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(ABC 15)   The debt collections are coming from inside your home equity   (abc15.com) divider line
    More: Asinine, Debt, Bankruptcy Attorney Lamar Hawkins, Attached, Legal terms, debt collectors, homestead exemption, Jonathan Frakes, Credit  
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5028 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 09 Jun 2021 at 4:50 PM (5 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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5 days ago  
Wow

How about rich people who don't pay their fair share? I am pretty sure the IRS can already assess liens, they should do it much more often.
 
5 days ago  
Another reason to stay away from Arizona? Okay.
 
5 days ago  
So as our fetish with corporatism and late-stage capitalism deepens, we're going to start letting people steal our houses WHICH WE OWN out from under us?

This is sick levels of f*cked up.
 
5 days ago  
Apparently this could change an unsecured debt to one secured by your house. Throw away your credit card, and tell your bank why you did.
 
5 days ago  
Also, even if a debt is discharged in bankruptcy a lein generally isnt.
 
5 days ago  
He says people who have debt, or even a bankruptcy judgment, need to be aware of these changes since the law allows debts from the past to revitalize themselves and debt collectors a chance to claim any equity they may have.

Wow, get ready for zombie debt being bought for pennies on the dollar and being used to put you out on the street.
 
5 days ago  

emersonbiggins: He says people who have debt, or even a bankruptcy judgment, need to be aware of these changes since the law allows debts from the past to revitalize themselves and debt collectors a chance to claim any equity they may have.

Wow, get ready for zombie debt being bought for pennies on the dollar and being used to put you out on the street.


Makes perfect sense.

The wealthy have basically taken everything else that they could from us other than homes.  So now they have to mine homes to put more people into endless debt and remove from them any wealth of any kind.  They're pissed off that people actually put the time, effort and money into building equity in their homes instead of that money going into their pockets instead.
 
5 days ago  
Well, wait, how many people are carrying 200k in debt besides their house?

I agree this law is farked up, but I'm just saying if I sold my house, and a debt I'd dodged for years came up.... I mean, they got me, right? But I've also never had a debt that I didn't actually owe. Is that a thing?
 
5 days ago  
Holy shiat. The majority of Arizona homeowners from all parties will be shocked, angered and terrified by this. This is unthinkable (though obviously some evil farkers thought about it). People literally move to states for their homestead exemptions and protections.
 
5 days ago  

emersonbiggins: He says people who have debt, or even a bankruptcy judgment, need to be aware of these changes since the law allows debts from the past to revitalize themselves and debt collectors a chance to claim any equity they may have.

Wow, get ready for zombie debt being bought for pennies on the dollar and being used to put you out on the street.


How the fark is that legal? If the debt is charged off, paid, or settled, how can they revive it without proving you owe it?
 
5 days ago  
Makes sense to me. Your assets *should* be encumbered if your shirk your legal debt obligations. This doesn't mean they will foreclose on your home, it just means they have a legal right to collect prior to any deed transfer.
 
5 days ago  

Natalie Portmanteau: Well, wait, how many people are carrying 200k in debt besides their house?

I agree this law is farked up, but I'm just saying if I sold my house, and a debt I'd dodged for years came up.... I mean, they got me, right? But I've also never had a debt that I didn't actually owe. Is that a thing?


I'm pretty sure that this is for those people who either don't know that they still have this debt (in that it was probably paid off in the past for less than the actual value of the debt, or those who actually did pay it off and it somehow is still out there as 'zombie debt' because for whatever reason it was never removed from the creditors ledgers).
 
5 days ago  

Natalie Portmanteau: emersonbiggins: He says people who have debt, or even a bankruptcy judgment, need to be aware of these changes since the law allows debts from the past to revitalize themselves and debt collectors a chance to claim any equity they may have.

Wow, get ready for zombie debt being bought for pennies on the dollar and being used to put you out on the street.

How the fark is that legal? If the debt is charged off, paid, or settled, how can they revive it without proving you owe it?


Arizona is run by sadists who like to harm their citizens and tell them it's for their own good. We know this already.
 
5 days ago  
And a long, long time ago, I had debt collectors or scammers coming after me for bogus debts. I had to write FCRA challenge letters and cc the California Attorney General before they gave up.
 
5 days ago  
Yeah I'm sure that will have no negative consequences.
 
5 days ago  

Natalie Portmanteau: Well, wait, how many people are carrying 200k in debt besides their house?

I agree this law is farked up, but I'm just saying if I sold my house, and a debt I'd dodged for years came up.... I mean, they got me, right? But I've also never had a debt that I didn't actually owe. Is that a thing?


Medical debt is the biggest issue.
 
5 days ago  

Natalie Portmanteau: How the fark is that legal? If the debt is charged off, paid, or settled, how can they revive it without proving you owe it?


It isn't. At least here in Washington, people can buy blocks of debt for pennies on the dollar and try to collect on it, but they don't actually have any ability to garnish wages, or impact credit or anything like that.

All they can do is harass and threaten, legally.
 
5 days ago  

bluejeansonfire: So as our fetish with corporatism and late-stage capitalism deepens, we're going to start letting people steal our houses WHICH WE OWN out from under us?

This is sick levels of f*cked up.


To be fair, the home owner racked up CC debt they couldn't or didn't want to repay.  On the other hand those who lend money go deadbeats deserve to lose their investment.
We should not have two bankruptcy laws, one for the bottom 99%, and solid protections for the top 1%.
GQP voters choose to suffer, who knew elections matter?
/Release the leopards!!!
 
5 days ago  
This might be enjoyable for me. I have a number of Trumpist family in AZ who are perpetually in debt trying to keep up with the Jones'. Several are strung out on home equity loans. None are in the income bracket Republicans love but they keep smiling and going to the polls for the GOP because MS-13 is dangerous and their tax dollars might be used to help people they don't like. They sort of remind me of the 1.7m Kentuckian's on Medicaid biatching about Socialism thinking it only applies to people on welfare.
 
5 days ago  

Wanderlusting: Makes sense to me. Your assets *should* be encumbered if your shirk your legal debt obligations. This doesn't mean they will foreclose on your home, it just means they have a legal right to collect prior to any deed transfer.


It means they can foreclose on your home, even if the debt was medical debt or fraudulent or discharged in bankruptcy.
 
5 days ago  
Governor Doug Ducey is full of bad ideas so I'm not surprised he signed off on this.
/Go eat a dick, Ducey.
 
5 days ago  

Magnanimous_J: Natalie Portmanteau: How the fark is that legal? If the debt is charged off, paid, or settled, how can they revive it without proving you owe it?

It isn't. At least here in Washington, people can buy blocks of debt for pennies on the dollar and try to collect on it, but they don't actually have any ability to garnish wages, or impact credit or anything like that.

All they can do is harass and threaten, legally.


Well, until now.

This is really spooky. I wonder if this has anything to do with sovereign citizens trying to "paper terrorism" judges by garnishing their houses with bogus leins.
 
5 days ago  

Wanderlusting: Makes sense to me. Your assets *should* be encumbered if your shirk your legal debt obligations. This doesn't mean they will foreclose on your home, it just means they have a legal right to collect prior to any deed transfer.


Put yourself in their shoes.  Let's say you buy something and don't pay for it.  That probably means you don't want them collecting on it either, certainly not from your home equity or anything else of value.
 
5 days ago  

Natalie Portmanteau: Well, wait, how many people are carrying 200k in debt besides their house?

I agree this law is farked up, but I'm just saying if I sold my house, and a debt I'd dodged for years came up.... I mean, they got me, right? But I've also never had a debt that I didn't actually owe. Is that a thing?


One wonders if legal and late fees would be heaped onto the original debt.  Student loans balloon to more than double.  Payday loans carry 500% interest.
 
5 days ago  

mofa: And a long, long time ago, I had debt collectors or scammers coming after me for bogus debts. I had to write FCRA challenge letters and cc the California Attorney General before they gave up.


I ask for them to mail me via registered mail the chain of custody proving they own the debt.  Usually shuts them up fast.

/ex wife ran up a bunch of cards
//I literally had 4 different agencies all claiming they owned the debt for one card, by card number.
///that was a very fun conference call I got them all into and I wish I could see the looks on their face when I told them I had a divorce order that stated the ex wife was responsible for that card and the judge specifically told me in the order to contact him via his clerk if i got debt harassed
 
5 days ago  
If I read the article correctly, the new law simply makes recorded judgments a lien on real property. That's the law in most of the country. Debt collectors aren't taking your equity just on their say-so.
 
5 days ago  
PROTIP:  If you're trying to build equity in your property, first pay off your damn loans, and then pay off your credit card every time the bill comes due.  Unless you're Donald Trump, you can't be rich and in debt at the same time.
 
5 days ago  
I know this is Fark, but let's have some sanity.

1). The law allows COURT JUDGMENTS to attach as liens.  The creditor needs to have already sued you and won in court.

2).  The creditor is not evicting you - you still have that homestead protection.  When you sell your home and the mortgage is paid, the excess can be tapped by judgment creditors.

This is not the end of the world.
 
5 days ago  
When people are desperate and pissed off enough, because apparently they still werent in 2008-2009, people are gonna get shot in the face over this and they'll 100% deserve it.
 
5 days ago  
Law passed by a Republican legislature and signed by a Republican governor.  The GOP, friend of the working man.
 
5 days ago  

meanmutton: It means they can foreclose on your home, even if the debt was medical debt or fraudulent or discharged in bankruptcy.


No, it does not. A lien is an encumbrance; it does not automatically grant the right to foreclose. If you hire a plumber to fix your bathroom pipes and you don't pay him, he can file a lien against the home. It just means that in order to SELL your house (transfer the deed), you need to satisfy the debt. A plumber can't foreclose on your home because you didn't pay him.
 
5 days ago  

Northern: bluejeansonfire: So as our fetish with corporatism and late-stage capitalism deepens, we're going to start letting people steal our houses WHICH WE OWN out from under us?

This is sick levels of f*cked up.

To be fair, the home owner racked up CC debt they couldn't or didn't want to repay.  On the other hand those who lend money go deadbeats deserve to lose their investment.
We should not have two bankruptcy laws, one for the bottom 99%, and solid protections for the top 1%.
GQP voters choose to suffer, who knew elections matter?
/Release the leopards!!!


With all due respect, this presumes debt collectors have accurate records.
 
5 days ago  
Every Arizonan should call their credit card banks and demand their interest rates be dropped to reflect that the line of credit is now secured by the value of their home. See how long it takes to get a letter firmly saying that it is NOT secured by your home equity. They can't have it both ways.
 
5 days ago  
Mom? Who's that guy putting up a FOR SALE sign in front of our house?
 
5 days ago  
The sad reality is that 90% of this will be medical debt.
 
5 days ago  
And Red states keep slitting their throats by voting Republican, lol.

Zero Farks given.
 
5 days ago  

meanmutton: Wanderlusting: Makes sense to me. Your assets *should* be encumbered if your shirk your legal debt obligations. This doesn't mean they will foreclose on your home, it just means they have a legal right to collect prior to any deed transfer.

It means they can foreclose on your home, even if the debt was medical debt or fraudulent or discharged in bankruptcy.


No, they cannot foreclose on a debt discharged in bankruptcy.

Try that and you're violating federal law.
 
5 days ago  
Well that's what ya get when you vote for republicans.
 
5 days ago  

JZDave: If I read the article correctly, the new law simply makes recorded judgments a lien on real property. That's the law in most of the country. Debt collectors aren't taking your equity just on their say-so.


This. From what I'm reading the creditor has to get a judgement against you in court, and if you haven't paid that judgement when you sell your house, and only then, they can take it from your equity upon finalization of the sale.

Of course there's a simply way to get around this. PAY YOUR farkING DEBTS.
 
5 days ago  

Northern: bluejeansonfire: So as our fetish with corporatism and late-stage capitalism deepens, we're going to start letting people steal our houses WHICH WE OWN out from under us?

This is sick levels of f*cked up.

To be fair, the home owner racked up CC debt they couldn't or didn't want to repay.  On the other hand those who lend money go deadbeats deserve to lose their investment.
We should not have two bankruptcy laws, one for the bottom 99%, and solid protections for the top 1%.
GQP voters choose to suffer, who knew elections matter?
/Release the leopards!!!


Businesses declare bankruptcy and keep their property. Why can't people?
 
5 days ago  

Nadie_AZ: Northern: bluejeansonfire: So as our fetish with corporatism and late-stage capitalism deepens, we're going to start letting people steal our houses WHICH WE OWN out from under us?

This is sick levels of f*cked up.

To be fair, the home owner racked up CC debt they couldn't or didn't want to repay.  On the other hand those who lend money go deadbeats deserve to lose their investment.
We should not have two bankruptcy laws, one for the bottom 99%, and solid protections for the top 1%.
GQP voters choose to suffer, who knew elections matter?
/Release the leopards!!!

Businesses declare bankruptcy and keep their property. Why can't people?


They often can. Consult your local bankruptcy attorney
 
5 days ago  
Pay your bills, y'all.
 
5 days ago  
Ownership of real property has been the only significant way for the middle class to accumulate any form of wealth since real household income has risen just 20% in the last 50 years while the costs of living (including homes and cars have DOUBLED and the cost of a college education (in constant dollars, mind you) has gone up by a factor of 10.

So Obviously, we HAVE to put a stop to that
 
5 days ago  

ReapTheChaos: JZDave: If I read the article correctly, the new law simply makes recorded judgments a lien on real property. That's the law in most of the country. Debt collectors aren't taking your equity just on their say-so.

This. From what I'm reading the creditor has to get a judgement against you in court, and if you haven't paid that judgement when you sell your house, and only then, they can take it from your equity upon finalization of the sale.

Of course there's a simply way to get around this. PAY YOUR farkING DEBTS.


It's not necessarily your farking debts. More correctly, it would be, "Know about judgments and liens that may not have been clearly communicated to you regarding debts that may or may not actually be yours."

People have literally lost their homes over tax liens of $200 that were sold to debt collectors who immediately started charging massive penalty fees and evicted them.
 
5 days ago  

Wanderlusting: Makes sense to me. Your assets *should* be encumbered if your shirk your legal debt obligations. This doesn't mean they will foreclose on your home, it just means they have a legal right to collect prior to any deed transfer.


You're not paying attention.

This is an OUTRAGE!!
 
5 days ago  

Magorn: Ownership of real property has been the only significant way for the middle class to accumulate any form of wealth since real household income has risen just 20% in the last 50 years while the costs of living (including homes and cars have DOUBLED and the cost of a college education (in constant dollars, mind you) has gone up by a factor of 10.

So Obviously, we HAVE to put a stop to that


No. Because if your basis of building wealth is abandoning lawfully owed debt, that's just rationalizing theft.

I could be $1000 richer tomorrow if I just "borrow" $1000 from my friend and never pay him back, but that's just another name for theft.
 
5 days ago  

emersonbiggins: He says people who have debt, or even a bankruptcy judgment, need to be aware of these changes since the law allows debts from the past to revitalize themselves and debt collectors a chance to claim any equity they may have.

Wow, get ready for zombie debt being bought for pennies on the dollar and being used to put you out on the street.


1. Buy zombie debt
2. File lien against home
3. Foreclose on home
4. Profit

Basically, it's buying homes for pennies on the dollar.
 
5 days ago  

mofa: ReapTheChaos: JZDave: If I read the article correctly, the new law simply makes recorded judgments a lien on real property. That's the law in most of the country. Debt collectors aren't taking your equity just on their say-so.

This. From what I'm reading the creditor has to get a judgement against you in court, and if you haven't paid that judgement when you sell your house, and only then, they can take it from your equity upon finalization of the sale.

Of course there's a simply way to get around this. PAY YOUR farkING DEBTS.

It's not necessarily your farking debts. More correctly, it would be, "Know about judgments and liens that may not have been clearly communicated to you regarding debts that may or may not actually be yours."

People have literally lost their homes over tax liens of $200 that were sold to debt collectors who immediately started charging massive penalty fees and evicted them.


With all due respect, failure to pay your property taxes is a completely different issue. And the language in your hyperlink is not really an accurate description of what happens when you fail to pay your property tax.
 
5 days ago  

mofa: ReapTheChaos: JZDave: If I read the article correctly, the new law simply makes recorded judgments a lien on real property. That's the law in most of the country. Debt collectors aren't taking your equity just on their say-so.

This. From what I'm reading the creditor has to get a judgement against you in court, and if you haven't paid that judgement when you sell your house, and only then, they can take it from your equity upon finalization of the sale.

Of course there's a simply way to get around this. PAY YOUR farkING DEBTS.

It's not necessarily your farking debts. More correctly, it would be, "Know about judgments and liens that may not have been clearly communicated to you regarding debts that may or may not actually be yours."

People have literally lost their homes over tax liens of $200 that were sold to debt collectors who immediately started charging massive penalty fees and evicted them.


Uh, not paying your taxes is ... you know ... theft from the schools, the police, the fire department, the garbage collectors. I thought you all wanted strong government services. If anyone can just ignore their taxes, your whole pyramid scheme of socialism collapses in on itself. So, OF COURSE, they are going to foreclose on your home if you don't pay your taxes. You're stealing from the socialists, which we all know is bad.
 
5 days ago  

Northern: bluejeansonfire: So as our fetish with corporatism and late-stage capitalism deepens, we're going to start letting people steal our houses WHICH WE OWN out from under us?

This is sick levels of f*cked up.

To be fair, the home owner racked up CC debt they couldn't or didn't want to repay.  On the other hand those who lend money go deadbeats deserve to lose their investment.
We should not have two bankruptcy laws, one for the bottom 99%, and solid protections for the top 1%.
GQP voters choose to suffer, who knew elections matter?
/Release the leopards!!!


At the time of the last bankruptcy "reform" bill in 2005 a study showed that more than 70% of the time a Credit card company has already made a profit on the accounts of credit card holders whose debts were discharged in bankruptcy , not to mention the tax write off they got for nominal losses that far exceed their actual out of pocket loss from the discharged debt thanks to penalties and interest and "fees" attached to delinquent accounts
 
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