GOP initiative to help them win elections.



What's funny is Green party candidates like Jill Stein openly snuck in right wing position points about social issues, such as transgender rights into their campaigns in 2020.
 
2021-06-11 4:15:28 PM  

DocUi: special20: Byno: What are their Fark handles?

Me: ReThuG!

Go home and get your shine box, Boris.

How's the borscht taste Vlad?

/amidoingitrite?


I'm not your друг, приятель!
 
2021-06-11 4:16:03 PM  

Ragin' Asian: Why aren't we punching fascists?


It's so 40's.  Went out with belt onions.
 
2021-06-11 4:17:12 PM  

Byno: What are their Fark handles?

FarkIntellectualsTM (FIs): We want Democratic Socialism!
Me: So, Sweden?
FIs: Exactly!
Me: Ok I guess.  So you're ready to pay 57% income tax on earnings over $64k plus a 25% VAT plus property taxes?
FIs: No, not like that!
Me: So maybe Germany?
FIs: Yes Germany!
Me: So 45% on income over $68k if you live west of The Wall, plus 15% in healthcare and pension expenses plus VAT plus property taxes?
FIs: Not like that either!
Me: So what do you want?
FIs: We just wanna tax the 1% at 100% then all our problems will be solved; I shouldn't have to pay any more because ReaSOnS!
Me: China doesn't even do that and they're actually communists
FIs:  SekRUt ReThuG!


https://jacobinmag.com/2019/01/ocasio​-​cortez-taxes-rich-sweden

Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez's suggested 70 percent marginal tax rate has conservatives and centrists freaking out. But Sweden shows that soaking the rich is the smart thing to do.

Americans pay federal income tax + state income tax + ssi tax + medicare/medicaid tax + sales tax + property tax + gasoline taxes + health care  + college tuition

Play rhetorical whack-a-mole all you want, but Sweden has a higher standard of living than here in the US. And this is the kicker: more Swedes from the lower economic quintiles (even the bottom) rise to the higher quintiles (including the top) than in the US. Social mobility is easier in Sweden than here.
 
2021-06-11 4:17:18 PM  
The one rule of FB: don't interact with FB users. Period.

The ideal would be to delete it from all devices.
 
2021-06-11 4:17:22 PM  
Revealed: rightwing firm posed as leftist group on Facebook to divide Democrats

Wow cool.  Which Farkers belong to that organization, I wonder?
 
2021-06-11 4:17:37 PM  
It was blindingly obvious - yet so many people I know were spouting their bullscheisse.
 
2021-06-11 4:17:43 PM  

WelldeadLink: LL316: Russia did that to both sides leading up to the 2016 election.  And since it worked so well, I assume they continue doing so today.

It worked so well that they got Trump elected in 2016 and again in 2020, obviously.


Because everybody knows the singlemost effective mode of advertising/mind-control is goddamn Facebook ads.  They affect society as a whole, they're so good.  Just astonishing what kind of influence they have.  I'm thinking of all my favourite Facebook ads right now.
 
2021-06-11 4:18:04 PM  

WelldeadLink: LL316: Russia did that to both sides leading up to the 2016 election.  And since it worked so well, I assume they continue doing so today.

It worked so well that they got Trump elected in 2016 and again in 2020, obviously.


Rather, it worked so well in 2020 that had Americans not been so incensed to be rid of him and cranked up the turnout, he would have won again. AND people are still arguing that he did, and are holding recounts and making up bullshiat... But you already knew that when you chose that disingenuous line.
 
2021-06-11 4:18:43 PM  

Byno: Dhusk: In all seriousness, this was a dumb waste.  If they actually knew anything about Democrats, they'd know that we fight amongst ourselves all the time.   That's what makes someone a Democrat.  This is like someone throwing a firecracker into a forest fire and then trying to take credit for all the chaos afterward.

This can't be true.  I've been told - just today - that I support the Laffer Curve, trickle down economics, Putin, and Nickelback for pointing out that an increase in corporate taxes will get passed along to consumers in some fraction (though how much, dunno).

/of course, all of the people making these accusations can barely read, so, there's that


And committing a lot of logical fallacies.  I also accused you of that.
 
2021-06-11 4:18:51 PM  

Byno: What are their Fark handles?

FarkIntellectualsTM (FIs): We want Democratic Socialism!
Me: So, Sweden?
FIs: Exactly!
Me: Ok I guess.  So you're ready to pay 57% income tax on earnings over $64k plus a 25% VAT plus property taxes?
FIs: No, not like that!
Me: So maybe Germany?
FIs: Yes Germany!
Me: So 45% on income over $68k if you live west of The Wall, plus 15% in healthcare and pension expenses plus VAT plus property taxes?
FIs: Not like that either!
Me: So what do you want?
FIs: We just wanna tax the 1% at 100% then all our problems will be solved; I shouldn't have to pay any more because ReaSOnS!
Me: China doesn't even do that and they're actually communists
FIs:  SekRUt ReThuG!


If paying more in taxes upfront saved me A lot more down the road in terms of medical costs and cost-of-living, I wouldn't complain about it. Which is exactly like what is happening in the Nordic countries.

Even countries that don't use Socialism in terms of financial policies but have universal healthcare have a greater protection of their ability to Socioeconomically motivate and maintain.

In America, we risk being homeless for one unexpected hospital bill.
 
2021-06-11 4:18:52 PM  

Dhusk: In all seriousness, this was a dumb waste.  If they actually knew anything about Democrats, they'd know that we fight amongst ourselves all the time.   That's what makes someone a Democrat.  This is like someone throwing a firecracker into a forest fire and then trying to take credit for all the chaos afterward.


That's because the Democratic Party is far more diverse and inclusive than the Republican Party.  Diverse and inclusive groups tend to spend more time debating, and tend to have lower confidence in the decisions they make, but their decisions tend to be much better than those of less diverse groups.
 
2021-06-11 4:18:53 PM  
These chucklefarks have zero honor, whatsoever.

Can't win fairly, ever.
 
2021-06-11 4:20:23 PM  

Ragin' Asian: Why aren't we punching fascists?


Answer:

1. Kook-left Communists pretend that anyone slightly more moderate than Che is a "fascist".

2. Democrats notice that both populist fascists and populist kook-left communists have very similar characteristics: authoritarian streaks a mile wide, blame shifting, utopian hand-waving, magical thinking, conspiracy theorizing, dismissive attitudes about the complexities of governing, a love expressing juvenile alianaton, and a penchant for more or less constant tantrum throwing and gesture politics.

That's why.
 
2021-06-11 4:20:26 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-06-11 4:20:28 PM  
At least no one on Fark would pretend to be a progressive to drive a conservative agenda, right?

right?
 
2021-06-11 4:21:14 PM  

Byno: What are their Fark handles?

FarkIntellectualsTM (FIs): We want Democratic Socialism!
Me: So, Sweden?
FIs: Exactly!
Me: Ok I guess.  So you're ready to pay 57% income tax on earnings over $64k plus a 25% VAT plus property taxes?
FIs: No, not like that!
Me: So maybe Germany?
FIs: Yes Germany!
Me: So 45% on income over $68k if you live west of The Wall, plus 15% in healthcare and pension expenses plus VAT plus property taxes?
FIs: Not like that either!
Me: So what do you want?
FIs: We just wanna tax the 1% at 100% then all our problems will be solved; I shouldn't have to pay any more because ReaSOnS!
Me: China doesn't even do that and they're actually communists
FIs:  SekRUt ReThuG!


Don't get that strawman too close to the fire.

I'm okay if EVERYONE pays that tax. It is ridiculous to hear that billionaires paid no federal income taxes. I'm also okay with a universal basic income. No one should be involuntarily homeless.
 
2021-06-11 4:22:57 PM  

hobnail: At least no one on Fark would pretend to be a progressive to drive a conservative agenda, right?

right?


No, every single person on Fark who calls themselves a progressive is a conservative or working for the Kremlin.  Probably both.

They only pretend to have progressive beliefs, in reality they are here on a rinky-dink website trying to DESTROY AMERICA.
 
2021-06-11 4:24:01 PM  

theteacher: Don't get that strawman too close to the fire.

I'm okay if EVERYONE pays that tax. It is ridiculous to hear that billionaires paid no federal income taxes. I'm also okay with a universal basic income. No one should be involuntarily homeless.


If you think this is a strawman you must have avoided all the UBI/M4A/free college education threads on the site.  Like, all of them.  All.

Nobody should be homeless. Nobody should be bankrupted by an unexpected medical bill.  Donald Trump shouldn't have paid almost zero taxes.

It's just, it's almost like there's a lot of farkers who would be affected by mixed market economics who are all for things till they realize they'd be on the hook for those things.  And that's the point.
 
2021-06-11 4:25:34 PM  

Byno: What are their Fark handles?

FarkIntellectualsTM (FIs): We want Democratic Socialism!
Me: So, Sweden?
FIs: Exactly!
Me: Ok I guess.  So you're ready to pay 57% income tax on earnings over $64k plus a 25% VAT plus property taxes?
FIs: No, not like that!
Me: So maybe Germany?
FIs: Yes Germany!
Me: So 45% on income over $68k if you live west of The Wall, plus 15% in healthcare and pension expenses plus VAT plus property taxes?
FIs: Not like that either!
Me: So what do you want?
FIs: We just wanna tax the 1% at 100% then all our problems will be solved; I shouldn't have to pay any more because ReaSOnS!
Me: China doesn't even do that and they're actually communists
FIs:  SekRUt ReThuG!


I would happily pay those taxes if it meant that it would cover healthcare for me and my family, undergraduate tuition at a State university for my kids, a living stipend in my old age, quality early childhood care and education for my grandkids, paid parental leave, quality care for my disabled niece, and all the other things that me and my family pay handsomely for-AFTER I have already paid more in Federal taxes than the average US income.

So, yes-please tax the shiat of me as if I lived in Sweden or Germany, as long as I get all the same benefits. It would save me tens of thousands of dollars a year AND improve the quality of life for me and mine.
 
2021-06-11 4:26:50 PM  

hardinparamedic: mongbiohazard: Notice they were pushing the Green Party. I already mentioned this in the Sinema thread - the GOP regularly bankrolls Green Party candidates in order to help split the D vote.

The Green Party is a scam. They're effectively a GOP initiative to help them win elections.


What's funny is Green party candidates like Jill Stein openly snuck in right wing position points about social issues, such as transgender rights into their campaigns in 2020.


Which makes perfect sense when we realize the Green Party is basically a GOP front. And they know what they're doing. The people running the "Green Party" know exactly how much money their candidates get quietly from GOP figures and groups.
 
2021-06-11 4:28:01 PM  
Every time foreign interlopers are found to be spending money, they're doing a tiny amount of things that we were already doing ourselves at much greater volumes.
 
2021-06-11 4:28:12 PM  
Oh
Another Russia Russia Russia type conspiracy for the conservative conspiracy nutters.

It is never their fault when the lose.
 
2021-06-11 4:28:40 PM  
Huh, never heard of these guys. I don't really object to any of their anti-capitalist messaging, other than their idiotic "so therefore vote Green" conclusion.
 
2021-06-11 4:33:51 PM  

Byno: Me: Ok I guess.  So you're ready to pay 57% income tax on earnings over $64k plus a 25% VAT plus property taxes?


That 57% tax includes healthcare costs, which in the USA are generally hidden to the end user thanks to a combination of employer contributions, point of use fees, and deductibles, which make the impact on your paystub seem smaller.

I just did a quick comparison on pay and deductions between Britain and USA since I have some of each from the past year. In the UK, my combined taxes (inclusive of NHS) and national insurance was 31% of gross pay. In the USA, my deductions for taxes, healthcare, and social security are 28% of gross pay. And that doesn't take into account deductible or max out of pocket.

So it's not wildly different in terms of net costs to the worker, and that was as a Top 1%er in the UK and Top 5%er in the USA. And the USA has both income taxes and sales tax, the former of which is far higher than what is paid in the UK.
 
2021-06-11 4:34:28 PM  

hobnail: At least no one on Fark would pretend to be a progressive to drive a conservative agenda, right?

right?

pre

tend?
 
2021-06-11 4:35:12 PM  
farks broken

/have that removed
 
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