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(Reason Magazine)   Washington state cops clearly know how to spot drug-laden cars as police dog detects drugs at 100% of traffic stops   (reason.com) divider line
    More: Unlikely, Detection dog, Police dog, police dog, Dog, drug detection dog, Loren Culp, Wendy Farris, police search  
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5596 clicks; posted to Main » and Politics » on 16 May 2021 at 4:50 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-05-16 2:31:19 PM  
Pigs, two different ones.
 
2021-05-16 2:32:47 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size


Duh, they train them to falsely alert........
 
2021-05-16 2:37:36 PM  
The dogs are just doing what the handler tells them to do and has nothing to do with anything else. Police have stolen over $68 billion from people never convicted of any crime using similar methods
 
2021-05-16 2:44:52 PM  
Top Secret! (9/9) Movie CLIP - Nick The Ambassador (1984) HD
Youtube ySEkuf94my4


Washington state cops in action.
 
2021-05-16 2:46:34 PM  
"Clever Hans, if the cops stop 2 cars in the morning and 2 at night, how many cars will they seize?"

Clop, clop, clop, clop

exploringyourmind.comView Full Size
 
2021-05-16 4:20:56 PM  
One day an enlightened generation will look back and literally laugh at our use of dogs to find and arrest drug users when actual treatment and a psychologist is sufficient.
 
2021-05-16 4:26:51 PM  
More shocking is a Reason article didn't end with "THis wHAT AOC WaNtS!!"
 
2021-05-16 4:53:48 PM  
Police dogs should not be used to detect drugs
 
2021-05-16 4:55:10 PM  

soupafi: Police dogs should not be used to detect drugs


Well thank God they don't use police cats.
 
2021-05-16 4:55:23 PM  
My dad told me the story of smuggling pot from Mexico into southern California in the 60s. When they introduced dogs at the checkpoints, it made it a lot harder.

So the story goes that they took some weed and made 'tea' out of it by boiling and straining it. They then gave spray bottles full of this bong water to the street urchins who would spray cars and wipe the windows for money while they waited for inspection and exit.

This of course made the dogs lose their minds over every single car for hours, until they all had to be retired for the day. At which point it was smooth sailing.

I will not vouch for the veracity of the story, but I always liked it.
 
2021-05-16 4:59:42 PM  
Even furries are shying away from police dogs. Last I checked, Midwest Furfest has banned cop characters lol.
 
2021-05-16 5:00:27 PM  
What to do with a barking dog solved.  What to do with a drunken sailor still a work in progress.
 
2021-05-16 5:01:43 PM  
It's as if there really isn't enough actual crime out there to keep all these cops busy.
 
2021-05-16 5:03:09 PM  
The bigger problem is that instead of fixing these issues, nearly half the population will focus directly on what happened to Hunter Bidens laptop.
 
2021-05-16 5:03:45 PM  
Any of our resident officers want to chime in?
 
2021-05-16 5:05:20 PM  

PirateKing: My dad told me the story of smuggling pot from Mexico into southern California in the 60s. When they introduced dogs at the checkpoints, it made it a lot harder.

So the story goes that they took some weed and made 'tea' out of it by boiling and straining it. They then gave spray bottles full of this bong water to the street urchins who would spray cars and wipe the windows for money while they waited for inspection and exit.

This of course made the dogs lose their minds over every single car for hours, until they all had to be retired for the day. At which point it was smooth sailing.

I will not vouch for the veracity of the story, but I always liked it.


That's right! I bought a lid of catnip just the other day. That cat would definitely alert on it...
 
2021-05-16 5:05:20 PM  
Ah, Republic, WA, the town in the county with the highest percentage of COVID-19 cases thanks to the F.O.E. super-spreader event, where shaking down anyone passing through was a cottage industry and their police chief became a RWNJ laughing-stock.
 
2021-05-16 5:05:38 PM  
I never understood the logic behind drug dogs.  The courts decided that because they have such a high detection rate, that means they can be used to establish probable cause to search a vehicle.  For the sake of argument, let's assume a drug dog will hit 100% of the time when there are drugs in the vehicle and 0% of the time when there are not.  I know this is nowhere close to being true, it all depends upon the handler, but let's live in the world where they are infallible.  In that world, using drug dogs to establish probable cause to search a vehicle is a search in and of its self.  The dogs sniffers are so powerful that they are performing the search that police don't have enough evidence to do the search without the dogs.  They are searching the vehicle to establish probable cause to search the vehicle.  Makes no sense.
 
2021-05-16 5:05:50 PM  
Goddamn, it's true. Cops can ruin or end your life at any time. What's really sick is how much they enjoy it.
 
2021-05-16 5:08:01 PM  
Perfect. This example is going to be trotted out in court again and again and again...
 
2021-05-16 5:10:06 PM  

Russ1642: Perfect. This example is going to be trotted out in court again and again and again...


And not a damn thing will change.....
 
2021-05-16 5:10:35 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size



/The below is an example of 'cop humor'
Fark user imageView Full Size

It's funny to them when the dog gets to keep some of the loot they steal from you.
 
2021-05-16 5:10:52 PM  
You'd think that defense attorneys would have started demanding qualification scores for detection dogs from police departments.  Oh right, no such scores exist because detection dogs are rarely ever tested, if at all.

So what makes them any better than some random mutt taken from off the street?

/we all know the answer to that one
 
2021-05-16 5:11:33 PM  
OK reason.
 
2021-05-16 5:13:26 PM  
There's a SFW Oglaf for that!

external-preview.redd.itView Full Size
 
2021-05-16 5:13:26 PM  

whither_apophis: More shocking is a Reason article didn't end with "THis wHAT AOC WaNtS!!"


Is that supposed to be a bad thing or something?
 
2021-05-16 5:14:56 PM  

dark brew: I never understood the logic behind drug dogs.  The courts decided that because they have such a high detection rate, that means they can be used to establish probable cause to search a vehicle.  For the sake of argument, let's assume a drug dog will hit 100% of the time when there are drugs in the vehicle and 0% of the time when there are not.  I know this is nowhere close to being true, it all depends upon the handler, but let's live in the world where they are infallible.  In that world, using drug dogs to establish probable cause to search a vehicle is a search in and of its self.  The dogs sniffers are so powerful that they are performing the search that police don't have enough evidence to do the search without the dogs.  They are searching the vehicle to establish probable cause to search the vehicle.  Makes no sense.


If the chemical scent escapes the bounds of your vehicle, it is considered fair game for detection without probable cause.  Same deal with smells from your house.
 
2021-05-16 5:17:04 PM  

FormlessOne: Ah, Republic, WA, the town in the county with the highest percentage of COVID-19 cases thanks to the F.O.E. super-spreader event, where shaking down anyone passing through was a cottage industry and their police chief became a RWNJ laughing-stock.


Yeah, that grifting, smirking POS that lost his job because the county didn't need him back.
 
2021-05-16 5:17:46 PM  

Dinjiin: You'd think that defense attorneys would have started demanding qualification scores for detection dogs from police departments.  Oh right, no such scores exist because detection dogs are rarely ever tested, if at all.

So what makes them any better than some random mutt taken from off the street?

/we all know the answer to that one



The courts don't care.  They know dogs are horrifically unreliable, and have ruled it doesn't mean anything at all.

Florida v. Harris was about a dog that was wrong 80% of the time.  The SCOTUS ruled unanimously... in favor of the dog.
 
2021-05-16 5:20:28 PM  
If they want to search the car there is a trigger word that can be used so the dog will "find" something.
 
2021-05-16 5:22:02 PM  
Those poor dogs shouldn't have to be tortured into police work.
 
2021-05-16 5:24:38 PM  
I had a bomb-dog hit on my van during a pre-entry check in the contractor lot at Mall of America not long after 9-11.

Things got real in a hurry, with a flurry of radio communications to supervisors and commands for me to "STEP AWAY FROM THE VEHICLE, SIR!".

Turns out the dog had found an old piece of beef jerky long lost to the passenger side map pocket
 
2021-05-16 5:28:12 PM  
you gonna trust a dog that licks its own ass?

/what about pigs?
//asking for a friend
 
2021-05-16 5:29:53 PM  

Psylence: If they want to search the car there is a trigger word that can be used so the dog will "find" something.


Is the trigger word "do you see a camera"? Seems like "drug" dogs is just a meaningless title and just a portable excuse to have a search warrant for whatever you want. I don't even know why they go through the theatre, other than because cameras exist.
 
2021-05-16 5:30:11 PM  
There was a show on last year called 'America's Top Dog'. It was kinda like American Ninja Warrior but for dogs. The majority of the dogs competing were police K-9s and one of the challenges was detection. They had like 4 or five mock rooms set up, like an office, a bedroom, bathroom etc.

They would hide the scent in some random place or object in each room and they had to find it. Maybe it shouldn't have been but it was surprising to me how often a lot of the dogs either couldn't find anything at all or alerted to the wrong spot.
 
Al!
2021-05-16 5:34:57 PM  
FTFA:

was innocent but got stuck with impound fees and an eight-mile walk back to town.

I love the US. "We were able to prove your innocence, so we won't be charging you. We will, however, be charging you, and if you fail to pay you'll go to jail anyway. Oh, also, I hope you're in shape, because you're going to get about 20,000 steps in on your walk home. Just be thankful you aren't black; those people get a free ride to the morgue when we detect non-existent drugs in their cars."
 
2021-05-16 5:43:06 PM  

SpectroBoy: Pigs, two different ones.


Don't blame the dog.  It is just doing what it is trained to do and had no choice in the matter. Blame the people who trained it and used it as a tool to violate people.
 
2021-05-16 5:43:08 PM  
If like real Cold War espionage stories, I recommend "The Spy and the Traitor" which is a book about MI6 recruiting and running a double-agent in the KGB and the escape plan to get him safely from Moscow to England. The toughest part of the escape was getting across the Russia/Finland border with the defector in the trunk of a British diplomat's car.

By convention, diplomatic vehicles are effectively "diplomatic bags" and can't be searched, but an equivalent "probable cause" tactic was often employed by the KGB. The KGB had been trailing the diplomat's car on the trip from Moscow, but the British embassy officers (with MI6 training) had manage to slip the tail a couple of times and eventually get to pickup point for the former KGB officer. At the last stop, the Russians brought out the sniffer dogs to check the car. In a fit of desperation inspiration, the diplomat's wife who had her infant child along for the ride, dropped the baby's recently-soiled diaper outside the car, effectively stopping the dogs from smelling anything else.
 
2021-05-16 5:43:52 PM  
Well marijuana is legal there, of course they are going to detect it.
 
2021-05-16 5:45:23 PM  
FTFA:  That's when Karma showed up with his handler, Loren Culp, who served as Republic's police chief until the city dissolved its department in November 2020. Culp led Karma on a leash around Farris' vehicle twice. Then Culp paused and pointed to a rear panel with the palm of his hand, and Karma sat down-his trained final response indicating the presence of drugs.

Aha.  Loren Culp, the nimrod high school dropout from Everett, WA who was the best the GOP had to offer, and had his ass handed to him by incumbent Inslee in the last governor's race.
 
2021-05-16 5:45:55 PM  
Seriously, I never cease to be amazed that otherwise intelligent, educated judges are so bamboozled by the utter nonsense that drug dog handlers peddle in their courts. Their dogs are 100% reliable, because even if they alert on a car that has no drugs in it, the car must have had drugs in it at some point, because otherwise why would the dog alert? A normal person of average or even below average intelligence can recognize the logical fallacy, but prosecutors and judges lap it up like it's truth from on high.

But even judges who are stupid enough to accept the dog handler's opinion as fact don't seem to get it -- if a dog is as likely to alert on a car that doesn't have drugs in it as it is to alert to a car that does, then what good is the alert? A finding of "probable cause" is supposed to mean that the presence of drugs is more likely than not, and by the handlers' own testimony, their dog alert doesn't provide any useful information about whether there are any drugs in the car.

The bottom line is that cops, prosecutors, and judges just don't give a shiat. They don't care if innocent people have to wait around while a bunch of cops rummage through their personal belongings. They just don't see personal privacy as important. Unless it happens to them, of course.
 
2021-05-16 5:50:56 PM  
No, the handler doesn't tell the dog what to find. It's a lot simpler than that.

Dogs don't detect drugs. They detect a smell. Some drugs, like weed and cocaine, are very stinky, and the scent can linger for hours or days. The dogs absolutely do smell that odor if the drug has been there, and will alert on that smell. The less smelly the drug (like pills) the less likely it is that the dog will alert.

That in no way means there are drugs in the location, or that the dog is wrong if there aren't. It means that the location smells like an odor the dog was trained to alert on.

Dogs are not trained to find drugs. They're trained to sit down or scratch when they smell a particular smell. It's dumb humans who make that illogical leap and assume that they're "finding drugs." All we need to do is take a logical step back and remember that the dog is only responding to a smell. It's up to humans to remember that a) weed stinks to high heaven and it lasts a long time, b) even if the dog alerts, its only responding to the smell, c) so you still gotta search, and d) because of a, b and c, you could search and there might be nothing there.

Then there's the other wrench in the works, which is that if the dog doesn't work with the same handler all the time, the handler won't recognize the dog's signals reliably, and might miss them or mistake what he's seeing.
 
2021-05-16 5:55:45 PM  
Actually once had a dog go off on my absolutely clean vehicle while crossing from Canada to the United States.

USCBP asked me if I knew why the dog was going off.

I told him honestly I had no idea and they could search the car if necessary as we were in no particular hurry.

They said no it's probably the dog and let us go.  Crazy but true and completely the opposite of what happened in the article.
 
2021-05-16 5:57:30 PM  

dark brew: I never understood the logic behind drug dogs.  The courts decided that because they have such a high detection rate, that means they can be used to establish probable cause to search a vehicle.  For the sake of argument, let's assume a drug dog will hit 100% of the time when there are drugs in the vehicle and 0% of the time when there are not.  I know this is nowhere close to being true, it all depends upon the handler, but let's live in the world where they are infallible.  In that world, using drug dogs to establish probable cause to search a vehicle is a search in and of its self.  The dogs sniffers are so powerful that they are performing the search that police don't have enough evidence to do the search without the dogs.  They are searching the vehicle to establish probable cause to search the vehicle.  Makes no sense.


That's not how this works. Detecting a scent from outside a vehicle is not a search, just like smelling alcohol on someone's breath is not a search.
 
2021-05-16 6:03:06 PM  

dark brew: In that world, using drug dogs to establish probable cause to search a vehicle is a search in and of its self.


That's been challenged in court, and the ruling was that the dog is sniffing the air outside the vehicle where there is no expectation of privacy, thus no intrusion that would be protected by the constitution.

That being said, I think drug dogs are too unreliable to be used to establish probable cause. Even the best of them aren't good enough. The Supreme Court disagrees with me though.
 
2021-05-16 6:03:57 PM  
Culp must be a real POS.  The handlers I used to know would part with their front teeth before they parted with their dogs.
 
2021-05-16 6:09:44 PM  

NotThatGuyAgain: soupafi: Police dogs should not be used to detect drugs

Well thank God they don't use police cats.


SCPD "Feline Unit" April Fool's Prank || ViralHog
Youtube jxOgu9acRIw
 
2021-05-16 6:19:19 PM  

NotThatGuyAgain: soupafi: Police dogs should not be used to detect drugs

Well thank God they don't use police cats.


I think they should. Imagine how that would work for barricaded suspects.

"Come out or we're sending in the police cats!"
Guy doesn't come out, they drop a sack of angry cats down the AC shaft. In a few minutes, the guy comes out with cats dug in on his head, balled up on his hands, wrapped around his crotch...

You'd only need to do it once or twice before every crook in America would give up at the first mention of "police cats."

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-05-16 6:22:46 PM  
Ah the Magic DogTM.
 
2021-05-16 6:27:28 PM  
Cat steals marijuana and brings it to police
Youtube 6ZYhnRcRKBE
narc
 
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