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(CNN)   "Yo brah, is it cool to have so many people out here on this balcony? Looks like it might collapse" "Nah brah, we're good. Have another PBR." Two seconds later   (cnn.com) divider line
    More: Fail, Kentucky Derby, CNN, Tawny Kitaen, Weather, Extreme weather, Balcony collapses, Turner Broadcasting System, CNN Pipeline  
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4233 clicks; posted to Main » on 11 May 2021 at 7:41 AM (6 weeks ago)   |   Favorite    |   share:  Share on Twitter share via Email Share on Facebook



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2021-05-11 7:46:15 AM  
Had something like this here. A subcontractor didn't follow the plans right, misinstalled a water barrier and then only used some screws to attach the balcony to the outer wall instead of the proper load bearing hardware the engineer designed. Water got in, it rotted and one day balcony collapsed. Lots of lawsuits about how it should've been caught long before completion
 
2021-05-11 7:46:30 AM  
They looked more Zima than PBR.
 
2021-05-11 7:48:05 AM  
"6 people became 30."

Jesus, ItsAVaginaNotAClownCar.midi
 
2021-05-11 7:50:04 AM  
Shoulda been drinking Lite beers.
 
2021-05-11 7:54:44 AM  

dryknife: Shoulda been drinking Lite beers.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-05-11 7:55:08 AM  
Herp a Derp.  Stupid is largely not fixible after grade school.
What's a load limit?
What's that creaking sound?
Pour me another.  It's all good.
 
2021-05-11 7:55:34 AM  
PBR sucks.
 
2021-05-11 7:56:27 AM  

Salmon: They looked more Zima than PBR.


Seriously. No one at a Malibu party has EVER drank a PBR.
 
2021-05-11 7:56:38 AM  

TheDirtyNacho: Had something like this here. A subcontractor didn't follow the plans right, misinstalled a water barrier and then only used some screws to attach the balcony to the outer wall instead of the proper load bearing hardware the engineer designed. Water got in, it rotted and one day balcony collapsed. Lots of lawsuits about how it should've been caught long before completion


encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.comView Full Size


God damned As Built.
 
2021-05-11 7:58:39 AM  

BeesNuts: TheDirtyNacho: Had something like this here. A subcontractor didn't follow the plans right, misinstalled a water barrier and then only used some screws to attach the balcony to the outer wall instead of the proper load bearing hardware the engineer designed. Water got in, it rotted and one day balcony collapsed. Lots of lawsuits about how it should've been caught long before completion

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 292x173]

God damned As Built.


Wasn't that what caused the collapse of those walkways in a Kansas City hotel or whatever in the early 80s?
 
2021-05-11 8:01:04 AM  
I was at a party once, and stepped out on to the balcony to get way from the crowd, and at first one or two people follow out there, then before I notice, half the party has moved on to the balcony.

I went inside and then told them through the open door, "I really think there are too many people on that balcony."

A couple of the fatter ones looked around, looked down, and then went inside.

The remaining ones looked at me, "better?" I nodded.
 
2021-05-11 8:04:04 AM  

Rapmaster2000: BeesNuts: TheDirtyNacho: Had something like this here. A subcontractor didn't follow the plans right, misinstalled a water barrier and then only used some screws to attach the balcony to the outer wall instead of the proper load bearing hardware the engineer designed. Water got in, it rotted and one day balcony collapsed. Lots of lawsuits about how it should've been caught long before completion

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 292x173]

God damned As Built.

Wasn't that what caused the collapse of those walkways in a Kansas City hotel or whatever in the early 80s?


They didn't have really long bolts, so instead they were bolted together every floor or so
 
2021-05-11 8:04:39 AM  

Rapmaster2000: BeesNuts: TheDirtyNacho: Had something like this here. A subcontractor didn't follow the plans right, misinstalled a water barrier and then only used some screws to attach the balcony to the outer wall instead of the proper load bearing hardware the engineer designed. Water got in, it rotted and one day balcony collapsed. Lots of lawsuits about how it should've been caught long before completion

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 292x173]

God damned As Built.

Wasn't that what caused the collapse of those walkways in a Kansas City hotel or whatever in the early 80s?


Yes, yes it was.
 
2021-05-11 8:05:52 AM  

brainlordmesomorph: I was at a party once, and stepped out on to the balcony to get way from the crowd, and at first one or two people follow out there, then before I notice, half the party has moved on to the balcony.

I went inside and then told them through the open door, "I really think there are too many people on that balcony."

A couple of the fatter ones looked around, looked down, and then went inside.

The remaining ones looked at me, "better?" I nodded.


That's not bad.

Where is your cat
 
2021-05-11 8:06:18 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: dryknife: Shoulda been drinking Lite beers.

[Fark user image 400x600]


That "Re-order Line" on the glass is sweet
 
2021-05-11 8:06:19 AM  

Rapmaster2000: BeesNuts: TheDirtyNacho: Had something like this here. A subcontractor didn't follow the plans right, misinstalled a water barrier and then only used some screws to attach the balcony to the outer wall instead of the proper load bearing hardware the engineer designed. Water got in, it rotted and one day balcony collapsed. Lots of lawsuits about how it should've been caught long before completion

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 292x173]

God damned As Built.

Wasn't that what caused the collapse of those walkways in a Kansas City hotel or whatever in the early 80s?


The KC Hyatt walkway didn't involve water, just improper load bearing.

engineeringclicks.comView Full Size
 
2021-05-11 8:07:28 AM  
We TOLD you to socially-distance, but did you listen?
 
2021-05-11 8:07:44 AM  

Monkeyfark Ridiculous: dryknife: Shoulda been drinking Lite beers.

[Fark user image 400x600]


4.1% craft beer??

Holy shiat, my bar tab would probably be up to $40 before I started catching a buzz.
 
2021-05-11 8:08:18 AM  

ZMugg: Rapmaster2000: BeesNuts: TheDirtyNacho: Had something like this here. A subcontractor didn't follow the plans right, misinstalled a water barrier and then only used some screws to attach the balcony to the outer wall instead of the proper load bearing hardware the engineer designed. Water got in, it rotted and one day balcony collapsed. Lots of lawsuits about how it should've been caught long before completion

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 292x173]

God damned As Built.

Wasn't that what caused the collapse of those walkways in a Kansas City hotel or whatever in the early 80s?

Yes, yes it was.


Because there is no PHD behind my name, I'm not as important.

;My Grandma used to be the security guard at Kemper Arena.

She finished her last round as the roof fell in.
 
2021-05-11 8:08:50 AM  

UNC_Samurai: Rapmaster2000: BeesNuts: TheDirtyNacho: Had something like this here. A subcontractor didn't follow the plans right, misinstalled a water barrier and then only used some screws to attach the balcony to the outer wall instead of the proper load bearing hardware the engineer designed. Water got in, it rotted and one day balcony collapsed. Lots of lawsuits about how it should've been caught long before completion

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 292x173]

God damned As Built.

Wasn't that what caused the collapse of those walkways in a Kansas City hotel or whatever in the early 80s?

The KC Hyatt walkway didn't involve water, just improper load bearing.

[engineeringclicks.com image 850x542]


That's it
 
2021-05-11 8:09:36 AM  
Dancing rhythmically makes it worse
Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-05-11 8:18:16 AM  

Private_Citizen: Dancing rhythmically makes it worse
[Fark user image image 288x192]


Yeah....i recall being at a party in a fraternity house in college. I went to the basement, and saw how much the floor above me was moving up and down from the people dancing and decided to hang out elsewhere.
 
2021-05-11 8:24:24 AM  

Private_Citizen: Dancing rhythmically makes it worse
[Fark user image image 288x192]


Holy fark, where is that from?
 
2021-05-11 8:34:15 AM  

RogueWallEnthusiast: Private_Citizen: Dancing rhythmically makes it worse
[Fark user image image 288x192]

Holy fark, where is that from?


Israel. It was a wedding party, and 30 people were killed.
Wikipedia article
 
2021-05-11 8:40:19 AM  
12cpeople does not sound like an overload fir a balcony of that size.
 
2021-05-11 8:52:14 AM  

libranoelrose: Rapmaster2000: BeesNuts: TheDirtyNacho: Had something like this here. A subcontractor didn't follow the plans right, misinstalled a water barrier and then only used some screws to attach the balcony to the outer wall instead of the proper load bearing hardware the engineer designed. Water got in, it rotted and one day balcony collapsed. Lots of lawsuits about how it should've been caught long before completion

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 292x173]

God damned As Built.

Wasn't that what caused the collapse of those walkways in a Kansas City hotel or whatever in the early 80s?

They didn't have really long bolts, so instead they were bolted together every floor or so


I mean... I'll readily blame that fustercluck on the original architect who thought that bolts with fully FOUR FEET OF CONTINUOUS THREADING was a reasonable inclusion in his or her design.

On the AM/FM spectrum of Engineering and Design, that's well into "Farking Magic" territory.

That said, when the contractors decided that the architect and engineers were dumb as hell, they should have sent their revised designs back on something a little more official than what amounted to a torn napkin.

But contractors gonna contract, so ... don't send them bullshiat designs.

And this concludes today's lesson: "I'm frankly more surprised that any American buildings stay standing than I am when one falls down."
 
2021-05-11 8:57:42 AM  
Entitled mask-less party goers in Malibu get dropped off a 15 foot balcony.


Fark user imageView Full Size
 
2021-05-11 9:08:09 AM  
Dude in the video said there were only 10 people on the balcony.
 
2021-05-11 9:10:18 AM  

BeesNuts: I mean... I'll readily blame that fustercluck on the original architect who thought that bolts with fully FOUR FEET OF CONTINUOUS THREADING was a reasonable inclusion in his or her design.


Dude, threaded rod/all thread is available in 3', 6', 10' and 12' lengths, from 1/4" to 2" diameters, IN STOCK at any decent metal supply store, and longer lengths are easily custom ordered. Indeed, the as built balcony include a custom all-thread rod since it's longer than 12' from the 2nd to 4th floor balcony.

The reason the contractor made the change is that he didn't want to be arsed with either keeping 18' of thread clean or chasing a die down it to clean it up then spinning a bolt halfway up. So, he changed the designed so he only had to spin bolts onto the ends and oops, killed a bunch of people. They *might* have gotten away with it had they put a solid backer plate between the nuts and the box section, but they didn't.

I'll give credit to the architect. He "reviewed" the change and when it failed and he lost his license, he made it his life goal to tell his story to as many architects and engineers as he could so maybe they would pay attention and stop what he didn't stop.
 
2021-05-11 9:11:07 AM  

FloriduhGuy: Dude in the video said there were only 10 people on the balcony.


I think a key element many beach home owners miss is when you put a house inches from a frothing ocean of metal eating fluid, regular inspections and repairs are necessary to prevent catastrophic failure.

I don't care how well it's built, it won't stay that way on it's own.
 
2021-05-11 9:17:21 AM  

Rapmaster2000: BeesNuts: TheDirtyNacho: Had something like this here. A subcontractor didn't follow the plans right, misinstalled a water barrier and then only used some screws to attach the balcony to the outer wall instead of the proper load bearing hardware the engineer designed. Water got in, it rotted and one day balcony collapsed. Lots of lawsuits about how it should've been caught long before completion

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 292x173]

God damned As Built.

Wasn't that what caused the collapse of those walkways in a Kansas City hotel or whatever in the early 80s?


Conga line, actually

Military has a "break cadence" rule about crossing bridges to avoid such happenstances as seen in K.C.
 
2021-05-11 9:22:30 AM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: BeesNuts: I mean... I'll readily blame that fustercluck on the original architect who thought that bolts with fully FOUR FEET OF CONTINUOUS THREADING was a reasonable inclusion in his or her design.

Dude, threaded rod/all thread is available in 3', 6', 10' and 12' lengths, from 1/4" to 2" diameters, IN STOCK at any decent metal supply store, and longer lengths are easily custom ordered. Indeed, the as built balcony include a custom all-thread rod since it's longer than 12' from the 2nd to 4th floor balcony.

The reason the contractor made the change is that he didn't want to be arsed with either keeping 18' of thread clean or chasing a die down it to clean it up then spinning a bolt halfway up. So, he changed the designed so he only had to spin bolts onto the ends and oops, killed a bunch of people. They *might* have gotten away with it had they put a solid backer plate between the nuts and the box section, but they didn't.

I'll give credit to the architect. He "reviewed" the change and when it failed and he lost his license, he made it his life goal to tell his story to as many architects and engineers as he could so maybe they would pay attention and stop what he didn't stop.


This is all correct.  I realized as soon as I clicked Add Comment that 4 feet was ridiculous.  It was considerably more than that.  And while it's not impossible to make or use such a threaded rod, it's *wildly* inconvenient and finicky.  The contractor was punching well above their weight class by making such a change in the first place.

And you're absolutely right about the architect.  I didn't realize how integral he was in getting this story told in basically every intro engineering course all over the world.  Thanks for that detail.

Finally, re: the backer plate.  I'd also forgotten that bit.  Wasn't the original design to have the two C-beams oriented so the seam was oriented horizontally instead of vertically?  I vaguely remember that being part of the story as well.  Can't remember why that changed, though.  Assuming I'm right at all.
 
2021-05-11 9:28:25 AM  

BeesNuts: I mean... I'll readily blame that fustercluck on the original architect who thought that bolts with fully  FOUR FEET OF CONTINUOUS THREADING was a reasonable inclusion in his or her design.

On the AM/FM spectrum of Engineering and Design, that's well into "Farking Magic" territory.


Four feet of all-thread doesn't sound that bad...

No wait, the rods were 1.5" in diameter and would've needed to be threaded their entire 2+ story (approximately 24 foot) length.   Fully TWENTY FOUR FEET OF CONTINUOUS THREADING.
 
2021-05-11 9:30:54 AM  

ChicagoKev: BeesNuts: I mean... I'll readily blame that fustercluck on the original architect who thought that bolts with fully  FOUR FEET OF CONTINUOUS THREADING was a reasonable inclusion in his or her design.

On the AM/FM spectrum of Engineering and Design, that's well into "Farking Magic" territory.

Four feet of all-thread doesn't sound that bad...

No wait, the rods were 1.5" in diameter and would've needed to be threaded their entire 2+ story (approximately 24 foot) length.   Fully TWENTY FOUR FEET OF CONTINUOUS THREADING.


Yeah, upon posting that and taking a sip of coffee, I imagined the side-view drawings, remembered how tall the double decker walkway actually was and facepalmed pretty hard.
 
2021-05-11 9:35:04 AM  
Never let contractors make material substitutions or design changes without serious review. They'll see a 6" post and substitute two 3" posts. They'll substitute 14 gauge wiring for 12 gauge wiring because they already have several reels on the truck. They'll just do whatever they did on the last job without looking at your drawings at all.

/also, decks can't hold your entire party even if they're built right
 
2021-05-11 9:36:56 AM  
No 'Californians' reference?
Fark, I am disappoint.
 
2021-05-11 9:48:29 AM  
When I built my deck, I went at least one size up from code, for everything from the footings to the railings. It cost an extra $1K, but I sleep a lot better at night. The city inspector commented on it, and asked why someone in Minnesota would use hurricane ties for joist to beam connections, and hurricane ties from joists, through the ledger, and to the house joists. I said I didn't want to end up on the evening news.
 
2021-05-11 10:06:59 AM  

BeesNuts: Finally, re: the backer plate.  I'd also forgotten that bit.  Wasn't the original design to have the two C-beams oriented so the seam was oriented horizontally instead of vertically?  I vaguely remember that being part of the story as well.  Can't remember why that changed, though.  Assuming I'm right at all.


I don't recall rotating the box section to seam-up/seam-down as being a change, but it could have been. That's just how most box section is made. Heck, just a wider and stronger washer might have been enough, but a plate and a couple of taps with a MIG gun and those balconies are there today. Heck, might not have even needed the weld. You just need to not have the point load of both balconies on a welded seam.
 
2021-05-11 10:23:12 AM  
Gravity check. Still works.
 
2021-05-11 10:46:05 AM  
An amazing thing i once saw. Way back when in my early 20s. My girlfriends dad was an engineer of some kind. I "helped" him build a slightly deck in his back yard.
He drew the whole thing blue prints style, then proceeded to buy all the wood and parts he would need.
He then cut all the pieces of wood.
And then we assembled it like a kit after he did about three after work days of the cutting.

And everything fit perfectly, nothign had to be re-cut, and we had only a small handful of excess screws left over as he had figured out exactly what would be needed and bought it all in advance in one go.

I'd also bet in the entire time i heard him say maybe 15 words. Which was about half of all the words i ever heard him say over the year we dated.
 
2021-05-11 10:51:24 AM  

PvtStash: An amazing thing i once saw. Way back when in my early 20s. My girlfriends dad was an engineer of some kind. I "helped" him build a slightly deck in his back yard.
He drew the whole thing blue prints style, then proceeded to buy all the wood and parts he would need.
He then cut all the pieces of wood.
And then we assembled it like a kit after he did about three after work days of the cutting.

And everything fit perfectly, nothign had to be re-cut, and we had only a small handful of excess screws left over as he had figured out exactly what would be needed and bought it all in advance in one go.

I'd also bet in the entire time i heard him say maybe 15 words. Which was about half of all the words i ever heard him say over the year we dated.


That little story had a surprise ending!
 
2021-05-11 11:02:42 AM  

ar393: Private_Citizen: Dancing rhythmically makes it worse
[Fark user image image 288x192]

Yeah....i recall being at a party in a fraternity house in college. I went to the basement, and saw how much the floor above me was moving up and down from the people dancing and decided to hang out elsewhere.


Many years ago, I was at the IA Summit's game night, and the room as a bit crowded, so some of us moved into the room across the hall.  After a bit, I noticed that the lights were flickering slightly.  There was a wedding upstairs, and you could see the ceiling above deflecting significantly as they are dancing.  Needless to say, we decided to move our game of Forbidden Island somewhere else.

Somewhere I should have some video that we shot of it -- we even put a glass of water on a table in the room so you could see how much it was shaking.  They also had some sort of electronic display in the hallway so they could label the rooms, and it was flickering on and off, like the power connection wasn't solid.  (so a possible fire risk, too)
 
2021-05-11 11:06:58 AM  

FloriduhGuy: Dude in the video said there were only 10 people on the balcony.


That guy is full of utter bs.

I counted and there were 18/19 people on that balcony just before it collapsed.

Video evidence is better than eye witness accounts..
 
2021-05-11 11:18:33 AM  
Subby must live in flyover country.... doesn't know PBR is actually illegal in Malibu. It was probably a domestic Sauv Blanc that caused the issue
 
2021-05-11 11:18:36 AM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: BeesNuts: I mean... I'll readily blame that fustercluck on the original architect who thought that bolts with fully FOUR FEET OF CONTINUOUS THREADING was a reasonable inclusion in his or her design.

Dude, threaded rod/all thread is available in 3', 6', 10' and 12' lengths, from 1/4" to 2" diameters, IN STOCK at any decent metal supply store, and longer lengths are easily custom ordered. Indeed, the as built balcony include a custom all-thread rod since it's longer than 12' from the 2nd to 4th floor balcony.

The reason the contractor made the change is that he didn't want to be arsed with either keeping 18' of thread clean or chasing a die down it to clean it up then spinning a bolt halfway up. So, he changed the designed so he only had to spin bolts onto the ends and oops, killed a bunch of people. They *might* have gotten away with it had they put a solid backer plate between the nuts and the box section, but they didn't.

I'll give credit to the architect. He "reviewed" the change and when it failed and he lost his license, he made it his life goal to tell his story to as many architects and engineers as he could so maybe they would pay attention and stop what he didn't stop.


A similar thing happened after the Galloping Gertie collapse -- the engineer who had designed it dropped everything he was doing to help them figure out what had gone wrong.  (although in that case, they had warnings that things had gone wrong.)

Both of them were studies in a class on engineering failures that I had about 25 years ago.  The Kansas City incident was one of the arguments for "Design-Build" -- no one should've designed a building that required parts that were going to be such a PITA to acquire and use.  Working more tightly with the builder would've kept them from using that design in the first place and then trying to find a work-around when they were trying to keep to a tight schedule.

As for the trying to thread something 18 feet -- it would've made more sense to clamp something around the rod rather than using a nut.  (and then it wouldn't need to be all-thread, but you'd likely still want something there for it to grip onto)

/not an engineer
//never took the EIT / FE test
 
2021-05-11 11:39:01 AM  

Pert: 12cpeople does not sound like an overload fir a balcony of that size.


But 12 Americans is 6,000 pounds, so...
 
2021-05-11 12:42:40 PM  

PvtStash: "...Which was about half of all the words i ever heard him say over the year we dated."


He was probably just happy with the cheap labour (assuming he paid in beers & a meal or three) & you were the 'Evil Overlord list Number 12 eyes of a child' to make sure he didn't make any obvious errors.

"...we had only a small handful of excess screws left over..."

He'd probably have settled for you not screwing his daughter.
 
2021-05-11 3:33:19 PM  

I hereby demand that I be given a Fark account: BeesNuts: I mean... I'll readily blame that fustercluck on the original architect who thought that bolts with fully FOUR FEET OF CONTINUOUS THREADING was a reasonable inclusion in his or her design.

Dude, threaded rod/all thread is available in 3', 6', 10' and 12' lengths, from 1/4" to 2" diameters, IN STOCK at any decent metal supply store, and longer lengths are easily custom ordered. Indeed, the as built balcony include a custom all-thread rod since it's longer than 12' from the 2nd to 4th floor balcony.

The reason the contractor made the change is that he didn't want to be arsed with either keeping 18' of thread clean or chasing a die down it to clean it up then spinning a bolt halfway up. So, he changed the designed so he only had to spin bolts onto the ends and oops, killed a bunch of people. They *might* have gotten away with it had they put a solid backer plate between the nuts and the box section, but they didn't.

I'll give credit to the architect. He "reviewed" the change and when it failed and he lost his license, he made it his life goal to tell his story to as many architects and engineers as he could so maybe they would pay attention and stop what he didn't stop.


I once worked with an architect who spent the first year or two of his career handling the investigation and legal response to that for the architecture firm. He got a serious case of thousand yard stare when (always briefly) talking about it and it clearly influenced the direction of his entire career. 99.99% of the time, submittal and RFI (request for information) review during construction is all about getting the right color and avoid a change order if something shows up the wrong size. 0.01% of the time some one could die if you miss a tiny detail.

/Eyeballs the 300 pages of submittals and RFIs in my review queue
//Remember I'm the HVAC engineer
///Except for labs and fabs, I don't have many chances to kill people
 
2021-05-11 4:17:02 PM  

PvtStash: An amazing thing i once saw. Way back when in my early 20s. My girlfriends dad was an engineer of some kind. I "helped" him build a slightly deck in his back yard.
He drew the whole thing blue prints style, then proceeded to buy all the wood and parts he would need.
He then cut all the pieces of wood.
And then we assembled it like a kit after he did about three after work days of the cutting.

And everything fit perfectly, nothign had to be re-cut, and we had only a small handful of excess screws left over as he had figured out exactly what would be needed and bought it all in advance in one go.

I'd also bet in the entire time i heard him say maybe 15 words. Which was about half of all the words i ever heard him say over the year we dated.


The best description of Engineering I have ever heard was:
"Engineering is the science of getting things right on the first try."
 
2021-05-11 5:37:16 PM  

IamTomJoad: Rapmaster2000: BeesNuts: TheDirtyNacho: Had something like this here. A subcontractor didn't follow the plans right, misinstalled a water barrier and then only used some screws to attach the balcony to the outer wall instead of the proper load bearing hardware the engineer designed. Water got in, it rotted and one day balcony collapsed. Lots of lawsuits about how it should've been caught long before completion

[encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com image 292x173]

God damned As Built.

Wasn't that what caused the collapse of those walkways in a Kansas City hotel or whatever in the early 80s?

Conga line, actually

Military has a "break cadence" rule about crossing bridges to avoid such happenstances as seen in K.C.


And at least one London bridge has a sign about it:

Fark user imageView Full Size
 
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