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(The Hollywood Reporter)   Raiders of the Lost Ark turns 40. Indiana Jones still has no effect on the outcome of the plot   (hollywoodreporter.com) divider line
    More: Vintage, Raiders of the Lost Ark, Indiana Jones, Indiana Jones and the Kingdom of the Crystal Skull, Karen Allen, iconic Marion Ravenwood, Film Institute, beloved character, much power  
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562 clicks; posted to Entertainment » on 11 Jun 2021 at 9:35 AM (5 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



103 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest


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5 days ago  
I was always impressed how cheap special effects can look more real than the expensive ones today.
 
5 days ago  
Indiana Jones and the Harrison Ford is Really, Really Old

Get it?

It's funny because Harrison Ford is really, really old.
 
5 days ago  
How does Indy not affect the outcome? Nazis only find the headpiece by following him to Nepal. Even if you assume they find Marion and the ark without Indy, the Americans only find the ark at the end because Indy and Marion are on the island.

The outcome is entirely different is Indy isn't there.

/next tell me how every Seinfeld episode doesn't happen if they have smart phones
 
5 days ago  
I watched that in the theater as a kid.  Maybe 2nd grade?  I remember being totally terrified at the bit where the spirit comes out of the ark and then her angelic face changes into a demon... probably my first cinematic jump scare.  And then I proceeded to watch in even more terror as the Nazis started melting.

That evening I remember I had a not so comfy sleep filled with nightmares about snakes.
 
5 days ago  
Apparently there is a lot of scenes that were left on the cutting room floor as it made Indy look like a major poon hound, including backstory on how Indy and Marion first met when she was a child. In the end, Spielberg and Lucas decided to make him a do-right kind of guy with regards to artifacts and museums and making sure Nazis didn't steal the ark.
 
5 days ago  
Actually, he made the outcome worse. The Nazis had intended to bring the ark to Hitler to let him personally open it, until Indy convinced them otherwise.
 
5 days ago  

snowybunting: Apparently there is a lot of scenes that were left on the cutting room floor as it made Indy look like a major poon hound, including backstory on how Indy and Marion first met when she was a child. In the end, Spielberg and Lucas decided to make him a do-right kind of guy with regards to artifacts and museums and making sure Nazis didn't steal the ark.


Yeah, that is still in there.
 
5 days ago  
I remember going to see this movie with my dad as a kid when i was 8.  Looking back i did not realize how tight the household budget was, so going to see this movie, on a whim with, my dad on a Thursday night was a real treat.

I still remember talking about the gov't warehouse ending the whole way home.  It's one of the few times i can remember of having a shared sense of wonder and excitement with my dad.
 
5 days ago  
I made a similar comment in the He-Man thread.......
You're watching a a movie about a college professor turned grave robber (who uses a bullwhip with 1,001 uses) hunting for a magical ark. Suspend disbelief and enjoy an awesome movie.  It's one of my favorites.
/yes, if they took the ark to Hitler, Hitler would have opened it and died
//but this wouldn't have killed Hitler in real life so who cares?
 
5 days ago  

Funbags: Actually, he made the outcome worse. The Nazis had intended to bring the ark to Hitler to let him personally open it, until Indy convinced them otherwise.


I believe it was Belloq's idea to open the ark.

"Would you be more comfortable opening the Ark in Berlin... for your Fuhrer? Finding out only then if the sacred pieces of the Covenant are inside? Knowing only then, whether you have accomplished your mission and obtained the one, true Ark."
 
5 days ago  

Funbags: Actually, he made the outcome worse. The Nazis had intended to bring the ark to Hitler to let him personally open it, until Indy convinced them otherwise.


How did Indy convince them otherwise?  That was all on Belloq.
 
5 days ago  
I watched a "making of" show about Raiders not long after it came out, and now I can't Nazi the pole that sticks out of the bottom of the truck to make it ride on two wheels.
 
5 days ago  

snowybunting: Apparently there is a lot of scenes that were left on the cutting room floor as it made Indy look like a major poon hound, including backstory on how Indy and Marion first met when she was a child.


Did you always go out for popcorn right when Indy shows up at Marion's bar in Nepal? 'Cuz apparently you kept missing this exchange.

Marion: I learned to hate you in the last ten years.
Indiana: I never meant to hurt you.
Marion: I was a child. I was in love. It was wrong and you knew it.
Indiana: You knew what you were doing.
Marion: Now I do. This is my place. Get out!
Indiana: I did what I did. I don't expect you to be happy about it, but maybe we can do each other some good.
 
5 days ago  

mcmnky: How does Indy not affect the outcome? Nazis only find the headpiece by following him to Nepal. Even if you assume they find Marion and the ark without Indy, the Americans only find the ark at the end because Indy and Marion are on the island.


They don't NEED the headpiece.  They HAVE the map room already!  The headpiece makes the search a little quicker for the Nazis but not necessary!  They already know the entire layout of the city!

So they would have found the Ark eventually.  And if the American's didn't find the ark, the Nazi's would have.  they would have said "Hey, we never heard from Toht and Dietrich!  Send another troop to that island!"

Then they would have gotten the ark, opened it for Hitler and melted his face.

Best case scenario, Indy is responsible for World War 2
 
5 days ago  

gunga galunga: snowybunting: Apparently there is a lot of scenes that were left on the cutting room floor as it made Indy look like a major poon hound, including backstory on how Indy and Marion first met when she was a child.

Did you always go out for popcorn right when Indy shows up at Marion's bar in Nepal? 'Cuz apparently you kept missing this exchange.

Marion: I learned to hate you in the last ten years.
Indiana: I never meant to hurt you.
Marion: I was a child. I was in love. It was wrong and you knew it.
Indiana: You knew what you were doing.
Marion: Now I do. This is my place. Get out!
Indiana: I did what I did. I don't expect you to be happy about it, but maybe we can do each other some good.


Apparently I did, or it flew over my head as a kid watching it in theater and later on VHS.

Only as an adult watching it, I was like WTF?  Indy as creepy pedo prof?
 
5 days ago  

Spego: Funbags: Actually, he made the outcome worse. The Nazis had intended to bring the ark to Hitler to let him personally open it, until Indy convinced them otherwise.

I believe it was Belloq's idea to open the ark.

"Would you be more comfortable opening the Ark in Berlin... for your Fuhrer? Finding out only then if the sacred pieces of the Covenant are inside? Knowing only then, whether you have accomplished your mission and obtained the one, true Ark."


Mulchpuppy: Funbags: Actually, he made the outcome worse. The Nazis had intended to bring the ark to Hitler to let him personally open it, until Indy convinced them otherwise.

How did Indy convince them otherwise?  That was all on Belloq.


OK then, the complete opposite of what I said.
 
5 days ago  

buntz: mcmnky: How does Indy not affect the outcome? Nazis only find the headpiece by following him to Nepal. Even if you assume they find Marion and the ark without Indy, the Americans only find the ark at the end because Indy and Marion are on the island.

They don't NEED the headpiece.  They HAVE the map room already!  The headpiece makes the search a little quicker for the Nazis but not necessary!  They already know the entire layout of the city!

So they would have found the Ark eventually.  And if the American's didn't find the ark, the Nazi's would have.  they would have said "Hey, we never heard from Toht and Dietrich!  Send another troop to that island!"

Then they would have gotten the ark, opened it for Hitler and melted his face.

Best case scenario, Indy is responsible for World War 2


Except it was Belloq who insisted on opening the ark on the island first despite Dietrich's misgivings over "'zis Jewish ritual". Belloq convinces him by telling him it was best to make sure they have found the true ark before delivering it to Hitler and risk disappointing him.

Indy's absence wouldn't have changed that.
 
5 days ago  
gunga galunga: Indy's absence wouldn't have changed that.

Well, semantics.  If Indy wasn't there, it would have either been opened on the island which would cause a delay in the Nazis taking it to Hitler, or taken directly to Hitler to be opened.

Indy had no effect on where it would be opened.

He had no effect on it being found.  Other than them finding it sooner.  He HELPED them.
 
5 days ago  

SirEattonHogg: gunga galunga: snowybunting: Apparently there is a lot of scenes that were left on the cutting room floor as it made Indy look like a major poon hound, including backstory on how Indy and Marion first met when she was a child.

Did you always go out for popcorn right when Indy shows up at Marion's bar in Nepal? 'Cuz apparently you kept missing this exchange.

Marion: I learned to hate you in the last ten years.
Indiana: I never meant to hurt you.
Marion: I was a child. I was in love. It was wrong and you knew it.
Indiana: You knew what you were doing.
Marion: Now I do. This is my place. Get out!
Indiana: I did what I did. I don't expect you to be happy about it, but maybe we can do each other some good.

Apparently I did, or it flew over my head as a kid watching it in theater and later on VHS.

Only as an adult watching it, I was like WTF?  Indy as creepy pedo prof?



Yeah, I always took that "child" thing as she was 18 or 20 or something, not a literal child. Also some parts left on the cutting room floor had Indy banging one of his students, I'm not so sure how all that would fly today.
 
5 days ago  

mcmnky: How does Indy not affect the outcome? Nazis only find the headpiece by following him to Nepal. Even if you assume they find Marion and the ark without Indy, the Americans only find the ark at the end because Indy and Marion are on the island.

The outcome is entirely different is Indy isn't there.

/next tell me how every Seinfeld episode doesn't happen if they have smart phones


Nope. The Nazi was already on the plane to Tibet when Indy gets on it. The Nazi already found out where Ravenwood was when he came to the US and he just happened to be on the same plane. So if Indy said 'no way, I don't want to find the Ark of the Covenant' the Nazi would have gone on to Tibet on his own and bought the headpiece off of the desperate barmaid. Also, it was only a matter of time before the Nazis found the Ark in the desert.

Indy's presence assures that the Americans get the Ark in the end. If not for him it would have been opened in Berlin after being airlifted there, probably not in front of Hitler though.
 
5 days ago  
The only thing that Indy did in four movies that made him necessary was rescuing the kids from Temple of Doom

We've exhausted the fact that he wasn't necessary in Raiders.

Pretty much the same story with the Last Crusade, he made the search quicker, but the Nazis would have found the canyon.

The Nazis would have eventually gotten through the traps.
The Nazis eventually would have drunk from each cup until finding the right one. And the Nazis still would have been defeated by trying to cross the seal, or at least the cup would've had no effect once they made it across the seal without the building collapsing in on them.

I'm not even sure what he was doing in Crystal Skull, but the Russians did exactly what they wanted to, with or without his help. And they all got sucked into a different dimension, and he didn't cause or prevent that!
 
5 days ago  

mcmnky: /next tell me how every Seinfeld episode doesn't happen if they have smart phones


I mean, not every episode. "The Contest" and plot line where Jerry starts sleeping with his housekeeper would be basically the same. Just like 70% of the episodes would be gone.
 
5 days ago  

snowybunting: SirEattonHogg: gunga galunga: snowybunting: Apparently there is a lot of scenes that were left on the cutting room floor as it made Indy look like a major poon hound, including backstory on how Indy and Marion first met when she was a child.

Did you always go out for popcorn right when Indy shows up at Marion's bar in Nepal? 'Cuz apparently you kept missing this exchange.

Marion: I learned to hate you in the last ten years.
Indiana: I never meant to hurt you.
Marion: I was a child. I was in love. It was wrong and you knew it.
Indiana: You knew what you were doing.
Marion: Now I do. This is my place. Get out!
Indiana: I did what I did. I don't expect you to be happy about it, but maybe we can do each other some good.

Apparently I did, or it flew over my head as a kid watching it in theater and later on VHS.

Only as an adult watching it, I was like WTF?  Indy as creepy pedo prof?


Yeah, I always took that "child" thing as she was 18 or 20 or something, not a literal child. Also some parts left on the cutting room floor had Indy banging one of his students, I'm not so sure how all that would fly today.


The screenplay specifically describes her as being 25-years-old. However, Karen Allen was 29-years-old at the time of filming. Make of that what you will.

Personally, I don't see that conversation going the way it did if she had been 18 or 19 at the time.
 
5 days ago  
*Looks over at Mrs. Xerox and smiles*

Thanks for the reminder, subby.  ;-)

/Our first date movie
 
5 days ago  

Martian_Astronomer: mcmnky: /next tell me how every Seinfeld episode doesn't happen if they have smart phones

I mean, not every episode. "The Contest" and plot line where Jerry starts sleeping with his housekeeper would be basically the same. Just like 70% of the episodes would be gone.


George would have fapped to some porn on his phone instead of Glamour magazine.
 
5 days ago  

Funbags: Actually, he made the outcome worse. The Nazis had intended to bring the ark to Hitler to let him personally open it, until Indy convinced them otherwise.


Are you sure that is a worse outcome?  Hitler made a vast amount of mistakes that arguably shortened the war and aided an allied victory.  Without Hitler in leadership, the funding of expensive but ultimately strategic failures like the V2, and strategic/battlefield decisions such as switching to bombing cities in the Battle of Britian or defending Calias and holding reserves for the "real invasion" instead of surging toward Normandy, may not have been as favorable. These poor decisions may not have been enough to turn the tide of war, but more practical decisions could have lengthened the time it took and increased the casualties suffered by the Allies.
 
5 days ago  

Daedalus27: Funbags: Actually, he made the outcome worse. The Nazis had intended to bring the ark to Hitler to let him personally open it, until Indy convinced them otherwise.

Are you sure that is a worse outcome?  Hitler made a vast amount of mistakes that arguably shortened the war and aided an allied victory.  Without Hitler in leadership, the funding of expensive but ultimately strategic failures like the V2, and strategic/battlefield decisions such as switching to bombing cities in the Battle of Britian or defending Calias and holding reserves for the "real invasion" instead of surging toward Normandy, may not have been as favorable. These poor decisions may not have been enough to turn the tide of war, but more practical decisions could have lengthened the time it took and increased the casualties suffered by the Allies.


Without Hitler, chances are very good there is no war.
 
5 days ago  
jeez, you guys.

The only significant impact Indy had on the plot of the film was to destroy the plane that was going to the initial method of transporting the Ark to Berlin. Belloq always wanted to be the first to open the casket and Indy's intervention gave him the opportunity to do so. If anyone's responsible for the Ark not personally making Adolf go all explodey it's him, not Indy.
 
5 days ago  
This is why I like Temple of Doom so much. It's really the only one out of the four in which Indy has to take a proactive stand against bad guys, instead of just racing them to a Macguffin and inadvertently LEADING THEM STRAIGHT TO IT, whereupon he spends most of the third act as a captive and then escapes as the bad guys are killed by something else. It's why "Right, ALL of us!" followed by him laying out that Thugee slaver is probably my favorite moment of the series.
 
5 days ago  

Michael J Faux: This is why I like Temple of Doom so much.


I like it for the cringe-inducing racism.
 
5 days ago  

Martian_Astronomer: mcmnky: /next tell me how every Seinfeld episode doesn't happen if they have smart phones

I mean, not every episode. "The Contest" and plot line where Jerry starts sleeping with his housekeeper would be basically the same. Just like 70% of the episodes would be gone.


When they get lost driving out to the Hamptons, they don't get lost with a smartphone with gps. Other than that.........?
 
5 days ago  

madgonad: mcmnky: How does Indy not affect the outcome? Nazis only find the headpiece by following him to Nepal. Even if you assume they find Marion and the ark without Indy, the Americans only find the ark at the end because Indy and Marion are on the island.

The outcome is entirely different is Indy isn't there.

/next tell me how every Seinfeld episode doesn't happen if they have smart phones

Nope. The Nazi was already on the plane to Tibet when Indy gets on it. The Nazi already found out where Ravenwood was when he came to the US and he just happened to be on the same plane. So if Indy said 'no way, I don't want to find the Ark of the Covenant' the Nazi would have gone on to Tibet on his own and bought the headpiece off of the desperate barmaid. Also, it was only a matter of time before the Nazis found the Ark in the desert.

Indy's presence assures that the Americans get the Ark in the end. If not for him it would have been opened in Berlin after being airlifted there, probably not in front of Hitler though.


In my head cannon, the nazi is only on that plane because they know Indy has a ticket. They're on the plane before Indy, but they're still following him.
 
5 days ago  
Indy's presence might not have had much effect on the Ark's journey, but it would've ended a lot worse for Marion if he wasn't there.

And sometimes that's enough.
 
5 days ago  

snowybunting: SirEattonHogg: gunga galunga: snowybunting: Apparently there is a lot of scenes that were left on the cutting room floor as it made Indy look like a major poon hound, including backstory on how Indy and Marion first met when she was a child.

Did you always go out for popcorn right when Indy shows up at Marion's bar in Nepal? 'Cuz apparently you kept missing this exchange.

Marion: I learned to hate you in the last ten years.
Indiana: I never meant to hurt you.
Marion: I was a child. I was in love. It was wrong and you knew it.
Indiana: You knew what you were doing.
Marion: Now I do. This is my place. Get out!
Indiana: I did what I did. I don't expect you to be happy about it, but maybe we can do each other some good.

Apparently I did, or it flew over my head as a kid watching it in theater and later on VHS.

Only as an adult watching it, I was like WTF?  Indy as creepy pedo prof?


Yeah, I always took that "child" thing as she was 18 or 20 or something, not a literal child. Also some parts left on the cutting room floor had Indy banging one of his students, I'm not so sure how all that would fly today.


This.

Marion was 18 or 19 during their initial fling. She was just whining about being a 'child' due to her emotional immaturity at that point, not claiming she was an actual CHILD, fer chrissakes.
 
5 days ago  

FlashHarry: Michael J Faux: This is why I like Temple of Doom so much.

I like it for the cringe-inducing racism.


See! Something for everyone!
 
5 days ago  

lemurs: Indy's presence might not have had much effect on the Ark's journey, but it would've ended a lot worse for Marion if he wasn't there.

And sometimes that's enough.


I don't know. She might have just sold it off without Indy to inspire her.
 
5 days ago  

LZeitgeist: Marion was 18 or 19 during their initial fling. She was just whining about being a 'child' due to her emotional immaturity at that point, not claiming she was an actual CHILD, fer chrissakes.


The approved novelization had her relationship with Jones starting when she was 15 and ending a year or two later. By our standards 15 is still a child (I have a 15 year old daughter who thinks that she is all grown up, but she's not), however this was the 1920s. Getting married at 15 wouldn't even be noticed and Jones was only 10 years older so it wasn't some old creep.

It was written to be on the borderline of acceptable and not acceptable.
 
5 days ago  
Indy clearly looked at that one extra in the bar scene indicating some kind of prior knowledge or relationship yet that guy is never seen again and serves NO NARRATIVE PURPOSE WHATSOEVER I mean oh my god could Steven Spielberg be any more of a hack, I really hope someone got fired for that blunder.

media4.giphy.comView Full Size
 
5 days ago  

dittybopper: Daedalus27: Funbags: Actually, he made the outcome worse. The Nazis had intended to bring the ark to Hitler to let him personally open it, until Indy convinced them otherwise.

Are you sure that is a worse outcome?  Hitler made a vast amount of mistakes that arguably shortened the war and aided an allied victory.  Without Hitler in leadership, the funding of expensive but ultimately strategic failures like the V2, and strategic/battlefield decisions such as switching to bombing cities in the Battle of Britian or defending Calias and holding reserves for the "real invasion" instead of surging toward Normandy, may not have been as favorable. These poor decisions may not have been enough to turn the tide of war, but more practical decisions could have lengthened the time it took and increased the casualties suffered by the Allies.

Without Hitler, chances are very good there is no war.


Without Hitler, there is no Godwin.
 
5 days ago  

madgonad: It was written to be on the borderline of acceptable and not acceptable.


Or maybe not. In the 1920s about 12% of all 15-18 year old women in the US were married. That's more than I thought.
 
5 days ago  

lemurs: Indy's presence might not have had much effect on the Ark's journey, but it would've ended a lot worse for Marion if he wasn't there.

And sometimes that's enough.


Those Nazis went all the way to Nepal to get a necklace as a souvenir, but because of Indy, they had to settle for an emblazoned Toht.
 
5 days ago  

Daedalus27: Funbags: Actually, he made the outcome worse. The Nazis had intended to bring the ark to Hitler to let him personally open it, until Indy convinced them otherwise.

Are you sure that is a worse outcome?  Hitler made a vast amount of mistakes that arguably shortened the war and aided an allied victory.  Without Hitler in leadership, the funding of expensive but ultimately strategic failures like the V2, and strategic/battlefield decisions such as switching to bombing cities in the Battle of Britian or defending Calias and holding reserves for the "real invasion" instead of surging toward Normandy, may not have been as favorable. These poor decisions may not have been enough to turn the tide of war, but more practical decisions could have lengthened the time it took and increased the casualties suffered by the Allies.


And Hitler would have had nuclear-tipped V2s as well, if Jim Kirk hadn't let Edith Keeler get crushed by that truck.
 
5 days ago  

madgonad: LZeitgeist: Marion was 18 or 19 during their initial fling. She was just whining about being a 'child' due to her emotional immaturity at that point, not claiming she was an actual CHILD, fer chrissakes.

The approved novelization had her relationship with Jones starting when she was 15 and ending a year or two later. By our standards 15 is still a child (I have a 15 year old daughter who thinks that she is all grown up, but she's not), however this was the 1920s. Getting married at 15 wouldn't even be noticed and Jones was only 10 years older so it wasn't some old creep.

It was written to be on the borderline of acceptable and not acceptable.


Excellent point.
 
5 days ago  

madgonad: madgonad: It was written to be on the borderline of acceptable and not acceptable.

Or maybe not. In the 1920s about 12% of all 15-18 year old women in the US were married. That's more than I thought.


Even better point.
 
5 days ago  
Wait. Karen Allen isn't Margot Kidder?
 
5 days ago  

swahnhennessy: Wait. Karen Allen isn't Margot Kidder?


You aren't the only one confused.

Fark user imageView Full Size


The crazy one is on the left
 
5 days ago  

DecemberNitro: Indy clearly looked at that one extra in the bar scene indicating some kind of prior knowledge or relationship yet that guy is never seen again and serves NO NARRATIVE PURPOSE WHATSOEVER I mean oh my god could Steven Spielberg be any more of a hack, I really hope someone got fired for that blunder.



Also, Belloq ate a fly.
 
5 days ago  
we watched the 4K version last night. Its wonderful to see beautify shot action film that relied on talent, direction and stunt work, with some beautiful photochemical era FX, and how much more IMERSIVE a film felt when you are not simply watching an endless parade of physics defying obvious CGI (cough...Fast and furious and almost every other action film today)

The Truck chase sequence is still heart pounding.
 
5 days ago  

madgonad: swahnhennessy: Wait. Karen Allen isn't Margot Kidder?

You aren't the only one confused.

[Fark user image 512x288]

The crazy one is on the left


Karen Allen is a lovely lady to chat with. And she looked like a real person in the film, rather than some plastic barbie wannabe
 
5 days ago  

madgonad: LZeitgeist: Marion was 18 or 19 during their initial fling. She was just whining about being a 'child' due to her emotional immaturity at that point, not claiming she was an actual CHILD, fer chrissakes.

The approved novelization had her relationship with Jones starting when she was 15 and ending a year or two later. By our standards 15 is still a child (I have a 15 year old daughter who thinks that she is all grown up, but she's not), however this was the 1920s. Getting married at 15 wouldn't even be noticed and Jones was only 10 years older so it wasn't some old creep.

It was written to be on the borderline of acceptable and not acceptable.


How old was Indy supposed to be ? He was learning from Abner at the time. how far removed from river phoenix indy ?
 
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