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(Politico)   The partisan vaccine divide is more deadly than we know   (politico.com) divider line
    More: Scary, Vaccine, Vaccination, Public health, Covid-19 vaccinations, vaccine hesitancy, congressional districts, Rep. Brad Wenstrup, focus groups  
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5416 clicks; posted to Politics » on 05 Jun 2021 at 3:08 PM (11 days ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-06-05 12:20:12 PM  
Wenstrup, the Ohio Republican, said many government officials are quick to write off swaths of the population as anti-vaccine rather than doing the hard work of listening to them and responding to their questions and concerns.
"Many people felt they were being indoctrinated and pressured to do something they didn't want to do," he said. "As a doctor, I know that before you do a surgery, you have to develop a relationship with a patient and explain what you're doing and why you're doing it - though it's tough to do that on a national level."


I gotta agree with him here. This is a relatively new technology, and people have legitimate concerns. It's important to provide the information people need to counter all the fake crap on Facebook. Facebook's algorithms are going to keep feeding these folks the same misinformation about 5G and videos of people sticking magnets to their arms, and they will think that "everyone" believes this crap so it must be true. To get real information, you have to search the web and consider sources and apply rational thought. To get conspiracy theories, you just open up Facebook.

I understand the doctor's point of view - when you're going to do something like major surgery, you have to make sure the patient understands what you're doing and why, and what the effects will be. The huge amount of misinformation has resulted in people having these same kinds of concerns about a simple vaccine, but there simply aren't enough doctors and nurses out there to hold everyone's hand and explain how the vaccine works and why it's important.

Folks, the vaccine is safe and effective. Magnets won't stick to your arm. There's no computer chip inside. And you don't suddenly get Bluetooth or 5G signals. You feel bad for a day, and then you're very unlikely to get COVID, and more important, to spread it to someone you love
 
2021-06-05 1:07:28 PM  
It's simple math: vaccinated people have a much high chance of survival. Unvaccinated people do not. Democrats trust science and therefore have a high chance of survival. Republicans do not, and do not. All the hurr-durr in the world won't change that simple fact.
 
2021-06-05 1:19:01 PM  

Man On A Mission: It's simple math: vaccinated people have a much high chance of survival. Unvaccinated people do not. Democrats trust science and therefore have a high chance of survival. Republicans do not, and do not. All the hurr-durr in the world won't change that simple fact.


Well, you also have tons of people saying incorrect information like "99.4% survival rate!" when A. That's not correct, and B. "Survival rate" also includes those who suffer long- term effects indefinitely.

I mean, even if you believe with all your heart, no convincing you otherwise, that the "99.4% survival rate" is true because you saw it on Facebook and those doctors don't know what the hell they are doing, then you're basically playing Russian roulette with a revolver with 167 chambers. And that's far better odds than these same people get for their lottery tickets they buy every week.
 
2021-06-05 1:39:54 PM  
...and stuff like this makes me depressed because it shows how divided this country is.
 
2021-06-05 1:45:35 PM  
Fade in. October 2021. A hospital room. White walls that have faded to a light yellow over time. A heart monitor beeps in the background.

In the bed lies a skeptic who opted not to get the vaccine because it was made so Bill Gates could track you... because doing so would infringe on his freedom... because Joe Biden told him too... because COVID is overblown... because they are overcounting the deaths from the disease... because those doctors think they're so smart, but they're not smarter than him. He, after all, reads Newsmax every day. He's informed.

A tube is shoved down his throat, moving his chest up and down. His lungs have shut down, and now his kidneys and liver are doing the same. It's a matter of time at this point. His kids have come to the hospital from his ex-wife's house to visit their daddy, and even though they've been vaccinated, they're not allowed in his room.

He manages to open his eyes to look through the glass to the next room, where his kids are. As he does so, his heart rate dips lower. Lower. His vision is starting to fade, blackness moving in from the periphery.

As he holds desperately onto his last moments of consciousness, he has a thought. A thought so clear, he believes it with all his failing heart. He approaches the long black and dives into it, all the way thinking....

Fake news.
 
2021-06-05 2:28:03 PM  
And it all started here

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-06-05 3:03:41 PM  
I'm done thinking about these people. I had to do that for four full farking years and we all deserve a break. I'm fine taking the risk of a second pandemic while we make another vaccine, because people might die, but these farkers will not stop until we're all dead anyway... at least at this rate.

Besides, I got a lot of shiat done, we all got rid of a self-revealing tyrant and his brood (for now), and we all flipped the finger to evil businessmen and real estate barons as a whole--at least for a while. A second pandemic could probably make what was temporary far more permanent at this point, so once more: let them die, fark this shiat.
 
2021-06-05 3:10:18 PM  
fark them.
 
2021-06-05 3:12:14 PM  
I'm happy we've reached a point in this saga where I don't have to feel bad about people in the US dying anymore.  You killed yourself.  Hope you're not Catholic, because it's suicide now.
 
2021-06-05 3:12:22 PM  
Focus on outreach to those who are financially disadvantaged and the younger crowd who don't see a need for preventative measures.

Give up on the folks who are convinced that the vaccine will give them 5G-induced superautistic evil clairvoyance.
 
2021-06-05 3:13:36 PM  
media1.tenor.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-05 3:13:55 PM  
Not Scary at all, Subby.

If the MAGAts refuse the vax, then they'll die off a lot by the 22 and 24 elections.

Fark user imageView Full Size

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-06-05 3:14:53 PM  
The partisan divide in vaccinations is starker than you realize

No, I realized it. All along it's been Republicans on one side and sane people on the other.
 
2021-06-05 3:15:19 PM  
This is why I said getting someone like Arnold Schwarzenegger as a spokesperson out there would be very helpful.

To politicize it less.
 
2021-06-05 3:15:49 PM  

ox45tallboy: Wenstrup, the Ohio Republican, said many government officials are quick to write off swaths of the population as anti-vaccine rather than doing the hard work of listening to them and responding to their questions and concerns.
"Many people felt they were being indoctrinated and pressured to do something they didn't want to do," he said. "As a doctor, I know that before you do a surgery, you have to develop a relationship with a patient and explain what you're doing and why you're doing it - though it's tough to do that on a national level."

I gotta agree with him here. This is a relatively new technology, and people have legitimate concerns. It's important to provide the information people need to counter all the fake crap on Facebook. Facebook's algorithms are going to keep feeding these folks the same misinformation about 5G and videos of people sticking magnets to their arms, and they will think that "everyone" believes this crap so it must be true. To get real information, you have to search the web and consider sources and apply rational thought. To get conspiracy theories, you just open up Facebook.

I understand the doctor's point of view - when you're going to do something like major surgery, you have to make sure the patient understands what you're doing and why, and what the effects will be. The huge amount of misinformation has resulted in people having these same kinds of concerns about a simple vaccine, but there simply aren't enough doctors and nurses out there to hold everyone's hand and explain how the vaccine works and why it's important.

Folks, the vaccine is safe and effective. Magnets won't stick to your arm. There's no computer chip inside. And you don't suddenly get Bluetooth or 5G signals. You feel bad for a day, and then you're very unlikely to get COVID, and more important, to spread it to someone you love


No, it's not really new technology in the technology newness sense of new - the concept has been studied-up for 20 years.

And put me down as one who will have no sympathy for anyone who dies from covid who refused the shot the exception being the under-18 sorts who couldn't get parental permission.
 
2021-06-05 3:16:18 PM  

AAAAGGGGHHHH: Not Scary at all, Subby.

If the MAGAts refuse the vax, then they'll die off a lot by the 22 and 24 elections.

[Fark user image 379x214]
[Fark user image 465x267]


My problem with it is they'll spread the disease to people who matter.
 
2021-06-05 3:16:37 PM  
Dart guns with vaccine ammunition....
 
2021-06-05 3:16:43 PM  

Corvus: This is why I said getting someone like Arnold Schwarzenegger as a spokesperson out there would be very helpful.

To politicize it less.


The people who aren't getting vaccines to own the libs hate Schwarzenegger.
 
2021-06-05 3:16:51 PM  
If only the only people they hurt were themselves... that'd be a fairer and nicer world.
 
2021-06-05 3:16:53 PM  

Godscrack: And it all started here

[Fark user image image 551x377]


Bleach and or light up the poop shoot, and high dose hydroxychloroquine.
When he gets covid it's an entirely different treatment of course.
We still have GQP officials downplaying covid-19, MTG recently said CrossFit will grant her immunity.
 
2021-06-05 3:17:03 PM  
Fact: All Republicans are farking stupid and are their own worst enemy.
 
2021-06-05 3:17:23 PM  

wildsnowllama: fark them.


the problem is that these people are our friends and family. Good people that we care deeply about. People who have been lied to, and those lies reinforced by social media algorithms that don't care about the truth. They don't deserve to die because of that, and the majority of Americans don't deserve another pandemic from the mutations that *will* happen if this virus keeps spreading.
 
2021-06-05 3:17:28 PM  
All it would take is the guy who already got the vaccine to do a campaign about taking it. He could easily save face with his dumbass base by saying something like how he and his doctors (who are the best doctors) poured over the data, made some recommendations on things to change, and the vaccine companies listened so they're completely safe now.  They'd believe it and we would get to 80% no issue.
 
2021-06-05 3:17:54 PM  
Yeah, no kidding. It's literally a life or death issue, and conservatives see liberals on the side of life, so they favor death.
 
2021-06-05 3:19:57 PM  

kdawg7736: ...and stuff like this makes me depressed because it shows how divided this country is.


If it will make you feel any better I recommend the book "How the South Won the Civil War" by Heather Cox-Richardson.  At the very least you will realize this division thing isn't new, it's an American (well, US) tradition.
 
2021-06-05 3:20:53 PM  
I know it will never happen, but it would be a fun social experiment if the entire country agreed to stop treating people with COVID by Oct 1st.  Get the vaccine by then or you are on your own.

/Exceptions for kids/people who can't get the vaccine for physical reasons.
//No exceptions for religious beliefs.
 
2021-06-05 3:21:37 PM  
I got my second shot today and am celebrating with 1364 Meadery from Ipswich, MA. Woohoo! Hoping the hangover settlers before the symptoms kick in.
 
2021-06-05 3:23:11 PM  

Kubo: Fade in. October 2021. A hospital room. White walls that have faded to a light yellow over time. A heart monitor beeps in the background.

In the bed lies a skeptic who opted not to get the vaccine because it was made so Bill Gates could track you... because doing so would infringe on his freedom... because Joe Biden told him too... because COVID is overblown... because they are overcounting the deaths from the disease... because those doctors think they're so smart, but they're not smarter than him. He, after all, reads Newsmax every day. He's informed.

A tube is shoved down his throat, moving his chest up and down. His lungs have shut down, and now his kidneys and liver are doing the same. It's a matter of time at this point. His kids have come to the hospital from his ex-wife's house to visit their daddy, and even though they've been vaccinated, they're not allowed in his room.

He manages to open his eyes to look through the glass to the next room, where his kids are. As he does so, his heart rate dips lower. Lower. His vision is starting to fade, blackness moving in from the periphery.

As he holds desperately onto his last moments of consciousness, he has a thought. A thought so clear, he believes it with all his failing heart. He approaches the long black and dives into it, all the way thinking....

Fake news.


But I DID get vaccinated!
 
2021-06-05 3:23:32 PM  

Porkbelly: ox45tallboy: Wenstrup, the Ohio Republican, said many government officials are quick to write off swaths of the population as anti-vaccine rather than doing the hard work of listening to them and responding to their questions and concerns.
"Many people felt they were being indoctrinated and pressured to do something they didn't want to do," he said. "As a doctor, I know that before you do a surgery, you have to develop a relationship with a patient and explain what you're doing and why you're doing it - though it's tough to do that on a national level."

I gotta agree with him here. This is a relatively new technology, and people have legitimate concerns. It's important to provide the information people need to counter all the fake crap on Facebook. Facebook's algorithms are going to keep feeding these folks the same misinformation about 5G and videos of people sticking magnets to their arms, and they will think that "everyone" believes this crap so it must be true. To get real information, you have to search the web and consider sources and apply rational thought. To get conspiracy theories, you just open up Facebook.

I understand the doctor's point of view - when you're going to do something like major surgery, you have to make sure the patient understands what you're doing and why, and what the effects will be. The huge amount of misinformation has resulted in people having these same kinds of concerns about a simple vaccine, but there simply aren't enough doctors and nurses out there to hold everyone's hand and explain how the vaccine works and why it's important.

Folks, the vaccine is safe and effective. Magnets won't stick to your arm. There's no computer chip inside. And you don't suddenly get Bluetooth or 5G signals. You feel bad for a day, and then you're very unlikely to get COVID, and more important, to spread it to someone you love

No, it's not really new technology in the technology newness sense of new - the concept has been studied-up for 20 years. ...


I would argue that mRNA vaccine technology is brand new, as far as the public is concerned. 99% of people had probably never even heard of mRNA 18 months ago.
 
2021-06-05 3:24:50 PM  
thumbs-prod.si-cdn.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-05 3:24:56 PM  
I'm fine with people who don't want to get vaccinated not getting vaccinated. Let them die off. Those however they impact who do want to get vaccinated but can't because of their stupid childish tantrums I feel really bad for. Really at this point we should shove those who don't want to get vaccinated but can out of the way on their backsides so that those who aren't vaccinated and want to can much easier without the arseholes blocking their access.
 
2021-06-05 3:25:30 PM  

Super Chronic: AAAAGGGGHHHH: Not Scary at all, Subby.

If the MAGAts refuse the vax, then they'll die off a lot by the 22 and 24 elections.

[Fark user image 379x214]
[Fark user image 465x267]

My problem with it is they'll spread the disease to people who matter.


My guess is that those "people who matter" will also be vaxed.
 
2021-06-05 3:25:35 PM  

shinji3i: All it would take is the guy who already got the vaccine to do a campaign about taking it. He could easily save face with his dumbass base by saying something like how he and his doctors (who are the best doctors) poured over the data, made some recommendations on things to change, and the vaccine companies listened so they're completely safe now.  They'd believe it and we would get to 80% no issue.


My doctors, they couldn't believe how much I understood about the data. The data was so good. Big, beautiful data. And it was totally great. They said "SIR!! How do you know so much about epidemogy data? We've never seen someone who has such great ideas about improving vaccines!" And we did it, the data. And we made the vaccine safe for you. Wear your maga hat and ask for the "Trumpcine" so they know you didn't fall for the hoax. It'll be tremendous.
 
2021-06-05 3:25:55 PM  
The quick response in the vaccine development will be instrumental for future outbreaks. It won't be Covid-19 that rids is of these numbskulls but maybe the next pandemic as they all chant "freedumb!" Or, it just might be the next flu season that will take it's toll on these idiots. They'll even refuse that vaccine out of ignorance and indignation.
 
2021-06-05 3:26:28 PM  

Porkbelly: No, it's not really new technology in the technology newness sense of new - the concept has been studied-up for 20 years.

And put me down as one who will have no sympathy for anyone who dies from covid who refused the shot the exception being the under-18 sorts who couldn't get parental permission.


It *is* new in the sense that this is the first time this technology hadmade it all the way to mass production.

I agree that the technology has been around for a while and scientists understand it and how to utilize it. But I didn't understand it until I did a lot of reading about it. I can easily see how someone stuck on MAGA Facebook would be inundated with tons of false information, from stuff made to look like scientific journals to folks with "Dr." In front of their name to stupid videos with magnets stuck to an arm from people they've followed for years. With this much false information out there, it gets to the point that even otherwise rational people say "I don't know who to believe! I've lived with the risk for over a year, I can live with it for longer, and so-and-so had COVID and she lived, and I'm in better shape than she is, so I'm not 'taking the risk' of getting this new vaccine."

It's damn near impossible to counter that "argument". Where does one even begin?
 
2021-06-05 3:30:36 PM  

Man On A Mission: It's simple math: vaccinated people have a much high chance of survival. Unvaccinated people do not. Democrats trust science and therefore have a high chance of survival. Republicans do not, and do not. All the hurr-durr in the world won't change that simple fact.


Smart folks teach their kids about birf control. Derpers teach abstinence only. Covid doesn't kill nearly enough people to offset the higher birf rates of stupid GQP trash.

In fairness to the religious right, they did predict doom when birf control was introduced. Turns out they were right but not for the reasons they thought.
 
2021-06-05 3:30:57 PM  
I have an adult nephew who's refusing to get the vaccine. (Actually my wife's nephew; not related to me by blood.) His wife had the vaccine while pregnant, she later miscarried, and he's blaming the vaccine. It's all kinds of stupid. (1) There's no proof the vaccine had anything to do with the miscarriage, especially considering she has miscarried once before (and this was a first-term loss, which is commonplace). (2) Even if the vaccine did cause it... well, there are all kinds of medicines that pregnant women shouldn't take that the rest of us can take. (3) He talks about it emotionally, like the vaccine bears moral responsibility for his loss. The guy is just being a knucklehead. And it's developing into a bit of a family rift.

I'm reading all these articles that say "don't tell them they're stupid, don't minimize their concerns," etc., but I really want to tell the guy "stop being a moron, get the farking vaccine and then you can enter my home."
 
2021-06-05 3:31:33 PM  

ox45tallboy: I can easily see how someone stuck on MAGA Facebook would be inundated with tons of false information, from stuff made to look like scientific journals to folks with "Dr." In front of their name to stupid videos with magnets stuck to an arm from people they've followed for years. With this much false information out there, it gets to the point that even otherwise rational people say "I don't know who to believe! I've lived with the risk for over a year, I can live with it for longer, and so-and-so had COVID and she lived, and I'm in better shape than she is, so I'm not 'taking the risk' of getting this new vaccine."


Anyone who consumes that much obviously-false information, anyone who gets their news from Facebook posts or YouTube videos, is not an "otherwise rational" person.

There's no need to sugarcoat it. The "vaccine hesitancy" crowd are idiots who have never posessed the capacity for critical thought.
 
2021-06-05 3:31:59 PM  
I wondered what democratic districts they mention are among the worst for vacc. rates... apparently MO-5 is one of them? and maybe literally the worst?
 
2021-06-05 3:32:20 PM  
The data underscore how vaccinating the holdouts has become the latest political fault line incredibly ignorant MAGAts are.
 
2021-06-05 3:32:51 PM  

AAAAGGGGHHHH: Super Chronic: AAAAGGGGHHHH: Not Scary at all, Subby.

If the MAGAts refuse the vax, then they'll die off a lot by the 22 and 24 elections.

[Fark user image 379x214]
[Fark user image 465x267]

My problem with it is they'll spread the disease to people who matter.

My guess is that those "people who matter" will also be vaxed.


Well, there are some who can't get it -- notably children, and also some with immune deficiency or perhaps certain allergies. And of course the vaccine not 100% effective in those who do have it (although I understand it's pretty much 100% effective in preventing death and hospitalization-level sickness).
 
2021-06-05 3:33:12 PM  
If you want to appeal to Americans you need to run ads explaining how expensive it's going to be if you land in the hospital with covid.
 
2021-06-05 3:33:55 PM  

Super Chronic: I have an adult nephew who's refusing to get the vaccine. (Actually my wife's nephew; not related to me by blood.) His wife had the vaccine while pregnant, she later miscarried, and he's blaming the vaccine. It's all kinds of stupid. (1) There's no proof the vaccine had anything to do with the miscarriage, especially considering she has miscarried once before (and this was a first-term loss, which is commonplace). (2) Even if the vaccine did cause it... well, there are all kinds of medicines that pregnant women shouldn't take that the rest of us can take. (3) He talks about it emotionally, like the vaccine bears moral responsibility for his loss. The guy is just being a knucklehead. And it's developing into a bit of a family rift.

I'm reading all these articles that say "don't tell them they're stupid, don't minimize their concerns," etc., but I really want to tell the guy "stop being a moron, get the farking vaccine and then you can enter my home."


first-trimester, I mean.
 
2021-06-05 3:35:28 PM  

Masakyst: Yeah, no kidding. It's literally a life or death issue, and conservatives see liberals on the side of life, so they favor death.


They always favor death, they're spiteful little assholes.
 
2021-06-05 3:37:06 PM  
Our 13 year old got her second yesterday.

All 5 of us are now fully vaccinated.

If you aren't getting it because it's a hoax or Tucker told you not to or your MyPillow will protect you or whatever, then fark you.

I'm done trying to care. I tried. I really did, but you just won't listen and it's impossible to break through willful ignorance. I wish you the best, but you're on your own.
 
2021-06-05 3:37:13 PM  
Oh, well. Once we are vaccinated, we Canadians can always come down from the North like an army of White Walkers and fill in the empty country between the Blue Cities and Counties. You can fill in Texas and parts South with Mexicans and various Central Americans.

As I always say, Evolution never sleeps.
 
2021-06-05 3:37:30 PM  
Unfortunately, the people around here most likely to be anti-vaccine are in two categories.  It's not race, it's not economic.  It's active US military members.  And it's law enforcement and corrections officers.

Both groups live in a toxic brew of isolated, machismo, and intentional disinformation.
 
2021-06-05 3:38:05 PM  

ox45tallboy: They don't deserve to die because of that


Unfortunately, it's a consequence of their own actions and beliefs.  They want to believe the lies because it makes them feel better for whatever damn reason.  You cannot use logic and reason to convince them otherwise because they didn't use logic and reason to come to the position they currently hold.  It's sad to watch and scary to know that they'll take many people out with them, but they will likely suffer serious consequences for their sincerely held beliefs because they're choosing to reject science and facts.

This whole thing is a culmination of many different factors: lack of schooling (in general and in logical/scientific methods), demonization of anyone and anything that doesn't believe as you do, and a general embracement of stigginit.
 
2021-06-05 3:38:53 PM  

Corvus: This is why I said getting someone like Arnold Schwarzenegger as a spokesperson out there would be very helpful.

To politicize it less.


Why bother? He already came out about the election and was labeled a closet liberal, a RINO. Even bunkie has come out and said get the shots and they excused that as he was forced to say it by his people.

If they don't see the light by now they never will until that light is death calling them home.
 
2021-06-05 3:39:07 PM  
Seriously if you know people who are hesitant or refusing to do it for whatever reason work with them and rationalize why it's essential for not just them but for society as a whole. So many are in a cloud of misinformation they think it's a trick or something. Help these lost souls get it done
 
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