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(The Verge)   T-Mobile Store employee to HR: A male co-worker of mine physically assaulted me in front of customers. HR guy who is REALLY bad at his job: So...tell me about your OnlyFans account. Employee: yeah, that's a giant farking lawsuit   (theverge.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Violence, Caitlyn Stevens, Leave, Employment, Gender, Leave of absence, Domestic violence, What Happened  
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2490 clicks; posted to Business » on 05 Jun 2021 at 4:12 PM (6 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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7 days ago  
There;s an HR worker who is really good at his job?
 
7 days ago  
Lawyers live for this.
 
6 days ago  
The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.
 
6 days ago  
She's going to clean up on this and rightly so. Good for her not taking the settlement.
 
6 days ago  
So T-Mobile investigates HR complaints by running a social media check on the complaining employee so they have a basis for firing them if they don't shut up.

Like every other HR in the country.

T-Mobile was just less subtle about it.
 
6 days ago  
This really happened.

OKJan.gif
 
6 days ago  

The Smails Kid: This really happened.

OKJan.gif


I'm a super lib but I have my doubts about this story.
 
6 days ago  
This link needs pics to help me better decide my level of outrage
 
6 days ago  
Did he fix the libel?

/dnrtfa
//I have a GED in legal puns
 
6 days ago  

The Smails Kid: This really happened.

OKJan.gif


Any article that mentions an OnlyFans account by name is an ad.
 
6 days ago  

Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.


Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.
 
6 days ago  

American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.


So what should 40 hours a week of work get you?
 
6 days ago  

BadReligion: American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.

So what should 40 hours a week of work get you?


Enough to pay for the child care required to work that job, this forcing women to give up working and take their rightful place in the home servicing the needs of her man and caring for children.

Duh.
 
6 days ago  
I'm honestly not surprised. Most HR departments are dumber than rocks.
/have you ever met an intelligent person that wasn't a Karen or Chad in HR?
 
6 days ago  

BadReligion: American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.

So what should 40 hours a week of work get you?


Whatever the employee and employer agree upon.
 
6 days ago  

American-Irish eyes: BadReligion: American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.

So what should 40 hours a week of work get you?

Whatever the employee and employer agree upon.


That should be a living wage.
 
6 days ago  

AllCatsAreBeautiful: I'm honestly not surprised. Most HR departments are dumber than rocks.
/have you ever met an intelligent person that wasn't a Karen or Chad in HR?


I have worked with a few that were really good at their jobs. One was the first company I work for back in the early 80's, they fired a few men for sexual harassment issues, one of the complaints was filed by a black lesbian and this was in Virginia.  Honestly, the Head of HR was a man and he knew how to handle the sexual harassment issues much better than Biden and Co did for Anita Hill.
 
6 days ago  

discoballer: American-Irish eyes: BadReligion: American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.

So what should 40 hours a week of work get you?

Whatever the employee and employer agree upon.

That should be a living wage.


That isn't what they agreed upon, that is what you as a third party observer believe.
 
6 days ago  

American-Irish eyes: discoballer: American-Irish eyes: BadReligion: American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.

So what should 40 hours a week of work get you?

Whatever the employee and employer agree upon.

That should be a living wage.

That isn't what they agreed upon, that is what you as a third party observer believe.


Oh, I know. Kind of hard to get a living wage when employers won't agree to it, and subpar wages are better than starving.
 
6 days ago  
A picture of T-Mobile's HR Manager:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
6 days ago  

discoballer: American-Irish eyes: discoballer: American-Irish eyes: BadReligion: American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.

So what should 40 hours a week of work get you?

Whatever the employee and employer agree upon.

That should be a living wage.

That isn't what they agreed upon, that is what you as a third party observer believe.

Oh, I know. Kind of hard to get a living wage when employers won't agree to it, and subpar wages are better than starving.


Why would an employer pay living wages if the next applicant will make the reasonable agreement to work for what the employer is offering.
 
6 days ago  

American-Irish eyes: discoballer: American-Irish eyes: discoballer: American-Irish eyes: BadReligion: American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.

So what should 40 hours a week of work get you?

Whatever the employee and employer agree upon.

That should be a living wage.

That isn't what they agreed upon, that is what you as a third party observer believe.

Oh, I know. Kind of hard to get a living wage when employers won't agree to it, and subpar wages are better than starving.

Why would an employer pay living wages if the next applicant will make the reasonable agreement to work for what the employer is offering.


That very question is the seed of exploitation in this country. And it's not reasonable.
 
6 days ago  

discoballer: American-Irish eyes: discoballer: American-Irish eyes: discoballer: American-Irish eyes: BadReligion: American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.

So what should 40 hours a week of work get you?

Whatever the employee and employer agree upon.

That should be a living wage.

That isn't what they agreed upon, that is what you as a third party observer believe.

Oh, I know. Kind of hard to get a living wage when employers won't agree to it, and subpar wages are better than starving.

Why would an employer pay living wages if the next applicant will make the reasonable agreement to work for what the employer is offering.

That very question is the seed of exploitation in this country. And it's not reasonable.


What's the problem?  It has raised more people out of poverty than any other economic theory.  The other prevailing economic theory has lead to far worst results over the past 100 years.
 
6 days ago  

American-Irish eyes: BadReligion: American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.

So what should 40 hours a week of work get you?

Whatever the employee and employer agree upon.


Who has the power in that relationship?

You're a disingenuous fool if you want to claim that both sides have equal power in that situation or that anything even approximating a negotiation is taking place.

But no, we get it. You're a 'fark you, I got mine' capitalist who has never struggled a day in his life and thinks that poor people need to be severely punished for choosing to be poor so that they will decide NOT to be poor.
 
6 days ago  

American-Irish eyes: discoballer: American-Irish eyes: discoballer: American-Irish eyes: discoballer: American-Irish eyes: BadReligion: American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.

So what should 40 hours a week of work get you?

Whatever the employee and employer agree upon.

That should be a living wage.

That isn't what they agreed upon, that is what you as a third party observer believe.

Oh, I know. Kind of hard to get a living wage when employers won't agree to it, and subpar wages are better than starving.

Why would an employer pay living wages if the next applicant will make the reasonable agreement to work for what the employer is offering.

That very question is the seed of exploitation in this country. And it's not reasonable.

What's the problem?  It has raised more people out of poverty than any other economic theory.  The other prevailing economic theory has lead to far worst results over the past 100 years.


The problem is when there are so many people that employers know they can get away with standing firm on unfair wages because there will be someone desperate or stupid enough to take them. When corporate expansion and profit is put on a higher priority than being ethical and fair.
 
6 days ago  

American-Irish eyes: discoballer: American-Irish eyes: discoballer: American-Irish eyes: discoballer: American-Irish eyes: BadReligion: American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.

So what should 40 hours a week of work get you?

Whatever the employee and employer agree upon.

That should be a living wage.

That isn't what they agreed upon, that is what you as a third party observer believe.

Oh, I know. Kind of hard to get a living wage when employers won't agree to it, and subpar wages are better than starving.

Why would an employer pay living wages if the next applicant will make the reasonable agreement to work for what the employer is offering.

That very question is the seed of exploitation in this country. And it's not reasonable.

What's the problem?  It has raised more people out of poverty than any other economic theory.  The other prevailing economic theory has lead to far worst results over the past 100 years.


You're not supposed to deep throat the boot my dude. T-Mobile isn't going to fark you.
 
6 days ago  

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: American-Irish eyes: BadReligion: American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.

So what should 40 hours a week of work get you?

Whatever the employee and employer agree upon.

Who has the power in that relationship?

You're a disingenuous fool if you want to claim that both sides have equal power in that situation or that anything even approximating a negotiation is taking place.

But no, we get it. You're a 'fark you, I got mine' capitalist who has never struggled a day in his life and thinks that poor people need to be severely punished for choosing to be poor so that they will decide NOT to be poor.


You are right the employer in this case has more power.  The way to change this is to have more marketable skills and to apply them to a different more difficult job.  Do you think Bill Gates would make considerable more wages than you or I if we all worked at a cellphone store selling phones?
 
6 days ago  
I didn't know Ferengis posted on Fark.
 
6 days ago  
"He approached her "in a physically aggressive manager," forcing a coworker to step in and stop the man from hitting her.

So the co-worker was in a particularly aggressive manager, is that what I'm reading?  What do they have at T-Mobile, the power to enter one anothers bodies and take over? Is there a picture of the OnlyFans woman? Just asking because I want to get some context in a confusing story.
 
6 days ago  

American-Irish eyes: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: American-Irish eyes: BadReligion: American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.

So what should 40 hours a week of work get you?

Whatever the employee and employer agree upon.

Who has the power in that relationship?

You're a disingenuous fool if you want to claim that both sides have equal power in that situation or that anything even approximating a negotiation is taking place.

But no, we get it. You're a 'fark you, I got mine' capitalist who has never struggled a day in his life and thinks that poor people need to be severely punished for choosing to be poor so that they will decide NOT to be poor.

You are right the employer in this case has more power.  The way to change this is to have more marketable skills and to apply them to a different more difficult job.  Do you think Bill Gates would make considerable more wages than you or I if we all worked at a cellphone store selling phones?


The question is how much the company profits from those phone sales, and how much the employee comparatively receives for facilitating it. If they can't pay a fair wage, they need a different business model.
 
6 days ago  
I don't get the outrage.... people get fired all the time for things they do on the internet.   Is she impervious to conduct rules?

The only way she has a case, is if she can prove this is retaliation from the earlier complaint.... It might be...but we don't have enough information from the article.   For all we know... its 2 separate and unrelated incidents that she is conflating.
 
6 days ago  
American-Irish eyes:

You are right the employer in this case has more power.  The way to change this is to have more marketable skills and to apply them to a different more difficult job.  Do you think Bill Gates would make considerable more wages than you or I if we all worked at a cellphone store selling phones?

So do you think the 26 million people who work in the retail and restaurant fields don't deserve to make a living wage because those are just starter or low level jobs not meant to be ones people can make a living at?  So all the clerks at your grocery stores, cell phone stores, clothing stores, all the servers and cooks at the restaurants you eat at... NONE of them deserve a living wage?

It might come as a shock to you, but we need people to do those jobs. Not everyone has the opportunity to learn more and get a better, higher paying job; and not everyone is capable of doing so. Your philosophy condemns them all to poverty, because you refuse any solution other than "your problem, not mine, do better!"
 
6 days ago  
Companies can pay crap wages and give crap conditions when the employees allow it.

The reason why so many companies fight unions so hard is because, collectively it is more difficult to get employees to allow crap wages and crap conditions.

This young lady isn't allowing it.

She even went as far as following the proper chain of command and procedures and got some lecherous assclown who wanted to make an issue about her personal life.

T-Mobile should have apologized, fired everyone involved, the original rage boi, the spineless manager and the HR clown and put her back in her original position. That is how you keep good employees and that is how you keep the 'scary' unions away.

/ a real apology, from someone up the food chain
// and perhaps an opportunity for promotion for the other employee who stepped in and herself
/// and remove all mention of the incident from her HR file.
 
6 days ago  

Mugato: There;s an HR worker who is really good at his job?


My sister, but then we live in a country that has really strong labour protection laws that protects both employees and employers.

And lemme tell you, at her current workplace she faces an absolute constant struggle trying to get the american owners to understand that, yes, they have to obey by the same laws in this country.
 
6 days ago  

American-Irish eyes: discoballer: American-Irish eyes: BadReligion: American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.

So what should 40 hours a week of work get you?

Whatever the employee and employer agree upon.

That should be a living wage.

That isn't what they agreed upon, that is what you as a third party observer believe.


Oh hey look, a troll who never got over discovering Ayn Rand at college while mommy and daddy paid for his bootstraps.
 
6 days ago  

American-Irish eyes: What's the problem?  It has raised more people out of poverty than any other economic theory


Our nation being pretty much the only highly industrialized one to not be bombed and rebuilt in the last 150 years, coupled with economic booms coinciding with our nation going to war and building everyone else's stuff, can put a lot of air in the balloon.
 
6 days ago  
Also... I noticed nobody has answered the important question about her OnlyFans account.
 
6 days ago  

Mugato: There;s an HR worker who is really good at his job?


There used to be, but he fired himself.
 
6 days ago  

discoballer: American-Irish eyes: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: American-Irish eyes: BadReligion: American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.

So what should 40 hours a week of work get you?

Whatever the employee and employer agree upon.

Who has the power in that relationship?

You're a disingenuous fool if you want to claim that both sides have equal power in that situation or that anything even approximating a negotiation is taking place.

But no, we get it. You're a 'fark you, I got mine' capitalist who has never struggled a day in his life and thinks that poor people need to be severely punished for choosing to be poor so that they will decide NOT to be poor.

You are right the employer in this case has more power.  The way to change this is to have more marketable skills and to apply them to a different more difficult job.  Do you think Bill Gates would make considerable more wages than you or I if we all worked at a cellphone store selling phones?

The question is how much the company profits from those phone sales, and how much the employee comparatively receives for facilitating it. If they can't pay a fair wage, they need a different business model.


That isn't the question.  The entire risk of the enterprise is on the companies side.  They are paying wages that are agreed upon by both parties, that is fair.
 
6 days ago  

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: American-Irish eyes:

You are right the employer in this case has more power.  The way to change this is to have more marketable skills and to apply them to a different more difficult job.  Do you think Bill Gates would make considerable more wages than you or I if we all worked at a cellphone store selling phones?

So do you think the 26 million people who work in the retail and restaurant fields don't deserve to make a living wage because those are just starter or low level jobs not meant to be ones people can make a living at?  So all the clerks at your grocery stores, cell phone stores, clothing stores, all the servers and cooks at the restaurants you eat at... NONE of them deserve a living wage?

It might come as a shock to you, but we need people to do those jobs. Not everyone has the opportunity to learn more and get a better, higher paying job; and not everyone is capable of doing so. Your philosophy condemns them all to poverty, because you refuse any solution other than "your problem, not mine, do better!"


We do need people to do those jobs.  They eventually need to move on to other parts of the economy as those jobs are entry level jobs.  Outside of a few narrow examples such as working at higher end establishments.
 
6 days ago  

American-Irish eyes: discoballer: American-Irish eyes: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: American-Irish eyes: BadReligion: American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.

So what should 40 hours a week of work get you?

Whatever the employee and employer agree upon.

Who has the power in that relationship?

You're a disingenuous fool if you want to claim that both sides have equal power in that situation or that anything even approximating a negotiation is taking place.

But no, we get it. You're a 'fark you, I got mine' capitalist who has never struggled a day in his life and thinks that poor people need to be severely punished for choosing to be poor so that they will decide NOT to be poor.

You are right the employer in this case has more power.  The way to change this is to have more marketable skills and to apply them to a different more difficult job.  Do you think Bill Gates would make considerable more wages than you or I if we all worked at a cellphone store selling phones?

The question is how much the company profits from those phone sales, and how much the employee comparatively receives for facilitating it. If they can't pay a fair wage, they need a different business model.

That isn't the question.  The entire risk of the enterprise is on the companies side.  They are paying wages that are agreed upon by both parties, that is fair.


I understand that you don't think that's the question.
 
6 days ago  

American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.


Fantastic son, so we'll just put you down as "having the manners and moral of a gilded age plutocrat"   for the rest of us the Turn of the Century progressive movement stood for a 40/hr work week, and 8 hour work day and a living wage.   Any time you let an emplier pass less than a living wage, no matter How s"skilled" or "unskilled" that job is  what you are really saying is "I think this poor business has enough problems and I would like to use mY money to subsidize their labor costs"   because that's exactly what food stamps, Sec housing, Medicaid, etc is.   A way for taxpayers to subsidize big business so they can get away with paying a wage so low that a person can't provide for basic necessities with it.
 
6 days ago  

American-Irish eyes: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: American-Irish eyes:

You are right the employer in this case has more power.  The way to change this is to have more marketable skills and to apply them to a different more difficult job.  Do you think Bill Gates would make considerable more wages than you or I if we all worked at a cellphone store selling phones?

So do you think the 26 million people who work in the retail and restaurant fields don't deserve to make a living wage because those are just starter or low level jobs not meant to be ones people can make a living at?  So all the clerks at your grocery stores, cell phone stores, clothing stores, all the servers and cooks at the restaurants you eat at... NONE of them deserve a living wage?

It might come as a shock to you, but we need people to do those jobs. Not everyone has the opportunity to learn more and get a better, higher paying job; and not everyone is capable of doing so. Your philosophy condemns them all to poverty, because you refuse any solution other than "your problem, not mine, do better!"

We do need people to do those jobs.  They eventually need to move on to other parts of the economy as those jobs are entry level jobs.  Outside of a few narrow examples such as working at higher end establishments.


This sort of thinking is just.. absolutely mind-boggling.
 
6 days ago  

discoballer: American-Irish eyes: discoballer: American-Irish eyes: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: American-Irish eyes: BadReligion: American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.

So what should 40 hours a week of work get you?

Whatever the employee and employer agree upon.

Who has the power in that relationship?

You're a disingenuous fool if you want to claim that both sides have equal power in that situation or that anything even approximating a negotiation is taking place.

But no, we get it. You're a 'fark you, I got mine' capitalist who has never struggled a day in his life and thinks that poor people need to be severely punished for choosing to be poor so that they will decide NOT to be poor.

You are right the employer in this case has more power.  The way to change this is to have more marketable skills and to apply them to a different more difficult job.  Do you think Bill Gates would make considerable more wages than you or I if we all worked at a cellphone store selling phones?

The question is how much the company profits from those phone sales, and how much the employee comparatively receives for facilitating it. If they can't pay a fair wage, they need a different business model.

That isn't the question.  The entire risk of the enterprise is on the companies side.  They are paying wages that are agreed upon by both parties, that is fair.

I understand that you don't think that's the question.


They receive a wage based upon what is negotiated.  Giving every single employee a "living wage" would reduce the amount of available jobs and drive more people into poverty as it would move them into jobless.  The "Living Wage" philosophy has enormous consequences that aren't ever discussed.
 
6 days ago  

Magorn: American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.

Fantastic son, so we'll just put you down as "having the manners and moral of a gilded age plutocrat"   for the rest of us the Turn of the Century progressive movement stood for a 40/hr work week, and 8 hour work day and a living wage.   Any time you let an emplier pass less than a living wage, no matter How s"skilled" or "unskilled" that job is  what you are really saying is "I think this poor business has enough problems and I would like to use mY money to subsidize their labor costs"   because that's exactly what food stamps, Sec housing, Medicaid, etc is.   A way for taxpayers to subsidize big business so they can get away with paying a wage so low that a person can't provide for basic necessities with it.


My position can be as misrepresented as you'd like.  What you are turning this conversation in to is a discussion of tax and welfare.  When the beginning point is about a company an employee and wages.  Don't conflate the two.
 
6 days ago  

American-Irish eyes: BadReligion: American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.

So what should 40 hours a week of work get you?

Whatever the employee and employer agree upon.


Justice Peckham is that you?

You sound like one of the most derided Supreme Court Decisions of all time  Lochner v. NY come to life.   That's the one where they stuck down laws limiting the number of hours in a day a worker could be required to work because it "interfered with the worker's 14th amendment right to sell their labor on any terms the employee and employer agree on"
 
6 days ago  

American-Irish eyes: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: American-Irish eyes:

You are right the employer in this case has more power.  The way to change this is to have more marketable skills and to apply them to a different more difficult job.  Do you think Bill Gates would make considerable more wages than you or I if we all worked at a cellphone store selling phones?

So do you think the 26 million people who work in the retail and restaurant fields don't deserve to make a living wage because those are just starter or low level jobs not meant to be ones people can make a living at?  So all the clerks at your grocery stores, cell phone stores, clothing stores, all the servers and cooks at the restaurants you eat at... NONE of them deserve a living wage?

It might come as a shock to you, but we need people to do those jobs. Not everyone has the opportunity to learn more and get a better, higher paying job; and not everyone is capable of doing so. Your philosophy condemns them all to poverty, because you refuse any solution other than "your problem, not mine, do better!"

We do need people to do those jobs.  They eventually need to move on to other parts of the economy as those jobs are entry level jobs.  Outside of a few narrow examples such as working at higher end establishments.


Over 26 million jobs, over 20% of the jobs in the market of 125 million jobs. And you think they're ALL entry level jobs?  There's your problem, you're farking ignorant of the nature of the job market and what jobs are available where. You've been propagandized into believing the 'entry level jobs' bullshiat without any awareness of just how many jobs are minimum wage/entry level or adjacent under your beliefs.  How many tens of millions of Americans this idea condemns to poverty and abuse.  That's farking shameful, dude.

Back in the day, you were supposed to be able to support a family and consider it honorable to live your entire life selling shoes.

https://www.getrichslowly.org/you-and​-​your-work/
 
6 days ago  

American-Irish eyes: discoballer: American-Irish eyes: discoballer: American-Irish eyes: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: American-Irish eyes: BadReligion: American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.

So what should 40 hours a week of work get you?

Whatever the employee and employer agree upon.

Who has the power in that relationship?

You're a disingenuous fool if you want to claim that both sides have equal power in that situation or that anything even approximating a negotiation is taking place.

But no, we get it. You're a 'fark you, I got mine' capitalist who has never struggled a day in his life and thinks that poor people need to be severely punished for choosing to be poor so that they will decide NOT to be poor.

You are right the employer in this case has more power.  The way to change this is to have more marketable skills and to apply them to a different more difficult job.  Do you think Bill Gates would make considerable more wages than you or I if we all worked at a cellphone store selling phones?

The question is how much the company profits from those phone sales, and how much the employee comparatively receives for facilitating it. If they can't pay a fair wage, they need a different business model.

That isn't the question.  The entire risk of the enterprise is on the companies side.  They are paying wages that are agreed upon by both parties, that is fair.

I understand that you don't think that's the question.

They receive a wage based upon what is negotiated.  Giving every single employee a "living wage" would reduce the amount of available jobs and drive more people into poverty as it would move them into jobless.  The "Living Wage" philosophy has enormous consequences that aren't ever discussed.


These employers are negotiating with a gun: "take what we offer or starve. There are plenty of people who will work it."

Meanwhile, multi BILLION dollar companies are union busting because they think like you. You're trying to tell me there isn't enough to go around?
 
6 days ago  

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: American-Irish eyes: Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: American-Irish eyes:

You are right the employer in this case has more power.  The way to change this is to have more marketable skills and to apply them to a different more difficult job.  Do you think Bill Gates would make considerable more wages than you or I if we all worked at a cellphone store selling phones?

So do you think the 26 million people who work in the retail and restaurant fields don't deserve to make a living wage because those are just starter or low level jobs not meant to be ones people can make a living at?  So all the clerks at your grocery stores, cell phone stores, clothing stores, all the servers and cooks at the restaurants you eat at... NONE of them deserve a living wage?

It might come as a shock to you, but we need people to do those jobs. Not everyone has the opportunity to learn more and get a better, higher paying job; and not everyone is capable of doing so. Your philosophy condemns them all to poverty, because you refuse any solution other than "your problem, not mine, do better!"

We do need people to do those jobs.  They eventually need to move on to other parts of the economy as those jobs are entry level jobs.  Outside of a few narrow examples such as working at higher end establishments.

Over 26 million jobs, over 20% of the jobs in the market of 125 million jobs. And you think they're ALL entry level jobs?  There's your problem, you're farking ignorant of the nature of the job market and what jobs are available where. You've been propagandized into believing the 'entry level jobs' bullshiat without any awareness of just how many jobs are minimum wage/entry level or adjacent under your beliefs.  How many tens of millions of Americans this idea condemns to poverty and abuse.  That's farking shameful, dude.

Back in the day, you were supposed to be able to support a family and consider it honorable to live your entire life selling shoes.

https://www.getrichslowly.org/you-and-​your-work/


Let's go back and define a term, living wage.  Numerically, what is a living wage?  How is defined and how is applied, nationally?
 
6 days ago  

American-Irish eyes: Magorn: American-Irish eyes: Cafe Threads: The incidents point to how far some companies will try to go to control the lives of their workers, while also refusing to pay people enough to allow them to maintain a single stream of income.

Ayup.

Um working at a cellphone store shouldn't equal living wage.  Not every single job is skilled or difficult enough to warrant a living wage on a single stream of income.

Fantastic son, so we'll just put you down as "having the manners and moral of a gilded age plutocrat"   for the rest of us the Turn of the Century progressive movement stood for a 40/hr work week, and 8 hour work day and a living wage.   Any time you let an emplier pass less than a living wage, no matter How s"skilled" or "unskilled" that job is  what you are really saying is "I think this poor business has enough problems and I would like to use mY money to subsidize their labor costs"   because that's exactly what food stamps, Sec housing, Medicaid, etc is.   A way for taxpayers to subsidize big business so they can get away with paying a wage so low that a person can't provide for basic necessities with it.

My position can be as misrepresented as you'd like.  What you are turning this conversation in to is a discussion of tax and welfare.  When the beginning point is about a company an employee and wages.  Don't conflate the two.


they are exactly the same thing and if you don'r see that , you don;t understand economics.   Failure to pay a living wage to an employee creates an "externality" for your business, a cost required to do that business that the business is not paying for and therefore someone else will have to pick up.  Externalities distort markets and make some activities more profitable that they should be, destroying competition.  For example mines that are allowed to go bankrupt after the orevein is exhausted  and avoid the clean-up costs of their mine, Oil and Gas companies that pay rates set in 1870 for exploration rights on public land.

Similarly any employer who offers a job that doesn't allow an employee to make a living wage is letting the public pick up part of his labor costs.   As a society, we try not to let people live on the streets, starve to death of sicken and dies from lack of medical care,  if not for humanitarian reasons, then for public safety ones.   People with no thing left to lose  tend to get violent and become volatile mobs.  SO if the employers wages aren;t enough to do that, we as a society are compelled to supplement them.   It's a classic case of socializing the costs and privatizing the gains
 
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