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(National Geographic)   Global treaty to regulate plastic is coming to a landfill near you   (nationalgeographic.com) divider line
    More: Spiffy, United Nations, Waste management, Plastic, simple plastic bag, Environmentalism, Treaty, Waste, Pollution  
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642 clicks; posted to Politics » on 10 Jun 2021 at 5:18 AM (6 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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6 days ago  
But may freedumbs!
 
6 days ago  
Save The Turtles | Robot Chicken | Adult Swim
Youtube pNJ2gNDf1Qg
 
6 days ago  
Republicans will be against it. For whatever the fark reason.
 
6 days ago  
Why would we need that? Let's see...

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
6 days ago  

Dedmon: Republicans will be against it. For whatever the fark reason.


I'm sure you don't throw away plastic, right? Just like you don't buy things made in China, don't drive a car, and you don't eat meat?

This isn't a Republican issue. This is a western lifestyle issue in which we are all guilty.
 
6 days ago  
Protected by paywalls, the treaty will be neigh unstoppable. Will tablet mode allow it to be bypassed?
 
6 days ago  

Shaggy_C: Dedmon: Republicans will be against it. For whatever the fark reason.

I'm sure you don't throw away plastic, right? Just like you don't buy things made in China, don't drive a car, and you don't eat meat?

This isn't a Republican issue. This is a western lifestyle issue in which we are all guilty.


So why do Republicans have a problem with addressing the issue, Shaggy?
 
6 days ago  

Shaggy_C: Dedmon: Republicans will be against it. For whatever the fark reason.

I'm sure you don't throw away plastic, right? Just like you don't buy things made in China, don't drive a car, and you don't eat meat?

This isn't a Republican issue. This is a western lifestyle issue in which we are all guilty.


He's not saying that republicans are solely guilty.  He's SAYING that republicans will be AUTOMATICALLY against it for reasons.  Reasons like, "If'in them thar dimmycrats are fer it, then Iiiiiii'm agin it!"
 
6 days ago  

Shaggy_C: Dedmon: Republicans will be against it. For whatever the fark reason.

I'm sure you don't throw away plastic, right? Just like you don't buy things made in China, don't drive a car, and you don't eat meat?

This isn't a Republican issue. This is a western lifestyle issue in which we are all guilty.


Also:
thenib.comView Full Size
 
6 days ago  
About time. Microplastics are falling like rain from the air all over the world. They're everywhere. Regular old full sized plastic waste is killing seabirds and shiatty up everything in general.

Plastics are brilliant materials in so many ways but using them to make a bunch of single use stuff that instantly becomes trash but sticks around forever seems kinda dumb.
 
6 days ago  

Shaggy_C: Dedmon: Republicans will be against it. For whatever the fark reason.

I'm sure you don't throw away plastic, right? Just like you don't buy things made in China, don't drive a car, and you don't eat meat?

This isn't a Republican issue. This is a western lifestyle issue in which we are all guilty.


Which will be fought by Republicans.
 
6 days ago  

Shaggy_C: Dedmon: Republicans will be against it. For whatever the fark reason.

I'm sure you don't throw away plastic, right? Just like you don't buy things made in China, don't drive a car, and you don't eat meat?

This isn't a Republican issue. This is a western lifestyle issue in which we are all guilty.


And republicans will oppose any measures taken to try and minimize the impact, which was what the comment you chose to bsabsplooge all over was pointing at, because of course they will.
 
6 days ago  
The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.
 
6 days ago  
Well this be an actual treat, ratified by the Senate? Or just another presidential agreement tossed into the trash bin of history when the 'other' team gains power?
 
6 days ago  
treatY
 
6 days ago  

Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.


You mean the plastic bottle deposit we already pay? Yeah, that's definitely worked its "magic"
 
6 days ago  

Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.


Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.
 
6 days ago  

a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.


Force manufacturers to bear the full life cycle cost of their products and packaging, cradle to grave, and you will see a change.
 
6 days ago  

Shaggy_C: Dedmon: Republicans will be against it. For whatever the fark reason.

I'm sure you don't throw away plastic, right? Just like you don't buy things made in China, don't drive a car, and you don't eat meat?

This isn't a Republican issue. This is a western lifestyle issue in which we are all guilty.


We're all ostensibly against six-year-olds being shot at school, too. And yet.....
 
6 days ago  

Farkage: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.

Force manufacturers to bear the full life cycle cost of their products and packaging, cradle to grave, and you will see a change.


I suspect that the manufacturers will pass that cost to consumers.

I'm willing to pay higher costs, but I hate to see the manufacturers get away with that.

But they always do.
 
6 days ago  

Dedmon: So why do Republicans have a problem with addressing the issue, Shaggy?


Because they're traditionally beholden to big business. And they're generally assholes.

That doesn't change the basic fact that we as consumers drive the amount of plastics being created and thrown away. And I'm tired of this mindset that "well, we can't do anything to change the world unless a federal law is passed, so may as well give up. We should blame Republicans."

What happened to grassroots environmental activism? Boycotts? Local laws like plastic bag bans?

This whole "helpless left" mentality is so disappointing.
 
6 days ago  

qorkfiend: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

You mean the plastic bottle deposit we already pay? Yeah, that's definitely worked its "magic"


Not in this country.
 
6 days ago  

Gpzjock: qorkfiend: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

You mean the plastic bottle deposit we already pay? Yeah, that's definitely worked its "magic"

Not in this country.


Interesting, I didn't know I lived somewhere other than the US.
 
6 days ago  

a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.


The only way to justify reduced plastic production is to reduce oil production. Globally we only consume 6% of the oil waste product to make plastic. Reducing that without reducing the oil generated just moved the waste into the environment quicker.
 
6 days ago  

qorkfiend: Gpzjock: qorkfiend: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

You mean the plastic bottle deposit we already pay? Yeah, that's definitely worked its "magic"

Not in this country.

Interesting, I didn't know I lived somewhere other than the US.


You assume I do to then.
 
6 days ago  

Shaggy_C: Dedmon: So why do Republicans have a problem with addressing the issue, Shaggy?

Because they're traditionally beholden to big business. And they're generally assholes.

That doesn't change the basic fact that we as consumers drive the amount of plastics being created and thrown away. And I'm tired of this mindset that "well, we can't do anything to change the world unless a federal law is passed, so may as well give up. We should blame Republicans."

What happened to grassroots environmental activism? Boycotts? Local laws like plastic bag bans?

This whole "helpless left" mentality is so disappointing.


And when grassroots efforts do get legislation in place to do something about the problem, conservatives kill it.

https://www.governing.com/archive/stl​-​plastic-bag-bans.html
 
6 days ago  

Shaggy_C: Dedmon: So why do Republicans have a problem with addressing the issue, Shaggy?

Because they're traditionally beholden to big business. And they're generally assholes.

That doesn't change the basic fact that we as consumers drive the amount of plastics being created and thrown away. And I'm tired of this mindset that "well, we can't do anything to change the world unless a federal law is passed, so may as well give up. We should blame Republicans."

What happened to grassroots environmental activism? Boycotts? Local laws like plastic bag bans?

This whole "helpless left" mentality is so disappointing.


oh my god dudgossip whataboutisming everything and show me where I'm blaming the Republicans and for a world wide issue, when in fact I'm saying Republicans are against doing anything to fix it  that's all.

And you act as if you aren't a Republican lol
 
6 days ago  

Farkage: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.

Force manufacturers to bear the full life cycle cost of their products and packaging, cradle to grave, and you will see a change.


Exactly, the automotive industry could lead that and packaging could follow. Until we make the deposit significant it won't work.
Barr's in Scotland had a significant deposit bon their glass bottles for years. Kids would scavenge them to form a "glass cheque". Value is key.
 
6 days ago  

a_room_with_a_moose: Farkage: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.

Force manufacturers to bear the full life cycle cost of their products and packaging, cradle to grave, and you will see a change.

I suspect that the manufacturers will pass that cost to consumers.

I'm willing to pay higher costs, but I hate to see the manufacturers get away with that.

But they always do.


The consumers are the ones dumping them, so it makes sense. Oh, are we all consumers? About time we took responsibility for our own actions for a farking change.
 
6 days ago  

Gpzjock: qorkfiend: Gpzjock: qorkfiend: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

You mean the plastic bottle deposit we already pay? Yeah, that's definitely worked its "magic"

Not in this country.

Interesting, I didn't know I lived somewhere other than the US.

You assume I do to then.


Oh, so you're opining on something you have no experience with and rejecting the statements of people who do? Brilliant plan.
 
6 days ago  

Gpzjock: Farkage: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.

Force manufacturers to bear the full life cycle cost of their products and packaging, cradle to grave, and you will see a change.

Exactly, the automotive industry could lead that and packaging could follow. Until we make the deposit significant it won't work.
Barr's in Scotland had a significant deposit bon their glass bottles for years. Kids would scavenge them to form a "glass cheque". Value is key.


Ah, so it's not a "nominal value" any more, it's "significant value"
 
6 days ago  

qorkfiend: Gpzjock: qorkfiend: Gpzjock: qorkfiend: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

You mean the plastic bottle deposit we already pay? Yeah, that's definitely worked its "magic"

Not in this country.

Interesting, I didn't know I lived somewhere other than the US.

You assume I do to then.

Oh, so you're opining on something you have no experience with and rejecting the statements of people who do? Brilliant plan.


Not at all I am opinioning on something that worked in Holland for glass that I had experience of, thanks. If it doesn't work for your system you are just doing it wrong.
A crate of Grolsch was 36 guilders just for the packaging, 1.25 guilders per glass bottle and 12 guilders for the plastic crate. Damn right they got all the bottles back and the farking crate, but don't let American dumbass exceptionalism get in the way of other people's experiences.
 
6 days ago  

Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.

The only way to justify reduced plastic production is to reduce oil production. Globally we only consume 6% of the oil waste product to make plastic. Reducing that without reducing the oil generated just moved the waste into the environment quicker.


So the only thing that can be done with oil waste is to make plastics with it?

That doesn't sound quite right.

Plastics manufacturing is the easiest and cheapest thing to do with oil waste. I doubt it is the only thing.
 
6 days ago  

qorkfiend: Gpzjock: Farkage: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.

Force manufacturers to bear the full life cycle cost of their products and packaging, cradle to grave, and you will see a change.

Exactly, the automotive industry could lead that and packaging could follow. Until we make the deposit significant it won't work.
Barr's in Scotland had a significant deposit bon their glass bottles for years. Kids would scavenge them to form a "glass cheque". Value is key.

Ah, so it's not a "nominal value" any more, it's "significant value"


36 guilders was nominal to some people, significant to others, work it out according to your personal wealth.
 
6 days ago  

Gpzjock: qorkfiend: Gpzjock: qorkfiend: Gpzjock: qorkfiend: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

You mean the plastic bottle deposit we already pay? Yeah, that's definitely worked its "magic"

Not in this country.

Interesting, I didn't know I lived somewhere other than the US.

You assume I do to then.

Oh, so you're opining on something you have no experience with and rejecting the statements of people who do? Brilliant plan.

Not at all I am opinioning on something that worked in Holland for glass that I had experience of, thanks. If it doesn't work for your system you are just doing it wrong.
A crate of Grolsch was 36 guilders just for the packaging, 1.25 guilders per glass bottle and 12 guilders for the plastic crate. Damn right they got all the bottles back and the farking crate, but don't let American dumbass exceptionalism get in the way of other people's experiences.


So again, it's not a "nominal" value like you tried to claim the first time.

Say what you mean next time and you won't look like an idiot.
 
6 days ago  

Gpzjock: qorkfiend: Gpzjock: Farkage: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.

Force manufacturers to bear the full life cycle cost of their products and packaging, cradle to grave, and you will see a change.

Exactly, the automotive industry could lead that and packaging could follow. Until we make the deposit significant it won't work.
Barr's in Scotland had a significant deposit bon their glass bottles for years. Kids would scavenge them to form a "glass cheque". Value is key.

Ah, so it's not a "nominal value" any more, it's "significant value"

36 guilders was nominal to some people, significant to others, work it out according to your personal wealth.


lol

"Words have only the meanings I want them to"
 
6 days ago  

a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.

The only way to justify reduced plastic production is to reduce oil production. Globally we only consume 6% of the oil waste product to make plastic. Reducing that without reducing the oil generated just moved the waste into the environment quicker.

So the only thing that can be done with oil waste is to make plastics with it?

That doesn't sound quite right.

Plastics manufacturing is the easiest and cheapest thing to do with oil waste. I doubt it is the only thing.


CO², benzene rings, general pollution, take your pick.
 
6 days ago  

qorkfiend: Gpzjock: qorkfiend: Gpzjock: Farkage: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.

Force manufacturers to bear the full life cycle cost of their products and packaging, cradle to grave, and you will see a change.

Exactly, the automotive industry could lead that and packaging could follow. Until we make the deposit significant it won't work.
Barr's in Scotland had a significant deposit bon their glass bottles for years. Kids would scavenge them to form a "glass cheque". Value is key.

Ah, so it's not a "nominal value" any more, it's "significant value"

36 guilders was nominal to some people, significant to others, work it out according to your personal wealth.

lol

"Words have only the meanings I want them to"


I just didn't explain it well, sorry.
Nominal relative to the impact of not doing it.
Trifling compared to the damage it causes and the actual wealth people earn.
Significant to someone poor, negligible to most people with jobs.
 
6 days ago  

Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Farkage: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.

Force manufacturers to bear the full life cycle cost of their products and packaging, cradle to grave, and you will see a change.

I suspect that the manufacturers will pass that cost to consumers.

I'm willing to pay higher costs, but I hate to see the manufacturers get away with that.

But they always do.

The consumers are the ones dumping them, so it makes sense. Oh, are we all consumers? About time we took responsibility for our own actions for a farking change.


Again, even if consumers tried to be responsible, how do you address the fact that recycling concerns can't find buyers for their plastic products?

I have done everything I can to reduce my plastics use. But I have time and money.

Go to the store. Try and buy a product that has no plastics in the product or packaging.

Most consumers are willing to be more environmentally conscious. Companies don't offer a lot of choice.
 
6 days ago  

Gpzjock: qorkfiend: Gpzjock: qorkfiend: Gpzjock: Farkage: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.

Force manufacturers to bear the full life cycle cost of their products and packaging, cradle to grave, and you will see a change.

Exactly, the automotive industry could lead that and packaging could follow. Until we make the deposit significant it won't work.
Barr's in Scotland had a significant deposit bon their glass bottles for years. Kids would scavenge them to form a "glass cheque". Value is key.

Ah, so it's not a "nominal value" any more, it's "significant value"

36 guilders was nominal to some people, significant to others, work it out according to your personal wealth.

lol

"Words have only the meanings I want them to"

I just didn't explain it well, sorry.
Nominal relative to the impact of not doing it.
Trifling compared to the damage it causes and the actual wealth people earn.
Significant to someone poor, negligible to most people with jobs.


Fair enough. We've tried the nominal approach in the US and (unsurprisingly) it doesn't work.
 
6 days ago  

Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.

The only way to justify reduced plastic production is to reduce oil production. Globally we only consume 6% of the oil waste product to make plastic. Reducing that without reducing the oil generated just moved the waste into the environment quicker.

So the only thing that can be done with oil waste is to make plastics with it?

That doesn't sound quite right.

Plastics manufacturing is the easiest and cheapest thing to do with oil waste. I doubt it is the only thing.

CO², benzene rings, general pollution, take your pick.


And you think making plastics keeps those pollutants out of the environment?

I'm starting to think you know less on the subject than I do.

I've worked to promote statewide recycling programs for years. Watching you compare plastics recycling to glass recycling has given me a sensible chuckle.
 
6 days ago  
Landfill nearest to the user is exactly where that plastic should go
 
6 days ago  

a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Farkage: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.

Force manufacturers to bear the full life cycle cost of their products and packaging, cradle to grave, and you will see a change.

I suspect that the manufacturers will pass that cost to consumers.

I'm willing to pay higher costs, but I hate to see the manufacturers get away with that.

But they always do.

The consumers are the ones dumping them, so it makes sense. Oh, are we all consumers? About time we took responsibility for our own actions for a farking change.

Again, even if consumers tried to be responsible, how do you address the fact that recycling concerns can't find buyers for their plastic products?

I have done everything I can to reduce my plastics use. But I have time and money.

Go to the store. Try and buy a product that has no plastics in the product or packaging.

Most consumers are willing to be more environmentally conscious. Companies don't offer a lot of choice.


I work for a company that recycles metal, cardboard and plastic into packaging. It runs the civic cardboard collection local to all its factories and generates products out of it through reprocessing. The attitude of not doing this is the problem. Making the producer of packaging responsible for its reprocessing makes sense. Unfortunately that doesn't happen to all packaging. The plastics we generate should to be sustainable in this way and reprocessed into more packaging for other purposes. If the whole of the system worked like that we would significantly reduce the environmental impact of all packaging, metal, cardboard and plastic. The inherent cheapness of virgin plastic is the problem. Holding the producer responsible for its reprocessing is the best way to ensure it happens, applying a cost or deposit that makes it return is also a good method to combine with it.
It isn't there for most plastics and it needs to be.
My employer has won many awards for its behaviour. The rest of the industry, not so much.
 
6 days ago  

a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.

The only way to justify reduced plastic production is to reduce oil production. Globally we only consume 6% of the oil waste product to make plastic. Reducing that without reducing the oil generated just moved the waste into the environment quicker.

So the only thing that can be done with oil waste is to make plastics with it?

That doesn't sound quite right.

Plastics manufacturing is the easiest and cheapest thing to do with oil waste. I doubt it is the only thing.

CO², benzene rings, general pollution, take your pick.

And you think making plastics keeps those pollutants out of the environment?

I'm starting to think you know less on the subject than I do.

I've worked to promote statewide recycling programs for years. Watching you compare plastics recycling to glass recycling has given me a sensible chuckle.


No, it doesn't, it will only do so with the right model. We are failing.
 
6 days ago  

a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.

The only way to justify reduced plastic production is to reduce oil production. Globally we only consume 6% of the oil waste product to make plastic. Reducing that without reducing the oil generated just moved the waste into the environment quicker.

So the only thing that can be done with oil waste is to make plastics with it?

That doesn't sound quite right.

Plastics manufacturing is the easiest and cheapest thing to do with oil waste. I doubt it is the only thing.

CO², benzene rings, general pollution, take your pick.

And you think making plastics keeps those pollutants out of the environment?

I'm starting to think you know less on the subject than I do.

I've worked to promote statewide recycling programs for years. Watching you compare plastics recycling to glass recycling has given me a sensible chuckle.


I know it is different. It needs fixing.
 
6 days ago  

Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.

The only way to justify reduced plastic production is to reduce oil production. Globally we only consume 6% of the oil waste product to make plastic. Reducing that without reducing the oil generated just moved the waste into the environment quicker.

So the only thing that can be done with oil waste is to make plastics with it?

That doesn't sound quite right.

Plastics manufacturing is the easiest and cheapest thing to do with oil waste. I doubt it is the only thing.

CO², benzene rings, general pollution, take your pick.

And you think making plastics keeps those pollutants out of the environment?

I'm starting to think you know less on the subject than I do.

I've worked to promote statewide recycling programs for years. Watching you compare plastics recycling to glass recycling has given me a sensible chuckle.

I know it is different. It needs fixing.


And the only practical way to do that is to increase demand for used plastics.

Which brings us back, full circle.

You can have all the deposits on products you like. Until there is a market for the returns, they will sit in warehouses and storage yards.
 
6 days ago  

a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.

The only way to justify reduced plastic production is to reduce oil production. Globally we only consume 6% of the oil waste product to make plastic. Reducing that without reducing the oil generated just moved the waste into the environment quicker.

So the only thing that can be done with oil waste is to make plastics with it?

That doesn't sound quite right.

Plastics manufacturing is the easiest and cheapest thing to do with oil waste. I doubt it is the only thing.

CO², benzene rings, general pollution, take your pick.

And you think making plastics keeps those pollutants out of the environment?

I'm starting to think you know less on the subject than I do.

I've worked to promote statewide recycling programs for years. Watching you compare plastics recycling to glass recycling has given me a sensible chuckle.

I know it is different. It needs fixing.

And the only practical way to do that is to increase demand for used plastics.

Which brings us back, full circle.

You can have all the deposits on products you like. Until there is a market for the returns, they will sit in warehouses and storage yards.


Legislation is the real answer. Make it the responsibility of the producer to take it back and reprocess it. Sustainability.
 
6 days ago  

Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.

The only way to justify reduced plastic production is to reduce oil production. Globally we only consume 6% of the oil waste product to make plastic. Reducing that without reducing the oil generated just moved the waste into the environment quicker.

So the only thing that can be done with oil waste is to make plastics with it?

That doesn't sound quite right.

Plastics manufacturing is the easiest and cheapest thing to do with oil waste. I doubt it is the only thing.

CO², benzene rings, general pollution, take your pick.

And you think making plastics keeps those pollutants out of the environment?

I'm starting to think you know less on the subject than I do.

I've worked to promote statewide recycling programs for years. Watching you compare plastics recycling to glass recycling has given me a sensible chuckle.

I know it is different. It needs fixing.

And the only practical way to do that is to increase demand for used plastics.

Which brings us back, full circle.

You can have all the deposits on products you like. Until there is a market for the returns, they will sit in warehouses and storage yards.

Legislation is the real answer. Make it the responsibility of the producer to take it back and reprocess it. Sustainability.


OK. I'm not against that. The companies will put the costs on consumers, but I can live with that.

That still leave the problem of what to do with oil waste, most of which now goes to making new plastics. It doesn't help to have 100% recycling of plastics, if we are daily flooding the markets with thousands of tons of virgin plastics
 
6 days ago  
The closest thing I've seen the comes to solving this issue, is the Circulen idea from earlier this year.

Not just mechanically recycling the plastic, mulching it up into fine bits and melting it into another shape.

It is chemically reverting it back into ethylene or styrene. Turning the plastic back into a gas.

That means you can use the gas to make more plastic, or turn it into something else that the gas is used for.

Instead of seeing the plastic as just waste, seeing it as raw materials would do a lot to help people getting rid of it floating around in the ocean.

Because nobody is going to stop throwing their shiat into the ocean unless it makes them money, and this is the only things I've seen that gets anywhere close to that.
 
6 days ago  

a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: a_room_with_a_moose: Gpzjock: The biggest problem with plastic waste is that the majority of it is composed of 100% recyclable polyolefin plastic like Polystyrene, Polypropylene and Polyethylene but because those plastics are so cheap to produce from oil industry waste it isn't desirable to recycle.
The answer to the primary problem is to enforce sustainable product manufacturing. Make plastic bottles deposit paid and return them to the vendor to be reprocessed into more packaging. Like we did with glass for decades and places like Holland still do. The economics of it are simple, treat it as worthless and folk will treat it as disposable. Give it a nominal value and it will magically return to its originator for reuse.

Plastics are used in so much more than beverage bottles, and very little of that packaging and product ends up in recycling streams.

Even in places with bottle bills, recycling centers are overloaded with plastics because they can't find buyers.

The only way I can see to fix this is to cut production of new plastics so that the existing materials waiting recycling gain value.

The only way to justify reduced plastic production is to reduce oil production. Globally we only consume 6% of the oil waste product to make plastic. Reducing that without reducing the oil generated just moved the waste into the environment quicker.

So the only thing that can be done with oil waste is to make plastics with it?

That doesn't sound quite right.

Plastics manufacturing is the easiest and cheapest thing to do with oil waste. I doubt it is the only thing.

CO², benzene rings, general pollution, take your pick.

And you think making plastics keeps those pollutants out of the environment?

I'm starting to think you know less on the subject than I do.

I've worked to promote statewide recycling programs for years. Watching you compare plastics recycling to glass recycling has given me a sensible chuckle.

I know it is different. It needs fixing.

And the only practical way to do that is to increase demand for used plastics.

Which brings us back, full circle.

You can have all the deposits on products you like. Until there is a market for the returns, they will sit in warehouses and storage yards.

Legislation is the real answer. Make it the responsibility of the producer to take it back and reprocess it. Sustainability.

OK. I'm not against that. The companies will put the costs on consumers, but I can live with that.

That still leave the problem of what to do with oil waste, most of which now goes to making new plastics. It doesn't help to have 100% recycling of plastics, if we are daily flooding the markets with thousands of tons of virgin plastics


I agree and we should reduce oil consumption too. The BPF has a roadmap for future improvement but it will need a serious amount of change to achieve. The oil business will resist any interference too.
https://bpf.co.uk/roadmap
 
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