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(Salon)   Trump isn't delusional. It's much worse than that   (salon.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Republican Party, Delusion, Mitch McConnell, Psychopathy, Antisocial personality disorder, Pied Piper of Hamelin, Donald Trump, Psychosis  
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5008 clicks; posted to Politics » on 09 Jun 2021 at 11:35 AM (7 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-06-09 9:27:45 AM  
But Trump is not detached from reality at all. He knows exactly what he is doing. He knows the difference between truth and a lie

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-06-09 9:42:32 AM  
Penn Jillette once said it perfectly:  "However bad you think he is, he's worse."
 
2021-06-09 10:11:54 AM  
"A growing and prevailing view is that Donald Trump has become delusional. His fixed and intractable obsession with his Big Lie is seen as proof of his psychosis.

But Trump is not detached from reality at all. He knows exactly what he is doing. He knows the difference between truth and a lie - he just doesn't care about that, if a lie gets him what he wants. He is devious, conniving and hell-bent on satisfying his needs, wants and desires at any cost."


1. Citation needed.

2. There is very little functional difference between being "unable" to tell the difference between truth and a lie and being consistently 100% unwilling to tell the difference between truth and a lie that you like.

The vibe I've always gotten from Trump is the same thing I hear people describe when dealing with malignant narcissists: They're just uninterested in the difference between truth and lies because to them the purpose of communication is not to convey information but to get what they want and make them feel good about themselves.

Brains and the way that they break are very complicated, and splitting hairs over whether or not the former guy "knows" he lost is not a great use of your time. (Unless you happen to be on a grand jury deciding to issue a warrant for Trump's arrest, in which case hurry the fark up.)
 
2021-06-09 10:27:54 AM  
Nice website. It both scolded me for blocking ads and blew up some pop ups. I'm scanning my PC for viruses.
 
2021-06-09 11:36:31 AM  
He can be delusional and devious at the same time. Batshiat crazy is still dangerous either way.
 
2021-06-09 11:37:17 AM  
Pretty bold assumption. I'd wager it's a combination of the two.
 
2021-06-09 11:37:45 AM  
How can we be certain that Trump isn't actually Osama bin Laden in a fat suit? He seems to be doing a better job of destroying the US than ISIS ever did.
 
2021-06-09 11:39:45 AM  
When he won in 2016 he immediately predicted that if he lost in 2020, it must be rigged.

If that's delusion, it was a well-planned delusion.
 
2021-06-09 11:39:56 AM  
He either needs a 5150 and transport to a long-term mental health facility or he needs to go to prison.  I don't care which one.
 
2021-06-09 11:40:07 AM  
Oh FFS is he not some 17D Chess master. He think he won because every time he has ever lost he just yells rigged. Stop keeping him relevant.
 
2021-06-09 11:40:26 AM  
Harboring delusions and being a treasonous piece of shiat aren't mutually exclusive.

That said, it doesn't matter which way he leans on those two traits. He remains the biggest threat to American democracy at the moment, regardless of whether he's batshiat crazy, devious, or both.
 
2021-06-09 11:40:34 AM  
Haven't we learned by now that Trump is both delusional and evil?
 
2021-06-09 11:40:57 AM  

blatz514: But Trump is not detached from reality at all. He knows exactly what he is doing. He knows the difference between truth and a lie

[Fark user image image 480x270]


He's just his own biggest mark.
 
2021-06-09 11:41:04 AM  
They just keep reporting on this farkstick.

They just keep giving him free press.

They just keep farking doing it.
 
2021-06-09 11:41:27 AM  

Mugato: Nice website. It both scolded me for blocking ads and blew up some pop ups. I'm scanning my PC for viruses.


You know how I know you don't use script blocking?
 
2021-06-09 11:41:28 AM  

fragMasterFlash: bin Laden


bin Laden was actually tall, did not wear lifts in his shoes to 'look' tall.
 
2021-06-09 11:41:48 AM  

koder: Penn Jillette once said it perfectly:  "However bad you think he is, he's worse."


Fran Lebowitz was a little more descriptive:

"This idea that people are thinking about someone who has never had a single thought in his life is also very irritating."
 
2021-06-09 11:42:04 AM  
Everyone's trying to get inside his head - does he actually believe the crazy bullshiat he keeps spreading. That's a wee bit beside the point; the impact, not the source, of his delusions is what we should focus on. We act like if we can prove that he's mad as a hatter, that his base of support will wander off like the climax of 'The Drumhead." But his base doesn't care either. They're thrilled to embrace lies they don't believe in, if it means feeling empowered for a while.

There will be no moment where the GOP insists that Trump was a mistake. The fabric of democracy is less important to them than the fact that he pissed off the libs. That's what needs to be worked on, not trying to decide whether their leader is crazy or evil or both.
 
2021-06-09 11:43:45 AM  

whidbey: They just keep reporting on this farkstick.

They just keep giving him free press.

They just keep farking doing it.


They'll keep doing so as long as Republicans treat him as their leader. Ignoring him is way more dangerous than paying attention to him.
 
2021-06-09 11:43:46 AM  
i.imgflip.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-09 11:43:48 AM  
He's a complete solipsist. The world revolves around him. And Trump believes he will end at death so any check on his interests -- morality, ethics, etc -- are useless to him. He is Republicanism in human form.
 
2021-06-09 11:44:29 AM  

Martian_Astronomer: 2. There is very little functional difference between being "unable" to tell the difference between truth and a lie and being consistently 100% unwilling to tell the difference between truth and a lie that you like.

The vibe I've always gotten from Trump is the same thing I hear people describe when dealing with malignant narcissists: They're just uninterested in the difference between truth and lies because to them the purpose of communication is not to convey information but to get what they want and make them feel good about themselves.


100% this. It's not whether Donnie believes he won in the same way you or I believe the sky is blue. I'm not sure he's capable of that sort of belief in that way. He's saying what he wants to be true & that everyone he interacts with must behave in a way that makes it true.

That makes him dangerous in a similar way to what the author claims, but the strategies for combating an adversary who accepts the truth but deceives others is different from how you deal with someone who deceives others AND himself (e.g. the story that Donnie didn't go after Biden because Donnie thought Biden would be swapped out).
 
2021-06-09 11:45:16 AM  

whidbey: They just keep reporting on this farkstick.

They just keep giving him free press.

They just keep farking doing it.


They can't quit him. They add to his lore. If they would memory hole him his influence would continue to fall.
 
2021-06-09 11:45:54 AM  

Tyrone Slothrop: whidbey: They just keep reporting on this farkstick.

They just keep giving him free press.

They just keep farking doing it.

They'll keep doing so as long as Republicans treat him as their leader. Ignoring him is way more dangerous than paying attention to him.


Republicans treat him as their leader because he is still relevant. It's chicken and egg.
 
2021-06-09 11:46:38 AM  

peasandcarrots: Everyone's trying to get inside his head - does he actually believe the crazy bullshiat he keeps spreading. That's a wee bit beside the point; the impact, not the source, of his delusions is what we should focus on. We act like if we can prove that he's mad as a hatter, that his base of support will wander off like the climax of 'The Drumhead." But his base doesn't care either. They're thrilled to embrace lies they don't believe in, if it means feeling empowered for a while.

There will be no moment where the GOP insists that Trump was a mistake. The fabric of democracy is less important to them than the fact that he pissed off the libs. That's what needs to be worked on, not trying to decide whether their leader is crazy or evil or both.


"Everyone's trying to get inside his head"

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-06-09 11:46:48 AM  

peasandcarrots: Everyone's trying to get inside his head - does he actually believe the crazy bullshiat he keeps spreading. That's a wee bit beside the point; the impact, not the source, of his delusions is what we should focus on. We act like if we can prove that he's mad as a hatter, that his base of support will wander off like the climax of 'The Drumhead." But his base doesn't care either. They're thrilled to embrace lies they don't believe in, if it means feeling empowered for a while.

There will be no moment where the GOP insists that Trump was a mistake. The fabric of democracy is less important to them than the fact that he pissed off the libs. That's what needs to be worked on, not trying to decide whether their leader is crazy or evil or both.


The best look inside Trump's head I've seen is in the Charlie Kaufman novel "Antkind". In which Trump falls in love with the Disney "Hall of Presidents" animatronick model of himself.
 
2021-06-09 11:47:07 AM  

whidbey: They just keep reporting on this farkstick.

They just keep giving him free press.

They just keep farking doing it.


And we keep reading the articles and driving ad revenues.
And we keep submitting links and commenting on them, driving more ad revenues.
Everyone is getting rich from our collective obsession. The cottage industry built on TDS will take a long time to die off - and it will only die off if we let it.

Thing is, Trump is actually pulling the strings for a lot of things in the Republican party today, so we can't ignore him entirely. We just need to be judicious consumers of information and not breathlessly refresh Twitter looking for shiat to be outraged about. Identify the noise and ignore it.
 
2021-06-09 11:47:43 AM  
Trump isn't delusional.

He has a very strong understanding of his political base, what motivates them and the potential power they wield at the polls.

He is leveraging that into control over the GOP nationwide, and through that is continuing an intentional radicalization of the right wing and is setting up a legislative environment that will hand him the election in 2024 regardless of how the newly purple states like AZ and GA vote.
 
2021-06-09 11:48:47 AM  

Target Builder: Trump isn't delusional.

He has a very strong understanding of his political base, what motivates them and the potential power they wield at the polls.

He is leveraging that into control over the GOP nationwide, and through that is continuing an intentional radicalization of the right wing and is setting up a legislative environment that will hand him the election in 2024 regardless of how the newly purple states like AZ and GA vote.


Except his voters tend to not show up if he is not in the ballot.
 
2021-06-09 11:48:51 AM  
The trick is to find any negative traits that don't apply


static.123teachme.comView Full Size
static.123teachme.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-09 11:49:10 AM  
Guy broke the cardinal rule of drug dealing "never get high on your own supply".
 
2021-06-09 11:49:31 AM  

not enough beer: whidbey: They just keep reporting on this farkstick.

They just keep giving him free press.

They just keep farking doing it.

They can't quit him. They add to his lore. If they would memory hole him his influence would continue to fall.


It's a god damn self-fulfilling prophecy in the making.
 
2021-06-09 11:49:38 AM  
I'm always torn between wanting him to just stroke out and wanting him to be alive long enough to see his businesses taken from him and his children go to jail. Granted, him being alive and going to jail along with his children would be the best case. Or, I also like the idea of him stroking out and being in a waking coma for years where he can no longer move or talk but is aware of everything happening around him.

So many good options.

/worst option is where he continues to evade all accountability
//wheels of justice are slooooooooooow
 
2021-06-09 11:50:07 AM  

peasandcarrots: Everyone's trying to get inside his head - does he actually believe the crazy bullshiat he keeps spreading. That's a wee bit beside the point; the impact, not the source, of his delusions is what we should focus on. We act like if we can prove that he's mad as a hatter, that his base of support will wander off like the climax of 'The Drumhead." But his base doesn't care either. They're thrilled to embrace lies they don't believe in, if it means feeling empowered for a while.

There will be no moment where the GOP insists that Trump was a mistake. The fabric of democracy is less important to them than the fact that he pissed off the libs. That's what needs to be worked on, not trying to decide whether their leader is crazy or evil or both.


No so much he pissed off the libs is the entire file of kompromat he has on them.
I think Cheney, Mcconnel, and Ryan are the only ones he really has nothing concrete on and Mcconnel is a much slyer old fox than Trump can ever hope to be.
 
2021-06-09 11:51:17 AM  
He creates the lie.
Others repeat the lie.
He hears the lie.
He believes the lie.
 
2021-06-09 11:51:34 AM  
It is a mistake to consider Trump psychotic. That would be to assume that psychiatric medication might alleviate his delusional thinking. But medication cannot fix a psychopath with malignant narcissism.

This.

About the only way to manage such a person is put him under lock and key and keep him there, be it in a prison or an institute for the criminally insane. Using a strict application of rewards and punishments, it is often possible to train him to be a well-behaved inmate. Genuine rehabilitation that would allow him to live outside an institution without being a threat to others is not a realistic goal.

How likely this is to happen mostly depends on the psychopath's ability to hire competent defense lawyers (or manipulating his marks into paying for them) and his colour (let's be honest), not on how sick he is.

No matter how much Farkers would like that, Trump's not going to jail, and it would be a political nightmare to try to send him there. So much the worse for us all.
 
2021-06-09 11:52:29 AM  
There have been a number of studies that have started cropping up regarding COVID-19's effects on individuals with or at risk of cognitive impairments like Alzheimer's and dementia, particularly where the individual has a severe case of COVID-19.  While Trump was already off the rails at the time he got COVID-19, there seems to be a clear line between "pushing the delusion" and "actively engaging in and believing the delusion" pre-COVID and post-COVID.  He clearly had sundowning moments and other issues prior to COVID-19, but it seems like afterwards, he started to lose his comprehension of reality.  The excuse was there for the 25th Amendment to say that COVID-19 had effectively incapacitated him, but no one had the balls to do it.

Now, that's not to say that everyone in Trump's orbit isn't manipulating and pushing this shiat.
 
2021-06-09 11:53:45 AM  
I really wish people would quit thinking that he or anyone around him is some supervillain, and not just lucky and farking stupid as hell.

There are plenty of people in life who are so stupid they fall upwards...look around your work today, I am sure you can find at LEAST one.
 
2021-06-09 11:54:11 AM  
He usually starts his rants about the election by saying he got the most votes that any sitting president has ever gotten, which is both correct and not actually relevant. That's one point in "he knows what he's doing" column.
 
2021-06-09 11:54:39 AM  

Mugato: Nice website. It both scolded me for blocking ads and blew up some pop ups. I'm scanning my PC for viruses.


That's what you get for browsing sketchy sites like newspapers instead of porn sites which have more reputable advertisements.
 
2021-06-09 11:54:44 AM  

houstondragon: He can be delusional and devious at the same time. Batshiat crazy is still dangerous either way.


He's a psychopath because he wants to be a dictator, much like the people he admires.  Putin, L'il Rocket Man, Bibi.

He's psychotic because he think's he can actually pull this off.
 
2021-06-09 11:54:52 AM  
3.bp.blogspot.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-09 11:57:14 AM  

OhioUGrad: I really wish people would quit thinking that he or anyone around him is some supervillain, and not just lucky and farking stupid as hell.

There are plenty of people in life who are so stupid they fall upwards...look around your work today, I am sure you can find at LEAST one.


He's no supervillain.  But his actions and his brain dead supporters will give rise to an actual supervillain soon enough.
 
2021-06-09 11:58:38 AM  
Trump is acting as you would expect for a con artist who's got the walls closing in around him and no exit strategy from his greatest scam.

It burns him so deeply the little people could hold him to account. He was so close to ruining America and he still has a solid chance every day he's not in a jail cell for one of his many crimes, but let's say sedition and treason.

Never forget he wasn't expecting to be President. It was all a grift and he was planning to use it to launch a network. When he accidentally won, it threw him into chaos, upgrading his evil plans to autocrat.
 
2021-06-09 11:58:50 AM  
We get this delusional garbage in the sports world from the culty Patriot worshippers and haters alike around here.  Belichick threw that Super Bowl on PURPOSE!

Please, Salon, tell us how Trump sh*ts himself in front of world leaders on purpose.  He's like Rigs in Lethal Weapon.  He has a plan but his colon could go off at any time!
 
2021-06-09 11:59:20 AM  
The one story I've heard that makes me doubt that he isn't delusional about pretty much everything (I know, hard to believe it is just one, but this always kind of stood out to me) is that when the Access Hollywood pussy grabbing recording came out he supposedly said to someone in a private conversation that he did not think the recording sounded like him.

Here is an article about it: https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/2​8/us/​politics/trump-access-hollywood-tape.h​tml

FTFA: Despite his public acknowledgment of the recording's authenticity in the final days of the presidential campaign - and his hasty videotaped apology under pressure from his advisers - Mr. Trump as president-elect began raising the prospect with allies that it may not have been him on the tape after all.

Most of Mr. Trump's aides ignored his changing story. But in January, shortly before his inauguration, Mr. Trump told a Republican senator that he wanted to investigate the recording that had him boasting about grabbing women's genitals.

"We don't think that was my voice," Mr. Trump told the senator, according to a person familiar with the conversation. Since then, Mr. Trump has continued to suggest that the tape that nearly upended his campaign was not actually him, according to three people close to the president.

/That is just weird shiat
 
2021-06-09 12:00:16 PM  

blatz514: But Trump is not detached from reality at all. He knows exactly what he is doing. He knows the difference between truth and a lie

[Fark user image 480x270] [View Full Size image _x_]


Has Trump made any indication that he is aware of any fact-based universe he exists in?

Every indication I've seen is that Trump believes his own delusions and isn't remotely interested in anything else.  He insists that everything he says is the absolute TRVTH.  Of course *he* reserves the right to completely ignore even that TRVTH and replace it with a new TRVTH, which he does all the time.  Because caring about "facts" (even if they are proclaimed by the allmighty TRUMP) isn't something he cares about.

As far as Trump is concerned, facts obey trump.  Not the other way around.  And to be honest, if actually gave a flying fark about facts it would probably ruin his cult of personality (he'd be caving to the "elites").  Which is really all he has going for him.
 
2021-06-09 12:02:08 PM  
Maybe the Secret Service should be protecting us from Trump.  It's their job with any other criminal.
 
2021-06-09 12:02:10 PM  

Martian_Astronomer: The vibe I've always gotten from Trump is the same thing I hear people describe when dealing with malignant narcissists: They're just uninterested in the difference between truth and lies because to them the purpose of communication is not to convey information but to get what they want and make them feel good about themselves.


Bingo. It is all about them to an almost inconceivable degree. As they get older, they get better at distorting reality and such distortions become even more necessary as they decline. The further they move into fantasy, the more they need to. It is indistinguishable from delusion.
 
2021-06-09 12:05:11 PM  
Trump's Big Lie about the election and fantasies of "reinstatement" aren't delusional. They're devious strategies

No, they're really stupid strategies that can only work if the country descends into mob rule. The businesses that really run things in this country know that chaos is a sh*tty environment for long-term planning and profits. If self-preservation is an instinct they possess, they won't support politicians who embrace Trump and his dipshiattery.
 
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