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(TaxProf)   College enrollment plummets by 727,000. In related news, beer sales are down 186,000,000 barrels   (taxprof.typepad.com) divider line
    More: Interesting  
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1428 clicks; posted to Main » on 10 Jun 2021 at 7:20 PM (4 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
4 days ago  
You know when graduate enrollment goes up?

There are no JOBS so they stay in school.
 
4 days ago  
Well duh
 
4 days ago  
The MOOCs are finally taking off, lol.
 
4 days ago  
In 2019-2020, there were 1.1 million international students in the US. I wonder what the dropoff was this spring given who could/could not get into the country in the fall term to start the semester. There are still potential issues for next academic year too
 
4 days ago  
Someone think of the endowments! THE ENDOWMENTS!  If there are less alumni to soak for cash, we can't have as huge of a slush fund!
 
4 days ago  
What would Judge Smails have to say about this?
 
4 days ago  

Gin Buddy: You know when graduate enrollment goes up?

There are no JOBS so they stay in school.


You know how little grad teaching assistantships pay these days?  Probably do better with minimum wage.  I teach college and, at least at my school, undergrads are harder to enroll because scholarship money is scarce and grads get tuition waved.  But the stipend is for shiat for the grads.  Undergrads don't have jobs that pay enough and thus with tuition demands they cannot afford school.
 
4 days ago  
A.) You missed enrollment due to COVID-19 after graduating in 2020.  Either you or your parents were too afraid to send you, your chosen school closed down, or you just decided to "wait a year".

B.) You flunked out of online enrollment.  Maybe it was League of Legends on the other monitor, Facebook on your phone, or taking care of your younger siblings because they weren't in school and you were stuck at home.  Either way, now you're a dropout.

C.) Your family's income collapsed entirely and the student loan people don't want to hear that you can't afford your intended family contribution anymore.

D.) As above, but your family needed you to pick up one or more jobs to keep the mortgage paid, so no college for you.

E.) Maybe it has nothing to do with the pandemic.  Enrollment was due to drop demographically, IIRC.  Certainly people are starting to think twice about taking on debt equivalent to a 40 year mortgage before even looking at a house...

Everybody's poorer now except people who were already ludicrously wealthy beyond dreams of avarice before all of this happened, so funny how already-unaffordable college suddenly got even more unaffordable for lots of families.  And one messed-up class year is just about all it takes to push a lot of low-endowment schools into bankruptcy...
 
4 days ago  
Now if they'd just lower the cost of the goin to College but nope.....they also raised the cost of Beer too. Bastardz.          
Fark user imageView Full Size


Yupperz, it wasn't OVER either Boyz.....!!!!!!
 
4 days ago  
One of the good things about the pandemic is people are realizing college degrees aren't necessary for jobs. One of the lousy things is there aren't any jobs. I could get a job as a check out guy at the supermarket down the street. I did that as a teenager. I have no desire to do that at 42 with skills I have to offer.
 
4 days ago  
1.) People realizing that going to college during a pandemic and paying full tuition for remote learning might not be worth it and they are better off taking a gap year.
2.) ...
 
4 days ago  

Ragin' Asian: One of the good things about the pandemic is people are realizing college degrees aren't necessary for jobs. One of the lousy things is there aren't any jobs. I could get a job as a check out guy at the supermarket down the street. I did that as a teenager. I have no desire to do that at 42 with skills I have to offer.


There are plenty of jobs now. Across almost all industries here in Texas are hiring. We are actively looking for 4 different positions in a company of 65.
 
4 days ago  

the money is in the banana stand: Ragin' Asian: One of the good things about the pandemic is people are realizing college degrees aren't necessary for jobs. One of the lousy things is there aren't any jobs. I could get a job as a check out guy at the supermarket down the street. I did that as a teenager. I have no desire to do that at 42 with skills I have to offer.

There are plenty of jobs now. Across almost all industries here in Texas are hiring. We are actively looking for 4 different positions in a company of 65.


I'm a copywriter. I live in NYC, but not really shackled here. I've been trying to find employment in places including Texas. Also, Colorado, Michigan, California, New Zealand, and Australia.

I'm okay, though. I'm on ACA so I don't need to be dependent on employer health care. I get by on freelance gigs. I wouldn't complain about the stability of a full time position.
 
4 days ago  
They all tried online college in the fall and burned out.

I'll bet colleges that offer vaccinated in-person classes are gonna be overflowing this fall. They just want to go to school, get drunk, get laid, not worry about COVID.
 
4 days ago  

Ragin' Asian: One of the good things about the pandemic is people are realizing college degrees aren't necessary for jobs. One of the lousy things is there aren't any jobs. I could get a job as a check out guy at the supermarket down the street. I did that as a teenager. I have no desire to do that at 42 with skills I have to offer.


I think it's more that they're realizing you can't offer 10% above min wage for a degree and expect anyone to stay more than a few months.
 
4 days ago  

Ragin' Asian: One of the good things about the pandemic is people are realizing college degrees aren't necessary for jobs. One of the lousy things is there aren't any jobs. I could get a job as a check out guy at the supermarket down the street. I did that as a teenager. I have no desire to do that at 42 with skills I have to offer.


College degrees aren't necessary for jobs, just jobs* that you want.

* yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL
 
4 days ago  

GodComplex: Ragin' Asian: One of the good things about the pandemic is people are realizing college degrees aren't necessary for jobs. One of the lousy things is there aren't any jobs. I could get a job as a check out guy at the supermarket down the street. I did that as a teenager. I have no desire to do that at 42 with skills I have to offer.

I think it's more that they're realizing you can't offer 10% above min wage for a degree and expect anyone to stay more than a few months.


I understand that completely. The thing about me is, I'd like to think I'm a loyal guy. I don't want to take a job for $35/hr then get a job offer for $75/hr a week later and just say, "Deuces, assholes!"
 
4 days ago  

thealgorerhythm: Ragin' Asian: One of the good things about the pandemic is people are realizing college degrees aren't necessary for jobs. One of the lousy things is there aren't any jobs. I could get a job as a check out guy at the supermarket down the street. I did that as a teenager. I have no desire to do that at 42 with skills I have to offer.

College degrees aren't necessary for jobs, just jobs* that you want.

* yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL


media-amazon.comView Full Size


Entertainment industry person is always a job, so is a FansOnly freelancing in this day and age. I hear influencers make money too.

Then again, the real jobs require real skills only attained by study and sacrifice. That's not right, is it?
 
4 days ago  

Gin Buddy: There are no JOBS so they stay in school.


I believe college loan payments are deferred so long as you remain in school.  But if you are unemployed and out of school, you are doubly screwed.
 
4 days ago  

Ragin' Asian: the money is in the banana stand: Ragin' Asian: One of the good things about the pandemic is people are realizing college degrees aren't necessary for jobs. One of the lousy things is there aren't any jobs. I could get a job as a check out guy at the supermarket down the street. I did that as a teenager. I have no desire to do that at 42 with skills I have to offer.

There are plenty of jobs now. Across almost all industries here in Texas are hiring. We are actively looking for 4 different positions in a company of 65.

I'm a copywriter. I live in NYC, but not really shackled here. I've been trying to find employment in places including Texas. Also, Colorado, Michigan, California, New Zealand, and Australia.

I'm okay, though. I'm on ACA so I don't need to be dependent on employer health care. I get by on freelance gigs. I wouldn't complain about the stability of a full time position.


https://kimberlyclark.wd1.myworkdayjo​b​s.com/NA/5/refreshFacet/318c8bb6f55310​0021d223d9780d30be

Kimberly-Clark is looking for a full-time, remote, digital copywriter. I wonder if K-C would allow you to stay where you are and work remotely full time? It might be worth your time to look into it.

I know how hard it is to be unemployed or underemployed and have some smug lottery winner sneer that there are "plenty of jobs" especially since everyone cannot relocate for various reasons. I wish you good luck and hope you will find a great job soon.
 
4 days ago  
College is a racket nowadays; why would anyone in their right mind want to take on a mortgage's worth of debt so they can be forced to attend critical race theory classes and get nickel and dimed by endless bullshiat fees and mandatory meal plans with crappy food?  Millennials were blindsided by it but now younger people are getting wise to the scam.  The whole college system in this country is an evil corrupt mess needs to be gutted and rebuilt from the ground up.
 
4 days ago  

thealgorerhythm: yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL


In California, a plumber's apprentice starts at $35k or more (in some areas it can be $50k). You need a high school diploma or GED and be physically able to do the work.  An apprenticeship takes about 5 years, so roughly equivalent to going to college for a master's degree, except most people don't get paid to go to college.  At the end of the apprenticeship you aren't saddled with a pile of student loan debt.  Plus, your job is never going to be outsourced to China.

If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

High schools need to stop pushing the lie that you are a failure if you don't go to college.  Not everyone is cut out for college and some people would be happier working in the trades instead of being an office drone.
 
4 days ago  

Unknown Subject: College is a racket nowadays; why would anyone in their right mind want to take on a mortgage's worth of debt so they can be forced to attend critical race theory classes....


stop paying attention right there.
 
4 days ago  

thealgorerhythm: They all tried online college in the fall and burned out.

I'll bet colleges that offer vaccinated in-person classes are gonna be overflowing this fall. They just want to go to school, get drunk, get laid, not worry about COVID.


How old are you? You sound like my father and he is in his 70's. Do you really think Girls Gone Wild is an accurate depiction of college?

I didn't date at all for the last two years that I was in college. I went to class, worked, studied, slept, and got up to do it again in the morning.

Yet, thanks to the pandemic, my Zoomer kids had an even worse experience in college. Last year, they had on-line labs that consisted of watching videos. Every organic chemistry tutor in the state understandably gave up in-person tutoring. Most of their professors steadfastly refused to believe that any college student might hold a job or enroll in another class. Operating under the assumption that students had "nothing else to do," they piled on additional assignments.
 
4 days ago  

Ragin' Asian: I get by on freelance gigs.


Take California off your list.  Freelance work was effectively outlawed with the passage of AB5.
 
4 days ago  
I work at a college. Last year, the enrollment was larger than usual. Next year's incoming class will be the largest ever. I'm not seeing this.
 
4 days ago  

thealgorerhythm: Ragin' Asian: One of the good things about the pandemic is people are realizing college degrees aren't necessary for jobs. One of the lousy things is there aren't any jobs. I could get a job as a check out guy at the supermarket down the street. I did that as a teenager. I have no desire to do that at 42 with skills I have to offer.

College degrees aren't necessary for jobs, just jobs* that you want.

* yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL


THIS. People go to college or tech school to do what they want to do, not just what they have to do. A job that's only what you have to do is a waste of talent, of potential, and of the one and only life you have. Higher education gives you more than just the knowledge you decide to keep... it gives you options. Options are good.
 
4 days ago  
Any comparison to what trades and trade school enrollment looks like?   Kids might be figuring out they'll earn more as a union electrician or plumber than they will as the front desk that "requires" an MBA.
 
4 days ago  

Bruscar: Ragin' Asian: the money is in the banana stand: Ragin' Asian: One of the good things about the pandemic is people are realizing college degrees aren't necessary for jobs. One of the lousy things is there aren't any jobs. I could get a job as a check out guy at the supermarket down the street. I did that as a teenager. I have no desire to do that at 42 with skills I have to offer.

There are plenty of jobs now. Across almost all industries here in Texas are hiring. We are actively looking for 4 different positions in a company of 65.

I'm a copywriter. I live in NYC, but not really shackled here. I've been trying to find employment in places including Texas. Also, Colorado, Michigan, California, New Zealand, and Australia.

I'm okay, though. I'm on ACA so I don't need to be dependent on employer health care. I get by on freelance gigs. I wouldn't complain about the stability of a full time position.

https://kimberlyclark.wd1.myworkdayjob​s.com/NA/5/refreshFacet/318c8bb6f55310​0021d223d9780d30be

Kimberly-Clark is looking for a full-time, remote, digital copywriter. I wonder if K-C would allow you to stay where you are and work remotely full time? It might be worth your time to look into it.

I know how hard it is to be unemployed or underemployed and have some smug lottery winner sneer that there are "plenty of jobs" especially since everyone cannot relocate for various reasons. I wish you good luck and hope you will find a great job soon.


I applied for that job through ZipRecriter. JobHat, CareerBuilder, and Craigslist. When I called to follow up, they said they were reviewing thousands of applicants. Good looking out. I really mean that. Stupid internet sarcasm isn't an issue here.
 
4 days ago  

rewind2846: thealgorerhythm: Ragin' Asian: One of the good things about the pandemic is people are realizing college degrees aren't necessary for jobs. One of the lousy things is there aren't any jobs. I could get a job as a check out guy at the supermarket down the street. I did that as a teenager. I have no desire to do that at 42 with skills I have to offer.

College degrees aren't necessary for jobs, just jobs* that you want.

* yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

THIS. People go to college or tech school to do what they want to do, not just what they have to do. A job that's only what you have to do is a waste of talent, of potential, and of the one and only life you have. Higher education gives you more than just the knowledge you decide to keep... it gives you options. Options are good.


Not always and it can be argued that core curriculum is an enormous waste of resources and time. If we think about higher education as career training, it fails dismally in almost all areas of applied knowledge and does not teach fairly fundamental principles in most all fields.
 
4 days ago  

outtatowner: thealgorerhythm: Ragin' Asian: One of the good things about the pandemic is people are realizing college degrees aren't necessary for jobs. One of the lousy things is there aren't any jobs. I could get a job as a check out guy at the supermarket down the street. I did that as a teenager. I have no desire to do that at 42 with skills I have to offer.

College degrees aren't necessary for jobs, just jobs* that you want.

* yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

[media-amazon.com image 140x209]

Entertainment industry person is always a job, so is a FansOnly freelancing in this day and age. I hear influencers make money too.

Then again, the real jobs require real skills only attained by study and sacrifice. That's not right, is it?


You think sex workers aren't skilled and practiced, and haven't made sacrifices?

You think you could handle it?
 
4 days ago  

Ragin' Asian: I applied for that job through ZipRecriter. JobHat, CareerBuilder, and Craigslist. When I called to follow up, they said they were reviewing thousands of applicants. Good looking out. I really mean that. Stupid internet sarcasm isn't an issue here.


Thousands of applicants . . . for ONE job opening.

Whelp. Now, I'm depressed.
 
4 days ago  

thealgorerhythm: They all tried online college in the fall and burned out.

I'll bet colleges that offer vaccinated in-person classes are gonna be overflowing this fall. They just want to go to school, get drunk, get laid, not worry about COVID.


Our incoming freshman class is usually 3500.

This fall it will be 6500.

They're coming back.
 
4 days ago  

OgreMagi: Ragin' Asian: I get by on freelance gigs.

Take California off your list.  Freelance work was effectively outlawed with the passage of AB5.


If you are writing more than 35 articles for the same outlet in a given year, then you are not a freelancer, you are a screwed over outsourced no-benefits employee with less-then-at-will employment.   I think Ragin'Asian can navigate California just fine.
 
4 days ago  

OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

In California, a plumber's apprentice starts at $35k or more (in some areas it can be $50k). You need a high school diploma or GED and be physically able to do the work.  An apprenticeship takes about 5 years, so roughly equivalent to going to college for a master's degree, except most people don't get paid to go to college.  At the end of the apprenticeship you aren't saddled with a pile of student loan debt.  Plus, your job is never going to be outsourced to China.

If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

High schools need to stop pushing the lie that you are a failure if you don't go to college.  Not everyone is cut out for college and some people would be happier working in the trades instead of being an office drone.


Does select quoting somebody to make a straw man argument help you feel smarter?
 
4 days ago  

RealityChuck: I work at a college. Last year, the enrollment was larger than usual. Next year's incoming class will be the largest ever. I'm not seeing this.


Same.
 
4 days ago  

Bruscar: thealgorerhythm: They all tried online college in the fall and burned out.

I'll bet colleges that offer vaccinated in-person classes are gonna be overflowing this fall. They just want to go to school, get drunk, get laid, not worry about COVID.

How old are you? You sound like my father and he is in his 70's. Do you really think Girls Gone Wild is an accurate depiction of college?

I didn't date at all for the last two years that I was in college. I went to class, worked, studied, slept, and got up to do it again in the morning.

Yet, thanks to the pandemic, my Zoomer kids had an even worse experience in college. Last year, they had on-line labs that consisted of watching videos. Every organic chemistry tutor in the state understandably gave up in-person tutoring. Most of their professors steadfastly refused to believe that any college student might hold a job or enroll in another class. Operating under the assumption that students had "nothing else to do," they piled on additional assignments.


I listed the things they want to do in the order they go to college to achieve. However, I have heard that sometimes 18-24 year olds do have biological urges.

That's what my great great grandchildren tell me. I'm 140 years old and haven't had sex this century
 
4 days ago  

sophus_tree: RealityChuck: I work at a college. Last year, the enrollment was larger than usual. Next year's incoming class will be the largest ever. I'm not seeing this.

Same.


UC Berkeley was about flat.   Some schools must be getting murdered.
 
4 days ago  

OgreMagi: If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.


I have TWO (that's 1+1) art degrees... an AS and a BA in applied Art (Graphic Design). When i stepped into class I was earning about $45K a year. My first job after graduation started @ $57K a year. 9 years later (Class of 2012) I'm just shy of $89K/year. Indoors, my own office, AC (which REALLY helped with the 105 degree temps today!), the works. And the degrees are from a state college and CC, so... no debt in that state (CA). Pell grants. Scholarships. YMMV.

Useless? No degree is "useless". It's all about what you do with it. Any degree is useless if the person holding it does not apply themselves or didn't bother to learn anything while getting it. That's why you go, not for job training. And there are ways of going to school with little or no debt that don't involve joining the military.
 
4 days ago  
Idiots. How do they expect to get that that $15 an hour entry level job without spending $100k on that 4 year degree?

Kids today are so lazy
 
4 days ago  

the money is in the banana stand: If we think about higher education as career training,


No, this is where YOU fail. This right here. College/university isn't job training. It never was. It's THINK training. It's LEARN training. It's KNOWLEDGE training. There are quite a few college grads that are in fields they love that are barely related to their majors, but it was their majors that gave them the tools to get there.

As I said... options.
 
4 days ago  
Would be interesting to look at this from a comparative perspective i.e. US vs other countries.

Everyone (except Australia/NZ) got hit by the pandemic but the US has its own special problems regarding higher education.

If enrollment was down everywhere, then it's probably the pandemic. Otherwise, it's yet another unfixed American structural problem.
 
4 days ago  

the money is in the banana stand: rewind2846: thealgorerhythm: Ragin' Asian: One of the good things about the pandemic is people are realizing college degrees aren't necessary for jobs. One of the lousy things is there aren't any jobs. I could get a job as a check out guy at the supermarket down the street. I did that as a teenager. I have no desire to do that at 42 with skills I have to offer.

College degrees aren't necessary for jobs, just jobs* that you want.

* yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

THIS. People go to college or tech school to do what they want to do, not just what they have to do. A job that's only what you have to do is a waste of talent, of potential, and of the one and only life you have. Higher education gives you more than just the knowledge you decide to keep... it gives you options. Options are good.

Not always and it can be argued that core curriculum is an enormous waste of resources and time. If we think about higher education as career training, it fails dismally in almost all areas of applied knowledge and does not teach fairly fundamental principles in most all fields.


Fark user imageView Full Size


Newsflash: readin writin and art is all cool agains
 
4 days ago  
And and the cost of living is up 5% for some reason!
 
4 days ago  

thealgorerhythm: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

In California, a plumber's apprentice starts at $35k or more (in some areas it can be $50k). You need a high school diploma or GED and be physically able to do the work.  An apprenticeship takes about 5 years, so roughly equivalent to going to college for a master's degree, except most people don't get paid to go to college.  At the end of the apprenticeship you aren't saddled with a pile of student loan debt.  Plus, your job is never going to be outsourced to China.

If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

High schools need to stop pushing the lie that you are a failure if you don't go to college.  Not everyone is cut out for college and some people would be happier working in the trades instead of being an office drone.

Does select quoting somebody to make a straw man argument help you feel smarter?


Given the rest of your post wasn't relevant, I'm guessing my select quoting annoys you because you thought you had a lot to say, but in reality had nothing.
 
4 days ago  

rewind2846: OgreMagi: If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

I have TWO (that's 1+1) art degrees... an AS and a BA in applied Art (Graphic Design). When i stepped into class I was earning about $45K a year. My first job after graduation started @ $57K a year. 9 years later (Class of 2012) I'm just shy of $89K/year. Indoors, my own office, AC (which REALLY helped with the 105 degree temps today!), the works. And the degrees are from a state college and CC, so... no debt in that state (CA). Pell grants. Scholarships. YMMV.

Useless? No degree is "useless". It's all about what you do with it. Any degree is useless if the person holding it does not apply themselves or didn't bother to learn anything while getting it. That's why you go, not for job training. And there are ways of going to school with little or no debt that don't involve joining the military.


An art degree is not an art history degree.  There's a hell of a lot of good paying jobs for someone with a degree in graphics art.  A degree in art history is good for a job in a museum, and there aren't a lot of those and they don't pay very much.  That means you will go for any job demanding a generic degree (but doesn't really need one).  That would be a general office drone.
 
4 days ago  

rewind2846: OgreMagi: If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

I have TWO (that's 1+1) art degrees... an AS and a BA in applied Art (Graphic Design). When i stepped into class I was earning about $45K a year. My first job after graduation started @ $57K a year. 9 years later (Class of 2012) I'm just shy of $89K/year. Indoors, my own office, AC (which REALLY helped with the 105 degree temps today!), the works. And the degrees are from a state college and CC, so... no debt in that state (CA). Pell grants. Scholarships. YMMV.

Useless? No degree is "useless". It's all about what you do with it. Any degree is useless if the person holding it does not apply themselves or didn't bother to learn anything while getting it. That's why you go, not for job training. And there are ways of going to school with little or no debt that don't involve joining the military.


This is open to you and anyone who wants to collaborate. I can write, but my graphic design and web development is for shiat. michael.4.vivar@gmail
 
4 days ago  

dbaggins: OgreMagi: Ragin' Asian: I get by on freelance gigs.

Take California off your list.  Freelance work was effectively outlawed with the passage of AB5.

If you are writing more than 35 articles for the same outlet in a given year, then you are not a freelancer, you are a screwed over outsourced no-benefits employee with less-then-at-will employment.   I think Ragin'Asian can navigate California just fine.


They've added some loopholes to AB5, but for most freelance type jobs, you can't work at all.  Take translations.  I know someone who does this (well, did) for a living.  AB5 put her out of work.  There was no exclusion for how many documents she translates for a particular company.  With companies she had a working relationship with, she would rarely handle more than a couple of documents per year.  In the eyes of AB5, even a couple of documents a year is too much to freelance.  She needs to be a full time employee.  Except there isn't enough work in a single company to justify hiring her full time.  So now work she used to get is going to translators in other states.  She went from making a modest living translating from home, to unemployed right at the start of a pandemic.

And even for job types that have loopholes, a lot of work is going elsewhere because businesses don't want to deal with California freelance laws that keep changing.
 
4 days ago  

OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

In California, a plumber's apprentice starts at $35k or more (in some areas it can be $50k). You need a high school diploma or GED and be physically able to do the work.  An apprenticeship takes about 5 years, so roughly equivalent to going to college for a master's degree, except most people don't get paid to go to college.  At the end of the apprenticeship you aren't saddled with a pile of student loan debt.  Plus, your job is never going to be outsourced to China.

If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

High schools need to stop pushing the lie that you are a failure if you don't go to college.  Not everyone is cut out for college and some people would be happier working in the trades instead of being an office drone.

Does select quoting somebody to make a straw man argument help you feel smarter?

Given the rest of your post wasn't relevant, I'm guessing my select quoting annoys you because you thought you had a lot to say, but in reality had nothing.


Sorry about your life.
 
4 days ago  
I'd imagine the largest decrease would be international students coming to small private schools in rural areas of the country. I know Vermont had a few private colleges struggling a couple of years back, and something tells me that trend is not unique to rural Vermont.
 
4 days ago  

thealgorerhythm: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

In California, a plumber's apprentice starts at $35k or more (in some areas it can be $50k). You need a high school diploma or GED and be physically able to do the work.  An apprenticeship takes about 5 years, so roughly equivalent to going to college for a master's degree, except most people don't get paid to go to college.  At the end of the apprenticeship you aren't saddled with a pile of student loan debt.  Plus, your job is never going to be outsourced to China.

If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

High schools need to stop pushing the lie that you are a failure if you don't go to college.  Not everyone is cut out for college and some people would be happier working in the trades instead of being an office drone.

Does select quoting somebody to make a straw man argument help you feel smarter?

Given the rest of your post wasn't relevant, I'm guessing my select quoting annoys you because you thought you had a lot to say, but in reality had nothing.

Sorry about your life.


Still noting relevant to say, it appears.
 
4 days ago  

OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

In California, a plumber's apprentice starts at $35k or more (in some areas it can be $50k). You need a high school diploma or GED and be physically able to do the work.  An apprenticeship takes about 5 years, so roughly equivalent to going to college for a master's degree, except most people don't get paid to go to college.  At the end of the apprenticeship you aren't saddled with a pile of student loan debt.  Plus, your job is never going to be outsourced to China.

If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

High schools need to stop pushing the lie that you are a failure if you don't go to college.  Not everyone is cut out for college and some people would be happier working in the trades instead of being an office drone.

Does select quoting somebody to make a straw man argument help you feel smarter?

Given the rest of your post wasn't relevant, I'm guessing my select quoting annoys you because you thought you had a lot to say, but in reality had nothing.

Sorry about your life.

Still noting relevant to say, it appears.


If you gotta come in here and release that aggression on everybody, something must have hurt you. I just want you to know that I'm sorry.
 
4 days ago  

thealgorerhythm: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

In California, a plumber's apprentice starts at $35k or more (in some areas it can be $50k). You need a high school diploma or GED and be physically able to do the work.  An apprenticeship takes about 5 years, so roughly equivalent to going to college for a master's degree, except most people don't get paid to go to college.  At the end of the apprenticeship you aren't saddled with a pile of student loan debt.  Plus, your job is never going to be outsourced to China.

If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

High schools need to stop pushing the lie that you are a failure if you don't go to college.  Not everyone is cut out for college and some people would be happier working in the trades instead of being an office drone.

Does select quoting somebody to make a straw man argument help you feel smarter?

Given the rest of your post wasn't relevant, I'm guessing my select quoting annoys you because you thought you had a lot to say, but in reality had nothing.

Sorry about your life.

Still noting relevant to say, it appears.

If you gotta come in here and release that aggression on everybody, something must have hurt you. I just want you to know that I'm sorry.


I'm still waiting for you to add something relevant.  You made a comment about apprenticeship programs and I posted information on the opportunity and pay of that kind of work.  I was not insulting you at all.  I was adding to what you said.  But for some reason you decided that simply providing information is an attack against you and so you act like a complete dickwad.  If anyone is having problems, it would be you.  Get help.
 
4 days ago  

OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

In California, a plumber's apprentice starts at $35k or more (in some areas it can be $50k). You need a high school diploma or GED and be physically able to do the work.  An apprenticeship takes about 5 years, so roughly equivalent to going to college for a master's degree, except most people don't get paid to go to college.  At the end of the apprenticeship you aren't saddled with a pile of student loan debt.  Plus, your job is never going to be outsourced to China.

If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

High schools need to stop pushing the lie that you are a failure if you don't go to college.  Not everyone is cut out for college and some people would be happier working in the trades instead of being an office drone.


You need to make money immediately in the skilled trades, because they take a toll on the bodies of tradespeople. If you're not in a supervisory role within a decade of your career, you won't last more than 20 years in it.
 
4 days ago  

OgreMagi: Ragin' Asian: I get by on freelance gigs.

Take California off your list.  Freelance work was effectively outlawed with the passage of AB5.


Which was overturned by the passage of prop. 22.
 
4 days ago  

Spermbot: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

In California, a plumber's apprentice starts at $35k or more (in some areas it can be $50k). You need a high school diploma or GED and be physically able to do the work.  An apprenticeship takes about 5 years, so roughly equivalent to going to college for a master's degree, except most people don't get paid to go to college.  At the end of the apprenticeship you aren't saddled with a pile of student loan debt.  Plus, your job is never going to be outsourced to China.

If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

High schools need to stop pushing the lie that you are a failure if you don't go to college.  Not everyone is cut out for college and some people would be happier working in the trades instead of being an office drone.

You need to make money immediately in the skilled trades, because they take a toll on the bodies of tradespeople. If you're not in a supervisory role within a decade of your career, you won't last more than 20 years in it.


My grandparents were carpenters well into their 60s and not as supervisors.  They swung hammers.  Some people won't be able to last on that kind of job, no doubt.  But some people are tougher.

My grandfather was a CPA and had a heart attack while still young.  The doctor told him he would be dead within five years if he didn't get out from behind that desk.  So he and my grandmother took up the carpentry trade.  They both lived very long lives.
 
4 days ago  

Spermbot: OgreMagi: Ragin' Asian: I get by on freelance gigs.

Take California off your list.  Freelance work was effectively outlawed with the passage of AB5.

Which was overturned by the passage of prop. 22.


No it wasn't.  It made another loophole for uber.  It didn't do a thing for most freelance jobs.
 
4 days ago  

Spermbot: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

In California, a plumber's apprentice starts at $35k or more (in some areas it can be $50k). You need a high school diploma or GED and be physically able to do the work.  An apprenticeship takes about 5 years, so roughly equivalent to going to college for a master's degree, except most people don't get paid to go to college.  At the end of the apprenticeship you aren't saddled with a pile of student loan debt.  Plus, your job is never going to be outsourced to China.

If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

High schools need to stop pushing the lie that you are a failure if you don't go to college.  Not everyone is cut out for college and some people would be happier working in the trades instead of being an office drone.

You need to make money immediately in the skilled trades, because they take a toll on the bodies of tradespeople. If you're not in a supervisory role within a decade of your career, you won't last more than 20 years in it.


sitting all day, at a desk in front a computer can be pretty brutal on the body from what I hear as well
 
4 days ago  
That sure looks like the precursor to a recession.

Graduate School, and to a degree For-Profit institutions, are very regressive indicators. Economy goes down : enrollment goes up.

But what is uniquely odd about this is the massive drop in two year colleges, since they're affordable, local, and had the same massive shift towards digital education.

What I suspect, is this crater is tied to student performance. New students didn't fail to show up, existing students dropped out.

A similar trend in student performance is happening at the High School level, assignments weren't completed, students failed. Those failures will draw down two year again, but not as much as students who dropped out return, but fewer marginal students will mean empty seats in the Fall.

Spoiler, Summer Term enrollment is also in the shiatter, but Fall will be better, especially at 4 year institutions.
 
4 days ago  
And I know without growth we believe we're screwed but it is 3.7% really a plummet?
 
4 days ago  
If they're freaking over this, they definitely aren't ready for 2025.
 
4 days ago  
College enrollment rates have declined by an average of 1.67% per year since 2010.
 
4 days ago  
Which is actually a good thing

unless you're focused on a high-level job doctor lawyer engineer Sports

that often touted 1 million more over the life of your career is just not going to happen

most likely and if it does it's not because you went to college
 
4 days ago  

the money is in the banana stand: 1.) People realizing that going to college during a pandemic and paying full tuition for remote learning might not be worth it and they are better off taking a gap year.
2.) ...


I'm in a group with a ton of parents of college-aged kids. This is, BY FAR, the number one reason for kids not bothering to go for the 2020-2021 year. Tuiton is obscene already; paying that for remote is downright stupid.
 
4 days ago  

Bolebuns: Gin Buddy: You know when graduate enrollment goes up?

There are no JOBS so they stay in school.

You know how little grad teaching assistantships pay these days?  Probably do better with minimum wage.  I teach college and, at least at my school, undergrads are harder to enroll because scholarship money is scarce and grads get tuition waved.  But the stipend is for shiat for the grads.  Undergrads don't have jobs that pay enough and thus with tuition demands they cannot afford school.


You need to factor in the free tuition for the TAs.
 
4 days ago  

Spermbot: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

In California, a plumber's apprentice starts at $35k or more (in some areas it can be $50k). You need a high school diploma or GED and be physically able to do the work.  An apprenticeship takes about 5 years, so roughly equivalent to going to college for a master's degree, except most people don't get paid to go to college.  At the end of the apprenticeship you aren't saddled with a pile of student loan debt.  Plus, your job is never going to be outsourced to China.

If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

High schools need to stop pushing the lie that you are a failure if you don't go to college.  Not everyone is cut out for college and some people would be happier working in the trades instead of being an office drone.

You need to make money immediately in the skilled trades, because they take a toll on the bodies of tradespeople. If you're not in a supervisory role within a decade of your career, you won't last more than 20 years in it.


I don't know, my brother runs his own plumbing company and most of his plumbers / helpers are in their 50s.  I agree it takes a toll, they all have bad health issues, and none of them have even gone on to their Journeyman license.
 
4 days ago  
You mean people aren't paying top-dollar to go to a website that tells them to buy (physical) books and read them?

Why I never!

Maybe one of you student-loan-crushiees can explain it to us non-debt-havers. (we probably still won't get it, with the lack of debt and all)
 
4 days ago  
186 Million? Must be Light beer.
 
3 days ago  

DarkLancelot: Spermbot: OgreMagi: thealgorerhythm: yeah you could apprentice too or get skills somewhere else, but if you're trying to land a quality job on the strength of a HS diploma or GED then LOL

In California, a plumber's apprentice starts at $35k or more (in some areas it can be $50k). You need a high school diploma or GED and be physically able to do the work.  An apprenticeship takes about 5 years, so roughly equivalent to going to college for a master's degree, except most people don't get paid to go to college.  At the end of the apprenticeship you aren't saddled with a pile of student loan debt.  Plus, your job is never going to be outsourced to China.

If you choose to instead get a useless degree in college (art history is pretty damn useless), you can expect to get paid less than an apprentice plumber when you graduate, plus have the student loan debt riding your back for the next couple of decades.

High schools need to stop pushing the lie that you are a failure if you don't go to college.  Not everyone is cut out for college and some people would be happier working in the trades instead of being an office drone.

You need to make money immediately in the skilled trades, because they take a toll on the bodies of tradespeople. If you're not in a supervisory role within a decade of your career, you won't last more than 20 years in it.

I don't know, my brother runs his own plumbing company and most of his plumbers / helpers are in their 50s.  I agree it takes a toll, they all have bad health issues, and none of them have even gone on to their Journeyman license.


There is a classroom portion to get your journeyman license, though it may be possible to pass the test without the classroom.   A wild guess, those guys didn't want to put in the extra effort to pass the licensing exam.
 
3 days ago  
Here in VA and MD it requires no classroom work and is an open book test.  Mostly they don't do it because Journeyman doesn't get them more money, it's just a step to Master where if you want more money you start your own business.  At least that's what I gather from speaking with them.
 
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