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(Guardian)   A new Greek lexicon is being published, so we're no longer constrained by the prudish Victorians who originally translates χέζω, βινέω, and also λαικάζω. Ancient Greek will be more accessible to the masses   (theguardian.com) divider line
    More: Giggity, Greek language, Henry Liddell, A Greek-English Lexicon, Intermediate Greek-English Lexicon, Robert Scott, meanings of crude ancient Greek words, Cambridge professor James Diggle, Greek alphabet  
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671 clicks; posted to STEM » on 31 May 2021 at 12:45 PM (3 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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View Voting Results: Smartest and Funniest
 
2021-05-31 12:53:59 PM  
So Mary goes back to being a young girl instead of a virgin?
Good.
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2021-05-31 12:54:27 PM  
Example of Liddell and Scott beating around the bush: "πεώδης: with a large πέος".
 
2021-05-31 1:01:44 PM  
I got nothin'

Melina Mercouri - Ta Paidia Tou Piraia (Never On Sunday)
Youtube 28EAWlOXrYs
 
2021-05-31 1:06:55 PM  
Subby, on FARK you have to say χέiaζω
 
2021-05-31 1:22:06 PM  
Will it help Yanis toast that kaiser faster?
 
2021-05-31 1:30:07 PM  
Οι Έλληνες είναι μόνο νότιοι Μακεδόνες
 
2021-05-31 2:08:29 PM  
> Antiquated and offensive language also gets a makeover. While Liddell and Scott defined βλαύτη (blaute) as "a kind of slipper worn by fops", in the Cambridge Greek Lexicon it is described as "a kind of simple footwear, slipper"; κροκωτός (krokotos) is no longer defined as "a saffron-coloured robe worn by gay women", but as a "saffron gown (worn by women)".

They may be going too PC by removing associations with these words that the reader understood. Sure the word "gay" has changed since then - at the time of writing it probably connoted "not staid - light hearted and fun loving"

If you want to go full PC why not just define "κροκωτός" as "a saffron-coloured robe" because men could wear them too.

here is one old definition I found
https://lsj.gr/wiki/%CE%BA%CF%81%CE%B​F​%CE%BA%CF%89%CF%84%CF%8C%CF%82
English (LSJ)

A saffron-dyed, saffron-coloured, Pi.N.1.38.

2 as Subst., κροκωτός (sc. χιτών), ὁ, saffron-coloured robe, worn by gay women, Ar.Th.138, Ec.879; as an offering in temples, IG12.386.22, 22.1514.60, 62; worn by Dionysus (or at his festivals) over the χιτών, Cratin.38, Ar.Ra.46; by effeminate men, παρθένος δ' εἶναι δοκεῖ φορῶν κροκωτούς (prob. for κρος-) Arar.4, cf. Callix.2, Duris 12 J., etc.: neut. pl. κροκωτά (sc. ἱμάτια) v.l. in Ar. Lys.44.


This seems to say that Dionysus and effeminate men also wore them and that they are associated with Bacchanalia with their drunken orgies which I guess is  in keeping with the old  "fun loving" meaning of "gay".

I get the feeling that "gay women" was itself an euphemism for this type of women who liked to party hard.
 
2021-05-31 2:09:24 PM  
Harry Enfield - The Conjugal Rights Guide
Youtube 5Ivsb79-h90
 
ZAZ [TotalFark]
2021-05-31 2:11:36 PM  

HairBolus: I get the feeling that "gay women" was itself an euphemism for this type of women who liked to party hard.


She was definitely asking for it -- just look at the color of her dress.
 
2021-05-31 2:54:22 PM  

ZAZ: HairBolus: I get the feeling that "gay women" was itself an euphemism for this type of women who liked to party hard.

She was definitely asking for it -- just look at the color of her dress.


I get the feeling that that saffron color was a signifier for a paid religious prostitute - both male and female, and when the definition I cited spoke of it being worn by effeminate men they weren't just wearing it because they thought it made them look pretty.
 
2021-05-31 4:25:04 PM  

HairBolus: They may be going too PC by removing associations with these words that the reader understood


Absolutely.  They're damaging understanding, they're altering the historical record for those who don't know how to find older sources.

However, as you noted, it is appropriate to alter the language to use either 'effeminate' or 'happy' to replace 'gay'.  The point is to translate the meaning, not to alter the text to match your worldview.
 
2021-05-31 4:49:23 PM  

AuralArgument: Οι Έλληνες είναι μόνο νότιοι Μακεδόνες



Them's fightin' words, pilgrim!
 
2021-05-31 5:17:49 PM  

cretinbob: So Mary goes back to being a young girl instead of a virgin?


No. It seems pretty clear to me that παρθένος means "virgin". And in Luke 1:34, Mary, a παρθένος, expresses her perplexity at becoming pregnant "since I have not known a man". So even if the Greek term is disputed, what she said (at least according to the text) is clear.

What is much less clear is that the Hebrew word in the Old Testament book of Isaiah chapter 7 verse 14 ("Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel"), a verse quoted in the NT as evidence of prophecy of the virgin birth, means "virgin" and not "young woman".

Make of the Bible and how the OT is reinterpreted by NT authors what you like, but don't be ignorant about it.
 
2021-05-31 5:28:20 PM  

Eutychus: Luke 1:34


Often translated as "How can this be, since I'm not even married?"  Since she gets pregnant in Joseph's care... that prophecy seems a bit early to be tagging as proof of virginity.

"You're going to give birth to the savior" "I'm not even married!"  "Yeah, but that won't last".
 
2021-05-31 5:46:08 PM  
Η απάντηση είναι πάντα πρωκτικό
 
2021-05-31 5:56:56 PM  

Eutychus: cretinbob: So Mary goes back to being a young girl instead of a virgin?

No. It seems pretty clear to me that παρθένος means "virgin". And in Luke 1:34, Mary, a παρθένος, expresses her perplexity at becoming pregnant "since I have not known a man". So even if the Greek term is disputed, what she said (at least according to the text) is clear.

What is much less clear is that the Hebrew word in the Old Testament book of Isaiah chapter 7 verse 14 ("Behold, a young woman shall conceive and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel"), a verse quoted in the NT as evidence of prophecy of the virgin birth, means "virgin" and not "young woman".

Make of the Bible and how the OT is reinterpreted by NT authors what you like, but don't be ignorant about it.


Dang, had everything thing but the language right.
Boy, you sure told me.
 
2021-05-31 6:22:08 PM  
Finally, Achilles and Patroclus are not going to be called cousins anymore.
 
2021-05-31 7:03:38 PM  
So... How long before an unexpurgated Latin-English dictionary is available?

/Catullus shouldn't be obscure for fark
 
2021-05-31 9:29:21 PM  

calufrax: So... How long before an unexpurgated Latin-English dictionary is available?

/Catullus shouldn't be obscure for fark


ROMANES EVNT DOMVM!
 
2021-05-31 9:44:50 PM  
So, funny related thing: the Facetiae of Poggio Bracciolini represents the first joke book published, at least in Europe, dating to the early 1400s. The TL;DR version is there were three popes, the Council of Constance was the big event where the church decided which one was going to be the "real" one (and also deal with that Jan Hus problem, violently), and Poggio was a young papal secretary who was bored out of his mind in the small town nonsense of rural Germany, and wrote a joke book that collected a mix of "my coworkers suck", "rednecks are dumb as hell", and "women are farkin' all the time" humor.

The related thing is that the one English translation I've been able to find dates to the 1920s. They did their best, though the whole "humor doesn't translate" is a bit of an issue, but a lot of these jokes are blue as hell. The translators' solution was to just not translate the dirty bits. So one joke is basically: wife lets her husband do it up the butt, husband is stupid as hell and thinks she's got two vaginas, and that's too much wealth for their modest family, so since the local priest is hot, she suggests, "Hey, maybe we can donate my poop chute to the church", so they do, and then when all three of them are in bed together, the husband is like, "Hey, priest, don't touch anything that's mine," and the priest replies, "I'm only interested in what the church is entitled to."

Except that's all inference (for me, who doesn't speak Latin) because they didn't translate any of the naughty bits. So you have to do a lot of interpreting (with folks who do  know Latin, but surprise, even if you know Latin, you don't usually learn "anal sex") to actually reconstruct the joke.

Also, like 60% of the jokes are "women want sex too much," which highlights how our perspectives have changed since the 15th century.
 
2021-05-31 10:09:08 PM  

Flowery Twats: calufrax: So... How long before an unexpurgated Latin-English dictionary is available?

/Catullus shouldn't be obscure for fark

ROMANES EVNT DOMVM!


Pedocabo ego vos et irrumabo...
 
2021-06-01 12:20:23 AM  
Let me know when they find some statues of Gabrielle and Callisto .
 
2021-06-01 6:06:47 AM  
As a side note, Liddell of Liddell and Scott was the father of Alice Liddell, the model for Alice in Wonderland.
 
2021-06-01 7:05:51 AM  
external-content.duckduckgo.comView Full Size
 
2021-06-01 7:36:33 AM  
Diagonal:

Yup.
 
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