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(NBC News)   Oklahoma governor removed from Tulsa Race Massacre commission for signing bill prohibiting teaching about Tulsa Race Massacre   (nbcnews.com) divider line
    More: Obvious, Racism, Oklahoma, Republican governor, Oklahoma Gov. Kevin Stitt, commission project manager Phil Armstrong, The Bill, commission, Governor Stitt  
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2102 clicks; posted to Politics » on 16 May 2021 at 5:26 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-05-16 12:23:03 PM  
Oklahoma has never been OK.
 
2021-05-16 12:31:48 PM  
Sure the reason the republican is no longer on Tulsa race massacre commission is because he found out it was not going to be a reenactment celebration.
 
2021-05-16 1:20:55 PM  
WHEN DO THE FIRST NATIONS GET THEIR LAND BACK, FEDGOV???
 
2021-05-16 1:51:09 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: WHEN DO THE FIRST NATIONS GET THEIR LAND BACK, FEDGOV???


The answer remains the same for the last 150 years:  After all the mineral wealth has been extracted and all the toxic waste is dumped there.

Or was that a trick question?
 
2021-05-16 3:32:12 PM  

I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: WHEN DO THE FIRST NATIONS GET THEIR LAND BACK, FEDGOV???


My question exactly!
 
2021-05-16 3:40:43 PM  

wejash: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: WHEN DO THE FIRST NATIONS GET THEIR LAND BACK, FEDGOV???

The answer remains the same for the last 150 years:  After all the mineral wealth has been extracted and all the toxic waste is dumped there.

Or was that a trick question?


I do remember the biggest radioactive release was in the Navajo nation and it even is barley even mentioned or known by people even with it still causing deaths.
https://nmindepth.com/2014/07/07/reme​m​bering-the-largest-radioactive-spill-i​n-u-s-history/
 
2021-05-16 5:01:24 PM  
Among the concepts that are prohibited from being taught are that individuals, by virtue of race or gender, are inherently racist, sexist or oppressive, whether consciously or unconsciously.

I'm still blown away by this law, but the wording here is revealing, if you think of it from the Republican point of view. To teach, to Republicans, means to tell students how the world is. Whereas, for teachers - particularly those in the humanities - teaching means providing the tools needed for critical analysis of a particular field or topic, including all of the relevant theories.

So teachers see this as 'here are several approaches to race, each of which has serious defenders, and they include those who claim that white people are inherently racist,' but Republicans see this as, 'teachers are telling students white people are inherently racist.'

/Yes, I know the primary motive here is to promote white supremacy because duh
 
2021-05-16 5:02:13 PM  
Man, nothing upsets white people more than having to confront their racist past.
 
2021-05-16 5:09:22 PM  
The commission booted a racist out of his seat.

/Good for them.
 
2021-05-16 5:25:55 PM  
Conservatives are in full on denial of reality these days no matter the subject.

Thanks President fake news.
 
2021-05-16 5:26:19 PM  

MattytheMouse: Man, nothing upsets white people more than having to confront their racist past.


Whaddaya mean past?
 
2021-05-16 5:27:12 PM  

dionysusaur: MattytheMouse: Man, nothing upsets white people more than having to confront their racist past.

Whaddaya mean past?


Nothing upsets white people more than having to confront their racism.
 
2021-05-16 5:36:23 PM  
He looks like someone from the era who would have gunned down black people with no compunction.

Yes, I'm profiling.
 
2021-05-16 5:39:26 PM  
He's doomed to never get  a movie extra slot on Watchmen now, unless as a corpse.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-05-16 5:40:05 PM  
Stigginit.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-05-16 5:40:11 PM  
Ooooo-klahoma, where the derp comes sweepin' down the plain.
 
2021-05-16 5:40:11 PM  

Ragin' Asian: He looks like someone from the era who would have gunned down black people with no compunction.

Yes, I'm profiling.


They ALWAYS look exactly like you think they will look. There are two distinct camps. One is the straight family tree camp, and the other is the boss hog, haw, haw, haw, I have a silver spoon shoved up my ass camp.
 
2021-05-16 5:42:17 PM  

MattytheMouse: Man, nothing upsets white people more than having to confront their racist past.


That's not quite true.

We get pretty het up about our racist present, too.
 
2021-05-16 5:45:18 PM  

My Klezmer Metal Cover Band: MattytheMouse: Man, nothing upsets white people more than having to confront their racist past.

That's not quite true.

We get pretty het up about our racist present, too.


Nothing upsets Matty more than people pointed out the subtle ways in which he's wrong after he's already amended his thoughts upthread.
 
2021-05-16 5:46:04 PM  

MattytheMouse: dionysusaur: MattytheMouse: Man, nothing upsets white people more than having to confront their racist past.

Whaddaya mean past?

Nothing upsets white people more than having to confront their racism.


That's basically been the last 4 years.

After Trump's win: *racist tirades from a lot of stupid people*

About a year later: *stupid people angry that open racism has consequences*

Years later: *Republicans angry that people assume they're racist*

No Republicans, the Internet is making sure no one forgets the racism or the insurrection anytime soon.
 
2021-05-16 5:46:54 PM  

eurotrader: wejash: I am Tom Joad's Complete Lack of Surprise: WHEN DO THE FIRST NATIONS GET THEIR LAND BACK, FEDGOV???

The answer remains the same for the last 150 years:  After all the mineral wealth has been extracted and all the toxic waste is dumped there.

Or was that a trick question?

I do remember the biggest radioactive release was in the Navajo nation and it even is barley even mentioned or known by people even with it still causing deaths.
https://nmindepth.com/2014/07/07/remem​bering-the-largest-radioactive-spill-i​n-u-s-history/


This ought to cheer you up.

https://www.npr.org/sections/health-s​h​ots/2017/11/14/562856213/for-some-nati​ve-americans-uranium-contamination-fee​ls-like-discrimination
 
2021-05-16 5:53:40 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: So teachers see this as 'here are several approaches to race, each of which has serious defenders, and they include those who claim that white people are inherently racist,' but Republicans see this as, 'teachers are telling students white people are inherently racist.'


So...was the non-Republican version of that supposed to be defensible?

"Hurr, durr teach the controversy."
 
2021-05-16 5:56:46 PM  

MattytheMouse: My Klezmer Metal Cover Band: MattytheMouse: Man, nothing upsets white people more than having to confront their racist past.

That's not quite true.

We get pretty het up about our racist present, too.

Nothing upsets Matty more than people pointed out the subtle ways in which he's wrong after he's already amended his thoughts upthread.


Yeah I was late to finish the rest of ye thread ⏰
 
2021-05-16 5:59:05 PM  
When the US teaches that their country has done some truly horrific things, not just a few great ones, then perhaps we can progress as a country.  I do not see that happening anytime soon.  An ignorant populace is a controlled populace.
 
2021-05-16 5:59:19 PM  

My Klezmer Metal Cover Band: MattytheMouse: My Klezmer Metal Cover Band: MattytheMouse: Man, nothing upsets white people more than having to confront their racist past.

That's not quite true.

We get pretty het up about our racist present, too.

Nothing upsets Matty more than people pointed out the subtle ways in which he's wrong after he's already amended his thoughts upthread.

Yeah I was late to finish the rest of ye thread ⏰


Nothing pleases Matty more than consolation with other Fark posters. <3
 
2021-05-16 5:59:52 PM  

AliceBToklasLives: Among the concepts that are prohibited from being taught are that individuals, by virtue of race or gender, are inherently racist, sexist or oppressive, whether consciously or unconsciously.

I'm still blown away by this law, but the wording here is revealing, if you think of it from the Republican point of view. To teach, to Republicans, means to tell students how the world is. Whereas, for teachers - particularly those in the humanities - teaching means providing the tools needed for critical analysis of a particular field or topic, including all of the relevant theories.

So teachers see this as 'here are several approaches to race, each of which has serious defenders, and they include those who claim that white people are inherently racist,' but Republicans see this as, 'teachers are telling students white people are inherently racist.'

/Yes, I know the primary motive here is to promote white supremacy because duh


It's also hilarious, because teaching people "are inherently racist" doesn't prevent educators from teaching about the history of culturally constructed and maintained racism.
 
2021-05-16 6:00:53 PM  
So how do they teach what was happening in Europe during world war 2? Or why the united states only joined after they were attacked and not when it became evident that there was a literal genocide going on? Or for that matter the entire colonial invasion of Africa and what it did to the people there?

You want to say people aren't inherently racist? Okay. But then explain what happened and why the entire world left indigenous people to die at best or enslaved and murdered them? You can not effectively teach world history without race playing a key role. But then, this is Oklahoma, and really history didn't start for them until Barbara Streisand sang some songs about them.
 
2021-05-16 6:02:45 PM  

BMFPitt: AliceBToklasLives: So teachers see this as 'here are several approaches to race, each of which has serious defenders, and they include those who claim that white people are inherently racist,' but Republicans see this as, 'teachers are telling students white people are inherently racist.'

So...was the non-Republican version of that supposed to be defensible?

"Hurr, durr teach the controversy."


As someone who had that kind of education, I can say yes.

If I learn the various ways people approach the same problem AND the strengths and weaknesses of each approach, I learn how to examine the arguments/approaches I meet in the real world.

As an analogy, let's do engineering/fabrication.

The problem is two pieces of material need to be joined.  There's an argument for welding (tig, mig, stick, soldering. brazing).  There's an argument for screws or rivets or other mechanical fasteners.  Someone might suggest one of a million kinds of glue.

There are a couple of right answers depending on the materials and their properties, cost, and the necessary longevity of the finished piece, right?  And there are some really wrong answers.  But if I want to do a good job I will learn about all of them.
 
2021-05-16 6:03:08 PM  
I find that kind of annoying.

People aren't inherently "racist" because of their gender or ethnicity. There is nothing about being born white vs. being born black that makes you racist out of the womb. It seems to imply that if all things were equal, white people would still be evil racists, and yet that's obviously not true.

On the other hand, fear of the out-group and loyalty to the in-group is hardwired into the primate psyche and that's never going to be erased from our genetic makeup. It's a survival technique that served us well in our remote past, so it's in the DNA now. Sorry about that.

Getting institutional racism under control is certainly possible and desirable, but calling everyone white a racist by virtue of their European heritage isn't going to help in that goal.
 
2021-05-16 6:08:09 PM  

Gyrfalcon: I find that kind of annoying.

People aren't inherently "racist" because of their gender or ethnicity. There is nothing about being born white vs. being born black that makes you racist out of the womb. It seems to imply that if all things were equal, white people would still be evil racists, and yet that's obviously not true.

On the other hand, fear of the out-group and loyalty to the in-group is hardwired into the primate psyche and that's never going to be erased from our genetic makeup. It's a survival technique that served us well in our remote past, so it's in the DNA now. Sorry about that.

Getting institutional racism under control is certainly possible and desirable, but calling everyone white a racist by virtue of their European heritage isn't going to help in that goal.


Our society teaches us who is in-group and who is out-group.  We have to work on where those lines are drawn.
 
2021-05-16 6:09:08 PM  

rosekolodny: As someone who had that kind of education, I can say yes.

If I learn the various ways people approach the same problem AND the strengths and weaknesses of each approach, I learn how to examine the arguments/approaches I meet in the real world.

As an analogy, let's do engineering/fabrication.

The problem is two pieces of material need to be joined.  There's an argument for welding (tig, mig, stick, soldering. brazing).  There's an argument for screws or rivets or other mechanical fasteners.  Someone might suggest one of a million kinds of glue.

There are a couple of right answers depending on the materials and their properties, cost, and the necessary longevity of the finished piece, right?  And there are some really wrong answers.  But if I want to do a good job I will learn about all of them.


So you're equating the teaching of racism in schools with the teaching of welding methodologies?

If that was something I felt compelled to do, I'd probably cut my own internet connection to prevent myself from posting it.

If you're going to make intellectually dishonest arguments, why make ones so obviously embarrassing?
 
2021-05-16 6:10:59 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-05-16 6:15:43 PM  

BMFPitt: rosekolodny: As someone who had that kind of education, I can say yes.

If I learn the various ways people approach the same problem AND the strengths and weaknesses of each approach, I learn how to examine the arguments/approaches I meet in the real world.

As an analogy, let's do engineering/fabrication.

The problem is two pieces of material need to be joined.  There's an argument for welding (tig, mig, stick, soldering. brazing).  There's an argument for screws or rivets or other mechanical fasteners.  Someone might suggest one of a million kinds of glue.

There are a couple of right answers depending on the materials and their properties, cost, and the necessary longevity of the finished piece, right?  And there are some really wrong answers.  But if I want to do a good job I will learn about all of them.

So you're equating the teaching of racism in schools with the teaching of welding methodologies?

If that was something I felt compelled to do, I'd probably cut my own internet connection to prevent myself from posting it.

If you're going to make intellectually dishonest arguments, why make ones so obviously embarrassing?


I was defending the teaching of theory in school.  The person I quoted said "here are several approaches to race, each of which has serious defenders, and they include those who claim that white people are inherently racist"  Those approaches aren't being taught as fact.  They are being taught as ideas to consider and dissect.

Sh*t, learning theory is boring.  But it gives one a good toolbox, a jumping-off place for examining ideas.
 
2021-05-16 6:16:40 PM  
So basically, there is nothing in the bill that prohibits teaching about the Tulsa Race Massacre, the headline that was greenlighted is a blatant lie.

The governor signed an order directing that the history of the massacre be taught in schools.

Another lie from the Marxist fringe that now dominates and controls political discussions on Fark.

https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/​t​ulsa-race-massacre-centennial-commissi​on-writes-letter-to-gov-stitt-after-si​gning-hb-1775-into-law
 
2021-05-16 6:18:51 PM  

MattytheMouse: dionysusaur: MattytheMouse: Man, nothing upsets white people more than having to confront their racist past.

Whaddaya mean past?

Nothing upsets white people more than having to confront their racism.


Thank you.
 
2021-05-16 6:19:55 PM  

Ragin' Asian: He looks like someone from the era who would have gunned down black people with no compunction.

Yes, I'm profiling.


He's never believed attractive and successfuls were people.
 
2021-05-16 6:21:53 PM  

MattytheMouse: My Klezmer Metal Cover Band: MattytheMouse: Man, nothing upsets white people more than having to confront their racist past.

That's not quite true.

We get pretty het up about our racist present, too.

Nothing upsets Matty more than people pointed out the subtle ways in which he's wrong after he's already amended his thoughts upthread.


*hugs* and/or knucks.
 
2021-05-16 6:24:11 PM  

rosekolodny: BMFPitt: AliceBToklasLives: So teachers see this as 'here are several approaches to race, each of which has serious defenders, and they include those who claim that white people are inherently racist,' but Republicans see this as, 'teachers are telling students white people are inherently racist.'

So...was the non-Republican version of that supposed to be defensible?

"Hurr, durr teach the controversy."

As someone who had that kind of education, I can say yes.

If I learn the various ways people approach the same problem AND the strengths and weaknesses of each approach, I learn how to examine the arguments/approaches I meet in the real world.

As an analogy, let's do engineering/fabrication.

The problem is two pieces of material need to be joined.  There's an argument for welding (tig, mig, stick, soldering. brazing).  There's an argument for screws or rivets or other mechanical fasteners.  Someone might suggest one of a million kinds of glue.

There are a couple of right answers depending on the materials and their properties, cost, and the necessary longevity of the finished piece, right?  And there are some really wrong answers.  But if I want to do a good job I will learn about all of them.


My admiration for the sexiness of your brain only increases.
 
2021-05-16 6:26:24 PM  

rosekolodny: I was defending the teaching of theory in school.  The person I quoted said "here are several approaches to race, each of which has serious defenders, and they include those who claim that white people are inherently racist"  Those approaches aren't being taught as fact.  They are being taught as ideas to consider and dissect.

Sh*t, learning theory is boring.  But it gives one a good toolbox, a jumping-off place for examining ideas.


So just to be clear, are you defending the teaching of this particular theory?

Whether you are or aren't, do you consider it to be substantially different from "teach the controversy" arguments in favor of intelligent design, as the wording seems nearly identical?
 
2021-05-16 6:26:34 PM  

rosekolodny: BMFPitt: AliceBToklasLives: So teachers see this as 'here are several approaches to race, each of which has serious defenders, and they include those who claim that white people are inherently racist,' but Republicans see this as, 'teachers are telling students white people are inherently racist.'

So...was the non-Republican version of that supposed to be defensible?

"Hurr, durr teach the controversy."

As someone who had that kind of education, I can say yes.

If I learn the various ways people approach the same problem AND the strengths and weaknesses of each approach, I learn how to examine the arguments/approaches I meet in the real world.

As an analogy, let's do engineering/fabrication.

The problem is two pieces of material need to be joined.  There's an argument for welding (tig, mig, stick, soldering. brazing).  There's an argument for screws or rivets or other mechanical fasteners.  Someone might suggest one of a million kinds of glue.

There are a couple of right answers depending on the materials and their properties, cost, and the necessary longevity of the finished piece, right?  And there are some really wrong answers.  But if I want to do a good job I will learn about all of them.


Reminds me of this. 
No Country for Old Men (2007) - Carson Wells & Moss | Hospital Scene
Youtube yJiyvYOKE9g
 
2021-05-16 6:32:30 PM  
This is racist.

Fark user imageView Full Size

This is twice as racist, but smaller.

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-05-16 6:32:50 PM  
As a lifelong Oklahoman with a college degree who teaches in public schools in Oklahoma, I don't think this bill is even needed.  Tulsa Race Massacre was never taught in Oklahoma history that is for sure.  I wasn't even aware it was a thing until just a couple of years ago (Watchmen), and I've lived here for 38 years and taught for 16 of those.  Although my subject area is science (has it's own can of worms), not humanities/history.

I feel that teaching about a dark time in your past, is a great way to make sure it doesn't happen again.  Trying to bury it/rationalize it is never going to fix one of the major things that are broken about our country.
 
2021-05-16 6:34:35 PM  
"It is disappointing to see an organization of such importance spend so much effort to sow division based on falsehoods and political rhetoric two weeks before the centennial and a month before the commission is scheduled to sunset," her statement said.

"How dare you point out that we're still racist farks, when you were only meant to talk about historic racism that we like to pretend ended 150 years ago."
 
2021-05-16 6:35:19 PM  

Animatronik: Marxist


Oh look, you said your magic talking point word you don't understand.  Do you get a fresh biscuit for it?
 
2021-05-16 6:37:41 PM  

Animatronik: So basically, there is nothing in the bill that prohibits teaching about the Tulsa Race Massacre, the headline that was greenlighted is a blatant lie.

The governor signed an order directing that the history of the massacre be taught in schools.

Another lie from the Marxist fringe that now dominates and controls political discussions on Fark.

https://www.kjrh.com/news/local-news/t​ulsa-race-massacre-centennial-commissi​on-writes-letter-to-gov-stitt-after-si​gning-hb-1775-into-law


It's the intent of the law that is a greater concern. The legislature isn't even attaching enforcement or guidelines, they're mandating that the dept of ed do that.

They just want to send a message to educators that you'll be liable if aiden's feelings get hurt.

Fun fact: discovered this week the legislature made teaching or discussing ebonics illegal in 1997.

Pretty sure that'd be unconstitutional
 
2021-05-16 6:38:47 PM  

Azz Pumper: As a lifelong Oklahoman with a college degree who teaches in public schools in Oklahoma, I don't think this bill is even needed.  Tulsa Race Massacre was never taught in Oklahoma history that is for sure.  I wasn't even aware it was a thing until just a couple of years ago (Watchmen), and I've lived here for 38 years and taught for 16 of those.  Although my subject area is science (has it's own can of worms), not humanities/history.

I feel that teaching about a dark time in your past, is a great way to make sure it doesn't happen again.  Trying to bury it/rationalize it is never going to fix one of the major things that are broken about our country.


technically this law can be used to outlaw teaching evolution and genetics...
 
2021-05-16 6:42:00 PM  

BMFPitt: rosekolodny: I was defending the teaching of theory in school.  The person I quoted said "here are several approaches to race, each of which has serious defenders, and they include those who claim that white people are inherently racist"  Those approaches aren't being taught as fact.  They are being taught as ideas to consider and dissect.

Sh*t, learning theory is boring.  But it gives one a good toolbox, a jumping-off place for examining ideas.

So just to be clear, are you defending the teaching of this particular theory?

Whether you are or aren't, do you consider it to be substantially different from "teach the controversy" arguments in favor of intelligent design, as the wording seems nearly identical?


It's not 'teach the controversy' because it is a serious theory. If the theory is instead "white people were created by the scientist Yakub six thousand years ago", then it is teach the controversy, because that's, you know, insane.

The point is that creationism is not a serious scientific theory and should not be taught as a plausible alternative to evolution by natural design. The claim that white people are inherently racist - which, to be clear, I reject - could be defended based on actual history. It's not just tossed in there to muddy the waters, which is the point of creationism.
 
2021-05-16 6:47:59 PM  

Gyrfalcon: I find that kind of annoying.

People aren't inherently "racist" because of their gender or ethnicity. There is nothing about being born white vs. being born black that makes you racist out of the womb. It seems to imply that if all things were equal, white people would still be evil racists, and yet that's obviously not true.

On the other hand, fear of the out-group and loyalty to the in-group is hardwired into the primate psyche and that's never going to be erased from our genetic makeup. It's a survival technique that served us well in our remote past, so it's in the DNA now. Sorry about that.

Getting institutional racism under control is certainly possible and desirable, but calling everyone white a racist by virtue of their European heritage isn't going to help in that goal.


Babies show racial bias towards members of own ethnicity.
 
2021-05-16 6:48:09 PM  

BMFPitt: rosekolodny: I was defending the teaching of theory in school.  The person I quoted said "here are several approaches to race, each of which has serious defenders, and they include those who claim that white people are inherently racist"  Those approaches aren't being taught as fact.  They are being taught as ideas to consider and dissect.

Sh*t, learning theory is boring.  But it gives one a good toolbox, a jumping-off place for examining ideas.

So just to be clear, are you defending the teaching of this particular theory?

Whether you are or aren't, do you consider it to be substantially different from "teach the controversy" arguments in favor of intelligent design, as the wording seems nearly identical?


Teaching *about* everything is good, including teaching that *some people think* racism is inherent to whiteness.  Teaching white kids that they are racist because of their skin color would be bad.  We teach *about* Nazis all the time without instilling Nazi values.

So - I think comparative religion class is good.  Learn about all the religions.  But don't teach that one religion is actually true.

The problem with "teach the controversy" is that it's disingenuous.  Creationism doesn't belong in a science class because religion doesn't answer the same questions as science (spiritual vs. physical) and it can't be examined using scientific methods.  One must discard the entire scientific process to use any creation myth to answer "how did we get here?"

A variety of theories on race DO belong in the same anthropology class, because they all address the same questions and can be examined using the same methods.  Some theories suck, like phrenology.  We still learn about them because it's important to know about the roots of one's discipline.  We still care about Archimedes and Ignaz Semmelweis, even though their ideas don't represent SCIENCE as it exists today.
 
2021-05-16 6:49:55 PM  

Animatronik: Marxist


Oh look, the Republican is spouting words he doesn't understand, and thinks are just a synonym for 'not right-wing, and therefore bad'.

Must be a day.
 
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