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(TaxProf)   College enrollment plummets by 727,000. In related news, beer sales are down 186,000,000 barrels   (taxprof.typepad.com) divider line
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1434 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jun 2021 at 7:20 PM (11 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-06-10 9:50:47 PM  

thealgorerhythm: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

In California, a plumber's apprentice starts at $35k or more (in some areas it can be $50k). You need a high school diploma or GED and be physically able to do the work.  An apprenticeship takes about 5 years, so roughly equivalent to going to college for a master's degree, except most people don't get paid to go to college.  At the end of the apprenticeship you aren't saddled with a pile of student loan debt.  Plus, your job is never going to be outsourced to China.

If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

High schools need to stop pushing the lie that you are a failure if you don't go to college.  Not everyone is cut out for college and some people would be happier working in the trades instead of being an office drone.

Does select quoting somebody to make a straw man argument help you feel smarter?

Given the rest of your post wasn't relevant, I'm guessing my select quoting annoys you because you thought you had a lot to say, but in reality had nothing.

Sorry about your life.


Still noting relevant to say, it appears.
 
2021-06-10 10:06:53 PM  

OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

In California, a plumber's apprentice starts at $35k or more (in some areas it can be $50k). You need a high school diploma or GED and be physically able to do the work.  An apprenticeship takes about 5 years, so roughly equivalent to going to college for a master's degree, except most people don't get paid to go to college.  At the end of the apprenticeship you aren't saddled with a pile of student loan debt.  Plus, your job is never going to be outsourced to China.

If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

High schools need to stop pushing the lie that you are a failure if you don't go to college.  Not everyone is cut out for college and some people would be happier working in the trades instead of being an office drone.

Does select quoting somebody to make a straw man argument help you feel smarter?

Given the rest of your post wasn't relevant, I'm guessing my select quoting annoys you because you thought you had a lot to say, but in reality had nothing.

Sorry about your life.

Still noting relevant to say, it appears.


If you gotta come in here and release that aggression on everybody, something must have hurt you. I just want you to know that I'm sorry.
 
2021-06-10 10:16:38 PM  

thealgorerhythm: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

In California, a plumber's apprentice starts at $35k or more (in some areas it can be $50k). You need a high school diploma or GED and be physically able to do the work.  An apprenticeship takes about 5 years, so roughly equivalent to going to college for a master's degree, except most people don't get paid to go to college.  At the end of the apprenticeship you aren't saddled with a pile of student loan debt.  Plus, your job is never going to be outsourced to China.

If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

High schools need to stop pushing the lie that you are a failure if you don't go to college.  Not everyone is cut out for college and some people would be happier working in the trades instead of being an office drone.

Does select quoting somebody to make a straw man argument help you feel smarter?

Given the rest of your post wasn't relevant, I'm guessing my select quoting annoys you because you thought you had a lot to say, but in reality had nothing.

Sorry about your life.

Still noting relevant to say, it appears.

If you gotta come in here and release that aggression on everybody, something must have hurt you. I just want you to know that I'm sorry.


I'm still waiting for you to add something relevant.  You made a comment about apprenticeship programs and I posted information on the opportunity and pay of that kind of work.  I was not insulting you at all.  I was adding to what you said.  But for some reason you decided that simply providing information is an attack against you and so you act like a complete dickwad.  If anyone is having problems, it would be you.  Get help.
 
2021-06-10 10:36:35 PM  

OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

In California, a plumber's apprentice starts at $35k or more (in some areas it can be $50k). You need a high school diploma or GED and be physically able to do the work.  An apprenticeship takes about 5 years, so roughly equivalent to going to college for a master's degree, except most people don't get paid to go to college.  At the end of the apprenticeship you aren't saddled with a pile of student loan debt.  Plus, your job is never going to be outsourced to China.

If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

High schools need to stop pushing the lie that you are a failure if you don't go to college.  Not everyone is cut out for college and some people would be happier working in the trades instead of being an office drone.


You need to make money immediately in the skilled trades, because they take a toll on the bodies of tradespeople. If you're not in a supervisory role within a decade of your career, you won't last more than 20 years in it.
 
2021-06-10 10:37:51 PM  

OgreMagi: Ragin' Asian: I get by on freelance gigs.

Take California off your list.  Freelance work was effectively outlawed with the passage of AB5.


Which was overturned by the passage of prop. 22.
 
2021-06-10 10:41:08 PM  

Spermbot: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

In California, a plumber's apprentice starts at $35k or more (in some areas it can be $50k). You need a high school diploma or GED and be physically able to do the work.  An apprenticeship takes about 5 years, so roughly equivalent to going to college for a master's degree, except most people don't get paid to go to college.  At the end of the apprenticeship you aren't saddled with a pile of student loan debt.  Plus, your job is never going to be outsourced to China.

If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

High schools need to stop pushing the lie that you are a failure if you don't go to college.  Not everyone is cut out for college and some people would be happier working in the trades instead of being an office drone.

You need to make money immediately in the skilled trades, because they take a toll on the bodies of tradespeople. If you're not in a supervisory role within a decade of your career, you won't last more than 20 years in it.


My grandparents were carpenters well into their 60s and not as supervisors.  They swung hammers.  Some people won't be able to last on that kind of job, no doubt.  But some people are tougher.

My grandfather was a CPA and had a heart attack while still young.  The doctor told him he would be dead within five years if he didn't get out from behind that desk.  So he and my grandmother took up the carpentry trade.  They both lived very long lives.
 
2021-06-10 10:41:58 PM  

Spermbot: OgreMagi: Ragin' Asian: I get by on freelance gigs.

Take California off your list.  Freelance work was effectively outlawed with the passage of AB5.

Which was overturned by the passage of prop. 22.


No it wasn't.  It made another loophole for uber.  It didn't do a thing for most freelance jobs.
 
2021-06-10 10:50:56 PM  

Spermbot: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

In California, a plumber's apprentice starts at $35k or more (in some areas it can be $50k). You need a high school diploma or GED and be physically able to do the work.  An apprenticeship takes about 5 years, so roughly equivalent to going to college for a master's degree, except most people don't get paid to go to college.  At the end of the apprenticeship you aren't saddled with a pile of student loan debt.  Plus, your job is never going to be outsourced to China.

If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

High schools need to stop pushing the lie that you are a failure if you don't go to college.  Not everyone is cut out for college and some people would be happier working in the trades instead of being an office drone.

You need to make money immediately in the skilled trades, because they take a toll on the bodies of tradespeople. If you're not in a supervisory role within a decade of your career, you won't last more than 20 years in it.


sitting all day, at a desk in front a computer can be pretty brutal on the body from what I hear as well
 
2021-06-10 10:55:51 PM  
That sure looks like the precursor to a recession.

Graduate School, and to a degree For-Profit institutions, are very regressive indicators. Economy goes down : enrollment goes up.

But what is uniquely odd about this is the massive drop in two year colleges, since they're affordable, local, and had the same massive shift towards digital education.

What I suspect, is this crater is tied to student performance. New students didn't fail to show up, existing students dropped out.

A similar trend in student performance is happening at the High School level, assignments weren't completed, students failed. Those failures will draw down two year again, but not as much as students who dropped out return, but fewer marginal students will mean empty seats in the Fall.

Spoiler, Summer Term enrollment is also in the shiatter, but Fall will be better, especially at 4 year institutions.
 
2021-06-10 11:00:27 PM  
And I know without growth we believe we're screwed but it is 3.7% really a plummet?
 
2021-06-10 11:00:45 PM  
If they're freaking over this, they definitely aren't ready for 2025.
 
2021-06-10 11:02:41 PM  
College enrollment rates have declined by an average of 1.67% per year since 2010.
 
2021-06-10 11:05:10 PM  
Which is actually a good thing

unless you're focused on a high-level job doctor lawyer engineer Sports

that often touted 1 million more over the life of your career is just not going to happen

most likely and if it does it's not because you went to college
 
2021-06-11 7:54:16 AM  

the money is in the banana stand: 1.) People realizing that going to college during a pandemic and paying full tuition for remote learning might not be worth it and they are better off taking a gap year.
2.) ...


I'm in a group with a ton of parents of college-aged kids. This is, BY FAR, the number one reason for kids not bothering to go for the 2020-2021 year. Tuiton is obscene already; paying that for remote is downright stupid.
 
2021-06-11 9:16:36 AM  

Bolebuns: Gin Buddy: You know when graduate enrollment goes up?

There are no JOBS so they stay in school.

You know how little grad teaching assistantships pay these days?  Probably do better with minimum wage.  I teach college and, at least at my school, undergrads are harder to enroll because scholarship money is scarce and grads get tuition waved.  But the stipend is for shiat for the grads.  Undergrads don't have jobs that pay enough and thus with tuition demands they cannot afford school.


You need to factor in the free tuition for the TAs.
 
2021-06-11 9:50:19 AM  

Spermbot: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

In California, a plumber's apprentice starts at $35k or more (in some areas it can be $50k). You need a high school diploma or GED and be physically able to do the work.  An apprenticeship takes about 5 years, so roughly equivalent to going to college for a master's degree, except most people don't get paid to go to college.  At the end of the apprenticeship you aren't saddled with a pile of student loan debt.  Plus, your job is never going to be outsourced to China.

If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

High schools need to stop pushing the lie that you are a failure if you don't go to college.  Not everyone is cut out for college and some people would be happier working in the trades instead of being an office drone.

You need to make money immediately in the skilled trades, because they take a toll on the bodies of tradespeople. If you're not in a supervisory role within a decade of your career, you won't last more than 20 years in it.


I don't know, my brother runs his own plumbing company and most of his plumbers / helpers are in their 50s.  I agree it takes a toll, they all have bad health issues, and none of them have even gone on to their Journeyman license.
 
2021-06-11 10:53:36 AM  
You mean people aren't paying top-dollar to go to a website that tells them to buy (physical) books and read them?

Why I never!

Maybe one of you student-loan-crushiees can explain it to us non-debt-havers. (we probably still won't get it, with the lack of debt and all)
 
2021-06-11 10:55:01 AM  
186 Million? Must be Light beer.
 
2021-06-11 3:46:27 PM  

DarkLancelot: Spermbot: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

In California, a plumber's apprentice starts at $35k or more (in some areas it can be $50k). You need a high school diploma or GED and be physically able to do the work.  An apprenticeship takes about 5 years, so roughly equivalent to going to college for a master's degree, except most people don't get paid to go to college.  At the end of the apprenticeship you aren't saddled with a pile of student loan debt.  Plus, your job is never going to be outsourced to China.

If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

High schools need to stop pushing the lie that you are a failure if you don't go to college.  Not everyone is cut out for college and some people would be happier working in the trades instead of being an office drone.

You need to make money immediately in the skilled trades, because they take a toll on the bodies of tradespeople. If you're not in a supervisory role within a decade of your career, you won't last more than 20 years in it.

I don't know, my brother runs his own plumbing company and most of his plumbers / helpers are in their 50s.  I agree it takes a toll, they all have bad health issues, and none of them have even gone on to their Journeyman license.


There is a classroom portion to get your journeyman license, though it may be possible to pass the test without the classroom.   A wild guess, those guys didn't want to put in the extra effort to pass the licensing exam.
 
2021-06-11 5:12:39 PM  
Here in VA and MD it requires no classroom work and is an open book test.  Mostly they don't do it because Journeyman doesn't get them more money, it's just a step to Master where if you want more money you start your own business.  At least that's what I gather from speaking with them.
 
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