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(ProPublica)   Just how angry do you want to be today? IRS files of the richest 25 Americans show they pay just 3.4% in taxes   (propublica.org) divider line
    More: Obvious, Taxation in the United States, Tax, Taxation, federal income taxes, Income tax, Income tax in the United States, Corporate tax, federal income tax  
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1602 clicks; posted to Politics » and Main » on 08 Jun 2021 at 8:38 AM (2 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-06-08 8:08:34 AM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-06-08 8:14:24 AM  
The system is working exactly as designed. If you vote for conservatives and this pisses you off, you have no one to blame but yourself.
 
2021-06-08 8:14:47 AM  
Because they, their lawyers, and accountants bribe the politicians to write the tax code for them.

Just ask former Senator Bob Corker how much he loves the tax carve out he got for himself and other property investors.

It's the heist of the century and they are robbing from us all. You and me. They are stealing from us and our children.
 
2021-06-08 8:21:22 AM  
I wish I had egregious and socially irresponsible tax "savings" year after year to lavish on my personal security teams that make me feel better about the fact that a lot of people resent the hell out of me.
 
2021-06-08 8:28:07 AM  
This is fark. Most of the pol tab really can't get much angrier.
 
2021-06-08 8:32:37 AM  
Here is what I don't understand. I have my own business (2 actualy) and those businesses usually pay little in taxes because of writeoffs and expenses. But my personal taxes I still pay the normal rate. How are these people able to use their business losses to lower their personal tax rate??
 
2021-06-08 8:36:58 AM  

tfresh: This is fark. Most of the pol tab really can't get much angrier.


Except it's really hard to blame progressives for this, but I'm sure conservatives will find a way to do it anyway.
 
2021-06-08 8:38:05 AM  

Dinki: Here is what I don't understand. I have my own business (2 actualy) and those businesses usually pay little in taxes because of writeoffs and expenses. But my personal taxes I still pay the normal rate. How are these people able to use their business losses to lower their personal tax rate??


They've shed their humanity to be corporate personae.
 
2021-06-08 8:42:13 AM  

AdmirableSnackbar: tfresh: This is fark. Most of the pol tab really can't get much angrier.

Except it's really hard to blame progressives for this, but I'm sure conservatives will find a way to do it anyway.


Well, it is called the PROGRESSIVE tax.

heh...
 
2021-06-08 8:43:44 AM  

Dinki: Here is what I don't understand. I have my own business (2 actualy) and those businesses usually pay little in taxes because of writeoffs and expenses. But my personal taxes I still pay the normal rate. How are these people able to use their business losses to lower their personal tax rate??


If you never sell the vast majority of the assets you own and 95% of your income is unrealized capital gains you'll never pay any taxes on those gains.  There's also something called "like-kind exchange" where you can sell land or similar assets and buy similar property in a certain way with various minor restrictions and pay little or no tax on the transaction.

If they eliminate the estate tax all these people could pass this wealth on and they and their heirs may never pay any taxes on gains from capital gains income long-held capital assets.
 
2021-06-08 8:44:18 AM  
Hardly surprising.

Of course morons will phrase it that those 25 people pay so much more than other people and so really it's unfair that they pay so much. And if those people with less than nothing would just pay taxes then everything will be fine.

Expect them here if this goes green
 
2021-06-08 8:45:49 AM  
THE LESS TAXES THEY PAY, THE LESS MONEY IS AVAILABLE FOR ABORTIONS!
 
2021-06-08 8:46:03 AM  
(fewer)
 
2021-06-08 8:46:23 AM  
Ok. That last sentence should be: "If they eliminate the estate tax, all these people could pass this wealth on and they and their heirs may never pay any taxes on income from capital gains on these long-held capital assets."
 
2021-06-08 8:53:49 AM  

Breaker Moran: Dinki: Here is what I don't understand. I have my own business (2 actualy) and those businesses usually pay little in taxes because of writeoffs and expenses. But my personal taxes I still pay the normal rate. How are these people able to use their business losses to lower their personal tax rate??

They've shed their humanity to be corporate personae.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-06-08 8:55:10 AM  

tfresh: This is fark. Most of the pol tab really can't get much angrier.


YES IT CAN!!!!! SHUT UP!!!!! I WILL HUNT YOU DOWN AND KILL YOU!


/just kidding modmins.
 
2021-06-08 8:55:50 AM  

Petit_Merdeux: (fewer)


(I told you not to call me that in public)

/(why are we talking like this?)
 
2021-06-08 8:55:55 AM  

Breaker Moran: Dinki: Here is what I don't understand. I have my own business (2 actualy) and those businesses usually pay little in taxes because of writeoffs and expenses. But my personal taxes I still pay the normal rate. How are these people able to use their business losses to lower their personal tax rate??

They've shed their humanity to be corporate personae.


Billionaires don't have humanity. You don't get to billions of dollars that way
 
2021-06-08 8:56:22 AM  
I hate the tax system and blame it for the impending downfall of America as much as anyone, but this article is clickbait. Unrealized capital gains aren't subject to income tax because they're unrealized. It's not a loophole.

If you want the billionaires to pay their fair share then tax realized long term capital gains at the same rate as income.
 
2021-06-08 8:56:55 AM  

Scythed: I hate the tax system and blame it for the impending downfall of America as much as anyone, but this article is clickbait. Unrealized capital gains aren't subject to income tax because they're unrealized. It's not a loophole.

If you want the billionaires to pay their fair share then tax realized long term capital gains at the same rate as income.


Except for that realized word, I agree.
 
2021-06-08 8:58:11 AM  

Scythed: If you want the billionaires to pay their fair share then tax realized long term capital gains at the same rate as income.


Also, vote for people who want to make this happen and don't vote for people who want to make this not happen.
 
2021-06-08 8:58:51 AM  

Dinki: Here is what I don't understand. I have my own business (2 actualy) and those businesses usually pay little in taxes because of writeoffs and expenses. But my personal taxes I still pay the normal rate. How are these people able to use their business losses to lower their personal tax rate??


Because ProPublica is actually using a slight of hand here. They are NOT judging these 25 on their income. They are doing it on their capital appreciation. They are comparing the taxes paid to the increase in the individual's net worth. This article is an argument for a wealth tax, not a judgement on the income tax rate.
 
2021-06-08 8:59:35 AM  
The day started by reading that Biden's justice department wants to defend Trump against E Jean Carroll. It will probably be an angry day.
 
2021-06-08 9:01:03 AM  

dsmith42: Dinki: Here is what I don't understand. I have my own business (2 actualy) and those businesses usually pay little in taxes because of writeoffs and expenses. But my personal taxes I still pay the normal rate. How are these people able to use their business losses to lower their personal tax rate??

Because ProPublica is actually using a slight of hand here. They are NOT judging these 25 on their income. They are doing it on their capital appreciation. They are comparing the taxes paid to the increase in the individual's net worth. This article is an argument for a wealth tax, not a judgement on the income tax rate.


It's both.

We could change the words "capital appreciation" to "income". There. Problem solved.
 
2021-06-08 9:02:35 AM  

Too-Tall: Dinki: Here is what I don't understand. I have my own business (2 actualy) and those businesses usually pay little in taxes because of writeoffs and expenses. But my personal taxes I still pay the normal rate. How are these people able to use their business losses to lower their personal tax rate??

If you never sell the vast majority of the assets you own and 95% of your income is unrealized capital gains you'll never pay any taxes on those gains.  There's also something called "like-kind exchange" where you can sell land or similar assets and buy similar property in a certain way with various minor restrictions and pay little or no tax on the transaction.

If they eliminate the estate tax all these people could pass this wealth on and they and their heirs may never pay any taxes on gains from capital gains income long-held capital assets.


The next best part is that rather than sell the shares to generate liquidity, banks will provide loans using the shares as collateral (and at really low rates). This means that they don't have to sell many shares to get cash, protecting against realizing gains. The kicker is that the interest from the loans can also be deducted.
 
2021-06-08 9:02:46 AM  
Angry? How many of us are even surprised?
 
2021-06-08 9:03:17 AM  
I, for one, am shocked...  SHOCKED.   That it is that high.    I must get better accountants.

How does one get a tax return?  By over paying during the year?  Yeah.  No.  If I want someone to use my money, I should demand an interest upon repayment.
 
2021-06-08 9:03:21 AM  
We must give a handful of white all the world's wealth and then wait for it to trickle down. Just wait for it. It will trickle down. I promise. Really. Trickle trickle. If it hasn't trickled down to you yet, you just haven't waited long enough.
 
2021-06-08 9:03:39 AM  

Too-Tall: Dinki: Here is what I don't understand. I have my own business (2 actualy) and those businesses usually pay little in taxes because of writeoffs and expenses. But my personal taxes I still pay the normal rate. How are these people able to use their business losses to lower their personal tax rate??

If you never sell the vast majority of the assets you own and 95% of your income is unrealized capital gains you'll never pay any taxes on those gains.  There's also something called "like-kind exchange" where you can sell land or similar assets and buy similar property in a certain way with various minor restrictions and pay little or no tax on the transaction.

If they eliminate the estate tax all these people could pass this wealth on and they and their heirs may never pay any taxes on gains from capital gains income long-held capital assets.


That, and it turns out if your house is owned by You, Inc. and your car is leased by You, Inc. and your plane is maintained by You, Inc., you get to start the whole tax game from the lower business rate to start with and then deduct down from there.  Take Kelly Loffler's jet, they intentionally put a Trump loophole into the last tax revision to let her write the whole thing down until it's free.  Capitalism!
 
2021-06-08 9:04:00 AM  
Gazillionaires not paying taxes? Quit yer biatchin'. Just as long as I can strap on 3 AR-15s when I go to get milk at Safeway.
 
2021-06-08 9:04:19 AM  
"Yeah, but, but, but.. 3.4% of a lot is waaaay more than....whatever!"

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-06-08 9:05:48 AM  

Dinki: Here is what I don't understand. I have my own business (2 actualy) and those businesses usually pay little in taxes because of writeoffs and expenses. But my personal taxes I still pay the normal rate. How are these people able to use their business losses to lower their personal tax rate??


They're not. Pro Publica just made up their own definition of income.  Imagine that last year someone offered you $2 mm to buy your businesses and you said no.  And this year someone comes along and offers you $10 million to buy the businesses and you told them no, too.  To Pro Publica, you had $8 million of income this year.
 
2021-06-08 9:05:50 AM  
So, side question.

How many people will be outraged at how ProPublica got this information.

And will it be a perfect circle with the people who still defend WikiLeaks
 
2021-06-08 9:06:04 AM  
The lesson is the same as it has been for the last fifty years: stop electing Republicans
 
2021-06-08 9:06:26 AM  

Manfred J. Hattan: Dinki: Here is what I don't understand. I have my own business (2 actualy) and those businesses usually pay little in taxes because of writeoffs and expenses. But my personal taxes I still pay the normal rate. How are these people able to use their business losses to lower their personal tax rate??

They're not. Pro Publica just made up their own definition of income.  Imagine that last year someone offered you $2 mm to buy your businesses and you said no.  And this year someone comes along and offers you $10 million to buy the businesses and you told them no, too.  To Pro Publica, you had $8 million of income this year.


You're looking for the word wealth.

You may know this word from Liz Warren and the wealth tax proposals.
 
2021-06-08 9:06:38 AM  

Scythed: I hate the tax system and blame it for the impending downfall of America as much as anyone, but this article is clickbait. Unrealized capital gains aren't subject to income tax because they're unrealized. It's not a loophole.

If you want the billionaires to pay their fair share then tax realized long term capital gains at the same rate as income.


The first step is informing people about it, so if it takes click-bait to do that, then I'm ok with it.
 
2021-06-08 9:06:40 AM  

The Ocho: Too-Tall: Dinki: Here is what I don't understand. I have my own business (2 actualy) and those businesses usually pay little in taxes because of writeoffs and expenses. But my personal taxes I still pay the normal rate. How are these people able to use their business losses to lower their personal tax rate??

If you never sell the vast majority of the assets you own and 95% of your income is unrealized capital gains you'll never pay any taxes on those gains.  There's also something called "like-kind exchange" where you can sell land or similar assets and buy similar property in a certain way with various minor restrictions and pay little or no tax on the transaction.

If they eliminate the estate tax all these people could pass this wealth on and they and their heirs may never pay any taxes on gains from capital gains income long-held capital assets.

The next best part is that rather than sell the shares to generate liquidity, banks will provide loans using the shares as collateral (and at really low rates). This means that they don't have to sell many shares to get cash, protecting against realizing gains. The kicker is that the interest from the loans can also be deducted.


Thanks for adding that. I wanted to but can only spend so much time on it before i get blindingly angry.
 
2021-06-08 9:06:44 AM  
FTFA: "In 2011, a year in which his wealth held roughly steady at $18 billion, Bezos filed a tax return reporting he lost money - his income that year was more than offset by investment losses. What's more, because, according to the tax law, he made so little, he even claimed and received a $4,000 tax credit for his children."

I never wanted a thruster malfunction to ping a spaceship into the sun until I read that.
 
2021-06-08 9:06:57 AM  

qorkfiend: The lesson is the same as it has been for the last fifty years: stop electing Republicans


No matter which political party they're in.
 
2021-06-08 9:07:15 AM  

Dinki: Here is what I don't understand. I have my own business (2 actualy) and those businesses usually pay little in taxes because of writeoffs and expenses. But my personal taxes I still pay the normal rate. How are these people able to use their business losses to lower their personal tax rate??


Let me guess, you a have Chapter S corp. right? That's what the IRS did to try to stop this kind of thing.

With accountants and lawyers, you set up real corporations that make their own money, they "pay" you less than all the profits, so your income is less (you pay less taxes). These corps should being big taxes on these profits, but they are moving money overseas, and creating non-profit charities they own and control and a million other ways of screwing with money and accounting that you can only achieve by paying accountants hundreds of thousands of dollars to save you millions in taxes.

oh, cheating. also there's cheating.
 
2021-06-08 9:07:35 AM  
And they are so mad about that that they donate to politicians to change it.  Changing it to zero would not be enough, They want you to pay them.  Hmmm. We already sort of have a system like that.

Remember when Rmoney was running and he released one year of his taxes?  They had to basically not take some deductions that he took every year to get his rate up to 17% so it would not look super bad. They had to not claim all the donations to the tax free non profit Mitt and Ann Romney foundation that they control and that pays them.
 
2021-06-08 9:07:57 AM  

Dinki: Here is what I don't understand. I have my own business (2 actualy) and those businesses usually pay little in taxes because of writeoffs and expenses. But my personal taxes I still pay the normal rate. How are these people able to use their business losses to lower their personal tax rate??


Form a fake consulting company, use your "new" company to hire out your own services as CEO, pay yourself in shares of your company's stock, borrow against that stock using it as collateral, write off the whole thing, and then your effective tax rate is as low as the interest on the secured loan.

Or you can be like my skeevy relative, and make sure every vacation is a "business trip", every car is a company car, and nearly every household expense is a "business expense".
 
2021-06-08 9:08:30 AM  

Petit_Merdeux: THE LESS TAXES THEY PAY, THE LESS MONEY IS AVAILABLE FOR ABORTIONS!


What is a less tax?  A tax on booze or a tax on food?  Oh, I get it now.  Hint:  less is qualitative, FEWER is quantitative.
 
2021-06-08 9:11:12 AM  

Gubbo: So, side question.

How many people will be outraged at how ProPublica got this information.

And will it be a perfect circle with the people who still defend WikiLeaks


Access to taxpayer information at the IRS is logged, especially famous people that attract "lookie-loos". And as these taxpayers have been identified in the pro publica article, TIGTA is going to have a field day.

Some soon to be former IRS agent is going to jail. Hope it was worth it, buddy.
 
2021-06-08 9:11:16 AM  
Scythed: I hate the tax system and blame it for the impending downfall of America as much as anyone, but this article is clickbait. Unrealized capital gains aren't subject to income tax because they're unrealized. It's not a loophole.

If you want the billionaires to pay their fair share then tax realized long term capital gains at the same rate as income.

Or maybe "poor" Americans should invest in our country instead of just buying the latest iPhone.
 
2021-06-08 9:12:39 AM  

RasIanI: "Yeah, but, but, but.. 3.4% of a lot is waaaay more than....whatever!"

[Fark user image image 282x257]


I not approve your image Saint Fred
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-06-08 9:12:42 AM  

Scythed: I hate the tax system and blame it for the impending downfall of America as much as anyone, but this article is clickbait. Unrealized capital gains aren't subject to income tax because they're unrealized. It's not a loophole.

If you want the billionaires to pay their fair share then tax realized long term capital gains at the same rate as income.


The article points out that even leaving aside the unrealized capital gains, their effective tax rate is 3.4%

Whether it's legal or not isnt even the question raised.  Whether to continue allowing the system that enables it IS the question.
 
2021-06-08 9:13:34 AM  
Didn't the French solve this problem during a revolution? Are we there yet or are the lawyers, lobby groups, and PACs still holding up the works?
 
2021-06-08 9:13:50 AM  

RasIanI: "Yeah, but, but, but.. 3.4% of a lot is waaaay more than....whatever!"

[Fark user image image 282x257]


Hell, the article points out it takes 14 million working people to achieve the same level of income BUT those 14 million paid 10 times more in taxes.
 
2021-06-08 9:15:24 AM  

HotWingConspiracy: The day started by reading that Biden's justice department wants to defend Trump against E Jean Carroll. It will probably be an angry day.


*record scratch*
.....wtf?
 
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