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(Screen Rant)   "Did DS9 Plagiarize Babylon 5?"   (screenrant.com) divider line
    More: Misc, Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, Deep Space, Star Trek, producer J. Michael Straczynski, Paramount Studios, Star Trek franchise, Star Trek: The Next Generation, crew of the Federation space station  
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1332 clicks; posted to Fandom » on 14 May 2021 at 5:05 PM (4 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-05-14 3:08:24 PM  
"Meanwhile, I'll be having sex."


Aww, who am I kidding?
 
2021-05-14 3:09:02 PM  
yes
 
2021-05-14 3:18:23 PM  
The space station part, and the name Dukhat.  But that's really all they had in common.
 
2021-05-14 3:42:45 PM  
Straczynski made it clear that he did not believe that Deep Space Nine creators Rick Berman and Michael Piller had directly plagiarized him

Answer: no.

Longer answer: read my Fark login.
 
2021-05-14 3:55:40 PM  
Maybe both shows were the product of their environment. Like Earth, and the Gangster planet in Star Trek.
 
2021-05-14 4:05:12 PM  

Destructor: Maybe both shows were the product of their environment. Like Earth, and the Gangster planet in Star Trek.


...but both the Gangster planet and the Nazi planet were actually... oh, I see what you did there.
 
2021-05-14 4:29:26 PM  
 
2021-05-14 4:46:21 PM  
scontent-dfw5-1.xx.fbcdn.netView Full Size
 
2021-05-14 4:55:42 PM  
I mean, most scientific imaging tools that can handle the FITS format are naturally going to have similar features.
 
2021-05-14 5:13:04 PM  

Alphax: The space station part, and the name Dukhat.  But that's really all they had in common.


b5thoughts.files.wordpress.comView Full Size


Am I joke to you?
 
2021-05-14 5:18:03 PM  

Alphax: The space station part, and the name Dukhat.  But that's really all they had in common.


And even the space station part just made sense for DS9 in order to differentiate it from TNG that was airing at the same time for a few seasons.
 
2021-05-14 5:29:15 PM  
Don't forget the main character being an alien messiah. Well, until B5 needed to change main characters, anyway, which the details behind that are sad.

Also, having recently rewatched B5, anything that show does around sex ends up being cringey as fuuuuauuck. And Marcus was such a farking creep.
 
2021-05-14 5:30:53 PM  
The characters made the shows, and they were unique
 
2021-05-14 5:36:54 PM  

Alphax: The space station part, and the name Dukhat.  But that's really all they had in common.


and, most crucially, although DS9 did it EXTREMELY poorly by comparison, the serialized nature of the story telling was revolutionary for TV generally when B5 generally and nearly unheard of in the Trekverse which actually had instructions to his writers not to make consequential changes to the Trek Universe or the personalities and relationships of the main characters.  Trek was the epitome of episodic TV and everything generally wrapped itself into a bow after 43 minutes.  DS9 started episodic and then became serialized as the seasons went on, and yes, as gracious as JMS has been publicly about it, he FIRMLY believes his concept was stolen.  He's said as much to me personally.
 
2021-05-14 5:43:51 PM  

t3knomanser: Don't forget the main character being an alien messiah. Well, until B5 needed to change main characters, anyway, which the details behind that are sad.

Also, having recently rewatched B5, anything that show does around sex ends up being cringey as fuuuuauuck. And Marcus was such a farking creep.


Also, the Centauri and the Narn were kind of similar to the Cardassiens and the Bajorans.

Both shows started out with a lot of similar ideas but they went in very different directions with them.
 
2021-05-14 5:48:16 PM  
They both had bad guys and good guys, mushed together in a place to interact, without too many extra sets or decoration.  Similar in that way, but different writing and general storyline.  I liked both myself.
 
2021-05-14 5:50:33 PM  

Xythero: t3knomanser: Don't forget the main character being an alien messiah. Well, until B5 needed to change main characters, anyway, which the details behind that are sad.

Also, having recently rewatched B5, anything that show does around sex ends up being cringey as fuuuuauuck. And Marcus was such a farking creep.

Also, the Centauri and the Narn were kind of similar to the Cardassiens and the Bajorans.

Both shows started out with a lot of similar ideas but they went in very different directions with them.


How dare you?  The Centauri are a noble and cultured people.
 
2021-05-14 5:51:45 PM  
So two shows that were set on space stations were a lot alike? Just like all westerns set in wild west towns are a lot alike? I'm shocked.
 
2021-05-14 5:55:49 PM  
The DS in DS9 stands for Deep Snooze. Unwatchable.
 
2021-05-14 6:06:35 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size

B5 was great back in the day! Well, most of it;  there were some "move along home" episodes of both shows. Andreas Klatus was Tomalok and G'Kar, let that sink in!
 
2021-05-14 6:10:06 PM  
Who gives a shiat, Reservoir Dogs ripped off City on Fire but it was the better film.

And DS9 doesn't look like it was rendered on an Atari 5200.
 
2021-05-14 6:13:19 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-05-14 6:18:17 PM  

kbronsito: Alphax: The space station part, and the name Dukhat.  But that's really all they had in common.

[b5thoughts.files.wordpress.com image 850x478]

Am I joke to you?


Well, Pat Tallman did play some aliens on NextGen, and was occasionally Gates McFadden's stuntwoman.
 
2021-05-14 6:23:32 PM  
No matter how many times JMS trots this horseshiat out, it remains horseshiat.

/love both shows
 
2021-05-14 6:37:29 PM  
It's *really* hard to argue that DS9s originators didn't get a peak at Babylon 5s script first and decide to run with the core concepts, and there's a ton of parallels, but they're all expressed so differently I don't think it matters.
 
2021-05-14 6:37:38 PM  

Alphax: The space station part, and the name Dukhat.  But that's really all they had in common.


...and a redhead named Lita
...and a character named Dukat
...and the space station's leader's initials being "j.s."
...whose favorite sport was baseball
...and who became a god figure
...a space station just outside a wormhole
...and....

But yeah, that's really all they had in common.

:-P

/ "but even Straczynski seemed to feel direct plagiarism was very unlikely" after Paramount paid him lots of money
 
2021-05-14 6:43:54 PM  

Magorn: Alphax: The space station part, and the name Dukhat.  But that's really all they had in common.

and, most crucially, although DS9 did it EXTREMELY poorly by comparison, the serialized nature of the story telling was revolutionary for TV generally when B5 generally and nearly unheard of in the Trekverse which actually had instructions to his writers not to make consequential changes to the Trek Universe or the personalities and relationships of the main characters.  Trek was the epitome of episodic TV and everything generally wrapped itself into a bow after 43 minutes.  DS9 started episodic and then became serialized as the seasons went on, and yes, as gracious as JMS has been publicly about it, he FIRMLY believes his concept was stolen.  He's said as much to me personally.



Yeah, JMS has been doing a tightrope act on that.

But if we're going to really get into concepts being things that you truly own, then everyone owes a bunch of cash to some ancient Greek playwrights.
 
2021-05-14 6:43:59 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-05-14 6:44:58 PM  

kbronsito: Alphax: The space station part, and the name Dukhat.  But that's really all they had in common.

[b5thoughts.files.wordpress.com image 850x478]

Am I joke to you?


Babylon 5 Bloopers
Youtube r9WkQTzAcYk
 
2021-05-14 6:54:49 PM  

ArcadianRefugee: Alphax: The space station part, and the name Dukhat.  But that's really all they had in common.

...and a redhead named Lita
...and a character named Dukat
...and the space station's leader's initials being "j.s."
...whose favorite sport was baseball
...and who became a god figure
...a space station just outside a wormhole
...and....

But yeah, that's really all they had in common.

:-P

/ "but even Straczynski seemed to feel direct plagiarism was very unlikely" after Paramount paid him lots of money


I was always suspect of Jen Sisko.
 
2021-05-14 6:56:06 PM  

Alphax: The space station part, and the name Dukhat.  But that's really all they had in common.


I believe "Dabo girl" is used on both series.
 
2021-05-14 7:10:29 PM  
This was covered six months ago, if not earlier.

Is Star Trek: Deep Space Nine Actually a Rip Off of Babylon 5?
Youtube dNXdonu8u-A
 
2021-05-14 7:31:43 PM  
JMS has additional evidence in his autobiography that documents some intentionality, but I don't think it is fair to call it plagiarism. It was more of the studio saying that our spinoff should have enough similarities to the show a competitor wanted to do that either they give up or risk people thinking the non-Trek show was a ripoff. Dick move, yes. Plagiarism, no.

Think of The Addams Family and The Munsters. That they appeared at the same time is not a coincidence, but it did not even remotely rise to the level of plagiarism.
 
2021-05-14 7:36:50 PM  
This is not a new take.

Fans of both shows have been arguing since the shows' first airings, and the general consensus is that they pushed each other. Where one show went, the other went one further. It was healthy and friendly competition and it made for compelling 90s sci-fi TV (I have yet to meet a fan of one but not the other. Everyone is a fan of both)

Friend of mine even did a watch-both-shows-in-the-order-of-episo​de-airings marathon recently and you can really see the parallels and influences better that way.
 
2021-05-14 7:39:07 PM  
Look, I like DS9, quite a bit. It's the best show TOS. Buuuut, Babylon 5 is the superior show.

/I have spoken
 
2021-05-14 7:46:52 PM  
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-05-14 8:39:37 PM  
The fact that both series had a shape-shifter character (which B5 changed to shape-shifting technology in its pilot episode) is simply coincidental.

Right?
 
2021-05-14 8:44:27 PM  

Alphax: The space station part, and the name Dukhat.  But that's really all they had in common.


They also shared the idea of a serialized plot that ran through multiple seasons (though that doesn't seem to have been in the initial DNA of DS9 it did develop via the Dominion War).

That's not exactly plagiarism since you can't copyright the idea of serialization but it is another factor the two shows shared.
 
2021-05-14 8:54:58 PM  

Mugato: Who gives a shiat, Reservoir Dogs ripped off City on Fire but it was the better film.

And DS9 doesn't look like it was rendered on an Atari 5200.


Amiga.

Seriously. An Amiga.

The story of VFX, Commodore Amiga and Babylon 5
Youtube Xn3UraChY0c
 
2021-05-14 8:59:30 PM  

GardenWeasel: Mugato: Who gives a shiat, Reservoir Dogs ripped off City on Fire but it was the better film. And DS9 doesn't look like it was rendered on an Atari 5200.

Amiga. Seriously. An Amiga. [Youtube-video https://www.youtube.com/embed/Xn3UraCh​Y0c]


And I thought I was engaging in hyperbole.

Not that VFX are important in a story.
 
2021-05-14 9:04:40 PM  
Lizard like aliens  (Narns, Cardassians)
White male lead, female XO, minority doctor.
Inscrutable ancient aliens (Vorlons, Prophets)


Add them to the lists above.
 
2021-05-14 9:07:20 PM  

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Lizard like aliens  (Narns, Cardassians)
White male lead, female XO, minority doctor.
Inscrutable ancient aliens (Vorlons, Prophets)


Add them to the lists above.


Sorry, scratch the word 'white' in my previous post.  On-line fatigue.
 
2021-05-14 9:09:08 PM  

Nonrepeating Rotating Binary: Lizard like aliens  (Narns, Cardassians) White male lead, female XO, minority doctor. Inscrutable ancient aliens (Vorlons, Prophets) Add them to the lists above.


And they both were in space!!
 
2021-05-14 9:29:28 PM  
Portlandia - Real Nerd
Youtube J9Jbz4c_WKA
 
2021-05-14 9:32:48 PM  
My incredibly biased take is this:

I have seen DS9 like 5 times. I can quote all my favorite parts. I know the names of most episodes if I catch it on TV or if it comes up in conversation. I've read maybe 30 of the novels and have a good chunk of both the Malibu and Marvel comics series that ran in the 90s. I like the show.

B5? Not a single person has ever recommended it to me and the only time it comes to my attention that it ever even existed is when people are having this exact debate on Fark for the umpteenth time.
 
2021-05-14 9:42:08 PM  

magneticmushroom: My incredibly biased take is this:

I have seen DS9 like 5 times. I can quote all my favorite parts. I know the names of most episodes if I catch it on TV or if it comes up in conversation. I've read maybe 30 of the novels and have a good chunk of both the Malibu and Marvel comics series that ran in the 90s. I like the show.

B5? Not a single person has ever recommended it to me and the only time it comes to my attention that it ever even existed is when people are having this exact debate on Fark for the umpteenth time.


I'm officially recommending it to you.

I liked both shows but B5 was much more emotionally satisfying because it builds the story from the first episode onward and it really rewards attentive viewers.

Also I'm not ashamed to admit that the series finale made me cry.
 
2021-05-14 9:48:00 PM  

magneticmushroom: I've read maybe 30 of the novels and have a good chunk of both the Malibu and Marvel comics series that ran in the 90s. I like the show.


30 novels, really? Damn. I don't think there are that many Star Wars novels.

....just looked it up, nevermind.

B5 just seemed campier than DS9. Sure, DS9 had some silly episodes (the holodeck/suite is as worse an idea than the transporter) but it was more serious, if there is such a thing in a show like that.
 
2021-05-14 9:51:30 PM  
Babylon 5 cost about $650k per episode while DS9 had $2M per episode to play with.

That's why they used an Amiga 3000 and Video Toaster to make the spaceships instead of building and filming models.
 
2021-05-14 9:54:27 PM  

Circusdog320: The DS in DS9 stands for Deep Snooze. Unwatchable.


It's the best Trek series, but you have to be able to remember a story that is told over many episodes to enjoy it, so it's not for everyone.
 
2021-05-14 9:54:29 PM  

madgonad: Babylon 5 cost about $650k per episode while DS9 had $2M per episode to play with. That's why they used an Amiga 3000 and Video Toaster to make the spaceships instead of building and filming models.


I work in VFX and I know that VFX doesn't make a movie or show, I was just busting balls.
 
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