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(Yahoo)   Pete Alonso: pitchers should be allowed to use sticky stuff. Also, MLB needs to stop changing the ball based on free agent classes   (sports.yahoo.com) divider line
    More: Interesting, Major League Baseball, Baseball, pitchers' use, Pete Alonso, MLB's own actions, National League, New York Mets, baseballs year  
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303 clicks; posted to Sports » on 10 Jun 2021 at 9:35 AM (10 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



42 Comments     (+0 »)
View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-06-10 9:23:22 AM  
Buncha hopped-up cheaters playing a kids game?
 
2021-06-10 9:27:00 AM  
Well, Pete can say that because he can hit just about anything they throw at him.
 
2021-06-10 9:56:49 AM  
i.insider.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-10 10:10:29 AM  
Ban the substances, move the mound back, move the fences back so homers will be less frequent.  Let's actually get the ball in play instead of watching nothing but homers, strikeouts, and walks.
 
2021-06-10 10:12:41 AM  

FrancoFile: Ban the substances, move the mound back, move the fences back so homers will be less frequent.  Let's actually get the ball in play instead of watching nothing but homers, strikeouts, and walks.


You want games to go on for 47 hours?
 
2021-06-10 10:15:12 AM  

NewportBarGuy: FrancoFile: Ban the substances, move the mound back, move the fences back so homers will be less frequent.  Let's actually get the ball in play instead of watching nothing but homers, strikeouts, and walks.

You want games to go on for 47 hours?


No leaving the batters box if you didn't make contact with the ball + pitch clock + limit pitcher subs in the middle of an inning.
 
2021-06-10 10:21:13 AM  

NewportBarGuy: FrancoFile: Ban the substances, move the mound back, move the fences back so homers will be less frequent.  Let's actually get the ball in play instead of watching nothing but homers, strikeouts, and walks.

You want games to go on for 47 hours?


Walks and strikeouts take more time than balls in play. Games are longer now than they ever were.
 
2021-06-10 10:24:36 AM  

NewportBarGuy: FrancoFile: Ban the substances, move the mound back, move the fences back so homers will be less frequent.  Let's actually get the ball in play instead of watching nothing but homers, strikeouts, and walks.

You want games to go on for 47 hours?


If you want to shorten games get rid of the DH. Those guys take way longer to bat than pitchers do
 
2021-06-10 10:31:14 AM  
"the game is too long and nothing happens" has never been a problem for the NFL. it's a distraction from baseball's real problems, like rampant cheating making pitchers too good, and teams not even trying to win because you can suck and still be wildly profitable
 
2021-06-10 10:33:51 AM  

mikaloyd: NewportBarGuy: FrancoFile: Ban the substances, move the mound back, move the fences back so homers will be less frequent.  Let's actually get the ball in play instead of watching nothing but homers, strikeouts, and walks.

You want games to go on for 47 hours?

If you want to shorten games get rid of the DH. Those guys take way longer to bat than pitchers do


C'mon... it's not always the DH... who can forget this?

i.gifer.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-10 10:37:00 AM  

FrancoFile: Ban the substances, move the mound back, move the fences back so homers will be less frequent.  Let's actually get the ball in play instead of watching nothing but homers, strikeouts, and walks.


Or just watch cricket...
 
2021-06-10 10:49:41 AM  
college women's fastpitch.   Best real baseball out there.
 
2021-06-10 11:00:42 AM  

ElwoodCuse: "the game is too long and nothing happens" has never been a problem for the NFL. it's a distraction from baseball's real problems, like rampant cheating making pitchers too good, and teams not even trying to win because you can suck and still be wildly profitable


Exhibit A: The Pirates.
Seriously, if there wasn't already a team in Miami, I'd think there was a Major League situation going on.
 
2021-06-10 11:04:20 AM  

NewportBarGuy: mikaloyd: NewportBarGuy: FrancoFile: Ban the substances, move the mound back, move the fences back so homers will be less frequent.  Let's actually get the ball in play instead of watching nothing but homers, strikeouts, and walks.

You want games to go on for 47 hours?

If you want to shorten games get rid of the DH. Those guys take way longer to bat than pitchers do

C'mon... it's not always the DH... who can forget this?

[i.gifer.com image 468x328] [View Full Size image _x_]


Ugh, I fugggin hated watching this guy bat.  I hated him even more as an analyst.  He keep stepping away from the mic between takes to readjust his tie.  CONSTANTLY.
 
2021-06-10 11:17:12 AM  
I'm tired of talking about the sticky stuff debate, just enforce the rules that already ban it.

I'm intrigued by his theory that MLB tweaks the ball each year depending on who'shiatting free agency, though.  Lots of good pitchers? Juice the ball for more homers.  Lots of good hitters? Deaden the ball to suppress offense.  I don't have the patience or skills to see if there's any statistical data that could back that up, but it's a hell of a conspiracy theory.  It just seems so unnecessary, though, when it's already pretty obvious that the league is suppressing free agent salaries anyway.
 
2021-06-10 11:18:39 AM  
Declare one usable substance, something mildly sticky. Put a little tub of it on the mound next to the rosin bag. Allow pitchers to use it as much as they like.

Enforce rules against all other substances harshly.
 
2021-06-10 11:26:17 AM  

Dafatone: Declare one usable substance, something mildly sticky. Put a little tub of it on the mound next to the rosin bag. Allow pitchers to use it as much as they like.

Enforce rules against all other substances harshly.


isn't rosin + sunscreen basically that now?
 
2021-06-10 11:36:21 AM  

doctorguilty: ElwoodCuse: "the game is too long and nothing happens" has never been a problem for the NFL. it's a distraction from baseball's real problems, like rampant cheating making pitchers too good, and teams not even trying to win because you can suck and still be wildly profitable

Exhibit A: The Pirates.
Seriously, if there wasn't already a team in Miami, I'd think there was a Major League situation going on.


From 2011-2019 (almost a full decade) the Pirates were in the top half the league in wins, including one of the highest single-season win totals in their 125+ year history. Yes, right now they're terrible because they're at the bottom of an overdue rebuild. I'd like to also point out that the last GM traded away 2 prospects who are now borderline MVP/CY Young candidates for an overpaid nothing because they were trying to win. Which literally flies in the face of the dumb "Duh, just like Major League" talking point that's been around since before the current owners were the owners
 
2021-06-10 11:43:20 AM  

TDWCom29: doctorguilty: ElwoodCuse: "the game is too long and nothing happens" has never been a problem for the NFL. it's a distraction from baseball's real problems, like rampant cheating making pitchers too good, and teams not even trying to win because you can suck and still be wildly profitable

Exhibit A: The Pirates.
Seriously, if there wasn't already a team in Miami, I'd think there was a Major League situation going on.

From 2011-2019 (almost a full decade) the Pirates were in the top half the league in wins, including one of the highest single-season win totals in their 125+ year history. Yes, right now they're terrible because they're at the bottom of an overdue rebuild. I'd like to also point out that the last GM traded away 2 prospects who are now borderline MVP/CY Young candidates for an overpaid nothing because they were trying to win. Which literally flies in the face of the dumb "Duh, just like Major League" talking point that's been around since before the current owners were the owners


By the way, let me point out I'm not saying the Pirates owners are like, great owners or anything. But they're more "average dopes" than "evil schemers"
 
2021-06-10 11:49:18 AM  

NewportBarGuy: FrancoFile: Ban the substances, move the mound back, move the fences back so homers will be less frequent.  Let's actually get the ball in play instead of watching nothing but homers, strikeouts, and walks.

You want games to go on for 47 hours?


Back in the day when pitchers were bad and there were a lot of balls in play, games last 2:30. A 6-3 ground out is a lot faster, time wise, than a home run and even a little faster than a flyout. "Ball in play" means the ball is put into play. A strikeout, walk, foul ball or home run is not in play.

You want the games to be shorts? Keep the goddamn batters in the batters box and limit pitching changes.
 
2021-06-10 11:54:47 AM  

virulent_loser: Dafatone: Declare one usable substance, something mildly sticky. Put a little tub of it on the mound next to the rosin bag. Allow pitchers to use it as much as they like.

Enforce rules against all other substances harshly.

isn't rosin + sunscreen basically that now?


Yes, but guys still have to pull the sunscreen from some hidden spot on their gear. Get rid of that part. Make use of the allowed substance entirely visible and make use of other substances entirely banned.
 
2021-06-10 11:57:42 AM  

TDWCom29: doctorguilty: ElwoodCuse: "the game is too long and nothing happens" has never been a problem for the NFL. it's a distraction from baseball's real problems, like rampant cheating making pitchers too good, and teams not even trying to win because you can suck and still be wildly profitable

Exhibit A: The Pirates.
Seriously, if there wasn't already a team in Miami, I'd think there was a Major League situation going on.

From 2011-2019 (almost a full decade) the Pirates were in the top half the league in wins, including one of the highest single-season win totals in their 125+ year history. Yes, right now they're terrible because they're at the bottom of an overdue rebuild. I'd like to also point out that the last GM traded away 2 prospects who are now borderline MVP/CY Young candidates for an overpaid nothing because they were trying to win. Which literally flies in the face of the dumb "Duh, just like Major League" talking point that's been around since before the current owners were the owners


They also could have considered signing, like, anyone for more then twenty bucks in that entire decade to try to win, instead of making bad trades.
 
2021-06-10 12:34:50 PM  
seems weird that baseball goes to all those lengths to depress the market for the skills available in free agency and then teams still hand out $200-$300 million contracts.
 
2021-06-10 12:38:13 PM  
It's an interesting theory, but ultimately it rests upon the idea that front offices and agents are extremely unsophisticated. Maybe that would have been true 20 years ago but nowadays everyone has an analytics department and everyone has data adjusted for league averages. There are easily available metrics like wRC+ that easily illustrate how a player is doing relative to the league. No GM is going to be like "just 20 homers, gee, that's no so great; guys like Steve Finley used to hit 40!"
 
2021-06-10 12:38:24 PM  

phyrkrakr: I'm intrigued by his theory that MLB tweaks the ball each year depending on who'shiatting free agency, though. Lots of good pitchers? Juice the ball for more homers. Lots of good hitters? Deaden the ball to suppress offense. I don't have the patience or skills to see if there's any statistical data that could back that up, but it's a hell of a conspiracy theory. It just seems so unnecessary, though, when it's already pretty obvious that the league is suppressing free agent salaries anyway.


There's pretty solid evidence out there, both statistical and physical, that the ball has changed several times in recent years, and the league has kinda-sorta admitted it.  As to why, that's hard to say.  It could easily be some random minor thing in the manufacturing process that lead to slight changes in the seams, or windings, or something - changes that would be nearly undetectable to you or I, but that would have a significant effect over the tens of thousands of at-bats in an MLB season.

That said, I don't think it's entirely crazy for the players to be a just a little bit suspicious here.  There is a loooong history of shady and/or illegal behavior to suppress free agent salaries, and still a lot of bad blood among the players because of it.  The league/owners have been busted several times in federal court for collusion, to the tune of hundreds of millions of dollars.  Said collusion is ultimately why the strike in '94 happened, why the Expos got robbed of their best & only shot at a World Series, and is the main reason why the Rockies, Marlins, Rays, and Diamondbacks exist.  It's also the reason why, when the collective bargaining agreement expires at the end of this year, there's a pretty decent chance of another work stoppage/strike before the 2022 season.
 
2021-06-10 12:54:49 PM  

Super Chronic: It's an interesting theory, but ultimately it rests upon the idea that front offices and agents are extremely unsophisticated. Maybe that would have been true 20 years ago but nowadays everyone has an analytics department and everyone has data adjusted for league averages. There are easily available metrics like wRC+ that easily illustrate how a player is doing relative to the league. No GM is going to be like "just 20 homers, gee, that's no so great; guys like Steve Finley used to hit 40!"


Oh, I dunno about that.  The teams, for sure, have sophisticated analytics, but the purpose of such a ball-altering conspiracy, if it existed, wouldn't be to fool the GMs, but for them to theoretically justify offering smaller free agent contracts.  So that GMs/owners across the league could say to a player's agent "gee, why should I pay your guy X dollars when he only hit 20 homers last year and Steve Finley used to hit 40?"
 
2021-06-10 12:58:16 PM  

Forty-Three: Super Chronic: It's an interesting theory, but ultimately it rests upon the idea that front offices and agents are extremely unsophisticated. Maybe that would have been true 20 years ago but nowadays everyone has an analytics department and everyone has data adjusted for league averages. There are easily available metrics like wRC+ that easily illustrate how a player is doing relative to the league. No GM is going to be like "just 20 homers, gee, that's no so great; guys like Steve Finley used to hit 40!"

Oh, I dunno about that.  The teams, for sure, have sophisticated analytics, but the purpose of such a ball-altering conspiracy, if it existed, wouldn't be to fool the GMs, but for them to theoretically justify offering smaller free agent contracts.  So that GMs/owners across the league could say to a player's agent "gee, why should I pay your guy X dollars when he only hit 20 homers last year and Steve Finley used to hit 40?"


Well, the agents also have access to analytics. And for it to succeed, you also have to assume collusion between teams, which... well, it's happened before, so who knows. But absent collusion, the smart GMs will outbid the GMs who are trying to pull a fast one.
 
2021-06-10 1:08:59 PM  
Alright you pitchers, the only thing you can use from now on is the essence of peter north.
 
2021-06-10 1:09:20 PM  
seems weird that baseball goes to all those lengths to depress the market for the skills available in free agency and then teams still hand out $200-$300 million contracts.

$200 to $300 million IS depressing the market when you compare it to league revenue. $200-$300 mill was "best player in the league" money for Arod almost 20 years ago.
 
2021-06-10 1:21:17 PM  

Dafatone: virulent_loser: Dafatone: Declare one usable substance, something mildly sticky. Put a little tub of it on the mound next to the rosin bag. Allow pitchers to use it as much as they like.

Enforce rules against all other substances harshly.

isn't rosin + sunscreen basically that now?

Yes, but guys still have to pull the sunscreen from some hidden spot on their gear. Get rid of that part. Make use of the allowed substance entirely visible and make use of other substances entirely banned.


Either the league will start to crack down on the illegal stuff or the illegal stuff is going to keep being used. It doesn't matter what you move into the legal category.

The legal stuff is already entirely visible. Use of other substances are already entirely banned. No matter what you make legal, there will be better stuff that is illegal and pitchers will cheat and use it. Until the league makes the punishment more severe than the benefit, the illegal stuff will stick around, NO MATTER WHAT YOU MAKE LEGAL.
 
2021-06-10 1:27:25 PM  

tedduque: Dafatone: virulent_loser: Dafatone: Declare one usable substance, something mildly sticky. Put a little tub of it on the mound next to the rosin bag. Allow pitchers to use it as much as they like.

Enforce rules against all other substances harshly.

isn't rosin + sunscreen basically that now?

Yes, but guys still have to pull the sunscreen from some hidden spot on their gear. Get rid of that part. Make use of the allowed substance entirely visible and make use of other substances entirely banned.

Either the league will start to crack down on the illegal stuff or the illegal stuff is going to keep being used. It doesn't matter what you move into the legal category.

The legal stuff is already entirely visible. Use of other substances are already entirely banned. No matter what you make legal, there will be better stuff that is illegal and pitchers will cheat and use it. Until the league makes the punishment more severe than the benefit, the illegal stuff will stick around, NO MATTER WHAT YOU MAKE LEGAL.


So... make the punishment more severe than the benefit.
 
2021-06-10 1:28:03 PM  

Super Chronic: Forty-Three: Super Chronic: It's an interesting theory, but ultimately it rests upon the idea that front offices and agents are extremely unsophisticated. Maybe that would have been true 20 years ago but nowadays everyone has an analytics department and everyone has data adjusted for league averages. There are easily available metrics like wRC+ that easily illustrate how a player is doing relative to the league. No GM is going to be like "just 20 homers, gee, that's no so great; guys like Steve Finley used to hit 40!"

Oh, I dunno about that.  The teams, for sure, have sophisticated analytics, but the purpose of such a ball-altering conspiracy, if it existed, wouldn't be to fool the GMs, but for them to theoretically justify offering smaller free agent contracts.  So that GMs/owners across the league could say to a player's agent "gee, why should I pay your guy X dollars when he only hit 20 homers last year and Steve Finley used to hit 40?"

Well, the agents also have access to analytics. And for it to succeed, you also have to assume collusion between teams, which... well, it's happened before, so who knows. But absent collusion, the smart GMs will outbid the GMs who are trying to pull a fast one.


I'd argue they aren't trying to fool the agents or analytics folks, they just need to get the folks who buy the product to buy in and they're good to go.

"Hey Sports Turd, first time long time, and I gotta say I find it hard to believe that Slugger McHomer won't take the $12-million-a-year offer when he only hit 20 home runs last year, when guys like Steve Finley hit friggin FORTY and didn't make that kind of dough! These players are so greedy, and I'm sick of it! Anyways, I'll listen to your answer off the air, love you guys".
 
2021-06-10 1:29:08 PM  

Dafatone: tedduque: Dafatone: virulent_loser: Dafatone: Declare one usable substance, something mildly sticky. Put a little tub of it on the mound next to the rosin bag. Allow pitchers to use it as much as they like.

Enforce rules against all other substances harshly.

isn't rosin + sunscreen basically that now?

Yes, but guys still have to pull the sunscreen from some hidden spot on their gear. Get rid of that part. Make use of the allowed substance entirely visible and make use of other substances entirely banned.

Either the league will start to crack down on the illegal stuff or the illegal stuff is going to keep being used. It doesn't matter what you move into the legal category.

The legal stuff is already entirely visible. Use of other substances are already entirely banned. No matter what you make legal, there will be better stuff that is illegal and pitchers will cheat and use it. Until the league makes the punishment more severe than the benefit, the illegal stuff will stick around, NO MATTER WHAT YOU MAKE LEGAL.

So... make the punishment more severe than the benefit.


That's what I said.  You seemed to be saying the solution was to make more stuff legal and visible. That won't work. It is what we have now.
 
2021-06-10 1:29:13 PM  

Super Chronic: Forty-Three: Super Chronic: It's an interesting theory, but ultimately it rests upon the idea that front offices and agents are extremely unsophisticated. Maybe that would have been true 20 years ago but nowadays everyone has an analytics department and everyone has data adjusted for league averages. There are easily available metrics like wRC+ that easily illustrate how a player is doing relative to the league. No GM is going to be like "just 20 homers, gee, that's no so great; guys like Steve Finley used to hit 40!"

Oh, I dunno about that.  The teams, for sure, have sophisticated analytics, but the purpose of such a ball-altering conspiracy, if it existed, wouldn't be to fool the GMs, but for them to theoretically justify offering smaller free agent contracts.  So that GMs/owners across the league could say to a player's agent "gee, why should I pay your guy X dollars when he only hit 20 homers last year and Steve Finley used to hit 40?"

Well, the agents also have access to analytics. And for it to succeed, you also have to assume collusion between teams, which... well, it's happened before, so who knows. But absent collusion, the smart GMs will outbid the GMs who are trying to pull a fast one.


Right.  Collusion, or something similar, is basically what is being hinted at here.  Nobody's going to actually say it out loud without any proof, because that would be the players accusing the owners of doing something illegal (again), and things would get ugly fast.  Could be that the players really do think collusion is happening.  Could be the players being extra vigilant and warning the owners to keep their noses clean and not try any funny stuff ahead of negotiating the new CBA for next year.  Like you said, who knows.
 
2021-06-10 1:56:19 PM  

tedduque: Dafatone: tedduque: Dafatone: virulent_loser: Dafatone: Declare one usable substance, something mildly sticky. Put a little tub of it on the mound next to the rosin bag. Allow pitchers to use it as much as they like.

Enforce rules against all other substances harshly.

isn't rosin + sunscreen basically that now?

Yes, but guys still have to pull the sunscreen from some hidden spot on their gear. Get rid of that part. Make use of the allowed substance entirely visible and make use of other substances entirely banned.

Either the league will start to crack down on the illegal stuff or the illegal stuff is going to keep being used. It doesn't matter what you move into the legal category.

The legal stuff is already entirely visible. Use of other substances are already entirely banned. No matter what you make legal, there will be better stuff that is illegal and pitchers will cheat and use it. Until the league makes the punishment more severe than the benefit, the illegal stuff will stick around, NO MATTER WHAT YOU MAKE LEGAL.

So... make the punishment more severe than the benefit.

That's what I said.  You seemed to be saying the solution was to make more stuff legal and visible. That won't work. It is what we have now.


What we have now is a strict rule against using substances that isn't enforced at all.

Draw clear lines about what is and isn't allowed. Then actually enforce the rules.

Making it so that allowed substances come from a visible tub on the mound removes any wiggle room as to substances on a hat or glove or whatnot.
 
2021-06-10 1:58:31 PM  
+200 RPM is significant. Get rid of the sticky stuff as per the rules as they stand.
Drysdale's grease ball was "illegal". This spider stuff is too.
Will players continue to try to get an edge? Of course. The solution is to catch the cheaters and move on. That's how this has always worked.
Enforce existing rules and you're good. The problem is that the league is ignoring obvious cheating.
Quit making up new rules and enforce the existing rules. This is not rocket science.
 
2021-06-10 2:02:18 PM  

Forty-Three: Super Chronic: Forty-Three: Super Chronic: It's an interesting theory, but ultimately it rests upon the idea that front offices and agents are extremely unsophisticated. Maybe that would have been true 20 years ago but nowadays everyone has an analytics department and everyone has data adjusted for league averages. There are easily available metrics like wRC+ that easily illustrate how a player is doing relative to the league. No GM is going to be like "just 20 homers, gee, that's no so great; guys like Steve Finley used to hit 40!"

Oh, I dunno about that.  The teams, for sure, have sophisticated analytics, but the purpose of such a ball-altering conspiracy, if it existed, wouldn't be to fool the GMs, but for them to theoretically justify offering smaller free agent contracts.  So that GMs/owners across the league could say to a player's agent "gee, why should I pay your guy X dollars when he only hit 20 homers last year and Steve Finley used to hit 40?"

Well, the agents also have access to analytics. And for it to succeed, you also have to assume collusion between teams, which... well, it's happened before, so who knows. But absent collusion, the smart GMs will outbid the GMs who are trying to pull a fast one.

Right.  Collusion, or something similar, is basically what is being hinted at here.  Nobody's going to actually say it out loud without any proof, because that would be the players accusing the owners of doing something illegal (again), and things would get ugly fast.  Could be that the players really do think collusion is happening.  Could be the players being extra vigilant and warning the owners to keep their noses clean and not try any funny stuff ahead of negotiating the new CBA for next year.  Like you said, who knows.


There is real and widespread evidence that spin rates and ball movement are up markedly in 2021, and batting is remarkably worse. And we're not talking "by a fraction." Record for no-hitters in one season (since 1900) is seven. That's happened 4 times, all fairly recently thanks to more teams in the league - 1990, 1991, 2012 and 2015.

So far in 2021, with the season not even at the halfway point? Six no-hitters.

So, there is a DRAMATIC increase in the ability of pitchers to grip the ball. They can spin the ball much faster, which means more movement, they can hit higher speeds than they have before because the ball isn't slipping.

Except....the last 10 days. Suddenly, spin rates are back to 2018 averages, and runs have soared.
 
2021-06-10 2:22:59 PM  
Dafatone:Making it so that allowed substances come from a visible tub on the mound removes any wiggle room as to substances on a hat or glove or whatnot.

I'm not sure which part of this you think doesn't already exist. The legal stuff is already visible and there is no wiggle room. Pitchers are still going to use the illegal and better stuff and try to keep it hidden, just like they do now.
 
2021-06-10 2:40:50 PM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: Forty-Three: Super Chronic: Forty-Three: Super Chronic: It's an interesting theory, but ultimately it rests upon the idea that front offices and agents are extremely unsophisticated. Maybe that would have been true 20 years ago but nowadays everyone has an analytics department and everyone has data adjusted for league averages. There are easily available metrics like wRC+ that easily illustrate how a player is doing relative to the league. No GM is going to be like "just 20 homers, gee, that's no so great; guys like Steve Finley used to hit 40!"

Oh, I dunno about that.  The teams, for sure, have sophisticated analytics, but the purpose of such a ball-altering conspiracy, if it existed, wouldn't be to fool the GMs, but for them to theoretically justify offering smaller free agent contracts.  So that GMs/owners across the league could say to a player's agent "gee, why should I pay your guy X dollars when he only hit 20 homers last year and Steve Finley used to hit 40?"

Well, the agents also have access to analytics. And for it to succeed, you also have to assume collusion between teams, which... well, it's happened before, so who knows. But absent collusion, the smart GMs will outbid the GMs who are trying to pull a fast one.

Right.  Collusion, or something similar, is basically what is being hinted at here.  Nobody's going to actually say it out loud without any proof, because that would be the players accusing the owners of doing something illegal (again), and things would get ugly fast.  Could be that the players really do think collusion is happening.  Could be the players being extra vigilant and warning the owners to keep their noses clean and not try any funny stuff ahead of negotiating the new CBA for next year.  Like you said, who knows.

There is real and widespread evidence that spin rates and ball movement are up markedly in 2021, and batting is remarkably worse. And we're not talking "by a fraction." Record for no-hitters in one season (since 1900) is ...


Yup, big time.  For whatever reason, pitchers, as a whole have been more blatant about using sticky stuff other than rosin, and getting away with it.  The most extreme are those using a substance called "Spider Tack" which is used in strongman competitions for lifting boulders and shiat.  And funny enough, Trevor Bauer, like him or hate him, has been openly saying this for some time.  Several years ago he openly tweeted about how he had measured that using the right substance could boost a typical pitch's spin rate by something like 500rpm.  Well, lo and behold, those are just about the types of numbers seen in certain situations this year.
 
2021-06-10 2:56:07 PM  

mikaloyd: NewportBarGuy: FrancoFile: Ban the substances, move the mound back, move the fences back so homers will be less frequent.  Let's actually get the ball in play instead of watching nothing but homers, strikeouts, and walks.

You want games to go on for 47 hours?

If you want to shorten games get rid of the DH. Those guys take way longer to bat than pitchers do


Well yah, with a DH pitchers batting time is basically 0, it's hard to be faster than that regardless of position.
 
2021-06-10 8:01:35 PM  

Dafatone: TDWCom29: doctorguilty: ElwoodCuse: "the game is too long and nothing happens" has never been a problem for the NFL. it's a distraction from baseball's real problems, like rampant cheating making pitchers too good, and teams not even trying to win because you can suck and still be wildly profitable

Exhibit A: The Pirates.
Seriously, if there wasn't already a team in Miami, I'd think there was a Major League situation going on.

From 2011-2019 (almost a full decade) the Pirates were in the top half the league in wins, including one of the highest single-season win totals in their 125+ year history. Yes, right now they're terrible because they're at the bottom of an overdue rebuild. I'd like to also point out that the last GM traded away 2 prospects who are now borderline MVP/CY Young candidates for an overpaid nothing because they were trying to win. Which literally flies in the face of the dumb "Duh, just like Major League" talking point that's been around since before the current owners were the owners

They also could have considered signing, like, anyone for more then twenty bucks in that entire decade to try to win, instead of making bad trades.


They signed Liriano, AJ Burnett, and Russell Martin, signed McCutchen and others to (relatively) big extensions, and traded for a cadre of others (including the worst trade in their history). But because they didn't sign Albert Pujols (or whoever) they weren't trying to win
 
2021-06-11 10:12:28 AM  

TDWCom29: Dafatone: TDWCom29: doctorguilty: ElwoodCuse: "the game is too long and nothing happens" has never been a problem for the NFL. it's a distraction from baseball's real problems, like rampant cheating making pitchers too good, and teams not even trying to win because you can suck and still be wildly profitable

Exhibit A: The Pirates.
Seriously, if there wasn't already a team in Miami, I'd think there was a Major League situation going on.

From 2011-2019 (almost a full decade) the Pirates were in the top half the league in wins, including one of the highest single-season win totals in their 125+ year history. Yes, right now they're terrible because they're at the bottom of an overdue rebuild. I'd like to also point out that the last GM traded away 2 prospects who are now borderline MVP/CY Young candidates for an overpaid nothing because they were trying to win. Which literally flies in the face of the dumb "Duh, just like Major League" talking point that's been around since before the current owners were the owners

They also could have considered signing, like, anyone for more then twenty bucks in that entire decade to try to win, instead of making bad trades.

They signed Liriano, AJ Burnett, and Russell Martin, signed McCutchen and others to (relatively) big extensions, and traded for a cadre of others (including the worst trade in their history). But because they didn't sign Albert Pujols (or whoever) they weren't trying to win


They signed Liriano to a decently large contract and then traded him after a few years.

They traded for old, washed up AJ Burnett when the Yankees were tired of his contract. To the Pirates' credit, he did pretty well.

They signed Russell Martin for like 2 years, about 7m a year. He was probably worth a lot more than that, given what we've learned about pitch framing.

Those are good moves. If those are the biggest moves the team made money wise, that's not much at all to hang their hat on.
 
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