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(CBR)   Concern mounts over racist themes in "Eternals," just because Jack Kirby was into ancient astronaut theories and eugenics. Wait until the sequel, "Deviants." This is my shocked face drawn Kirby style   (cbr.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Eternals, Celestial, upcomingEternalsmovie, Ikaris, Thor, Deviant, ancient alien interventions, pervasive racist theory  
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777 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 08 Jun 2021 at 3:50 PM (13 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-06-08 12:52:14 PM  
I think they can walk that line, very well. But I really do want to see this one.
 
2021-06-08 12:59:01 PM  
Actually, it's more like Scientology. Even down to the Volcano and evil ones that possess humans.
 
2021-06-08 1:04:20 PM  
Kirby was "into eugenics"? Show your work.
 
2021-06-08 1:40:16 PM  

EdwardTellerhands: Kirby was "into eugenics"? Show your work.


Kirby was into punching Nazis. Full Stop.

/Wot a revoltin' development this is.
 
2021-06-08 2:02:00 PM  
Yeah.  When Sweet Dreams came out in the mid-80s everyone was into them until they split until Grunge/Alternative hit.
 
2021-06-08 2:02:48 PM  
Yeah, now there's the "Tall Whites" and we already had 'The Grays', but where are the black aliens?

The troubling Eugenics craze of the 20's and 30's found its way into the channeled Urantia Book of that period, through the influence of the eugenicist Dr. Sadler. There's still some good stuff in there though, despite some clunky moments.

i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-08 4:01:38 PM  
(it's not a documentary)
 
2021-06-08 4:01:50 PM  
Jack Kirby, who looked at his readership and saw that there was a large group of black kids who like his work and created Black Panther so that they would be able to see themselves in the books they bought, that Jack Kirby?
 
2021-06-08 4:09:03 PM  
Keep in mind that they were kind of dicks to mankind as well:

Fark user imageView Full Size

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2021-06-08 4:13:05 PM  
Oh, JFC, now the 'Ancient Aliens' theory is "racist"?

They aren't saying that these cultures couldn't build their great works because they were POC, they're saying that NOBODY could build that shiat back then. FFS, not everything that is related to POC is racist. I'm sure aliens didn't come to Earth and help ancient civilizations build shiat, but saying that they did isn't farking racist.
 
2021-06-08 4:25:01 PM  

Mikey1969: Oh, JFC, now the 'Ancient Aliens' theory is "racist"?

They aren't saying that these cultures couldn't build their great works because they were POC, they're saying that NOBODY could build that shiat back then. FFS, not everything that is related to POC is racist. I'm sure aliens didn't come to Earth and help ancient civilizations build shiat, but saying that they did isn't farking racist.


on top of that, i'm pretty sure a big part of the film is the fact that the eternals have been neglectful as fark. not to mention hypocrites.

"We've watched them, guided them, but never interfered"
 
2021-06-08 4:26:49 PM  
oh yeah, and the eternals were created by the celestials alongside humans and what, ikarus, thena, sprite and druig are the only white ones? i think?
 
2021-06-08 4:28:29 PM  
Also "Concerns mount"?

This is literally one persons' opinion. Subby is trying to manufacture controversy.
 
2021-06-08 4:30:28 PM  

Mikey1969: Oh, JFC, now the 'Ancient Aliens' theory is "racist"?


"Ancient Aliens" Is the Most Offensive Show on Television - Devin Field
Youtube 2a65Q0X8R6A
 
2021-06-08 4:33:16 PM  
Jack Kirby was a curious motherfarker who eagerly read about any kooky pseudo-mythological shiat that would make a cool, dynamic splash page.

For farks sakes.
 
2021-06-08 4:37:52 PM  

Mikey1969: Oh, JFC, now the 'Ancient Aliens' theory is "racist"?

They aren't saying that these cultures couldn't build their great works because they were POC, they're saying that NOBODY could build that shiat back then. FFS, not everything that is related to POC is racist. I'm sure aliens didn't come to Earth and help ancient civilizations build shiat, but saying that they did isn't farking racist.


To be fair, a lot of 19th century archeology was racist AF.

Europeans would stumble upon ancient Mayan ruins and then claim that their vague pyramid shapes meant they must have been built by the ancient Egyptians, because there was no possible way these primitive screwheads could build something that impressive.
 
2021-06-08 4:46:30 PM  
I feel like the "Ancient beings guiding humanity" trop is much broader than just that particular application of it, and that likening two things because they use that trope is possibly not apt. There are non-racist applications of the trope, like in John Carter with the Therns (which is problematic for entirely distinct reasons, but they aren't because that trope is applied).
 
2021-06-08 4:58:21 PM  
I'll probably still see this, but only because Marvel. It'll probably still be good and successful but feel like there's a reason Eternals hasn't really been able to maintain a book for long periods (far too lazy to check but total number of issues across decades for them is probably around 30 and a character like Moon Knight has over 200). Could be wrong since movie going audience isn't the same as a comic reading audience.
 
2021-06-08 5:06:22 PM  

Mikey1969: They aren't saying that these cultures couldn't build their great works because they were POC, they're saying that NOBODY could build that shiat back then


That's not really how it works, though. Like, nobody really tries to claim that the Cerne Abbas Giant is the result of aliens, but strangely, the Nazca Lines must be. While there are ancient aliens stories for stuff like Stonehenge, they're not nearly as dominant as, say, the Egyptian Pyramids. No one questions the grand architecture of the Roman Empire, but the Mayans had to be helped by aliens.

It's also rooted in a kind of modernist bias: that modern the human is wiser, more intelligent, and more capable than our forbears, and that's just not true. Oh, we've got a much broader base of knowledge and built infrastructure to draw off of, sure, but we're using the same brain to think with. Ancient humans were just as clever as we are, possibly more clever because of the limitations they were working under.

There's also a big difference between recognizing that something has its roots in biased interpretations of history, and being racist in the David Duke sense. Racism is less about individual actions and more about the social context in which actions take place.
 
2021-06-08 5:31:24 PM  
Anything the helps sink the trash that is eternals is ok by me.
 
2021-06-08 5:36:09 PM  
Eternals was based on Chariots of the Gods.
 
2021-06-08 5:38:20 PM  

Night Train to Wakanda: Anything the helps sink the trash that is eternals is ok by me.


Maybe the Eternals are responsible for the Vibranium meteorite.
 
2021-06-08 5:58:03 PM  
God-like beings appearing to help mankind is a common fictional trope throughout the entire history of storytelling. It's literally in the myths of pretty much every culture ever.

Ancient Aliens is just a modern version of the same line, often using those old stories, because religion is farked up and mythology is boring school crap to the average schlub.

If the idiot TFA writer had known anything about storytelling they not have vomited forth such a useless opinion.
 
2021-06-08 6:06:13 PM  
they deny predominately non-Western cultures of their ability and accomplishments.

Nah, that ancient aliens show stabs at western culture also. While not as much as others but even into more modern time where they imply Einstein and Tesla would have never accomplished anything without alien intervention.
That show belittled and insulted every race implying we'd all be sitting around in our own waste without the aliens.
 
2021-06-08 6:06:14 PM  

t3knomanser: That's not really how it works, though. Like, nobody really tries to claim that the Cerne Abbas Giant is the result of aliens, but strangely, the Nazca Lines must be. While there are ancient aliens stories for stuff like Stonehenge, they're not nearly as dominant as, say, the Egyptian Pyramids. No one questions the grand architecture of the Roman Empire, but the Mayans had to be helped by aliens.


Yeah, your equating civilizations with written history with those that didn't really have it. Apples and oranges here. Even Stonehenge has a lot of history behind it compared to some of the other stuff.
 
2021-06-08 6:14:39 PM  

Public Call Box: EdwardTellerhands: Kirby was "into eugenics"? Show your work.

Kirby was into punching Nazis. Full Stop.

/Wot a revoltin' development this is.


Eugenics was invented by the British.
It's not exclusive to Nazis.
 
2021-06-08 6:15:09 PM  

Mikey1969: t3knomanser: That's not really how it works, though. Like, nobody really tries to claim that the Cerne Abbas Giant is the result of aliens, but strangely, the Nazca Lines must be. While there are ancient aliens stories for stuff like Stonehenge, they're not nearly as dominant as, say, the Egyptian Pyramids. No one questions the grand architecture of the Roman Empire, but the Mayans had to be helped by aliens.

Yeah, your equating civilizations with written history with those that didn't really have it. Apples and oranges here. Even Stonehenge has a lot of history behind it compared to some of the other stuff.


The lack of self-awareness is hilarious.
 
2021-06-08 6:20:39 PM  
i.imgur.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-08 6:21:20 PM  

Herr Flick's Revenge: Public Call Box: EdwardTellerhands: Kirby was "into eugenics"? Show your work.

Kirby was into punching Nazis. Full Stop.

/Wot a revoltin' development this is.

Eugenics was invented by the British.
It's not exclusive to Nazis.


Nobody "invented" Eugenics. Dalton coined the term for a practice that went back millennia.
 
2021-06-08 6:25:52 PM  

EdwardTellerhands: Kirby was "into eugenics"? Show your work.


Dude he has a really dark side people don't know about

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-06-08 6:26:57 PM  

EdwardTellerhands: Herr Flick's Revenge: Public Call Box: EdwardTellerhands: Kirby was "into eugenics"? Show your work.

Kirby was into punching Nazis. Full Stop.

/Wot a revoltin' development this is.

Eugenics was invented by the British.
It's not exclusive to Nazis.

Nobody "invented" Eugenics. Dalton coined the term for a practice that went back millennia.


Ok, he came up with the brand name Eugenics.
Yes, selective breeding of humans for specific traits has occurred throughout history.
It wasn't branded as Eugenics until the British came up with their eugenics program.
 
2021-06-08 6:30:58 PM  

Herr Flick's Revenge: EdwardTellerhands: Herr Flick's Revenge: Public Call Box: EdwardTellerhands: Kirby was "into eugenics"? Show your work.

Kirby was into punching Nazis. Full Stop.

/Wot a revoltin' development this is.

Eugenics was invented by the British.
It's not exclusive to Nazis.

Nobody "invented" Eugenics. Dalton coined the term for a practice that went back millennia.

Ok, he came up with the brand name Eugenics.
Yes, selective breeding of humans for specific traits has occurred throughout history.
It wasn't branded as Eugenics until the British came up with their eugenics program.


wut? I meant optimizing livestock and crops.
 
2021-06-08 6:55:52 PM  

Mikey1969: t3knomanser: That's not really how it works, though. Like, nobody really tries to claim that the Cerne Abbas Giant is the result of aliens, but strangely, the Nazca Lines must be. While there are ancient aliens stories for stuff like Stonehenge, they're not nearly as dominant as, say, the Egyptian Pyramids. No one questions the grand architecture of the Roman Empire, but the Mayans had to be helped by aliens.

Yeah, your equating civilizations with written history with those that didn't really have it. Apples and oranges here. Even Stonehenge has a lot of history behind it compared to some of the other stuff.


The Mayans, Aztecs and Incas all had written histories (I believe one less so than the others) but that was almost all destroyed by the Spaniards.
 
2021-06-08 6:57:53 PM  
But anyway, The Eternals isn't history it's entertainment.
If you can't differentiate between the two, perhaps you should seek help.
 
2021-06-08 7:16:41 PM  

Mikey1969: t3knomanser: That's not really how it works, though. Like, nobody really tries to claim that the Cerne Abbas Giant is the result of aliens, but strangely, the Nazca Lines must be. While there are ancient aliens stories for stuff like Stonehenge, they're not nearly as dominant as, say, the Egyptian Pyramids. No one questions the grand architecture of the Roman Empire, but the Mayans had to be helped by aliens.

Yeah, your equating civilizations with written history with those that didn't really have it. Apples and oranges here. Even Stonehenge has a lot of history behind it compared to some of the other stuff.


And anyway everyone knows Stonehenge was built by ancient sorcerers
 
2021-06-08 7:18:58 PM  
I wonder what the Library of Alexandria had on this topic? Is there an "ancient aliens" show about that? Was it full of documents that had shown that aliens built all the brown peoples' works?

Or, could it be possible that the Library contained proof that extreme stone masonry and carving techniques existed for generations before it was burned to the ground?
 
2021-06-08 7:20:16 PM  
If you support this movie, you support Hitler.
 
2021-06-08 7:27:29 PM  

Trik: The Mayans, Aztecs and Incas all had written histories (I believe one less so than the others) but that was almost all destroyed by the Spaniards.


Mayans and Aztecs, yes. But the Inca infamously had no written language.
 
2021-06-08 7:55:23 PM  

Fano: Mikey1969: t3knomanser: That's not really how it works, though. Like, nobody really tries to claim that the Cerne Abbas Giant is the result of aliens, but strangely, the Nazca Lines must be. While there are ancient aliens stories for stuff like Stonehenge, they're not nearly as dominant as, say, the Egyptian Pyramids. No one questions the grand architecture of the Roman Empire, but the Mayans had to be helped by aliens.

Yeah, your equating civilizations with written history with those that didn't really have it. Apples and oranges here. Even Stonehenge has a lot of history behind it compared to some of the other stuff.

And anyway everyone knows Stonehenge was built by ancient sorcerers



Charisma-based classes can actually build stuff now?

5e is weird, I tell ya.  Back in the day, sorcerers were just a step above bards.

Wizards, now....

You're not a real wizard until you've built your own tower full of magical books.
 
2021-06-08 8:19:35 PM  

Public Call Box: I think they can walk that line, very well.
But I really do want to see this one.


I agree with your first sentence, but not your second.
 
2021-06-08 8:24:10 PM  

Mikey1969: Oh, JFC, now the 'Ancient Aliens' theory is "racist"?


I  would say it's a form of "privileging the present." Not racist, but kind of racist adjacent?

I hate the ancient aliens trope in fiction and I'm a non-woke white male.
 
2021-06-08 8:27:15 PM  
jujst a rip-off of his work for DC
 
2021-06-08 8:28:25 PM  

Boudyro: God-like beings appearing to help mankind is a common fictional trope throughout the entire history of storytelling. It's literally in the myths of pretty much every culture ever.


"It's an old trope" is not mutually exclusive to "it's a dumb trope."
 
2021-06-08 8:31:14 PM  

Mikey1969: Oh, JFC, now the 'Ancient Aliens' theory is "racist"?

They aren't saying that these cultures couldn't build their great works because they were POC, they're saying that NOBODY could build that shiat back then. FFS, not everything that is related to POC is racist. I'm sure aliens didn't come to Earth and help ancient civilizations build shiat, but saying that they did isn't farking racist.


It always has been. It's a direct result of the European idea that local cultures couldn't have built Great Zimbabwe, Cahokia, Angkor Wat, and a thousand other megaliths and metropolises. Obviously, they had to have been built by Chinese or Viking explorers or the perennial favorites, the 10 lost tribes. Once that theory fell out of favor, it's only a hope skip and a jump to aliens building the same things. There really is a one-to-one correlation in a lot of cases, with exactly the same arguments being used for, say, pyramids and Easter Island. Chariots of the Gods and other nonsense only reinforced the ideas.
 
2021-06-08 8:42:00 PM  

Permanent Solutions For Permanent Problems: Boudyro: God-like beings appearing to help mankind is a common fictional trope throughout the entire history of storytelling. It's literally in the myths of pretty much every culture ever.

"It's an old trope" is not mutually exclusive to "it's a dumb trope."


No. It's a trope you don't like. There's a difference.

It's okay for you not to like things. Just remember most people don't don't really respond to declarations on things you don't like unless they agree with you.

It's more fun and interesting for all those involved if we talk about things we have in common. Like thinking the Ancient Aliens show is made by tools.
 
2021-06-08 8:58:18 PM  
So, hey...can we maybe NOT try to manufacture and perpetuate ill-informed, baseless outrage over something just because it's popular and it's hip and trendy to want popular things to fail and/or be canceled?  Cuz that'd be awesome; thanks.
 
2021-06-08 9:47:41 PM  

t3knomanser: Mikey1969: They aren't saying that these cultures couldn't build their great works because they were POC, they're saying that NOBODY could build that shiat back then

That's not really how it works, though. Like, nobody really tries to claim that the Cerne Abbas Giant is the result of aliens, but strangely, the Nazca Lines must be. While there are ancient aliens stories for stuff like Stonehenge, they're not nearly as dominant as, say, the Egyptian Pyramids. No one questions the grand architecture of the Roman Empire, but the Mayans had to be helped by aliens.

It's also rooted in a kind of modernist bias: that modern the human is wiser, more intelligent, and more capable than our forbears, and that's just not true. Oh, we've got a much broader base of knowledge and built infrastructure to draw off of, sure, but we're using the same brain to think with. Ancient humans were just as clever as we are, possibly more clever because of the limitations they were working under.

There's also a big difference between recognizing that something has its roots in biased interpretations of history, and being racist in the David Duke sense. Racism is less about individual actions and more about the social context in which actions take place.


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-08 9:54:40 PM  
Clickbait headline in my CBR link? It's more likely than you think!
 
2021-06-08 10:13:19 PM  

Ishkur: Trik: The Mayans, Aztecs and Incas all had written histories (I believe one less so than the others) but that was almost all destroyed by the Spaniards.

Mayans and Aztecs, yes. But the Inca infamously had no written language.


I knew one had considerably less or none, but wasn't sure which one.
And if I guessed and was wrong, I'd get a bunch of outrage junkies shrieking 'racist' at me.
 
2021-06-08 10:15:25 PM  

Fano: Mikey1969: t3knomanser: That's not really how it works, though. Like, nobody really tries to claim that the Cerne Abbas Giant is the result of aliens, but strangely, the Nazca Lines must be. While there are ancient aliens stories for stuff like Stonehenge, they're not nearly as dominant as, say, the Egyptian Pyramids. No one questions the grand architecture of the Roman Empire, but the Mayans had to be helped by aliens.

Yeah, your equating civilizations with written history with those that didn't really have it. Apples and oranges here. Even Stonehenge has a lot of history behind it compared to some of the other stuff.

And anyway everyone knows Stonehenge was built by ancient sorcerers


So you're saying we're dealing with the big three, aliens, androids, and wizards.
 
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